Support the channel on Patreon! Get all my videos and podcasts early: www.patreon.com/thepunkrockmba

Not wanting a band to be “mainstream” is such a weird mindset to me. Do we want our favorite bands to continue putting out music and actually make a living or not?

Baby makeing metal is the most accurate way of describing sleep token thirst trap tiktoks

Seeing all this hype around Sleep Token feels a lot like when Spiritbox was really starting to break out in 2021 pre-Eternal Blue. I don't think either are going to be played on pop radio any time soon, but it's so fun when everyone in the community rallies around THE new band

Also a good example, Sempiternal launched Bring Me The Horizon into mainstream. That album was produced by Terry Date, who produced Limp Bizkit, Slipknot, Deftones. Probably every one of those bands were BMTH’s influences in some way. There will always need to be some form of mainstream Metal in order to keep Metal alive. And it doesn’t make them sellouts, or “poser bands”. That’s a mentality that should’ve been left behind decades ago.

Only reason I'm not big on the mainstream take is bc when they're smaller i can still afford to see them play live.

Finn is the living definition of “yeah man I got that, it’s at my dads house though”

13:20 as a high school student you can completely see the way this works. I got into bands like Metallica from my Dad, which I liked but most of their songs aren't my thing, so I go searching and find bands like BMTH and Pierce the Veil. Then MGK comes along and gets a whole bunch of my friends into pop punk, and from there I show them heavier things I like. This is how people go from liking The Cure to Lorna Shore, it's mainstream artists like Machine Gun Kelly whether you like him and his music or not.

Finn...my wife is a total normie, and for the last 10+ years, she always has made me turn my music off because she just never got it. I've been playing Sleep Token lately around her and even she at least doesn't dislike it, which is a big step for us, lol. Even my 15 month old baby dances to it!

If metal and rock music aren't mainstream, I hope those genres can at least be financially viable and sustainable enough for every band out there. In my opinion, the best way to integrate metal and rock in pop culture, is through entertainment, whether that's video games, TV series, movies, commercials, etc. What makes us metal fans unique is our steadfast loyalty to the bands and the sounds we enjoy, but generally and unfortunately, we're also not very willing to engage other genres of music. Not to mention the gatekeeping that occurs within this community, which is an entirely separate problem altogether. I don't know if anyone here has heard of a band called Affiance, but they were/are the band I wanted to see transcend the genre and become a prime example of what metal is in the year 2023. Their Blackout album remains criminally underrated. Go give it some love if you're looking for something fresh. 🤘🏻

It's funny to see them take off like this because I literally saw them as an opening act for a much bigger rock band and I thought "who the heck is sleep token?" And now to see them absolutely blow up is kind of cool

Sleep Token is genuinely a great band and awesome musicians. The music is ambitious and tasty without being flashy. I honestly can’t think of any band successfully pulling off a song like Aqua Regia and Vore in the same album.

It's crazy how fast they skyrocketed. I got into Sleep Token when they had less than 100k monthly listeners and now they're over 2M. And as I don't live on Europe or the US, I can now hope they come and play live in my city. To go to an undergound band concert is an impossible dream for me so I'm really grateful that they're getting recognition.

I appreciate how even if you don't like a band/artist's music, you can still say so many positive things and wish them success. This kind of nuance and positivity is hard to come by these days

Sleep Token is the real deal, band of the year for me so far.

When a man and a woman love each other very much... They listen to Sleep Token

Every metal fan has a gateway band or moment. Nobody under 40 ever just burst in loving Merciful Fate and Immolation. Bruh, you had to have owned a Korn Cd.

interesting how old heads of any genre have this idea about the quality of any genre degrading as the genre population size increases, a genre that has a larger size population size has a large chance to mutate something interesting and just like natural selection the most interesting qualities will be replicated and mutated further, this is perhaps why metal is boring because of the lack of innovation and the promotion of that idea as a positive which is compounded with the discouragement of genre growth. The theory that metal staying underground will help improve the genre is just scientifically wrong, it's so obvious that larger population size = larger chance of a mutation being better. Hey that's how Covid-19 increased it's KDR further down the line. Reading the article about Micahel Amott, I just loved how he said "It is without a doubt, always a challenge to raise the bar each time in both the songwriting and production side of thing" and then said he was satisfied in succeeding in it, but to me growing up from adolescene to adulthood religiously consuming their music between albums 'deceivers' and 'Wages of Sin' they had the same sound for the past 20 years, with the exception that the singer sings cleans now. Should tell you how people like him see music.

