And at the end of the day that's good enough for me on most levels. I have some issues with it but it doesn't break the movie overall.

Facts. Say what you will about Zack Snyder, but you gotta give the man credit for going full anime and pulling it off so spectacularly.

Black Adam is a solid contender when it comes to action.

This is an insane take. The action is loud and heartless, so divorced from anything resembling superheroism. It’s honestly miserable to watch unless you don’t care at all about the toll the destruction takes

@@KobytheHero the destruction is devastating but not any worse than the hulk casually smashing buildings in Avengers. scenes like the smallville fight or clark x zod showdown climax hit pretty well on a personal level imo.

This is where John Schneider's Jonathan Kent in Smallville reing supreme over every adaptation in my view. It's quite clear that he's a pragmatic farmer who realizes that for the best chance for Clark to use his powers for good, he must keep his abilities a secret from as many people as possible until he's mature enough to take on that responsibility. While Jonathan Kent ultimately agrees with Uncle Ben Parker that "with great power comes great responsibility", he also believes that even if they have great power, it doesn't mean they're inherently able to wield that power responsibly or well even if they have the right intentions. Essentially, he wants Clark to be able to have the freedom to grow up and become his own man before using his powers as a force for the ultimate good. Smallville as a tv show is the story of that journey. By the end of the 10 season run, he's a man in his mid-to-late 20s who has a very good grasp on who he is and what he stands for and has the maturity, empathy, and understanding to use his powers wisely.

It's not a lack of clarity, he just doesn't know... he's not the perfect dad with all the answers, he's a more "realistic" flawed man full of doubt and fears for his son... plus he also has to thread a VERY FINE needle so as to not steer Clark into a direction that could end up in disaster... plus there's a whole context to JK's religious background that makes things more complicated too. To me the "maybe" line just means "while you're a godly being, you are NOT God, it's not up to you to decide who lives and who dies"... or the typical "the fact that you can doesn't mean you should" phrase.

@@TheGeorgeD13 a million times this

I recently rewatched Man of Steel and something clicked. Up until this point, I never understood why Jonathan would discourage Clark from acting heroically.. even if it meant losing his own life. Additionally, BvS always seemed so thematically jumbled and laden with politic. Batman vs Superman as a movie describes how both good and bad forces would react to Superman showing himself to the world and is precisely what Jonathan feared for Clark if that happened, ultimately culminating in the death of his son.

@@jacowboy i concur

Who

@@fusiontoa18 think LOTS of disaster movies

@@paulgaston ah gotcha

MoS is what if Superman existed in the real world.

at least it's not Godzilla 1998

You jewish?

@@fusiontoa18 i did not expect this but that was kinda funny

I second this

Eh

@@fusiontoa18 don’t you dare besmirch implicitly pretentious

100% agree. In BvS, after Superman reveals himself to the world, you see the backlash from the world and how much it negatively affected Clark. Papa Kent knew that would happen, which is why he didn't want Clark's secret to leak out accidentally before Clark was ready, due to him being reckless while saving someone. In John's eyes, If Clark's secret gets out, he wanted it to be because Clark made the CONSCIOUS CHOSE to reveal himself.

Look what you wrote. How is that not literally a textbook definition of being selfish? The situation you're speaking on is Johnathan Kent telling young Superman that letting a bunch of kids die is an acceptable loss to keep himself and his family safe from scrutiny.

@@Malthizar 1) he never said it was an acceptable loss, don’t twist his words. 2) it was never about “himself and his family” is was solely to protect his 14 year old son. John literally died saving people from a tornado , he cared about his family’s safety more than his own life. He wanted Clark to be able to CHOOSE when he wants to reveal himself, rather than get caught using his powers recklessly & be forced to face the world’s wrath as an immature teenager. 3) he doesn’t care about “scrutiny” he cares about the entire world gunning after his only son before he’s old enough to handle it. The world’s reaction happened in BvS when Superman revealed himself to the world & people were in the streets protesting his existence while the media talked down on him & insulted him 24/7. John correctly predicted how the world would react.

@@JayTee2000 He says it may be better for a bus full of kids to die over Clark's secret getting out. Again, every point you're making shows selfishness. It's putting Clark's needs over the needs of others who may need his help. You can justify it if you want, but no other version of Jonathan Kent has ever said something that selfish, which is why it's made this version of the character so infamous.

