In Destiny "Light" and "Dark" have nothing to do with "Good" and "Evil".

Рет қаралды 119,729

Ай бұрын

Destiny 2's powers of Light and Dark were believed to represent good and evil in the story and lore of Destiny for the longest time. As it happens, this isn't true. There are wielders of the Light that one might certainly consider to be evil and there are wielders of the Darkness that are definitely on the side of good. Savathun the Witch Queen, The Warlords of Dark Age Earth & Osiris are examples of character that buck these trends.
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Пікірлер: 158

@CheezerTheGrate Ай бұрын

I’d say Savathûn is more of a neutral force counting she’s serving what she thinks is right and what the Traveler wants

@Sanjiluv Ай бұрын

you know whats funny about the 3 hive gods? Oryx is some of the best trans representation in media ever and no one mentions that shit. Thats how that shits done.

@CheezerTheGrate Ай бұрын

@@Sanjiluv that’s irrelevant to what I just said but you make a good point I will admit that

@Sanjiluv Ай бұрын

@@CheezerTheGrate its because no one ever mentions that shit. Because everyone is all about the shitty trans representation that is designed to do nothing more than extract cash from morons. Oryx extracted cash from morons and enlightened people alike. how it should be.

@Sanjiluv Ай бұрын

Savathun is also transmorphic though. She did not look like that at all. And she is definitely not neutral. Neutral means non-participatory. She is a third party and her sister is still alive and very much able to shape things with logic just as the witness does because thats where the power derived from in the first place. Chances are savathun or xivu move in to steal or imitate the witnesses power.

@katalyst_ Ай бұрын

Its really not like that at all. Xivu believes in th3 sword logic but savathun thinks that shit is childish and stupid just liie the witness. Xivu has a blatant motive but savathun is random af and diesnt even have allegiance to her family. @Sanjiluv

@JediKnight35-de7uf Ай бұрын

I think that savathun is just trying to train us in the pale heart to prep us for the raid

@dolphinpooh9447 Ай бұрын

She most likely sees trying to kill us as an act of love knowing the ghost will just bring us back.

@wooloob6275 Ай бұрын

Before we engage savathun’s forces fully, Savathun literally DM’d us saying “think of it as an act of love ;)” while everyone is freaking out she just replies with “if you lose to me NOW, good luck fighting the witness.”

@A_random_funeral_consultant Ай бұрын

@@dolphinpooh9447I believe I heard her subtly mention she also tithes from it when she was speaking to another character, so it’s just to help maintain power along with expressing the hives version of “love”

@willyboi1105 29 күн бұрын

@@A_random_funeral_consultant maybe. If Xivu Arath gains power from war and fighting others then Savathun probably gets stronger from making other people feel tricked/betrayed and constantly twisting the way they see her.

@Ultima_Prime Ай бұрын

Ada-1 literally says she's seen the light be used by warlords and such, and that a new tool doesn't change the wielder.

@WHERE_YOU_GO 13 күн бұрын

@garrettviewegh9028 Ай бұрын

The line between light and dark is so very thin. Some will ask you which side you’re on. Others will suggest to cross it entirely. But what if there never was never meant to be one? After all, using both in balance… it’s something not even Ulan Tan considered. Prismatic, the power to defy fate itself.

@HugeHaddock Ай бұрын

What if the Witness isn't evil, just from our perspective. What if by creating the final shape it will bring perfection and harmony to the universe (Possibly multiverse due to timelines being confirmed). Why care about a few planets if it's for the future of everything as we know it. Then again I'm not incredibly well versed in the newer areas of Lore, so I could be totally wrong

@justanidiotmk2749 Ай бұрын

@@HugeHaddockthe witness is a coward who tries to prevent the inevitable by making it arrive early. So afraid of something like entropy they decided to end everything early by freezing it in place eternally.

@woomyboy98 Ай бұрын

@@HugeHaddock least obvious decisple of the witness. But in all seriousness that's pretty much what the witness believes. It thinks an unending stillness is the greatest form of existence. Instead of the constant struggle to live, no more fighting, no more death, no more life. It's like pressing pause on a video but on the universe forever.