I've only ever fallen in love with a band so quickly once before sleep token. The combination of heavy prog metal, mixed with ambience, jazz, or whatever else they want to throw in there. There's so much passion in the music, and it's awesome to see such a niche band pop off like this

Same with EDM right now, the mainstream Boiler Room sets are getting people to look for their local underground scene, seeing huge turnouts lately and I love it

"A rising tide lifts all boats" I really like that saying. Thanks for it

Wanting your favorite band to remain “underground” is just a shorter way of saying you want them to languish in obscurity and poverty because them having that status fits your aesthetic.

It’s funny because Vore (the one song not in the viral 50) is my favorite of the singles. 😂 Love your thoughts about how the big bands run so the smaller ones can walk. Great insight into this.

My brother, who hates metal, loves all of their songs. Even if they’re super long, for some reason, they just appeal to everyone.

I don't understand people being worried about metal bands going mainstream. It could be the biggest thing in music and there will still be 1000 death metal bands with albums that could have came out in 91 to listen to.

I hope they become the next big thing. Selling out stadiums and performing but not having the public eye concerned about their every thought and move isn't something that normally resonates with success. On this podcast it's been discussed about how all of metal news hangs on every word or tweet of high profile individuals, and it's because they're on top of that mountain. Them being the next big thing and remaining anonymous sounds like the proverbial "have your cake and eat it to", vs having to live up the someone else's expectation of what you should be as a music icon. Give me that ANY day of the week.

The facts that this band is bringing THIS conversation on the table. I'm actually not surprised but it's just wow. I'm excited

Music is my LIFE. I’m trying so hard to either find a band to do vocals for or trying to figure out ways to kickstart my solo vocal project off. I want nothing more than Metal to get the recognition that it deserves. Anything that makes the genre bigger and in more people’s ears is an accomplishment. Why does it have to stay underground? I want these artist to be as successful as possible and I hope that I can assist in that any way possible, even if it means just listening and spreading the word.

The funny thing about Amott saying that they don't think about marketing is: they don't have to. They have a management and a major label who do this for them. I remember a couple of years ago being at a metal festival, and there were ads for the new Arch Enemy album everywhere. On large video walls beside the stages between nearly every show, posters left and right, people handing out flyers etc. Plus, there were also tons of online ads for the same album. I mean, yeah, the best way to break a metal band in the first place, in my opinion, is still to play lots and lots of shows, until you get to open for some larger, better-known bands. Still, once you have your major label deal, it just boils down to the same marketing machinery as for the rest of the industry. This has nothing really to do with the underground anymore.

I love everything you said here. I’m thrilled that Sleep Token is seeing success because I want them to continue… I really hoped to see them live. But whenever a band goes viral, ticket prices go up to $700+ This is already happening for Sleep Token shows specifically. I don’t know if I’ll have the chance to go now that tickets cost almost a whole months rent. Reselling and scalping has to be addressed in general. I think this is one reason why fans kind of secretly hope their favorite band doesn’t get too famous.

I love all of Sleep Tokens stuff…but idk if I consider it metal at all really…they have metallic elements and brush up against it but I see this more as a cousin to metal….but that shits perfect and great because maybe Sleep Token will bring some more ppl to the family BBQ and introduce them to their cousin Jinjer…and then maybe Jinjer introduces them to their cousins whole family which happens to be Gothenburg Melodic Death Metal

Despite the sudden uptick in fame, they seem to stay genuine and authentic to their original sound. We'll see where they go from here!

