Is 250mw ExpressLRS Enough Power? Or Do I Need More?

Is 250mw ExpressLRS Enough Power? Or Do I Need More? - FPV Questions

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Жыл бұрын

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@matt0725 Жыл бұрын

I’m going to say something I often don’t see: I wouldn’t think most people flying ‘30km’ or long distance aren’t flying that distance and then starting a race or free styling. When you fly far turn it to 50hz and have fun, when you come in close turn it back to 1k

@Kleinage 9 күн бұрын

Omg. I just upgraded all my elrs modules to t antenna or dual t antenna because of connectivity/range problems. I still had some problems when flying urban environments, was putting a serious cramp on my style! Finally watch this and realize the problem is I’ve been running 500hz at 250mw dynamic power 😂. I had no clue packet rate impacted range!!! 😅

@ianwalton284 Жыл бұрын

This actually makes sense to me. And I suck at math. Thank you Master Bardwell.

@MomoBrut Жыл бұрын

I was 8.5km away at 150m with my FR7 with dual T-antenna setup (both polarizations). I had dynamic power active with telemetry reporting. The whole time I was flying at only 25 mW, only during the turn back the power increased to 250 mW for a short time, after a few hundred meters the power gradually dropped back to 25 mW. However, as soon as you fly in the rain, i.e. when it is wet and in places where you often fly behind obstacles at a distance of only 100 m and you only have a ceramic antenna in the quad, the dynamic power often rises to 1W for short moments. In the same place, the same flight, but in dry and sunny conditions, no more than 250 mW will be needed. So it's not that simple...

@JustFavorites123321 Жыл бұрын

I was having this same conversation in my head a few days ago. Jumper T-Pro 1000mw or Zorro 250mw. Even a wing with crossfire with radio calling out changes in output power, clear LoS it bumps up to 500 to 1000mw within a kilometer during turns for a few seconds. I'm close to the ground (water) but no obstructions. Even my dji goggles drop like a rock in the same range. I never get the range on power levels that other people report in areas where I fly. I know better than to go for the minimum power output. I like the buttons and antenna on the zorro but the power of the T-Pro. I'll wait...

@jonowillmer Жыл бұрын

I fly a lot in parks around trees, the wet weather makes a big difference even after the rain stops, the extra moisture in the ground and surrounding area seems to reduce my range. I agree with your comments for sure. I do fly 250mW 500hz, I might try reducing the hz, but as you say the video signal is the thing that tends to become an issue first.

@XtianApi Жыл бұрын

Let me ask this, first time setting up elrs. I'm running ceramic antenna mounted in a quad with a 250mw internal module. I get that 50hrz is the safest, but I think I'd feel a lag at 50hrz. I am comparing it to a video game running 50fps. I run analog video (for now at least) so I'm very limited by that range. But 100hrz? Would you say that is safe? Short range, but urban. Freestyle etc. Thank you

@DanielZerem Жыл бұрын

I think it also depends from receiver antena type. I have two drones with two different receivers. The one with ceramic tends to however near the dBm limit (90-100) for 500Hz mode and my external module tends to push closer to 1W due the dynamic power and it trying to maintain good link. Then I switch to other drone with T-style antena and my external module can lower its output power significantly whilst maintaining 500Hz link.

@eightiesfpv 8 ай бұрын

5:05 : “50Hz at 250mW is about half the range of 500Hz at 1W” this seems to be wrong in my opinon. I think it should be “50Hz at 250mW is about twice the range of 500Hz at 1W”.

@soursham Жыл бұрын

Jumper has a nice external module that runs 500mw. With no fans but heat sinks on the side. 👍

@dazzdoodlzfpv1020 Жыл бұрын

On my zorro with moxy antenna, fw3.0 tx and rx 500htz happymodel ep1 on all my quads never had any issue (touch hairy wood) freestlye 5inch, 7inch lr and some 3 and 3.5

@FordTom Жыл бұрын

I'd actually say you can run 500Hz 250mw fine, I fly the 500Hz FLRC on ELRS 3.0 at 250 and it outranges my video in basically every scenario

@XtianApi Жыл бұрын

Ceramic or no?

