Intelligent Octopus STOPS First Car but Who's Next?

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Күн бұрын

API support for Intelligent Octopus Go dropped for one car, what this could mean going forward for other car brands brings back the important question which is who pays for the API data for car companies there are server costs but also data sims involved and is it just a better solution to buy a supported charger! I also have a prediction on who I think the next car company could be to drop API support from Octopus Intelligent and what that may look like going forward SPOILER ALERT Tesla Energy is not a registered energy company.
00:00 Pick The Right EV Charger NOW
00:37 Ovo Anytime & Octopus Intelligent Go
01:45 I Predicted This Could Happen Previously
02:04 Octopus emailing affected customers
02:51 Affected Brand is Ford Mustang Mach-E
03:55 Offical Ford Right To Reply
04:48 How Octopus API With Intelligent Works
05:52 Who Should Pay for the Data?
06:48 What Could OEM's Do To Carry on Support?
07:40 Who is the next car brand to block Octopus Intelligent?
09:00 Doesn't Get Along with batteries
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@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

UPDATE 06/03/24 Ford is back however JLR stopped support for its cars! With some luck Ford UK will have mustang E customers back online however it does raise the question was the reason it stopped working due to the T&C change and whats stopping this happening again to any other car brand, Please see fords official right to reply below.... If your wanting to find a charger go to evnick.com/charge or to join octopus and split £100 go to evnick.com/energy Also worth noting looks like issue has been resolved from lastest mach-e forum posts www.macheforum.com/site/threads/locked-out-of-fordpass.31196/page-2 however could this happen again to ford or Tesla as video suggests? We are aware that some Mustang Mach-E customers are experiencing issues with the integration of FordPass with the Intelligent Octopus tariff. Ford is working closely with Octopus to provide a solution, and we understand this is frustrating for our customers. We expect to resolve this early next year. In the meantime, Octopus is emailing affected customers to request further information in order to connect them and ensure their FordPass access is unrestricted. If a customer requires assistance with this process, they can contact Ford FordPass in the account/help section or on 01277 254745

@malcolmfowler8972 6 ай бұрын

Also having a charger that supports Intelligent Octopus means when you change your EV it doesn't matter which EV you buy. You will still be able to use Intelligent Octopus tariff.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

100%

@iainmalcolm1 6 ай бұрын

Not currently the case with Octopus, the charger / car combo hass to be supported

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

@@iainmalcolm1 you don’t need car to support it if your charger does

@shaunhw 5 ай бұрын

We have Kia Niro EV (2022/2023 version)- once supported by Intelligent Octopus (IO) but no longer, due to 12V battery draining issues that couldn't be resolved. This was a problem because of the multiple start/stop charging patterns of IO. We have Zappi on beta IO which works extremely well. However any car still has to support multiple start/stop patterns of charging equipment without error, rather than a single start once/stop once pattern normally used on a dumb charge session. The Kia Niro EV seems to be OK with these multiple start/stop overnight charging fortunately.

@thelaserhive3368 6 ай бұрын

Well foreseen. My Mini PHEV is nominally supported by API but often this simply doesn't communicate well ( recently it's got more flaky). Fortunately I have Ohme and so the communication issues with the Mini PHEV can be easily worked around and still work with IO Go.

@johnwinters4201 6 ай бұрын

Having Intelligent Octopus Go talk to the car rather than the EVSE was always a frig - an architecturally incorrect solution to getting something up and running with what was actually available. Had Octopus waited until they could build it properly they could have missed their opportunity to get into the market. The car is not invariably connected to Octopus's power supply. It might charge at home; it might charge elsewhere. This means that another frig is needed to be layered on top of the initial frig (of having IOG talk direct to the car) of using the car's GPS to try to tell where the car is charging. The correct place to put the control has always been in the EVSE, but that then needs some more infrastructure which isn't really there yet. The EVSE is permanently (or at least, semi-permanently) connected to Octopus's supply and once Octopus are controlling it can potentially be used to charge any EV which is plugged into it. What's missing from this approach is a tiny bit of data communication across the type 2 interface to allow the EVSE to query the charger in the car and discover a) how big the car's battery is and b) how full it is. For now they're moving forward without that (e.g. with the Zappi) but whilst the Zappi integration is much better than any car integration in most ways it does fall down on the lack of that little data communication. Once data-across-type-2 is a thing, direct integrations between EV and the likes of Intelligent Octopus Go will disappear entirely.