Trying to find a larger point beyond your own opinion is why your videos are worth watching. As a ST fan, I’m stoked for their rising popularity. “Vore” has black metal screams in it, it would make me happy if that kind of sound got a wider appeal, and that song is on repeat for me

I always appreciate your takes Finn! Personally I really do love Sleep Token, I think they’re doing some of the most interesting things in music right now and Vessel is an incredible vocalist. And despite your distaste for their catalog I love that you’re still happy for them and celebrating their success! 🖤

Hozier with a prog by numbers band is all I hear.

I think "Metal shouldn't be mainstream" is a fair take. There are aspects of "Metal" music that are deliberately offensive to societal norms. The sounds, the imagery, and the lyrics are deliberately designed to be harsh, complex, or grotesque, specifically to cater to sensibilities outside the norm. In that sense, good metal can never really be "Main Stream". Even bands like Slipknot or Marilyn Manson who had significant commercial success still never broke into what could really be considered the "Main Stream". If your normy friends and relatives all like it, it is not offensive enough to really be metal, since the offensive nature of the music is part of the soul of the genre.

Points for mentioning Circa Survive. I'm going to listen to them all day now.

A bunch of young kids just getting into Sleep Token right now will be listening to Sanguissugabog in a year or two. Always good for the scene when a heavier act starts cracking into the mainstream

Well, I live in Honduras, watch your channel and love Sleep Token so yes, it's already big out there. Not many people listen to rock here but the ones who do, know. The whole entire world listens to American and British music, no matter if they speak English or not. Lots of these bands have huge fanbases in countries they've never visited and never will.

I think the entire reason they’re doing so well is because as many have said before, they’re just FUCKING GOOD. Obviously nothing is for everyone but they’re about as close as you can get to that within the confines of being at their core “a metal band”. But their focus isn’t on genre, popularity, or anyone’s expectations. It’s on making each song as good as it can be and sincere. Which is probably their biggest benefit. It’s too few and far between we get such sincerity in the media we consume. Nothing they do is half assed and they don’t put borders on what they can be or do. They have one goal and they’re killing it. Also, people saying they remind them of ghost only says that they haven’t listened to them AT ALL LOL. They sound nothing alike.

Bring Me The Horizon was my pipeline to metal and through the Epitaph connection I into The Ghost Inside and Parkway Drive who literally had me hooked on 90s Skatepunk cause Pennywise and Bad Religion songs were featured in a Parkway documentary

If underground music is indeed an alternative art form then that necessitates a strong and popular mainstream presence for that underground music to play alternative to. If there is no strong mainstream presence, then what actually is the underground being an alternative for? We literally don't even get death metal or black metal if it wasn't for the commercialization of hair metal and then thrash metal. Most of the cult classic bands that started in the underground would never have existed in the first place if there wasn't a popular mainstream sound that they wanted to create an alternative in response to. The cure is created of the poison.

Keep in mind too that when a band goes mainstream don't expect to see them play live at a small intimate venue but at a huge stadium and ticket prices would be well above $100.

Some of Sleep Token is pretty neat. Some of Sleep Token sounds like Imagine Dragons with djentdowns.

I completely agree with this. That said the MGK pipe line leads to Cattle Decapitation. Could you please get a video on Cattle decap especially the new album ?? And it’s charting success?

I think it’s completely true what you’re saying about the rising tide lifting all sails. The stuff lorna has been doing on their own and for their scene reminds me of what the older deathcore bands could’ve done if they weren’t so caught up on appeasing the death metal snobs

I'm successfully ignoring all Spotify charts because I'm so 'edgy' but my bf send their track to me and... I didn't like it. The music is alright but man those vocals, it's like they come from some hipstery pop singer doing all those twists and turns wistfully with his voice. Totally not my thing. THAT SAID, I gotta admit that since those wistful singers are rather popular, from what I can say anyway, it's only logical that that style will crossover to heavier music. So, I guess they're so popular because they're just so palatable, with familiar vocals and just heavy enough music (seven minute tracks working well as a background music? enough to make those bebes?? :DD). Which makes me agree with Finn, there's some entryway-band potential in here, and we need that.