@@Malthizar 1) he doesn't say that lmfao listen to his entire speech instead of arguing over one word. 2) John never tells Clark to not help people, which is why the movie starts with Clark saving people & when Lois finds Clark, she talks to all the people he's miraculously saved throughout his life to figure out a way to find him. 3) I don't think you know what selfish means 😂

Probably because it’s not good or healthy to hold onto anger/negative emotions for years, especially not over a piece of media designed primarily to entertain? I say that as someone who loves older media. What is good will last, while what is bad will be forgotten.

@@TheGirlgamer321 Also it’s not every day an older film is dragged on premises that are actually false. e.g. Superman Never Smiled.

I think it's a testament to the character of Superman, and what he means to people. He's an ideal, so when how he's portrayed flies in the face of our personal ideals and values, that feels personal. These sorts of discussions about Superman are often, at the core, philosophical discussions.

@@cassiedevereaux-smith3890 ironically enough, this is why Snyder’s interpretation of the character is the most impactful. Smallville nor Superman Returns have kept the character in public discussion quite like Snyder. The abstract nature of his interpretation has made the character a conversation piece, something which the character has failed to be in the last 2 decades. I’d argue that since Snyder, ppl are discussing the importance of the character more frequently than the are Batman. Which is awesome.

​@@RewMec226 TLJ put star wars in the public discourse too. It still betrays the heart of the character.

It's telling that most of the people who criticize that scene aren't parents (or at least can't seem to see it from that perspective).

@@ginichilders9619 exactly.

Someone who gets it!👏🏾

Thank you !! Man of steel was perfect

Ha. That's how you write a superman when you can't. What's this superman's girlfriend Lois Lane

@@DSan-kl2yc read again... you lack comprehension.

@@revenantronin8377 read again. Exactly what I thought. That's how you write Superman when you don't know how. My comprehension was fine. Why did you even question it? Some insult? I'll go further. It didn't feel like a comic book in particular. If it was, it wasn't good. A questionable take for an origin. It didn't work in this instance anyway.

​@@DSan-kl2ycdamn bro went radio silent

I’m sure I’d love Henry Cavills Supermans 20 times more if Zack had 2 seasons worth of material to expand his arc. It’s not really that fair to compare but I get it

@@notyouraveragebear9326 ok just watch the first episode it's already a huge difference in just how Superman is approached finally as Superman

@@mahiyatsafiyullah7103 Just by that Tyler is hoaky like Reeve.

@@Powerhaus88 hoaky by Reeves sorry I don't know what that means but I assume ok

Yeah Sups was more conserned about the affect he has on people than really what he does which is probably what Op ment (I mean even in the comics he is kind of sacred about his affects on the people around him and gives himself a hard time)

Beautifully said.

I don't know how people miss this answer when they are capable of asking the question that begets it.

In BvS he proceeds to briefly decide to stop being Superman telling Lois _"Superman was never real"_ after receiving backlash and scrutiny from the public. If that was the point of John's speech, then Clark completely fails at doing good because he wants to, instead of only if the public likes him enough.

@@allendrake6960 because BVS is about the moral failures of them both. Clark decides to let the public mold his path, and Bruce…I mean that one’s obvious. ZSJL is their redemption, their “second chance”

I think it really shows how much humanity can influence Clark cause he sticks to his humanity. In todays world, he is under the weight of EVERY person in the world. How can you NOT collapse from people scrutinizing you at every turn. He just wants to do the right thing and show people there is good in the world. Really hard to do especially if you still aren’t a veteran Superman

​@@BeskarDevilon point ❤

how was the movie now? Was it better?

Both work... in fact, MOS is more of a Man vs. self story whereas BvS explores the man vs. world idea... they're kind of two sides of the same coins in a sense, which is why I enjoy those 2 movies so much.

@@jacowboy That's how I always viewed it. Man of Steel being a story about choice, with Clark having to accept his role as Earth's protector and Krypton's chance at redemption, even amidst the potential life struggles he could face by doing so. In Batman v Superman, those struggles took center stage as Superman's model is questioned by a number of people, leading him to doubt his overall sense of purpose in a world that ain't "simpler". By the time we got to ZSJL, Superman came to terms with both himself and with the complexities of the world he's protecting, resulting in a wiser, more confident superhero that is willing to die in the name of altruism. The Justice League became the living proof of his success. That's why it only makes sense for Henry Cavill's Superman to be this established, inspirational superhero in WBD's upcoming Superman film. He's earned that role.