@grahamleiper1538 6 ай бұрын

Literally just got the ethernet adaptor for my older Zappi2 (would lose wireless connection occasionally) before I signed up to intelligent Octopus purely because I didn't want to give car API access (car would always be wireless with potentially dodgy comms and constantly being woken up). Happy so far, but you do need to remember to tell Octopus how much to top up if it's more than about 30% as the charger doesn't see what the battery SoC is.

@michaeldawson6309 6 ай бұрын

What happens then if our wall charger is not on the Intelligent list? I would have thought that the API between Octopus and the Car would work like setting the car to charge at say a set time which we can do via the OEM car app. Thus the API is working with the OEM charge timer to switch it on and off .. is this correct? So why does the wall box need to be compatible? If the wall box is dumb like mine is my car charges when I set the time on the BMW i3 app to say charge between these hours. I do not need any intelligent box for that to work.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

Car manufacturers allowing api access it’s guaranteed and could change that’s why I advise pick a compatible charger from the start however many legacy owners won’t have this choice if your charger needs replacing in future just bear this in mind

@thelaserhive3368 6 ай бұрын

The whole deal with IO is that Octopus control when the car will charge ( and that you get the cheap rates when it is charging - plus during the guaranteed period of 23.30-5.30 whether charging or not). This means you must not set a fixed charge schedule within the car API, as you let IO ‘ do it’s thing’. If you don’t have a compatible charger then you are relying on the car manufacturer API allowing full IO access. If you have a compatible charger such as Ohme then it’ll work regardless of car compatibility.

@MacCraig8 6 ай бұрын

I got an email from octopus months ago asking for some details and had absolutely no downtime with a mach e. So Octopus were really on the ball on this one. Only using the car api as ive got a newly wired house and its charging 2kw from the garage which has its own consumer unit and breaker. We dont use enough daily miles to need a 7kw immediately but it's on the cards in the long run. Fun fact though octopus regularly starts my 7.5p smart charges at like 6pm due to the slower charging, which is great for the house usage too!

@iainmalcolm1 6 ай бұрын

I am using givenergy batteries and mytenergi zappi chargers with an MG5 car. The car is incredibly basic in the charging department - no schedule capability. I use a program running on a raspberry pi to schedule battery charge and discharge times (to 1/2 hour slots to match octopus agile) and also to schedule car charging to fit with cheapest rates. The only annoying bit atm is that the charger API does not allow the car's SOC to be read, so deciding how much time is needed to charge to reach a given soc is eyeball and hand for now. (There are software packages that run in home assistant that can also do some of this.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

I wouldn't worry too much about charging car up to what ever % I did a video with Dr Euan McTurk who explains the risks and non risks better if you want to look it up.

@kcebliks 6 ай бұрын

I wonder if this will end up applying to brands whos app talks to the EVSE, e.g. BMW/Mini or is this all done at app level on your phone, i.e. the EVSE app reads the state of charge from your Car app directly and then the EVSE talks with Octopus, so there is no data link between the car and octopus. It must still cost the car company more data though, as when our Mini is being charged it sends us a notification everytime our Ohme pauses the charging.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

Your likely see APPs from all OEM have a FREE use period of a few years and then a fee to pay for access, some brands already do this

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

PS worth noting OHME doesn't need to talk to cars app for it to work on intelligent

@user-ww7hk1rz8p 6 ай бұрын

Thanks for the video. What happens when you get allocated additional hours and the car reaches full before the end of the allocated slot - Does your house still get cheap rate for the rest of the charging schedule slot that the car is no longer charging ? I notice if you leave the car plugged in, the allocated charge schedules are still there, even though the car is full. Just wondering what happens with the kWHr rate for the rest of the house in that instance.