They are the now big thing and I know they will leave there mark in metal history like Deftones and other bands like Tool they are worthy and unbelievably talented, perfectionist. You can hear it in the music and how clean and intricate the sound of each instrument contributes and fuses together into one sound. It's a true work of art. They are special like Lincoln Park. They are deserving of the recognition. I am SOOOO EXCITED ABOUT THIS BAND. I can't wait to see them live. And he displays the emotion and conviction that makes you feel his music. His voice is so unique and can shake your core in a good way that's why it's "baby making metal" and it relates to both women and men soooo....yeah. I haven't been this star struck in a long time lol I cannot say enough about this band and I am not usually an outspoken person about anything but them I feel they are just absolutely unforgettable.

Metal/Rock should not strive to be underground. If it's music from "the heart and soul" then we should push our peers to be the best they can be and congratulate when credit is due. Popularity doesn't mean success but if popularity means more people picking up instruments for themselves -- that's a WIN! Great analogy of the rising tide. I never heard that one

The band is incredible and this album is shaping up to be flawless . They hit a grove that will catapult them to stardom

My foray was the black album. I love archspire, infant annihilator, cattle decap, etc. these days because of that. I wont skip on backstreet boys, ariana grande, sleep token, george strait, kendrick lamar, or j. Cole either tho. We all have a tip in somewhere, appreciate the inspiration even if it isnt yours.

Important words Finn. I guess some dislike mainstreamers for discrediting their genre, but didn’t realise those very bands can be the reason new underground or ‘authentic’ metal gets created. A bit of a paradox there, but I’m very glad u pointed out this important relationship. And to keep things topical, I’ve just taken my bedtime sleeping pills so Night night!

Im really happy to see them go from 200k to 2 mil Spotify listeners in one month but its a bummer they are tik tok famous now. I'm pretty sure ppl use songs because theyre trendy and everyone else is using them, not because they like the songs

I first seen sleep token actually last October ago they opened for In This Moment and it’s awesome to see them blowing up like this

Fence sitter here 🤺 I don't want metal bands to reach out then try to appeal to the masses just to get that mainstream success. While in turn forgetting where they came from and what they started. However like Finn said we don't need all bands to go mainstream just enough to bring in more eyes & fans. They will then self diversify and bring up other underground bands or non-mainstream bands, without making them necessarily sellouts at all while they get more 💰! Perfect 2 examples that are becoming more mainstream without selling out is, Falling in Reverse & Bring Me the Horizon. We just need about 5 massive bands that are in the scene but different from each other that catapult the scene! If BMTH & FIR are 2 Sleep Token makes 3 😁

Arch Enemy may play to 80,000 people at Waken, but they still play small to medium clubs in America. Everyone at Waken play’s in front of 30,000 to 80,000 people… People are there for the festival itself mainly. And while archenemy may be in the top tier of modern metal acts, ask any average person on the street who they are and 90% won’t know, so yes, they are still “underground“

There are obviously pros and cons but I typically dislike when bands I enjoy have gotten pushed more into the mainstream… for multiple reasons. 1. their ticket prices and merch prices typically go up with success (due to new demand) 2. shows often become less intimate and personal (especially with bigger venues and crowds) 3. me being a listener gives me a certain stereotype now that a band has become mainstream, even if I had been listening before the stereotype existed (I mean this in the least gatekeepy way possible) 4. Sometimes band member’s personality/dynamic changes completely with success. bands fight over this new income, recording, comfort w/ popularity, and the general pretentiousness that so often comes with it all. So, while I do want every band that I love to be successful, it just makes things really different and at times difficult as a fan.