*man of steel (2013) is flawed but still has enjoyable moments, the realistic take on Superman (despite being an alien lol) works for me even tho it could’ve been executed better, the serious tone for this superman works for me but my issues is that the development for Superman is somewhat lacking as is his relationship with Lois lane, yes we know they’re gonna end up together but the pacing needs work and it goes from action sequence to action sequence without any calming moments in between* *henry cavill deserves better, hopefully with his new sequel that’s coming, he has more creative control with the character and portrays him as the hopeful Boy Scout that we’re used to seeing*

Man vs self works best

Joe El literally tells him what he should be. How is that his choice? He doesn't become "Superman" until being given his "marching orders" and his uniform. Again, not his choice.

@@Malthizar Jor El tells him what he COULD be not what he SHOULD be. In BvS he is reminded of the fact that being Superman is his choice when he asks his mother what he SHOULD do, she tells him (I'm paraphrasing rn) to be people's hero or not, it's always been up to him. If you aren't planning on rewatching the movies anytime soon, then you should look up clips on the scene where he first speaks to Jor El in the scout ship and the one where he asks Ma Kent for advice in BvS (the scene is the one at their farm at night, not the one over the phone). My bad on not giving the exact dialogue lol

@@jeijahdiel so what to any of it? We all knew Superman decides to be Superman. From the very first comic To animated series. So the eff what Why are you or anyone else acting like that's revolutionary. Even in C.reeves he does it in the second one.

Exactly. Pa Kent wanted Clark to have a choice in who or what he wanted to be. Just like Jor El. If Clark is Superman because he feels like he HAS to save people. Or that he has a duty to save people because he's the only one with the specific capabilities for it. Then that's not a choice. And in a way that's no different then any other Kryptonians. Because remember Kryptonians also acted out of a sense of duty not choice because they were bred to have specific capabilities to do specific things. This movie to me is about Choices. It asks a very important question. Is it better to be a hero out of obligation or is it better to be a hero out of choice.

@@kingkiller5325 Yeah, you phrased it way better than I did, dude. It's about choice, not obligation - which ties into the whole conflict between him and Zod and the other Kryptonians. That way it informs us that even when he could be something else or do something else, he would still choose to be and do good (which I believe is very impactful).

The problem with Cavills Superman being "relatable" is that we know next to nothing about him as a character. What's his personality? What are his interests outside of reluctantly saving people? What qualifications does he have to become a journalist at the end?

I honestly disagree with you on a few things like Clark’s characterization. The red neck was sexually harassing a waitress & he was being a jerk, also the fact that reason for his truck was smashed being more 1:1 with Action comics #1. Clark was more like his golden age era where he’s more, aggressive towards wrongdoers, I guess. With metropolis that’s more of zod than Clark, with the fact that Clark got beaten up by alien super soldiers mainly. Zod wasn’t gonna be really letting earth live anyway. I really don’t see how Snyder’s is really like Jesus, he’s not really the first person to do so, like Richard Donner’s, Silver Age era, Smallville, etc. with Jonathan’s death while it’s not like we’re used to, it did show him being the kind of person he is, and how he was willing to tell his son that it’s not worth losing his secret because him, and that he’s not ready to make the decision yet; I feel like any parent would do anything to protect their kid, either physically or socially. With Lois & Clark’s relationship is different and felt rushed to you, I honestly think that it’s fine since she’s the one that actually knows him being Superman at the start and has been by his side since they crossed paths, heck she was looking for him just for her story till she started to get that it’s more important to let him have a life of normalcy than her career. I honestly think that it’s a normal pace for the start of their relationship especially when others were more quick like Superman 78’ (though beautiful it’s still kinda, more short and not a big part of the series).

Snyder's Superman never was Jesus. The thing people don't understand is that Snyder and others with him wanted to show how the world would react to Superman if he was real. Those films never meant to say that Superman see himself as Jesus. That's why they showed that a big part of mankind kept seeing Superman as a messiah, and *that was something which Clark never wanted.* That's why he stopped smiling when when a crowd of people started treating him as a messiah. He was clearly confused. People critize those films one of which said in a scene that "Maybe he's not some sort of devil or Jesus character. Maybe he's just a guy trying to do the right thing."