@NicolasRaimo 5 ай бұрын

car and house only get cheap rate when car is charging under offical t&c meaning if car gets full it goes to full rate even if hours were allocated, however theres a bug on zappi meaning there getting the lot currently

@garymendham 6 ай бұрын

I have a Tesla 3 with a Zappi charger and the "Intelligent Octopus" was a nightmare. The car was constantly being "woken up" whilst plugged in, leading to significant unnecessary battery drain and sometimes the car did not charge as instructed. Octopus overrides the Tesla charge level set by the owner which is disastrous if a full overnight charge is planned for a long trip early the next day. I awoke on two occasions to find the car only charged to 60% when 100% was set. I had no choice but to use an en-route Tesla rapid charger. Tesla refused point blank to answer whether 3rd party access to their API is allowed but the insurance companies were much more clear. Giving Octopus your login and password so the Tesla API can be accessed by Octopus is an "illegal modification" as far as they were concerned and that invalidates your policy. I can sort of see their point. Your 2 ton car travelling at 70 mph can "theoretically" be controlled by a third party who has been given access to the car's software by the owner and not the manufacturer? Whole area is a legal minefield and I expect other manufacturers will pull out just like Ford. I left Octopus "Intelligent" and went back to "Go". No problems since.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

assume you have zappi now controlling octopus intelligent hours rather than tesla? Which model do you have by the way?

@chrismarsh4733 6 ай бұрын

This has been resolved. It was Ford that stopped the access and this was months ago. They have sorted the problem and it’s now back and running.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

Hey Chris is the pin'd post I put a link about it being now sorted, however video still stands that it happened and will it happen again! Thanks for prompting me to add this to pin post

@barriepotter3753 6 ай бұрын

Not happy with Octopus. I’ve been asking for a smart meter regularly for the last 5 years and keep getting told there’re no fitters in my area. But last February one of my neighbours received a smart meter, which I found out about after the event. Why, when they had a fitter in my area, did they not put two & two together and see who else was asking for a meter? It seems they have left and right hands that have no idea what each are doing. How is this possible in the 21st century? Why do I, and some others around here, keep getting fobbed off?

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

Have you tried rising this to a complaint? maybe drop an email to Greg Jackson directly or he often replies on twitter feel free to tag me in also

@Warekiwi 6 ай бұрын

Best way to fix this is to move your account to another company like EDF(for example) , order a smart meter and once this starts working (gets an MPAN) then shift to OI . Of course don't shift initially to any tariff with exit fees for that temporary shift!) I've just had EDF install a smart meter after they DIUBLED their off peak rates and it took only 7 days from request. Hopefully the new meter should go online within another week or so and THEN I'll shift to OI ( or perhaps another ev tariff if it's better)

@colinnich 6 ай бұрын

Your title suggests that Octopus dropped support, but from what you said, it's the car manufacturer's decision

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

Hey Colin titles have limited retail space Its hard to get as much as this info in less than 60 characters (sometimes even 50) to show people what a video is about but also appealing for people to watch. As video suggest its neither octopus or OEM's fault its more to do with who pays for this data long term.

@BlackAndDeckerBoy 6 ай бұрын

IO tariff applies even if you don’t use the App to trigger the charger. So just set up manually to charge for the 6 hours. You still get the IO rate and same amount of KWh

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

IO requires your car or charger to support it and under terms for a SMART charge to be scheduled if your car support is dropped you can't have the deal anymore.... Ford have now allowed all Mach-e customer back and octopus have moved these customers back to IO now

@BlackAndDeckerBoy 6 ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo I’ve had a compatible car but had to manually schedule for past 6 months due an unfathomable glitch in the matrix meaning IO App schedule didn’t work. I disabled smart charging in my device settings. I still get the IO rate for 6 hours overnight.