I remember discussing Sleep Token with you back in 2020 on Instagram. I’m glad we are here today. 😌😌

Agreed. Idk if they'll ever be 'deftones' big, but they definitely bring something fresh. My gf was wondering if maybe their whole "anonymous" wearing masks thing is just a gimmick too, but tbh, they seem to be such legitimately talented musicians that I almost feel like the whole thing is more to serve putting the art front and center vs letting it be about individuals or egos. Will they ever see some massive mainstream transcendence with their music, idk... but damn it's nice to see something original.

ever since issues’ singer was kicked out of that band (rightfully so), i’ve been missing a band like them in my life. sleep token, especially with their newer songs, hit that pop/r&b + metal niche that i’ve been craving. their songs, especially granite, have been stuck in my head for weeks.

Absolutely loving the new Sleep Token songs!

I agree with fins point massively, I got Into heavy/alt music through xxxtentacion and lil peep, peep sampling three days grace, X’s heavier stuff into scarlxrd into Korn, deftones, converge etc. etc. etc. and then into more underground artists

How was Finn able to meet them?

The special hug doesn’t always come from two people who actually love each other js

I would love to see my favorite bands flourish financially and make it mainstream it's deserved even if they change 💯

12:16 funny enough, this is exactly how I discovered across the white water tower. They opened for Attack Attack! last year and of the 3 that opened for AA! they became my favorite.

Funn, with regards to supporting metal going mainstream because it's going to be good for bands and the genre itself, I hate it, but you're totally right. I can't for the life of my stand MGK, and beyond hating his music and attitude, it's the fact that a lot of "normies" are going to look at him as the poster boy of contemporary "rock", and it drives me nuts... but you're completely right that there will be fans of his that will go onto listening to and supporting legit bands that actually are worth a damn. I got into metal in 1990 by first Motley Crue and then the Black album, so I know how this goes (though I still love the Black album and Crue).

I like them a lot. They kinda fit the spot Tool used to fill for me before they got old

this band is endlessly fascinating to me. it takes talent to make music thats somehow completely milquetoast and bland, but also grating and unlikeable. a feat only Imagine Dragons have done successfully.

I think metal bands going viral for the right reasons like Sleep Token and Spiritbox is awesome. I want to see Sleep Token do amphitheater headlining tours in 4-5 years

This exact conversation is currently happening (again) in electronic music, specifically within dubstep. I'm a small dj/producer and with skrillex's recent releases I have seen an increased amount of traffic to my plays/likes on soundcloud.

If you liked this one then you should check out "Dark Signs" off of Sundowning. Great blend of R&B/D&B/metal.

What the worlds been needing: SEXY METAL. YES

I enjoyed listen to this, and I agree with you Finn on your opinion

Taking back Sunday helped circa survive… survive. Anyway, summoning, great song. The heaviness makes that last part work. One of their songs I listened to though was just a pop song, plain and simple. They’ll be one of those bands you either love, hate, or listen to a song or two from.

Great point about being thankful for all the bands we don’t like because it creates opportunities for the ones we like

They were indie before they showed up at the metal party, and they'll probably move onto some other R'n'B influenced lunacy. I'll welcome them while they are here, and if their next direction is cool, I'll check that out too.

Everyone's different but in the end we are all metal. Everyone starts in different places. One of my friends used to be a black veil brides fan and now they listen to grindcore and black metal. I started with AC\DC and now I listen to stuff like archspire and anaal nathrakh. Mainstream is a gateway to the underground. Both are important to the metal ecosystem

These are great arguments!

I would say. The one problem is if a band bends their art to achieve pop culture status. Pop culture doesn't care about substance. They care about trends and it will leave you in the dust without a thought once the trends change. And in the meanwhile you alienated your core fan base because you sacrificed your initial appeal. Then you become a fair band.

Your argument is valid in so many others things also. Every modern golfer owes Tiger Woods a bit of his paycheck. His presence and success exploded the purse winnings for every other golfer. Dale Earnhardt and Jeff Gordon helped bring the mainstream into NASCAR and all the other racers benefited financially. It's inevitable that the winners in whatever area they're in will get some insider backlash, but like Finn mentions a lot, it's not all bad if what you like gets popular. It can also mean that the people you like are more likely to be better compensated too.