@FordTom Жыл бұрын

@@XtianApi nah I'm using EP1s with the T antenna. not sure exactly what the average reduction is for ceramic vs T but if you really wanted ceramic + 500hz you could probably do it at 1W and outrange video

@XtianApi Жыл бұрын

@@FordTom okay cool. Ceramic is about a 3db loss. So a quarter of the range I guess? I am ordering the radiomaster ranger. The cnc aluminum module. I have the happy model but all the damn internal plugs don't stay connected. It's a piece of junk case. The aluminum has a screen, external USB, buttons you can set to do whatever up want, a gyro to lower power when you place the radio down, etc. All for 99 bucks. Can't beat that

@timlong7289 Жыл бұрын

I think 250mW is enough for most people most of the time. I've flown 3Km LOS and had my tx not move above 25mW. I've also had it ramp up to 1W because I've flown behind something. But in general, yes I think 250mW is enough for most typical situations. I tend to run at 150Hz. I've also flown about 6Km LOS and it did move up from 25mW to (I think) 250mW.

@MCsCreations Жыл бұрын

All those radios with ELRS are fantastic, I love it. But... I don't know, I think I would still go with one with a 4 in 1 internal module and an external ELRS module. Because I still have lots of things with FrSky and FlySky receivers. But in 1 or 2 years from now... Who knows...

@timlong7289 Жыл бұрын

I feel the same. I love my external 1W module. I don't actually have anything that will bind to the internal module currently, but I like the idea that I could if I needed to. It feels like I have a lot of flexibility.

@MCsCreations Жыл бұрын

@@timlong7289 Exactly, the flexibility is the best part. And I like rc in general, I like to make rc stuff from foam board, depron and stuff like that. And for things like that you don't really need 30+ km range. So, sometimes I buy some pretty cheap receivers for those. You know? For quads I feel like there's no reason to go to anything else than ELRS, unless it's an agricultural drone with Mavlink and stuff... You know? But for things you're going to pilot LOS...

@Bucketheadzie Жыл бұрын

@@timlong7289 I’m going this route actually coming from rc planes with spektrum receivers. Just curious what 1w elrs module are you using? I just picked up that happy model elrs pro 2.4 for my radiomaster tx16s max 4in1

@nullfield1126 Жыл бұрын

Would you recommend for someone new to FPV and drones in general to also get the 4-in-1 internal + !W ELRS module, or just go full ELRS?

@MCsCreations Жыл бұрын

@nullfield1126 Today I'd go to ELRS. If you ever need, you can get a 4 in 1 external module later. And I would choose the Radiomaster Boxer!

@Krizon4 Жыл бұрын

Not everyone flies ELRS in quads. Current radio systems in europe (Spektrum, FrSky. Futaba, JETI ...) are limited to 100mw, and 200mw in US, and still they are fine. Flying ERLS with 250wm in europe is so huge upgrade in terms of reliability of RC link for wings and heli, that going higher is really not needed at all.

@AndyDreadFPV Жыл бұрын

The 35KM that Wesley Varty flew was at 100mW at 250hz with stock antennas and no failsafe. So 250mW is still plenty at 250Hz. I fly 500Hz at 100mW and it outflies my video in ever scenario i've done so far.

@naveennishad 21 күн бұрын

You don’t need higher watt for most of moments .. but in some moment when drone behind some things .. drone is turning so far .. you need 1w for bad moment and higher packets

@eastbound535 Жыл бұрын

on jumper t pro I run 1w and controller never shut down just getting quite hot at the back.

@gingefpv Жыл бұрын

I have a Jumper T-Pro and I'm pretty sure it doesn't actually go to 1W. There was no active cooling when I had my Jumper open.

@jndivetrips3765 Жыл бұрын

I’m running at 250mw at 250hz and I’m range limited by the vtx. I’ve never failsafed.

@Fly_High_FPV Жыл бұрын

How's the range/penetration of 250mw ELRS compared to 915 1000mw? Been on crossfire for years, and the shiatty BetaFPV Lite Radio 3 failsafes in my house....looking for a slim/nano 1 watt ELRS to compare vs Crossfire in my daily bando flying

@macrotecHN Жыл бұрын

Is it possible to have multiple repeaters on towers and have a FPV plane fly beyond line of site using those repeaters ? If possible can those repeaters be connected over internet to manage the FPV plane from anywhere?

@bomberaustychunksbruv4119 Жыл бұрын

I went out 8km on 100mw. Z84 wing.

@Freehotdawgs Жыл бұрын

Someone should make charts with RC modules at whatever hz and RTX power vs Analog/DJI VTX power and see where they intersect at what mw, a sort of cheat sheet to help determine when RTX will outrun your VTX at a given power for each, since that is really the most important factor imo.