@choshun8 6 ай бұрын

⁠@@NicolasRaimoIf your charger is supported then in theory your car shouldn’t matter but when I was signing up, they asked for my car make and model and said that it’s okay as it’s on their list leading me to think that you need both but don’t have to use the cars api. I have an ohme and have also connected the car to it which changes the way you charge. It originally would put in the charge requested e.g 80% regardless of your battery’s state of charge. With the car connected, it schedules a charge for you car battery so it charges the battery to 80%(if that makes sense)and also schedules a charge so occasionally turns off and on again. A slight issue occurred when the charger lost the connection with the car and started charging immediately when plugged in. I don’t know if this would have happened if the car api wasn’t connected

@The70s80scollection 2 ай бұрын

My wife and I have 2 EV's, between us, a Fiat 500e (not IO supported) and a Jaguar I-Pace, the Jaguar "was" supported by Intelligent Octopus until March 2024, I ended up moving to E-On, they offer a Drive tariff 7 hours (midnight till 7am) at 8p per kWh, I get 53% battery charge through the night for just over £4 or around 125miles range for £4. result!!!.

@trevorbromley-palmer 6 ай бұрын

I currently have a Tesla M3 and use Octopus Intelligent with my Andersen A2 wall charger. If I change to a non Tesla, I will have to pay £1000 to have my fully working Andersen A2 ripped out and replaced with a pig ugly Ohme charger. A total waste of money and time. I bought an Andersen A2 because it is neat and tidy with integrated cable management. I have emailed Octopus a number of times asking them to work with Andersen to make their A2 charger compatible with the Intelligent tariff, but that seems to be unlikely.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

Speak to the owners of Andersen it’s up to them to put the effort in also octopus can’t make a company work with them if they don’t want to sadly octopus will favour firms with more customers over smaller ones so for example Ohme had most octopus customers and so on… but it requires the charger firm to ask and do a lot of internal work to work

@Cheradanine 6 ай бұрын

I'm in the same boat. The chances of the Andersen supporting IO are minimal as the API is closed.

@ianjMcKinley 6 ай бұрын

I chose a Zappi charger as I wanted to divert solar as well as get intelegent octopus. Works very well for both.

@NicolasRaimo 5 ай бұрын

see my video on why you shouldn't be charging your car with your solar anymore

@damiendye6623 6 ай бұрын

The api doesnt habe to use polling. The for system can talk to octopus on connection.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

Still costs on sending data to the car and the connection

@shaunhw 5 ай бұрын

Going forward the manufactures of EV's really ought to provide some form of simple, but secure direct customer remote access, to control the vehicle charging and other functions without having to rely on their network infrastructure and sim cards for mobile networks (which won't work everywhere anyway) for example via a wifi client which can communicate with the customer's router or an optional plug in dongle for this. Charging equipment manufacturers could add optional ethernet connected wifi access point to their devices to assist with this or provide the whole functionality inside the charging point. Also, it ought to be possible for owners of these to run available server software of their own locally, to control charging point start/stop sessions if the customer wants to do that. In this way people would not be dependent on anyone else's network infrastructure but their own, and that of their energy provider. There are too many cases of manufacturers dropping support for internet connected devices, (remember Anderson, and various network based security cameras which became unusable) and legal requirements should be imposed to allow any network connected devices to continue to function as expected, independently of any of their manufacturers infrastructure.

@TrickyTree84 6 ай бұрын

Looking at a Tesla and I want the hypervolt, Purley because it looks nice nd is half the price of the Andersen. I was banking on the car for the API access

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

My advise is not to bank on cars API, however, I feel a company like Tesla would likely be smart enough to SELL access to its API they can also help lower costs by saying API access ONLY if you're on wifi. I'm of the mindset if you change from a Tesla to another car it be nice to keep the cheap electric so the charger wins

@TrickyTree84 6 ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo tbh I'm fairly competent at electrics. I'd be comfortable swapping an EV charger as long as the supply stuff is all done. Hopefully hypervolt will add Octopus support anyway, there is API access for the consumer at no cost

@rolandrohde 6 ай бұрын

The problem is that Chargers alo have an API...and that might also lose support. Also, charger API is ofter quite limited over car API... The only safe variant would be having a system with a local API.