@raphaelo_wolfen-0x597 Ай бұрын

@@HugeHaddock he's pushing the Final Shape as a form of salvation. He wanted to encase everything, calcified in unending existence. "Perfection" in stillness. Their vision was flawed. Life changes, it revolves, creates and destroys, as so does darkness. Perfection is non-existent because for something to be perfect it must be flawless, and we know nothing is

@willyboi1105 29 күн бұрын

@@HugeHaddock it seems like uncontrolled freedom vs constricting safety. Imo this theme has been explored a lot in other stories and humanity will always choose a dangerous but free life over a safe cage. Technically, if the Final Shape occurs, we are all "safe" and unchanging so we'll never become worse than what we are now. You'll never potentially experience grief, depression, rage, etc in the future. However, we'll also never get the chance to become better or get a second chance. You'll never get a chance to create new happy memories with your loved ones or accomplish more goals in your life. Humanity will always take the gamble of an undecided free life over a stagnant predetermined life.

@Shapes_Quality_Control Ай бұрын

As someone who has been flying Ulan Tan’s ship since the Red War it’s so gratifying to see some vindication for the Symmetry in the Final Shape’s lore book.

@Artakha9000 Ай бұрын

Discussions like these are why Prismatic is so important: It is the answer to the question, "What if the line between light and dark was never meant to exist?" One cannot exist without the other. As such, believing one side is wholly good while the other is wholly evil is way too black and white, when the world is so much more grey than that, or in this case, so much more colorful.

@grimm_satisfaction1292 Ай бұрын

I mean, the Traveler and the Veil _were_ once a single entity, so... 🤔

@fu77yfr3ak Ай бұрын

Savathun is a wild card and I'm here for it

@jadelin2635 Ай бұрын

They are just elements. A storm does not choose to destroy crops, the ocean does not choose to flood houses, the earth does not choose to collapse cities. They simply exist.

@raphaelo_wolfen-0x597 Ай бұрын

"don't categorize one form of power into evilness and goodness, but the wearer of said power" that's what I came up with and sums up

@voidvoidvoid7274 29 күн бұрын

Loving it :O

@jacobwhite8630 Ай бұрын

Is a sword a weapon to kill or an instrument to protect, The answer is alway choice

@Sanjiluv Ай бұрын

the answer has always been kill. The swords entire purpose is to kill. The user determines if that killing is in protection or not. That's where your choice is. The weapon has no choice in what it is.

@Demon-. Ай бұрын

@Sanjiluv no, not always. You can kill, maim, or use it to frighten a threat. There are many ways to use a weapon besides killing. If you compare the police to a weapon, it has active and passive effects. Knowing that a weapon is around can deter ill intent from others. Unless crazed or stupid, a reasonable person won't go after a person who is known to have a weapon. For instance, the Guardian is like a weapon to be weilded against the Witness. By the Guardian even existing, the Witness feels threatened and wants to persuade them over to their side or destroy them.

@Sanjiluv Ай бұрын

@@Demon-. A sword was always meant to kill. Sword is the key here.

@Asgaardiangatekeeper Ай бұрын

It is a weapon to kill, but why you kill matters. All world beliefs have a heavy distinction between protection and murder.

@user-ud6ru4gu4e 27 күн бұрын

@@Sanjiluv the sword is a weapon of defense, no other weapon has it’s capabilities of protection. Kill if you must, but killing is not the goal, the goal is protecting others, if you must kill to do so, then so be it

@sovelissfiremane Ай бұрын

Is that Athanasia I hear in the background? 👀

@Demon-. Ай бұрын

And I'm finally getting on track for an all Darkness Minion build of Stasis Turrets that want to shoot anything that moves and Strand Threadlings that just want to cuddle 🤣

@fu77yfr3ak Ай бұрын

Do the threadlings train the turrets on what to shoot at? If so that's hilarious 😂

@Demon-. Ай бұрын

@@fu77yfr3ak LOL! 🤣

@serinahighcomasi2248 Ай бұрын

Using Athanasia as BGM? It’s an awesome Byf short today.

@TheButterManGG Ай бұрын

Light gives me bonk hammer and darkness gives me the ability to make other mad

@stargazer99 17 күн бұрын

XD That’s bloody great~~~

@mirkopilipovic9553 Ай бұрын

I think the Traveler broke the rules of the Flower Game

@grimm_satisfaction1292 Ай бұрын

Technically, the possibly not so metaphorical Gardener broke the rules first.

@rgnszeb123 Ай бұрын

We have no clue if the witch queen’s bad actually which is part of the reason Destiny’s story is too wacky

@exodocian 23 күн бұрын

I sincerely hope destiny 3 takes place during the collapse/ dark age, those time periods have such potential and NEED to be explored. Imagine a free roam esc game with warring lightbearers where your choices help shape the future. Maybe the story is how your guardian helps found the last city :)

@stargazer99 17 күн бұрын

That’s actually a really good idea~~~

@Metalsmoke420TTW Ай бұрын

I’ve come to understand it is more of a yin and yang kind of partnership. In the light Is a darkness. In the darkness is a little light.