Metropolis was destroyed a part of it was due to the world engine

@@legoben98productions I think the problem people have is it was a stupid way to show that, I mean for one thing Clark could've gone and gotten the dog without any powers that was just dumb but two usually Jon dies in a way Superman can't stop to show how Clark can't save everyone or do anything. As for Lois and Clark, they weren't together since they first crossed paths, he saves her then she hunts him down cause it's not like he wanted her to find him, and then because of all that she's involved with the Zod stuff and by the end they're just together

Superman burning stephenwolfs horn off and beating him to a pulp as aggressively as possible in zsjl is also unsettling

*man of steel (2013) is flawed but still has enjoyable moments, the realistic take on Superman (despite being an alien lol) works for me even tho it could’ve been executed better, the serious tone for this superman works for me but my issues is that the development for Superman is somewhat lacking as is his relationship with Lois lane, yes we know they’re gonna end up together but the pacing needs work and it goes from action sequence to action sequence without any calming moments in between* *henry cavill deserves better, hopefully with his new sequel that’s coming, he has more creative control with the character and portrays him as the hopeful Boy Scout that we’re used to seeing* *EDIT: oof this DID NOT AGE WELL* #FireJamesGunn

@@friggyk the movie isn’t flawed. The film is exactly like it was meant to be. And this is proven by it still being in discussion almost a decade later. Now 2011 Green Lantern? That is a flawed movie.

@@RewMec226 *green lantern is flawed but man of steel is better and STILL has flaws, I see what your trying to say, the “deeper meaning” and all that bs, sure it might’ve been ahead of it time but some elements were just poorly executed, tell me, what is Clark Kent’s motivation throughout the entire movie ? And can you name one scene where Lois and Clark get ACTUALLY development and buildup because yes we know tHat they’re going to end up together anyway but aside from that, the exposition/beginning is fine but THE MIDDLE PART is just “jumps right into the action piece” til the very end without any real development for the characters and that’s my issue with the film, not the killing zod part which is justified IMO but what I just said*

How weak minded swayed so easily

@@fusiontoa18 but only the wisest of souls are willing to listen and change their perspective

Yeah as someone who could be considered “not from here” or “different” I found superman very relatable and the way he was ostracized for who he is

100% agree. I think his Batman v Superman video is the best BvS video on KZfaq, but he missed the mark with this video. I find Clark extremely relatable in this movie, as a man torn between two worlds. He especially got the John Kent Monologue wrong, making it about "objectivism" instead of it simply being a Father trying to keep his son safe by protecting his secret until he's old enough to decide whether he wants to reveal it to the world or not.

Sups here is really treated the most "Alien" from any live action adaptation TBH not in the him being an Alien part but more on him being an Outsider, in MoS the reason his parents want to shelter him and not do anything isn't because they want their son to be a Guy like Lex Luthor a man who only wants to be on top, but because they want to shelter him from the harm the world might cause to him and vise versa. Sups is so strong and powerful and most especially an outsider by his biological nature, IRL people are afraid of skilled Immigrant Workers, just imagine what they would think if one can Lift Mountains.

@@JayTee2000 I think Thematically it is JK in this movie isn't what he normally is, he is just a scared Dad but also he represents the idealistic thinking of Ayn Rand. (Or in otherwords he is ment to represent the holes on Objectivist theory, he means well but doesn't consider the dangers that ideology can bring hence why in the sequels the Objectivism thing was dropped, basically JK and Sup's relationship here represents Snyder's opinions about Objectivism.) He is ment to be wrong in certain aspects and naive.

I agree.

This didn't age well

nope

At least he was back one more time for a sweet Cameo in Black Adam. ♥ (i wish we could have a conclusion for him in a MAN OF STEE 2) Do Superman legacy and all you want James Gunn! But let other director do MoS2 (call it man of tomorrow) i'd love it.