@jsouto77 6 ай бұрын

Yes but the chargers have a constant stream of prepaid internet. Also worthy of note is that chargers that use OCPP protocol (such as wallbox) to connect to octopus, are directly connected to their system with no api queries. What limitations do you speak of by the way?

@rolandrohde 6 ай бұрын

@@jsouto77 Mainly the available Amp settings. Most Wallboxes I know of don't allow you to go lower than 5 or 5 amps. When solar charging, having the ability to go all the way down to 1 amp via the Tesla API allows more flexible charging when solar yield is fluctuating. Some Wallboxes can mitigate that by automatically switching between 1 and 3 Phase charging though...but not all of them.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

Octopus Intelligent can pretty much take over the charger's control on OCPP it's why some chargers are in full control in the Octopus app, not the original app. Regarding solar you should see this VIDEO kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gct3dcmk3ZbIYJc.html it basically explains your NUTS for using your solar in your car. Many EV chargers have the solar matching ability built in the reason for not going below 5amps is that MOST cars can't charge lower than that, no reason u can't also set your Tesla app to that if you really wanted to but be honest as per the video above I wouldn't be wasting solar into my car or my storage battery

@rolandrohde 6 ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo For me, it's ideal since I only get peanuts for solar I sell to the grid and electricity is pretty expensive. I know the UK sometimes has pretty cheap electricity, but we don't. So if I can charge my car for free (or rather for 8ct/kWh which is what I get if I sell to the grid) then that's a really good deal for me.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

@@rolandrohde ahh fair enough here we get import for 7.5p overnight and export at 15p so makes more sense to export than use. Lots of chargers here can be setup with CT clamps to monitor solar and house loads to balance EV charging to have zero import or export

@martinwray7001 6 ай бұрын

Will intelligent ever support podpoint chargers? Its a difficult exercise in man maths just to swap the charger for an ohme, but it would be even worse if I swapped the charger and octopus suddenly decided to support podpoint.

@leejonesNPT 6 ай бұрын

I have a Podpoint charger on Octopus go and charge with no issues on the Intelligent Go schedule overnight.

@martinwray7001 6 ай бұрын

@@leejonesNPT then it's your car that's linked to OI? Podpoint can't do the switching and neither can my 2019 Kona, so I'm stuck on the standard 9p Go tariff.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

Highly unlikely podpoint will be supported it’s not in the lists I’ve seen but never say never, it’s down to podpoint to ask octopus rather than octopus to ask podpoint

@martinwray7001 6 ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo to be fair to podpoint, they say they're looking into it, but that could just be pr damage limitation.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

@@martinwray7001any firm not saying they are looking into it won’t exist the future of EV chargers is supporting deals like this

@daviddunmore7076 6 ай бұрын

It's just mad for the car to communicate with the charger via the mobile network and OEM servers/Octopus servers. why not have a direct data link between the car and the charger (USB anyone?)

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

Type 2 can't talk to charger, CCS can we might see this all change in future as we go v2g

@terrymackenzie6784 6 ай бұрын

Not only does an integration with the charger enable you to support two cars (with a little bit of metal maths) but going forward we will see V2G/V2H this will all be done with the charger

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

Worth noting current hardware aka charger wont support this though

@terrymackenzie6784 6 ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo yes I know, and nothing available at the moment for CCS.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

@@terrymackenzie6784 some cars will be doing AC v2g ;)

@rammisinghxx 6 ай бұрын

Is there a link to this announcement from Octopus?

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

No, I first saw it on twitter and asked ford for official response which is one I posted

@rammisinghxx 6 ай бұрын

@NicolasRaimo the support hasn't been dropped. I just plugged in my Mach E and I'm getting smart charge slots. I had to email Octopus my Ford Pass email account 1 month ago and I haven't had an issue after that. That's what they mean by "further information ". There is a link to the form listed on FP Communuty Ford forums.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

@@rammisinghxx As per my video its being resolved, it looks like that's not taken affect and everyone's being brought back online to fordpass however as video allures it could happen again to another car

@MrGreedyboyuk 5 ай бұрын

VW also chasing revenue & announced the end of many of the free OTA services that came with vehicles before. I don't know how well VW EVs play with Octopus?