@timlong7289 Жыл бұрын

You're not wrong. I fly analogue and it is always the video that fails first. I've never had a failsafe with my ELRS.

@RandoManFPV 10 ай бұрын

@@timlong7289I fly digital and experience the same. I'm curious what the range is on my stock tx16s mk2

@Raven-FPV Жыл бұрын

Some ppl in a forum told me to use 50 hz. So i load and saved the matching preset in Betaflight and set 50hz inside my radio . But as soon as i went into air , my radio was constantly talking to me. And i had Connection Problems aswell. I fell out of the air , lost signal and couldnt even fly around 10-15m .What went wrong ....? Woild appreciate some Feedback cause normally i use 250hz and have a ok range ....some more would be nice since i Switched to Walksnail 😄 would be nice ro know i can use almost same range with my elrs aswell as with my videofeed

@aowi7280 Жыл бұрын

I get just over 2 miles with a 1000mW Tx

@YT-qp3xw Жыл бұрын

can we use different hz in different profile in betaflight? let's say PID profile 1 in betaflight using 250hz elrs and PID profile 2 using 500hz etc2...i mean on the same flight controller

@R.B_B 8 ай бұрын

At 07:05 where I can find this table and more info about those info

@dumbphonk4002 Жыл бұрын

How do you set it to 50hz and what will that affect?

@holdenmcgroin3376 Жыл бұрын

Do you ever make it down to Chattanooga to fly??

@Chillin-fpv Жыл бұрын

So the elrs rc link preset i need is based on how much power my transmitter is pushing out?

@johngraboski 9 күн бұрын

having watched this post, the more dynamic question for me now is what is my vtx range? :S

@Shauny_D Жыл бұрын

you had some messed up math in there but you still got the gist across. haha

@tariqhasan Жыл бұрын

To the best of my knowledge 3dbm increase is roughly twice the output power. Not 6dbm.

@JoshuaBardwellLivestreamClips Жыл бұрын

3dbm is twice the output power, 6dbm is twice the range because of the inverse square law.

@GK-dd5ci 9 ай бұрын

6 dB in voltage is twice the voltage, 3 dB in power is twice the power

@piotrkaczmarek6801 Жыл бұрын

Aion Nano TX at dynamic power goes up to 250mW behind my house. Happymodel at dynamic power goes at the same pleace with 10mW. Jumper Aion Nano TX sucks.

@monami5201 Жыл бұрын

I hope so we are only allowed 100mw in the UK. Should be enough for line of sight.

@Shauny_D Жыл бұрын

i’ve NEVER out ran my dji video with ELRS even with 1W elrs. 1W and 150hz is as close as i’ve gotten to getting past caddx air unit’s range

@MachuPichuu Жыл бұрын

Antenna size and placement can have a big difference. With crappy antennas I usually start to get warnings on my rc link before my video on 2.4ghz. with 915mhz ELRS I get way better range. 2.4ghz is much more finicky plus there is all that 2.4ghz interference.

@Shauny_D Жыл бұрын

@@MachuPichuu Turns out my 1w betafpv transmitter just sucked. Using my original 250mw HM transmitter fixed all my issues. no more “sensor lost” notices and I’ve completely lost video before any signal issues

@Mennenth 2 ай бұрын

The problem is, as a discerning gamer I'm used to the polling rates of my peripherals being a minimum of 250hz. 125hz feels choppy I cant imagine how poorly 50hz would feel, even as a beginner I get that I still need to learn the basics, but imo learning the basics would be easier the more "friction" gets removed. As a beginner, I aint gonna be flying long distance. I have a 2 acre backyard, mostly open air and grass. As long as 250hz can cover that distance, I'd want to go with that for the better responsiveness.

@nuddin99 2 ай бұрын

Thats with a mouse and keyboard. Most controller polling rate is 125hz like the Xbox controller. You can feel it with a mouse and board but I doubt you can feel it with a controller. Especially as a beginner in fpv.

@Mennenth 2 ай бұрын

@@nuddin99 xbox controllers have been technologically behind the curve for a decade and a half at least. The dualsense does 500hz over bluetooth, and wired its possible to use a program called hidusbf to push it to 1khz. And this does make a huge difference, especially when it comes to the gyro aiming community (the community using the controllers built in gyro - which xbox controllers dont have - to control the camera). You'd be amazed at what people can notice. For a long time I thought 60hz/fps was enough. Then I got a 240hz monitor and a pc capable of driving it. Its a world of difference. Also, think for a second. The latency difference between hdzero and dji is around 16ms, right? Thats only one frame at 60hz. Even Mr. Bardwell says he can tell the difference. Every part of the chain matters. I wouldnt go lower than 250hz polling, when all I'm doing is "flippy floppys" in my backyard. If I was doing long range stuff and needed the distance/penetration, sure.