@KaiTheManokit Ай бұрын

Like we learned in Witch Queen, the darkness is neither a force of good or bad, rather it is a neutral power.

@LtLeo 10 күн бұрын

This is why one specific part of lightfall stuck out to me amoung the mid campaign. If you investigate the jars of light and dark elements in the hall of heroes, Osiris comments on them. When interacting with the dark two, he notes that darkness is connected to the intangible while the light deals with the physical. Stasis is will and strand is connection. That's how I view light and dark since. Light is the domain of the physical world, darkness is the domain of the intangible. And (personal hc) the traveler and witness are not avatars, but simply envoys. Spreading knowledge and access to these powers but being seperate entirely. Killing the witness doesn't kill darkness, after all.

@nicholasvallejo2121 Ай бұрын

Ever since we got stasis, I've seen the light and dark as yin and yang. One has more clearance with good, and one has more clearance with evil, with some people using the dark for good and the light for evil

@Soulfire1138 5 күн бұрын

osiris must have some special sunbracers for strand or something

@Ganggoose 26 күн бұрын

Thanks you’ve now overcomplicated the one thing we thought we understood😭

@caquita3036 Ай бұрын

Im starting to know a lot more thanks to your videos, even tho I'm called by my friends the grimoire guy, and I think that maybe the light and dark comes from the same place but got separated.

@Ranger771 Ай бұрын

Its a matter of will and weather you let it break you or make you anew

@gamerguru2924 29 күн бұрын

Byf missing dregen Yor as the easiest example of evil guardians

@underscore_nick1344 Ай бұрын

I think that neither the light or darkness are either good or bad. They just simply exist. As for the traveler, idk if it’s necessarily good or evil. I think that the traveler is just trying to survive the witness and it knows it cant do it on its own. So after we defeat the witness who knows what the traveler will do. Maybe it’ll leave maybe not

@pranavk281 Ай бұрын

Was there lore during nightfall or something that stated that light represented physical things and dark represented mental things and consciousness and stuff? I think it’s just that right?

@liptonicetea274 Ай бұрын

I knew that, that was my original theory back when d1 first came out.

@Elijahthefrozenhunter Ай бұрын

And the traveler is now a being of light and dark because of the darkness being inside of it, but it’s not hurting it, the witness is hurting the traveler but the darkness isn’t

@Alak-Hul_Darkblade Ай бұрын

I think that she just wanted a taste of prismatic

@chrisreilly1290 Ай бұрын

Was Savathun really evil though?

@mrstronk 29 күн бұрын

Best way to look at it is fire. Fire will keep you warm and cook your food but it'll also burn down houses and kill you without care or used in the wrong way. I'm pretty sure osiris even says that exact thing about stand and the light

@heavensdoor7955 Ай бұрын

Since becoming a light bearer, what has Savathun done that was evil? I feel like the game just villainous her relentlessly with extremely little justification

@Asgaardiangatekeeper Ай бұрын

Her stunt with Crota and the Vex, earned her that distinction permanently, but I agree with you. At least until they address that crap she pulled with the portal.

@vix1027 19 күн бұрын

Drifter did say something along the lines of dark and light only used as a tool of survival or someone else had I feel it was drifter tho

@mbashasyed 23 күн бұрын

It's funny how the Dark Future came to pass in the main continuity. Instead of holding Savathun under the Scarlett keep while draining her power for evil, Eris similarly drains the power out of a hostage Savathun but for the purpose of good

@tuviaisrael9463 Ай бұрын

Thank you for pointing out that the warlords were Not good light wielders

@le4kd944 25 күн бұрын

The light and darkness feel like Yin and Yang the more I learn about it. Neither are good or evil, yet can be used in either way, or in no way like how Zavala never used darkness and Cayde lost light classes.

@kingoflight6811 Ай бұрын

I see the light and dark is like a gun, there can be good people who uses the gun to protect people, and there are bad people who uses the gun to kill people. It depends on how you use it

@DFDrifter 20 күн бұрын

How about my boy Drifter who learned Stasis? 🤨

@Doktor_CC Ай бұрын

Say in other news, you gonna make another video about kelgorath considering that he's now the vestige of failure?