@v8trauma 6 ай бұрын

Bought a kia, eventually got on IO, now octopus won't play with Kia. Octopus asked me to unpair because we had issues, then start the pairing again. However they stopped kia support. Simpson cant get octopus to release the api to them. All very annoying.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

For octopus IO to work it requires the charger firm and octopus to do a lot of behind the scenes work as octopus have a limited amount of staff to work on these special projects they allocate resources to ensure the MOST effected customers get IO first so the bigger the charger firm with octopus customer the more likely your charger firm will be next.

@v8trauma 6 ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo Oh I get that, Simpson were given the keys to the city on all the other octopus tariffs, but not IO. Which they can't understand. The bigger issue is the Kia fallout, it's rather a big sector of the market as you're well aware.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

@@v8trauma other octopus deals are open api work differently to intelligent… intelligent octopus want to control the charger without Simpson getting involved in the middle it’s a lot more complex

@v8trauma 6 ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo I spent a long time going over it with the Simpson software guy and they were rebuffed. Cthulhu wasn't prepared to let them have access to the API. It's simple enough to execute if you have the info. Simpson is ready to go, but can't get an invite and no one is telling them why. So not as complex as you've been led to believe. I wish I'd waited a couple of months and bought an approved 22kw. As for Kia, I've heard so many different stories, but the most plausible is the aux battery quality and the BMS parameters. Cthulhu polling the car repeatedly isn't making the cars look too good. I suppose the minimal data allocated to each car by Vodafone hasn't been mentioned but can't be helping.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

@@v8trauma Its not as simple as your being led to believe Myenergi took months of testing both ways to make the final version work it was in beta for months, Octopus also need to steady roll each new charger firm in order of customer base biggest first, they need to ensure the enrolling process doesn't break anything when the customers come on broad

@MattyFreedom 6 ай бұрын

Technology is great, until it becomes obsolete and unwanted by the maker or other services that use it. Integrating technology into everything may have a load of benefits, but you are also going to be under pressure to maintain, update and change anything with tech integrated in it on an ongoing basis. I wonder if half of the companies that provide inverters with software that relies on their servers will be still around in a few years and if they are, will they support your "old" inverter anything beyond the guarantee period? Same goes for chargers. When you look at USB, Lightning connectors etc, you know EV chargers will have new standards in the future, so everyone will be under constant pressure to constantly update and upgrade everything in their lives.

@iainmalcolm1 6 ай бұрын

WTF don't cars support wifi access? Great for folks in mobile blackspots and reduces costs for the manufacturer

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

Would still use API and car servers… long term it’s going to be chargers over cars as ocotpus take control of all servers then

@thisisnumber0 4 ай бұрын

Ahhhh.......the joy of petrol and diesel😂

@NicolasRaimo 4 ай бұрын

2p a mile… and cheaper electricity for my household ahhh the benefits you don’t understand

@thisisnumber0 4 ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo 700 miles in a day, home for 8 hours, straight into 400 next day. Keep up with that in your milk float, smartarse😛 I can't stand breaking a journey, must make progress all the time and I've been doing that for 60 years. Used to drive all over Europe from Portugal to Croatia on holiday and loved it. Your stop, start, pee, fart and repeat "progress" is a right royal pain in the arse and I'm not in danger of experiencing my very own personal funeral pyre on the road. No, don't give a toss about your perceived benefits, I shall continue to roam freely without all that EV faff.

@nheather 6 ай бұрын

And you know the reason why they want chargers to identify what electricity is being used to charge EVs don’t you - just wait for it, in the not too-distant future it will be so the government can apply full rate VAT and duty to make up for the 65% taxes they are losing on petrol and diesel.