I don’t see this band riding on this wave but only for a few more months.

I’m totally ok with Sleep Token being a gateway band for me to get into metal. I just discovered them about 2 weeks ago. They’re kind of like a tangent on my way to finally start exploring metal, which I have been wanting to do for YEARS. It’s funny that a poppy, lyrical, multi-genre band is distracted me on my way there.

Back in the day, the Rancid to AFI pipeline was real because of proximity of the scenes in the Bay Area. Rancid got huge, people found out, then AFI got the benefit of that.

Finn makes a really good point. One of the first rock bands I heard was Smash Mouth and now Knocked Loose is one of my favorite bands. There is a Smash Mouth to Knocked Loose pipe line and no one’s talking about it.

And I just found them this year so I have no idea who they are but I instantly knew they were amazing

I'm cool with Sleep Token doing their thing, but it's not for me. Most of their songs are very boring to me; the formula gets old quickly. I also can't stand how over sung the song are. Incredible vocalist, but he sounds like a male Christina Aguilera with the incessant vocal runs. It's just not to my taste - I won't deny that they're a talented group of guys. More power to them, and I hope they keep making the music their fans enjoy.

There's a really interesting idea in anthropology that suggests humans sang before we talked and language evolved out of music. And that is believed itself to have encouraged social bonding along the same lines as grooming practices in other primates. Human social groups are far larger than other primates, grooming is impractical for bonding. Speaking reaches more people at once but requires turns. Singing or creating sound to a rhythm can be a bigger group activity in that sense. Modern studies have shown that classes which engage in group bonding exercises all form similar levels of social cohesion after a time, but classes organized around music develop social cohesion *faster* than other methods. Music *literally* brings people together. We evolved for music to bring us together, and music has itself evolved from that. Sure not *everything* is going to be mainstream or popular and underground stuff is just as important in that context. But wanting certain types of music to stay out of the mainstream doesn't take away its soul, it gives it more soul to show. And it gives people access to the soul of stuff that won't necessarily become mainstream. People who want to gatekeep music of any kind for any reason are the reason music loses its soul honestly.

Just wanted to say I love the reaction face in the thumbnail. Always click a video when you use that face.

Crosses and Deftones induced many special hugs between my wife and I.

My special hug music had always been Portishead.

I think if the center of your music world is not Pop music or the biggest Rock and Hip-Hop artists the idea that bands necessarily have to reach mainstream levels of popularity in order to make a living doesn't ring as true. There are tons of artists in the worlds of Jazz and Americana for example that manage to make a living without mainstream attention. Those genres still continue on without the same kind of mainstream artists being the ones to bring more people. It's also not necessarily true that mainstream artists take home that much more money. The VH1 Behind The Music series was full of stories of artists, some as big as Tom Petty and TLC who woke up one day and found out they were actually bankrupt. I want the artists I love to be able to make steady, middle class incomes, prosper financially even but I don't like to see them get mainstream attention. Mainstream attention is toxic and often takes a heavy toll on their mental health, notably often leading to substance abuse issues and other unhealthy lifestyle choices. Both within and outside of Rock and Metal music there plenty of artists who reach a level where they can live a stable, comfortable lifestyle without quite getting attention from the mainstream.

We all knew this video was coming

I think their marketing and PR team crushed it this time around, last album was better as far as music and video production imo but still stoked af for them 🤙

Finn: "oh they're becoming successful, now I respect them because I'm obsessed with marketing and a bands status within their respective scenes"

Not a fan of Sleep Token at all but hey good for them for making it and getting new people into heavy music. Like you said, a high tide raises all ships.