@proteinbor5679 17 күн бұрын

Tbf bungie has set us up with this „darkness is bad“ idea since destiny 1 because for a while all we knew was that Darkness is coming for us and is trying to defeat us…

@subdemon. Ай бұрын

My boi Zavala with that stasis 👊

@kirabastian 29 күн бұрын

Anyone who back then played the story missions on europa knows that

@cranklovesyou5311 Ай бұрын

To be fair even calling the guardians the good guys is a bit of a stretch. The witness may be our enemy but his end goal while destructive has no real malice behind it. If anything I would call the struggle of the light and darkness saga as merely a fight for survival and whose ideals prevail.

@xkumanekox Ай бұрын

One of the reasons why I hate the main characters in D2, particular the Vanguard characters and Elsie, who are always on that 'Light good, Darkness bad' diatribe.

@xkumanekox Ай бұрын

Even diving deep into the lore last time I already can tell that that's definitely not the case, and things in that universe isn't all 'black and white'. And I was right.

@Sbudz Ай бұрын

I always just thought of it like universal forces arent good or bad they just are

@idylliclove03 Ай бұрын

Meanwhile I’m just sitting here hoping for a 3rd darkness subclass.. not only because it would be epic, but Bungie can finally have 7 subclasses and maintain their favorite number.

@BungieStudios 15 күн бұрын

The Traveler does not like the Darkness or the Winnower. That is why the Guardians are suspicious of it. The two powers used to be united.

@lamoynebillups3665 Ай бұрын

Yep the light in the dark are tools be used

@livingalife8879 12 күн бұрын

With this revelation isnt it kind of fuckef up that the traveler has to choose you. And that you might not be a good guy

@jeffreyaguilar8028 22 күн бұрын

If the darkness isn’t evil then why do those exposed to the Veil go bonkers?

@Asgaardiangatekeeper Ай бұрын

After everything Ive seen, the Witness was evil only because they were victims of the Traveler. The Traveler started it all, and is going to end it all, now that there is no big bad keeping it in check.

@Antifag1977 2 күн бұрын

I believe he is missing the true point - good and evil are ENTIRELY subjective. . Although most humans would generally agree on what is good behavior vs evil behavior but when motives get involved it get really tricky. For example.... Almost everyone would agree that murdering a family would be an evil thing. But say if that family enslaved, abused, tortured and killed your family member, while not saying it would be good, a sizeable chunk of people would also not consider it bad or evil. . Naturally that is an extreme example but it illustates the subjectiveness of good and evil.

@darkmegician 23 күн бұрын

Why did the traveler choose the hive and reanimate savathun if she’s evil tho?

@Breadlord9000 Ай бұрын

What I’ve learned is the light is the power of the physical and the darkness is the power of the non physical ( I forgot the word )

@chez1241 Ай бұрын

No, the light and darkness are mcguffins used to further the story of a live service game called "Destiny"

@Misosalty683 Ай бұрын

Zavala a behemoth titan lol

@evana6955 Ай бұрын

I found myself agreeing with the witness I mean our characters get no recognition and we literally murder gods on the daily

@wilfredjurassicyes Ай бұрын

Not in destiny. One compliments the other. I glad you brought this up. We need to really get away from this dark is bad light is good. Both can be true and not true.

@ChecksTowaga Ай бұрын

Honestly, Prismatic should've been called Finality

@BOT-001-xn7tp Ай бұрын

I'd say that the light represents all things physical and the dark represents all thing mental but that's just what i think

@ministryofwrongthink6962 26 күн бұрын

Let's get one thing straight though.. it's not as is we weren't deliberately baiting into assuming light/dark meant good vs evil. Our revaluation of darkness's true nature is literally part of Destiny's story.

@Warren-ov4ot 22 күн бұрын

Simply, the light is about physical stuff the dark is mental

@orochioffire 29 күн бұрын

The powers of light and darkness are nothing more than tools. How the person chooses to use them will define them as good or evil.

@riccardoimbrescia 13 күн бұрын

Light=Good//Darkness=Evil was true pretty much until Beyond Light. Let's not forget that.

@flashback4019 29 күн бұрын

Even calling savthun evil isn’t entirely true. She is the ONLY reason humanity survived the collapse

@ad9aggie Ай бұрын

The Light is chaos and the Darkness is law

@maatoangeleri2913 29 күн бұрын

What exactly differentiates Light elements from Dark elements?