@eyesupdroneservices Жыл бұрын

So then, for indoor "oneshot" type videos, 250mw and like 100Hz would work for a large-ish building with a couple levels?

@lev_fpv Жыл бұрын

Definitely

@RandoManFPV 10 ай бұрын

So hz is like just the frequency it operates at? So you can just change it to whatever best suits your situation right? Higher hz equaly higher range; And what is bad about higher hz?

@JoshuaBardwellLivestreamClips 10 ай бұрын

Higher Hz is lower range but better latency. - Itsblunty

@metalfpv 11 ай бұрын

I totaly disagree with "a beginner doesn't need low latency" exactly because he lacks experience he needs all the extra reaction time he can get while an experienced pilot doesn't need extra low latency to do amazing piloting

@Sidiann Жыл бұрын

Somehow I just found out that Hz is a significant measurement when talking about protocols and radio modules. How is it changed? Where can you see what it’s at? Is it on the radio itself or do you have to do something with the receiver?

@JoshuaBardwellLivestreamClips Жыл бұрын

That would be packet rate on ExpressLRS, you can change that on the radio with the LUA script.- Blunty

@Sidiann Жыл бұрын

@@JoshuaBardwellLivestreamClips ah ok that makes sense. Is there any setting equivalent to packet rate for other protocols?

@JoshuaBardwellLivestreamClips Жыл бұрын

Most other advanced protocols allow changing packet rate. Like crossfire, tracer, and ghost. - Blunty

@Sidiann Жыл бұрын

@@JoshuaBardwellLivestreamClips ok thank you!!

@LifeofAccro Жыл бұрын

How would I track and log this info? I'm new to LR and got the elrs zorro a couple months ago with a nazgul 5" HD, control has been excellent and been flying out to 1.5mi so far (could go further, not confident enough yet)

@RandoManFPV 10 ай бұрын

What goggle setup? I got same but not that range

@RandoManFPV 10 ай бұрын

Goggle video fails

@LifeofAccro 10 ай бұрын

goggles v2 with crystal patch antenna, get a longer antenna on the for the vista unit (150mm) and havent had any major issues since@@RandoManFPV

@sewer1976 Жыл бұрын

Would be intresant to test elrs against crosfire in the i Urban area , with a hundred different wifi signals, Does anyone have experience with it?

@eastbound535 Жыл бұрын

I can say hundreds of wifi doesnt effect elrs at all

@Fly_High_FPV Жыл бұрын

Lots of experience with crossfire in urban areas and not failsafing with multiple buildings. The only thing that zaps crossfire is 900mhz microwave towers. Wifi can fuck with ELRS and 5.8ghz video systems

@rybapia4145 Жыл бұрын

a lot of telemetry warnings and micro failsafe in my Urban area at crsf. when switched to elrs all problems gone and lq 7:100 from 3lm with matek Diversity

@GregQuillen Жыл бұрын

For freestyle yea. Long range I'd want more.. dynamic power has had it go to 1w on me flying like 3 miles. A lot of interference & trees by me

@senseisecurityschool9337 Жыл бұрын

How far away can you hear someone whispering? That depends ENTIRELY on where you are. In a dance club, maybe 2 centimeters. In a library, a thousand times as far. RC links are exactly the same. The distance is totally dependent on the RF noise around you. Got thousands of wifi routers around shouting on the same frequency? You're going to need a hundred times more power for the same range as you'd need in the middle of the Australian outback.

@zeendaniels5809 Жыл бұрын

Thanks Joshua. Since here is illegal to fly beyond your visual range, I won't be doing more than 100 or 150m... So 250mW will be plenty.

@davidefelicione Жыл бұрын

250mW at 868mhz go anywhere and without problems.....

@justinslaight Жыл бұрын

I think 250mw is plenty for freestyle, midrange flying. I freestyle from in my car on crsf at 100mw with the tango 2 and never have issues.

@spirit_wolf123 Жыл бұрын

You forgot the effect of telemetry racial. if you fly inav you need at least 500 hz and 1.4 telemetry racial anything less than that equals longer and longer telemetry latency on radio..