It's so weird to me, because Arch Enemy was a big gateway for me to explore more extreme genres of metal... and yet, here we are with Michael Amott dishing out such a terrible take. But then, it's easy for him to say this and not think about the reality of being underground, the major challenges and fatiguing elements that come with making that work. He's already had his success. They were super popular in the early-mid 2000's. Or at least, they seemed to come up as much as Bloodbath or even some of the most mainstream metalcore acts, like As I Lay Dying, Trivium, or Killswitch Engage. I mean... that's the next layer lol. They literally played alongside some of the biggest names in metal at the time. I still think their classic albums are great, such a moment in time. I can hear a couple of those songs and so many other bands from that era start coming back to me. But it's not like they had the deepest cuts in terms of technicality or songwriting. They made extreme metal sound more accessible and digestible. Everything was very neatly arranged and distilled, with nothin but solid, catchy riffs that an intermediate could quickly start picking up on guitar, as I did at ~age 15 or 16. It was a sound well-crafted to draw wider audiences, and it did. They kind of exist in that buffer zone between fully mainstream rock and metal-infused stuff, and levels of extremeness that become legitimately challenging to normie ears. That's what underground music generally amounts to, right? It's the stuff the normies don't mess with, that's part of what keeps it underground. They themselves couldn't have been as big as they were without there being big scenes build around big touring cycles and events. Did he forget how things were then? Or were they really THAT different from what we saw back then? My point is, he's not even really one to speak on being underground imo. Not so much breaking new ground as taking older soil to new places, you know? What they've done with Arch Enemy over the lineups is a respectable accomplishment. The comment just strikes me as tone-deaf coming from him in particular, given his trajectory in the metal world. He shared a stage with Herman Li at the absolute height of Dragonforce breaking through, when they were featured in Guitar Hero 3, and their songs played in Hot Topics across the US. I think there's a slightly overstated fear of normies getting a hold of underground stuff, for what it is worth. If the artist doesn't want the success, they aren't required to take it. When they do, they do so willingly. I don't think anybody wants to tread the line of "I am for artists grinding in the dirt for years, not feeding their families through their creative expression." There's this weird conflict in underground spaces, there. It's one thing if an artist would rather not have a living in music, and just happens to make music that is popular in the underground. But a big commonality I see in all sorts of 'underground' places is the projection of a higher appreciation for art. Sometimes I wonder if it's as much about appreciating the people creating it as it is possessing them. Cause like... artists gotta live, too. I think sometimes people forget that artists and groups are their own people with their own needs and drives. As Terrence McKenna said "Culture is not your friend." Not to mention, I don't think it's actually bad at all when new things enter the realm of wider sensibilities, I kind of see it as a vital part of this bigger cycle that ideas transform across... sort of this big conversation that artists and listeners are always having. When people expand their tastes, it expands their enrichment. And with that, the art produced tends to expand in step. The ultimate outcome is that a wider range of things can be made and have audiences to sustain it. Sometimes ideas and whole ways of doing things just age out. Another way to look at it is... one thing going up into the mainstream, frees up a slot for something more novel. And what kind of underground music fan isn't looking for the music they aren't hearing yet? To me, it's supposed to be about supporting up and coming artists with forward-looking ideas. Wishing to confine them to smaller spheres is antithetical to that. A god with no worshipers can hardly be called a god at all. And similarly, for good art to continue existing for people to appreciate, it must always be supported at whatever capacity is possible, branching out to new paths in doing so, even!

Look if the band sells out to be famous that’s wack. If they just make incredible music that resonates with the human plight and emotion. It deserves its shine if it blows up that’s great. You want underground music find it. Do not pigeon hold something from taking flight. I’m not a metal head I love all music, my favorite bands are Tool, Yes and Zeppelin. I’m just getting into death metal because it’s fucking rad af. I’m a hip hop artist and I’m godly in my genre I never blew up and I’m fine with that. But finding Sleep Token was like hearing The Mars Volta the first time. I was like wtf fuck is this? And it’s so good that I pre ordered the lp and have been putting people on to it. Why? It’s amazing and everyone should get a chance to hear it.

I like sleep token so this is good

I thought they were completely crap at first and on some weak type shit but I gave their stuff a listen to and it's quite alright... I mean I really do like some of their songs.