@grahamleiper1538 6 ай бұрын

And the instant that happens we just unplug our smart chargers from the internet.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

They don't neeed to do that... they can just use the cars data or even data from MOT every year why add complexity

@nheather 6 ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo Maybe you are not British so don’t understand how tax works in the UK. UK has a standard rate VAT (sales tax) of 20%, but household electricity is taxed at a special rate of 5%. That means if you charge your EV at home then you only pay 5% tax. But public chargers are treated as a business so can’t use the special rate and must charge the full VAT of 20%, you also pay profits to the company that runs the charger and ultimately it would be easy for the government to add additional taxes in line with what is levied on petrol and diesel to those. But domestic electricity is more complicated because they would need a way of separating what is used to charge the EV and what is used to run the house. Okay, you suggest using data from MOTs. Firstly, in the UK you only start doing MOTs once the car is three years old - so how would your suggestion work before that. Secondly, an MOT will tell you how many miles have been done, and I agree that could be used to calculate some form of tax, but what if you sell your car mid year. And would you propose that the owner gets charged a full year’s worth of tax in one go. Thirdly, the mileage won’t tell you how much charging has been done on 5% tax and how much has been done using public chargers at 20% tax.

@ScotmanUK2000 6 ай бұрын

Jesus! This is complicated. Think I'll stick to petrol. At least its "plug and play"😂

@carlarrowsmith 6 ай бұрын

EV charging is plug and play, its because people are trying to make big savings. People spend ages at Costco to save 10p a litre on petrol. EVs on Octopus Go which requires no specific charger or car is 1/6th the cost of petrol.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

Nothing complex you could just plug in and pay a standard electric cost… however if you buy a certain brand of EV charger you get access to highly discounted electric at 7.5p for your car and your home my bill for electric since getting an EV hasn’t been so cheap per unit… my bill is £31 for 306kwh that’s 10p a kwh check your bill your be paying more for less kwh useage and your unit rate be 3 times that

@mikemorley2797 6 ай бұрын

Whatever happened to cheap electricity overnight I have an EV but no wall charger because I don't need one. I am with Octopus so if it's cheaper to produce power when we are all asleep (remember economy 7) why am I paying the day rate, it's just another scam from what I can see.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

The way energy prices are these days isn't the same as it was years ago... Demand and production don't always follow the way they used to. Back in Eco7 days it was coal, gas, nuclear and oil these ran 24/7 so when it was night time a lot were still running warm ready for next day so electric was cheaper as demand was low but production still occurred. As we move now to a renewable future these plants don't need to be run as often, and wind and hydro power raises and falls then add solar which can change day by day, if its VERY windy at 2pm in the day power could be VERY CHEAP much cheaper than say 2am at night when no wind is happening. Deals like intelligent follow the true production and demand forecasts of energy as we go to more and more renewable energy this will be the norm of course a WINDY 2am night will be much cheaper tham a 2pm day but remember nothing stopping it being more windy at 10pm then 2am so ofcourse need to balance every day and every night customers plugin

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

@@garysmith5025 KINDA thats Octopus Go no need to phone them its 4 hours offpeak electric not 6 and you pay more for the offpeak rate also more details at evnick.com/energy if it helps

@mikemorley2797 6 ай бұрын

@@garysmith5025 thanks for that info does this require a smart meter installation?

@G-Cam1 6 ай бұрын

Ford... The Sonos of the EV world... Just waiting for someone to cry 'restrictive practice'... And sue Ford for much wonga😂

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

That reference gone over my head...

@Mark-wx1ho 6 ай бұрын

I habe a Nissan Ariya and Hypervolt 3 charger, yet I cant get Octopus Intelligent. Why?

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

Neither car or charger support it

@Mark-wx1ho 6 ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimoThanks. Now I know.

@12alocin 6 ай бұрын

So now you have to sell the Nissan and cough up for a car that is on the list.@@Mark-wx1ho

@ohyesitsme 6 ай бұрын

That's the reason I won't install an intelligent charger or a smart meter. They are downloading all your data. It might well be cheaper but I would rather not have them controlling what I do.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

Your paying more for it... Why do you care if they know when your charging the car your being PAID for it your not giving it for free its in return for a MUCH cheaper unit cost

@G-Cam1 6 ай бұрын

They will still have lots of data on you... I am happy to give them mine as at least you get something in return via much cheaper energy... Unlike other companies that mine and sell your data!

