this is a big thanks from me, i am no expert on electrics but discovered this video via one of you books. i have been very frustrated by small steam locos stalling at some of my points i have now adapted my points using your method and i am sooo grateful, locos now run through all my points without stalling. thank you , thank you keith

"Frogs are green". I like that little tip for wiring. Thanks Larry.

Thank you so much Larry, you're a lifesaver. I had so much trouble with my Peco points until I came across your solution. Loco's go through now without a problem. Thanks again Larry.

Thanks Larry. First time I have understood why we should modify these points: because of the probability of a poor contact between the live rail and the blade of the switch. Very neatly done.

Like the idea for wiring the points. Wish I knew that before I built my layout. As you say would have saved me a lot of soldering and wiring. Will definitely use it in the future.

Thanks Larry I learned something new every time I watch 1 of your videos

Nice one Mr. P. Like the idea of making the cut on the outside of the frog. Effectively makes the point a “unifrog”. Bonus as well is no insulating fishplates which tend to be quite visible. Think I’ll go with the existing break sections and tie to the stock rails. Just means a little less to modify. Excellent idea.

Larry; thanks for work on these videos giving me concepts to try as I rebuild my railroad. In rebuilding I'm doing many firsts; e.g. foam base, tortoise machines and Peco turnouts. As info though, what I found is the gaps that you point out at about the 3:50 mark then again at about 15:30 of the video do not exist now on either the short radius turnouts or the wyes. I'm not inclined to mess with cutting away any of the ties in fear of damaging the structural integrity of the turnout. A minor challenge but not something that cannot be overcome. Again, thank you for all of the great info that you share enabling me to improve upon my operations. Cheers.

Nice to have good information making the turn out built proof. Thanks

Great job.. thanks for sharing and keep up the great work.. Lance

Hi doses this concept work still if I’m not using switch machines but instead use caboose industries manual switches and what would I do differently

Great video and explanation. A simple question though. I noticed you kept the jumpers in across the factory cut for the frog and then dremeled closer to the frog. Electrically it looks like where the factory jumper is installed, and left intact is the same as where you cut. Is your reasoning just to shorten the frog rail area?

Hello Larry, I have a PECO scissor turnout and I'm wondering if I can set it up so that a single throw will change all four points. If I can do that, then all four IN should enable two trains to pass through in parallel and all four OUT should enable a single train to cross over between inside and outside loops. (My first track - it will be DCC) - Ray

Larry on the PECO electro frog video do you remove the two smal jumper wire? To make the cut modifications you demonstrated? Plus I have four electro frogs #4 small radius but they are not made the same as the #6 or #8. Will the small radius turnouts, looks as if they would not require the the cut in front of the frog as the med and large radius?

👍👍👍 Excellent Larry

Larry, thanks for your help with understanding DCC. I have 3 parallel tracks that are going to go through a tunnel. Each track is a different power district and they have their own circuit breaker. In order to go through the tunnel I am going to use turnouts to combine two of the tracks. I have a peco insulfrog turnout on one side of the tunnel and a curved electro frog turnout on the other side of the tunnel to separate the tracks I just joined. Does it matter if you use different types of turnouts? Also I assume my NCE Power Pro DCC will be able to handle this brief joining of 2 power districts? I am going to use bluepoint machines to throw the turnouts. Thanks again for all your time and sharing your knowledge.

Hi Larry. At 6:48 you talk about the small wire that will go to the switch. Is that a wire provided by Peco or did you put that in yourself? At 14:50 you talk about adding a new jumper but I am not sure why that jumper is needed. You said that the frog (after the cuts) is independently powered by that wire. So, what is the purpose of the jumper?

Dear, the turnout conversion detail is interesting, however it was not clear to me how the two interior tracks, which remain between the cuts made, are electrically powered. Sorry but English is not my native language. greetings

Larry, I'm just returning to model railroading after a decade hiatus, this time using N scale. I just ordered a handful of PECO Code 55 electrofrog turnouts (as Unifrog were unavailable). They appear to be fundamentally different from HO turnouts. As I examine my turnouts, the only jumper I see is one that runs across the two sections of the frog (and the frog wire which I'd use to power the frog is missing). When I look for spots to power the closure rails from the stock rails those spots are missing as well, with the only place large enough to put a drop of solder being directly under the hinges. Am I pretty much doomed to use this use these turnouts "as is" and install insulated joiners on the 2 rails coming from the frog?

have i missed something, where is the wiring for the points and switch?