Superman killed doomsday and Zod in the comics and he did it to save civilians

@@dikiiieykick1734 he had enough strenghth to snap zods neck but he couldn’t turn his head away from the civilians? Seems like bs to me

Thank you, the use of collectivist to describe zod also bothered me, he's a clear analogue for fascism and is an open eugenicist. to your point If anything Clark is more of a collectivist because he literally proposes that zod makes an effort to coexist with humans instead of teraforming and eradicating humans. And then comparing Superman and Snyder's themes as randian and objectivist is illustrative of a superficial understanding of that ideology and a misunderstanding of what Snyder likes about rand/fountainhead Believing in choice is not randian, and neither is doing anything for yourself in a reasonable amount not inherently anyway, if Clark acted solely for his benefit then the argument would be sensible but he doesn't, explicitly he acts in the service of others. This would be as bad as saying that because you eat before you leave the house to go about your day and help others that you're an objectivist. An objectivist would hoard food to make sure they can always eat at the expense of everyone else because self preservation is above all else and a "rational virtue". If Superman was this way in MoS he would've just let zod do whatever and not fought to save earth risking his own life. Of course he did not. John Kent is scared for his son and is doing what he thinks is best in this very unique and potentially dangerous situation. He's not saying "maybe" the kids should've been left to die in the school bus scene in a serious sense, he's saying maybe in a way that highlights his unsureness. It's obvious he doesn't know what to do but he knows his son would be in danger if people found out before Clark was ready to handle it. The same reason he let himself be killed by the tornado. And while I think the scene is the low point of the movie for me, it's consistent with John's actions up to that point and is emotionally impactful-to Clark anyway, your own reaction may vary.

Zack Snyder never portrayed Superman as standing above humanity.

Smallville is the direct reason I hate this Johnathan.....it's just a slap in the face

@@ninjanibba4259 See? You just wanted Smallville Again... that's YOUR problem, not the movie's.

@@jacowboy clearly it is the movies, when a majority hates this version, it's the movie...

He wants his son to be happy. He, being older, knows that fame can cause others to be unhappy even though they have everything. Jon knows that Clark believes in helping and over time, finds out he has the powers to do that, but Jon wants him to not feel like he has to be the savior. He wants Clark to chose his story and be happy even if that means not being the savior of the world. Jon is also the opposite juxtaposition of Jor-El being the dad that pushes him to become the savior even if he doesn’t want too. Two fathers: - One that wants his son to be a savior, even if it’s not really what he wants. - The other, the one who wants his son to do what he wants, even if that means not being the savior and possibly letting people die. This causes Clark to go on a walk about where he struggles on what to do. He’s nervous, confused, angry and unhappy and then decides that he’d rather be a hero and help people, than live a life of solitude.

Not knowing the correct way on how to guide a child that was found with godly powers is more relatable if you really put it into the context of the world we live in. How many child stars end up going off the trails because they had bad guidance, I know it's a stretch to look at it like that but he wanted his son to be safe. He's not being altruistic he's being a father and protective of his son.

That wasn't about JK wanting to commit Child slaying, its JK saying that Sups nature makes him a potential target for descrimination based on his power not based on his actions which is likely what would happen if an Alien lands on Earth as a Child adopted by human parents. It also has a large potential affect on Clark himself as he could potentially turn on people. (Its still dark and uncharacteristic of the Kents we know but its not because he wa ts Clark to simply let people die for the LOLs, its a representation of a Parent's fear of the harm others may grant their child.)

That maybe line is still wild. Plus his death was stupid.

@@TheShockVox not really when you consider JK's character in this movie, he's a more "realistic" take on a more conservative, religious american man who is being confronted by the existence of not only aliens, but a godly being to boot... you have to realize that in JK's mind, "God" is still the ruling factor in life, it is by god's will that things happen or not, so the line "maybe" is more a reflection of JK's beliefs and values and a warning to Clark that while he might be "godly", he's still not "God", it's not up to him to decide who lives and who dies (a theme that is further explored in BvS)... or well, that's my interpretation of it =P

Yeah no, that's not what Johnathan means and who he is to Clark nor why Superman is supposed to be a symbol of hope Which is what these movies seriously lack...HARD

@@ninjanibba4259 whatever, you're just projecting your personal and subjective ideas and meanings onto something, instead of letting it be its own thing.... or to put it bluntly, you're just a fanboy who's angry because he didn't get what he wanted...

But he doesn't though. He spends all his screen time trying to stop Clark making his own choices

dude u are just lying to yourself the movie was great and man of steel was joyful and bright And james gunn is not helming the movie

@@felixgoobins Lol, are you a troll? You made no arguments and just refuted everything he said, even the James Gunn thing even though that is a fact

"why Garfield Asohka is the best star wars girl"

Who doesn't?

​@@Batman-kx6oy dccomicscirclejerk

superman in MoS don't have superspeed, he found out about it in justice league and the entire focus of BvS court scene is to show that superman doesn't have superspeed at the time.

@XxX-ww you are joking right?