@Paul-li9hq 6 ай бұрын

That sounds so insanely complicated. I plug a pump hose into my diesel... And the fuel comes out very fast (and immediately, every time: I'm not waiting for the pump to do something else, like suddenly deciding to fuel another car or something stupid like that)... My tank fills up in less than two minutes... And I pay for it... And go. And I can see exactly what price is being charged on the approach to any petrol station: The price is on a huge, lit board, highly visible, outside the station. And those petrol stations are numerous. And no apps needed (at extra cost). No energy deals... No complications with xyz not communicating with abc: every single pump hose in the country fits my car.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

My car takes seconds to plug in… I go to bed and wake up with a full tank for less than £4…. I then take the plug out secounds… and drive then a week later I repeat no apps or thinking once it’s setup on intelligent the charger takes care of it, I can use the app if I want to but don’t need to,

@matthewdowning6009 6 ай бұрын

Yet about 6x more expensive per mile than plugging in your car at home and your smart charger charging it cheaply and slowly whist you are asleep.

@Paul-li9hq 6 ай бұрын

@@matthewdowning6009 Sort of true... But the electric equivalent to my diesel is ten thousand pounds more expensive. A £10,000 price difference? 10 grand buys me well over 3,500 gallons of diesel at current UK prices... And 3500 gal at the 55mpg average I am getting is 77,000 miles. 77,000 miles! Do you realise that means my diesel car owner can travel THREE TIMES AROUND THE ENTIRE CIRCUMFERENCE OF THE PLANET for the price difference. Even if the electric car was getting electricity at a mere 3 pence per FULL CHARGE (not per watt), I'm still seventy seven THOUSAND miles ahead on list price alone 🤣

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

@@Paul-li9hqyes but as a diesel is £5000 more expensive than a petrol… and an EV £10,000 more expensive than your diesel means that when you sell it your getting that difference back, it’s not gone it’s part of your investment

@matthewdowning6009 6 ай бұрын

@@Paul-li9hq Diesel isn’t £2.80 a gallon, it’s closer to £7 so no you wouldn’t get 3500 gallons. Very few people buy a new car outright then run it into the ground and scrap it, so even if a car is £10000 more expensive you aren’t going to be spending £10000 more on it. A Golf is about £100 a month less than an ID3 on PCP but the ID3 will cost about £20 a month to fuel. If you lease it though salary sacrifice the ID3 will be much cheaper as EV’s are tax exempt so would cost about £250 a month less. Still you like diesel, that’s good. But charging a car at home is cheap and easy nonetheless.

@rubblestacker 6 ай бұрын

the problem is the grid just cant keep up with charging theese hartless mobile lithium incendry devices

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

Grid can cope fine, in fact energy deals like this help keep the cost of energy down for everyone as when its been extremely windy in the past but demand was low and no EVs were around we paid wind turbines to be turned off wasting energy by apply the brakes and paying for it not to be used, now evs can store that energy meaning its paid to be used and not wasted lowering costs for everyone

@ukman9797 6 ай бұрын

How bloody complicated is this? Just proves this digital world we live in is useless and expensive.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

Its not complex once its working its pretty much set and forget, my charger is intelligent I just plug in... and wake up thats it

@nogassini 6 ай бұрын

I was first!

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

Winner winner chicken dinner

@user-pb54 6 ай бұрын

Best thing is not to buy one of these electric death trap cars.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

What on earth are you on about

@user-pb54 6 ай бұрын

Too many EV’s spontaneously ignite while charging. Best stick to petrol or diesel.

@NicolasRaimo 6 ай бұрын

@@user-pb54NO they don't spontaneusly ignite that's rubbish. Petrol and diesel are flammable files not evs

@BrianEvans-ff7ef 6 ай бұрын

But I guess you’re happy to put a mobile phone in your pocket? The lithium battery is just as likely to ignite your manhood. Throw your phone away or stop being silly xx