A bit of push back: The issue with IGOUGO isn't just about players waiting between turns. It's about how much the first player can change the game state before the second player gets a chance to react. This becomes a bigger problem if there are a lot of units per side, or if the turns represent relatively long-ish units of time. It also allows a higher degree of coordination between units, which may not always be desirable.

The Bolt Action/Beyond the Gates of Antares dice-pull system brought be back to wargaming. After playing nothing but GW IGOUGO and getting brutally tabled over and over again to the point of quitting wargaming, the Warlord Games' dice-pull mechanic was so refreshing. I think the dice-pull combined with some kind of possible reactions is my favorite way to play. PAX

For me, and I’ll say it again for this video, it’s all about Chit/Token/dice draw. - Blind turn based keeps players engaged. The flow of the game is in a state of flux and you need to be constantly engaged even if it isn’t your active turn. - Bring alive the chaos of battle. It can be difficult to lead in battle for various reasons. Blind pull for turns emulates that very well. - Blind pull is great for solo play where you play each side to the best of your ability. It is far more interesting as it adds a layer of tension and decision making when it is just yourself. - For the same reason as solo play. Tension of who will go next based on the pull. Weighing the pros and cons of pushing all in or holding back for defense increases with the tension of battle flow. So many good reasons for chit pull and very few not to play this style of determining turns. My friends and I will implement it whenever possible. For solo play… it’s a must for me. I’ll always switch to chit draw turns. Far more fun solo.

I don't think the argument is whether people LIKE "I go, you go," but rather there are MUCH BETTER OPTIONS

I borrow the boltaction dice pull for my onepagerules games, but I also pull all the dice at the start of the round one by one, so that the turn order is still being randomized, but is then visible and can be planned around.

Playing the Civil War rules Regimental Fire and Fury and the Napoleonic rules General D’Armee 2 makes the whole side activation more balanced. In both rules there are opportunities for defensive fire and counter charges by the inactive player. Each game turn in those systems also has an initiative roll to see who will be active for the first player turn, so its not fixed at the start of the game. The Baroque rules for Renaissance have a similar system and more opportunities for reaction moves. These small features remedy a lot of the issues with whole side activation

Written orders are superior to both. Sticking to this.

Totally agree, Black Powder is IGOUGO but the variable activation and interactive shooting and melee system means players are all involved throughout.

Hi Jon, just to add your insightful comment at the start. I don't care about activation it's the downtime I can't stand. So if it's IGOUGO then I look for the counterbalance to keep me interested. All the systems below are IGOUGO but with counterbalances Song of blades engine, you covered 7TV you have a number of activation points that you can use to allocate activations to. You can save activation points and make multiple activations, but you gain activation points at the end of each turn. It's unlikely every model moves but it still can have downtime. Void Admiral - It's IGOUGO but at unit size level (small to large) and there are 4 (maybe 5 if you count swarming units) unit sizes. So unless you or your opponent takes units in one size specification it feels like alternate activation. Quar Ryffles - you get 3 activation points each turn but it could be 4 or 5 but you only know it's 4 once you've completed the 3rd and likewise you only know if you've got a 5th activation after you've made the 4th. Again small number of activations keeps it similar to alternate activations One hour skirmish with the variable number of activations based on a card draw and the instant turn end on revealing a joker. Pikemans lament is similar to Song of Blades except that each unit has to pass a "morale" check to activate. On a failed check your turn ends. GW Blood Bowl has skill checks for some actions, again failure means turnover but because it is almost like melee, you are involved a lot of the time via opposed rolls. Personally I find the whole game too slow but a smaller scale spinoff Blood Bowl 7s uses a smaller pitch and smaller model count and can absolutely wizz by. Port Royal (currently on KS by Firelock Games) each model activation may cause a reaction but there aren't any real gameplay videos. Mantic's Armada generates unit initiatve order via game state - Wind blows from 8 points on a compass (N,NE,E,SE,S,SW,W,NW) and is it sweeps across the board, you move when it hits your model. Positioning becomes important for shooting (broadsides) but also activation (catching the wind) Modiphius have done a emailshot recently on Five Parsecs [IGOIGO (loved that)] about a new game mode Five Parsecs: Tactics which looks to use bigger unit sizes (ie not individuals) and competitive (1 on 1). I'd be interested to see what the activation mechanics look like for that. So upshot for me, is how to keep people "in the room" rather than them being distracted by social media because they are bored. Years ago, not an issue, now with wifi and smartphones it's very much how to keep people in the moment. Have fun and a great weekend.

I think the problem - if there is one - is that some systems (40k springs to mind) make going first on the first turn so important, indeed sometimes that is enough to end that game. If you are going second you cannot react to your opponent's moves and often seem to be their simply to pick up your figure and put them back in the box. Another related issue is that in the IGOUGO set up both sides have a perfect view of what is happenning and can be safe in knowing they can act with all their units in that turn.In other words you have perfect execution of your chosen strategy. My favourite systems use chit/card/dice ull mechanisms to break up who gets to activate, but also incorporate some form of randomised ending of the turn, thereby making you prioritise your actions

Most of the games you mention have mechanics built into try and overcome the limitations of IGOUGO. Take Xenos Rampant, there you have a lot of units with abilities like Firefight that involve you during your opponent’s turn. This isn’t just involvement by making saving throws, it’s an opportunity to inflict casualties on the enemy and disrupt their plans during their turn, a sort of interrupt or reaction -lite mechanic. Haven’t played 40K since 3rd edition, but from what I recall, your only opportunity to intervene during an enemy turn was to put your units onto overwatch, then to snap fire at an enemy unit during their move. This has to be planned for in advance and meant you couldn’t do much in your previous turn. As you say, many of these games could be IGOUGO depending on the draw of counters/cards or success rolls, but in practice they are generally fairly mixed and there is always that edge of unpredictability that keeps you hoping, rather than a pure IGOUGO where you know that next turn, your enemy will move ALL those units against you with very little you can do to prevent it.

Instant 5e shade thrown😂

I'm only partially sympathetic to the complaints about waiting. One should not be looking at one's phone but using that time to come up with proper responses. Turn order considerations for me should be tied more to scale of the system both in space and time. In general short time scale (usually short distance scales too) are more amenable to activation systems or any system where opponents are in a more reactionary mode. Large timescales less so. But, also the nature of the armies/conflict. I go you go may be quite appropriate for Napoleonics where everyone is marching in discrete lines and protecting one another's flanks. But even then some sort of limited activation system might be included to account for those critical times (which happen) when a unit or two fails to move out and leaves their neighbors flanks wide open. These sorts of considerations are more important than player attention span. Players, get better.

Unrelated, but where do you get your hex paper. I saw on the AD&D series you had some that was hexes inside of one hex

😃👍! House Rule if one side doesn't get to move any troops for three consecutive turns, they get a freebie move of one unit. Hopefully they're bad luck breaks by then or otherwise you can give them one free unit move every two to three turns if they have zero units activate

Warhammer just wrecks IGOUGO and makes it tedious. Other wargames, particularly Osprey’s “Rampant” series, as you’ve explained just does it better. In “the Pikeman’s Lament” you can take regimental gun that can tear into a unit… but it only activates on an 8+. Woe to the over-eager commander who tries to activate that gun first before all his other units and rolls 7 or less. End of turn.