Well done! My only question is what do you do with the frog wire if you don't plan to use switch machines? I'd like to use ground throws instead as I will have 3 of these on a long siding and spur.

Does peco track work with bachmann track? Because my turnouts have plastic frog and my 0-6-0 stalls so I need a powered frog, so does peco connect with bachmann track

Using Peco SL-E88's and SL-89's for crossovers with Walthers switch machines. Do I need to follow the installation instructions that came with Walthers switches to install the Peco's?

With AC current you have to be concerned about polarity. That is why I'm Markin user.

Hi Larry, I started to setup my train layout that has been in storage for about 15-20 years in my basement. (shelf basement) the concrete shelf around the basement comes up about 42-48" so part of the bench work is laying on top of concrete in those areas for the turnouts I was thinking the old atlas surface mounted turnout motors? I'm trying to change over to DCC thoughts.

Hi Thank You for the video...quick questions... Do I have to modify the electro frog with a dremel cut if I just want to use a push rod system for my rail yard and not a controller? And power the electro frog normal as designed on the instructions? Or will that cause a Short during ops session in my rail yard? Finally which video Number shows your completing the push-rod switch system? Please advise. I have learned so much but just have some questions? Thank You Kindly

Hi Larry~ I’ve enjoyed all your turnout videos, so thank you for them. I’m building a small shelf layout (18” x 10’), and the Peco Code 75 Electrofrogs are what I’m leaning towards. But because of space, it is their Short (or Small) turnouts that will work best for me, though I might be able to use the Mediums. And I am converting these to DCC as per your video. My question is this. Because of the nature of the Short turnouts, the hinged point rails connect to the closure rails fairly close to the frog; and in order to solder jumpers between the stock rails and the closure rails, I will have to do so above the point hinges as opposed to below, as you did in this video. Will that make a difference? Or do I need to come at this another way. Thanks. ~Brian

Thanks for the video. some people seem to suggest not to glue down the points, so if they go wrong they can be easily replaced. what do you think?

Larry, what is the brand of adhesive you use in this video ? Also, which tube (type) do you recommend ? Thanks, Joel

OK, what is the big disadvantage of using the stock Electrofrog? My first layout in 45 years and this gets more confusing as I research and watch MRR channels. I have 6 turnouts and I don't want to or look forward to doing all that with the chance of screwing up.

Hi Larry, another question: if I have a set of turnouts facing each other to form a cross over and modify Peco turnouts as you suggest, do I still need to use rail insulators on both rails where the cross overs meet or, must metal joiners be used to provide power to this short section of track between the frogs? Thanks!

Hi Larry, Im guessing where you have soldered the wire across the two rails, each of these could be made into dropper wires instead on depending on the rail joiners to provide power from adjoing track?

I like your videos but how would you hook up the frog to a digital cobalt machine

Do the Peco Unifrog Turnouts incorporate the modifications which you make to the Electrofrong turnouts?

Regarding noise of the switch machines, I can no longer find the original comment. You were saying "That is one of the biggest complaints I hear about motorized switch machines and snap switch machines. In the end the quietest method is to leave the" and then the notification text got cut off; guess you-tube only sends a small snippet, but I'd like to know the rest of your thoughts still.

Hello can I use these methods in peco n scale turnouts?

Hi Larry - have you ever had any issue with the Sharpie markers coming through your paint or other scenery materials? I feel like Rons Trains N Things had a video once advising against permanent markers.

Question does this also work with peco coode 55 ,n scale

What would you recommend (for DCC) Larry if you're hand throwing the points on a turnout (ground throw, or other manual method, etc). Thanks.....Very nice video also. Philip

Larry, thank you for a nice tutorial. What is the dimension of your Dremel cutter disc? Item number?

Peco has a new turnout called unifrog. it looks like the changes you make for DCC have been incorporated in this new switch. Is that correct?

Sir, which radius turnouts are recommended for Bachmann Santa Fe 2-10-4 HO scale loco

I use the method from Peco which has always worked fine for me. I still don't understand what you achieved doing it your way other than creating a smaller frog as well as not having to use insulted rail joiners on the two inner rails that exit the frog??? I actually watched the video out of interest to see if there was some advantage to what you were going to do but I did I miss something?