@daxterstrock3319 Ай бұрын

Pulling from your massive story video, the light represents chaos whole the dark represents control. Arbitrarily, it would be reversed, dark is good, and light is evil. It ties directly into your example of evil light user and good dark user. That we are in control and we decide the fate of good or evil. In the case of the guardian, we are the definition of the good version of the final shape. Combining and harmonizing both sides. I believe what the witness is attempting is dark control over light which is not harmonizing. Plot armor but we obviously are the "correct" version of the final shape imo

@Silent-1119 6 күн бұрын

Doesn’t sound so complex sounds simple, everyone bad that faces my hand canon

@destinytroll1374 25 күн бұрын

I'll be entirely honest, I would have preferred if they did have the light is good and dark is bad has more Central to the story. I think trying to say that both could be good or bad is a morally weak argument that removes a lot of narrative punch from the storytelling in this universe. Morally grey does not mean it's more interesting

@alienxy2z Ай бұрын

Probably not the first to say this but only if the jedi realized thiw

@MxIxTxC 29 күн бұрын

We stand with the traveler button

@onlyeatapples3166 29 күн бұрын

Time is so dam evil

@stevefernandez6431 Ай бұрын

Not all acts of good are wise and not all acts of evil are ignorant. But still we must strive to do good. If light and dark are anything they are creation and destruction or Positive and negative. We all abhor destruction but it is decay that needs to come before growth. For decay of the plants feed the next generation so it can grow. The old must die for the young to come lest ecosystems collapse species go extinct all will extinguishes. it is this that makes life possible. Light and darkness are nature of existence.

@ethanos187 Ай бұрын

Whats the name of the song in the background?

@ItsBlaZem8 Ай бұрын

Athanasia

@ethanos187 Ай бұрын

@@ItsBlaZem8 thankyou

@astropond5081 Ай бұрын

Light and dark are neutral forces that can complement each other.

@creepsus24 24 күн бұрын

Is Savathun really evil after her rebirth? No

@501sttrooperbmc2 Ай бұрын

Tell that to the Praxic Order fanatics and see how that foes.

@billbobert Ай бұрын

Savathun isn’t evil

@rxoopsie2600 Ай бұрын

"the guy from fortnite" - some 4 year old

@Charlie_luv_UwU Ай бұрын

Its comparable to a hammer and an axe

@cryptisi5363 23 күн бұрын

Im gonna be real, i dont think anybody can be considered "Good" as a faction in Destiny

@bobbytrillionaire Ай бұрын

Like anything it’s all about who uses it

@japexican007 20 күн бұрын

Just like Satan who claims truth and twists it for his purpose so too does he wish for you to see “good” and “evil” as merely subjective, sadly God is all good or pure goodness and we are beings with the propensity to do that which is good but we’re slaves to sin or darkness

@Jeerin_ Ай бұрын

Strand isn’t dark it’s just a power

@garrettviewegh9028 Ай бұрын

Can’t help but wonder if we’ll see the final/third darkness element. There’s three light subclasses.. Destiny deals in themes of symmetry.

@raezor6941 Ай бұрын

I think it's best to describe it as this: it can be a Darkness power, not because it's a "subclass", but because it's a concept of the metaphysical. The Light is a representation of the physical reality-- Solar, fire and the Sun, Arc, lighting and electrical energy, Void, Space and gravity. It takes strength to wield the Light. Darkness is the power of thought. Stasis, entrapment and temptation, Strand, the web and instinct of the universe. We think when we wield Strand. The Darkness, in canon, is as potent as our mind is. That's what I think anyway. TL DR, big brain = big green silly string = Darkness power

@odysseus-hq6qq 13 күн бұрын

Light and dark isn't the same from star wars

@zwojack7285 Ай бұрын

But is Savathun really evil?

@ryze2499 20 күн бұрын

Tbh I don’t think this really proves the point. Yes each side is using the power of the opposite side, but you’re not gonna see The Witness use the Light. Why? Because he’s evil

@Ediicius 25 күн бұрын

its not that complex. its perspective.

@zaydagreat1500 22 күн бұрын

The lore is fucked and this expansion did it I apologize for the profanity but I love lore and hate an incomplete lore

@liquidwolf5943 Ай бұрын

Yes powers are inherently neutral, but darkness powers still hold the winnower traits. While light powers hold gardener traits. The real question? Is the Traveler good? Is the Witness evil?

@kyleespinoza7201 Ай бұрын

The Traveler is doing the best it can to be as careful as it can. Terraforming lifeless rocks into garden worlds, uplifting civilizations with technology but not trying to impose an ideology or dogma. It's actions, in of themselves, have either been harmless or beneficial to those it interacts with. The Witness is trying to calcify the entire universe, along with every life form in it, into a single moment for all eternity, then cut it up into some avant garde art piece for itself. If you try to stop it, if you simply disagree, it or any number of its followers will butcher you. Unless you're insane, that's pretty evil by practically any definition.