Hey Larry, I really appreciate the in depth videos. The peco electrofrog packaging says no modification needed for DCC layouts but its not very clear. Am I correct in saying if you don't modify the switch its DCC friendly, but it is power routing only and if modified the way you showed, its all live and "more" dcc friendly?

Good day Larry P. I would like to have your support for my request, I am new for the DCC System so, I have equation regarding the wiring diagram of DCC deffernt from DC. Can I use the insulated plastic rail joiners for each additional terminal sections. Like I am using it for making a Freight House Tracks by using the No 4 LADDER SCTION as per the ATLAS BOOK 11 page 47. Because I am going to use the Layout HO-13 (SIMPLE OVAL WITH SPURS), from ATALS HO Layouts FOR EVERY SPACE , Book#11 page #20. Please your advice to me. Best regards, AALWABIL

What is your opinion about painting rail and turnouts prior to installing?

The polarity of the switch core changes according to the position

Hi Larry - Great video. Have you looked at Peco Uni-Frog switches? Peco will be replacing the current range of Electrofrog and Insulfrog switches with these and they are set up like the mod you made to your Electrofrog switch. This way they are already compatible with both DC and DCC layouts, and you do not have to use the Dremel on the track.

Hi Larry, if you cut the top (T piece) of the pin, you can locate the centre point then lift the point right off, leaving the pin in place. No guess work as to where the pin hole is. Hope that helps?

How long do you wait for the Liquid Nails for Projects to set before resuming work? Thanks - Great videos and I am learning so much that would normally take lots of experience (and mistakes) to gain.

I am new to this hobby, I’ve been watching your videos and even bought your book on wiring.I’ve downloaded anyrail 6 the problem is I don’t know what company to go with, seems like every thing is hard to find. I’d like to use peco or micro engineering, can you mix and match track, and I’d like either N or HO scale, any suggestions would be appreciated.thank you

the new ones they sell that say DCC friendly, do they need this mod as well ?

Why not cut the factory jumpers and you dont have to cut the rails on one end??? Your cutting the rail when all you had to do was cut the factory jumpers. I don't understand.

Great video Larry perfect timing , I am currently installing these peco electro and insulated frogs on my lay out. . If I wire my layout DCC friendly, will this also be acceptable to run my trains in DC mode ? As I plan to switch it back-and-forth from DCC to DC , with a double pole double throw switch. Thanks

I don't know why it is so hard to just use insulated rail joiners on those frog rails. I've never had any problem with using them. I love my electrofrog turnouts almost as much as I love my walthers turnouts. I never remove the over-center springs of the electrofrog turnouts.

A question for you Why do you cut the wire joining the stock to the point rail. This wire can be left long so that it can be fed under the layout board to supply either the power or can be used to power a point juicer.

What size turnouts are you using?

I was told that the electrofrog and Insulfrog are being replaced with their new Unifrog concept. They don't have a lot of technical info on it. Can you do a video using the Unifrog turnouts, since this will be the future of their turnouts. Thanks,

I was wondering if you might be doing any videos on installing atlas flex track,, code 83? I haven’t Found any good vids on that

Why not use a Peco Insulfrog turnout?

why not use copper wire ?????

In regards to fundamental electrical considerations you aren't doing anything different to what Peco recommends for an all-live turnout. All you are doing is effectively shortening the frog section. As far as I can see the only benefit to this is not having to solder any feeders to the turnout stock rails which is important if you aren't very good at soldering and you ever have to remove and re-locate a turnout. In the end though it seems like a lot of work to avoid a couple of simple solder joints to me. I've never liked the fine frog power wire on Peco Electrofrogs. As you illustrate it's a pain to accurately locate the hole to feed the wire down and soldering to it is never fun. I simply solder a 22 g wire to the frog section in a location that is not seen from normal viewing angles and feel that it is a more secure and robust feeder. And there is no way it can affect track alignment if the hole is slightly off. Those switch machines look pretty robust and simple and would be especially useful on a DCC "transition layout" where DCC is one "throttle" on a layout that also runs dc locomotives. There are still a few out there that do this as some modelers have too many locos to convert all at once. For straight dcc layouts, I have had great success with Tam Valley Depot's frog juicers which are essentially bulletproof and require no operator input after installation

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