11 days without power after hurricane irma was the tipping point for me... built a new house with sips, solar pv and powerwall and yeah... first time the neighborhood lost power and i didn’t notice until i looked outside? priceless.

You don't need solar if you could hook a generator up to this guys hands while he's talking.

seeing your numbers you need a few more solar panels, at least enough to match the energy you're using

In India we have installed a 5 kw solar system with 10 12 volts 200 ah battery which gives us 24 kWh of backup... and the total system costs us about 480000 Rs which is about 6550 usd.

very interesting. I'm excited to get my power wall installed

the real answer is if this was the NORMAL set up that everyone was accustom to.... no one in their right mind would change it to what is "normal" now. and that's how you know, it's a good idea. costs associated with the change however, not everyone's cup of tea due to their individual financial or living situations.

great content!!! love to see real world reviews of those systems.. keep it up and keep us updated 👍🏽

I am not a huge you tuber like you. So I paid full price for my power walls. I live in Florida and since insulation I am pretty much self sufficient. Charge at day and use at night. Just the piece of mind and not having to mess with noisy generators. Definitely worth the full price that I paid.

For me, having 3 PWs, combined with solar, to run the house and home offices is more about continuity. Being without power disrupts the working from home so much and that alone is enough justification in a hurricane-prone area like mine, in Puerto Rico.

I’m in Sydney Australia and We installed our solar and power wall 2 almost 2 years ago. Recently my energy retailer signed me up to participate in a VPP. (Virtual power plant). Basically the Powerwall 2 has software that grid operators can access with permission from the homeowner. So for example, the grid operator signs up 2000 homes with Powerwalls which can operate like a peaker power plant when demand is high. When they do this they notify the homeowner by text message when the event will start and finish. They will always leave 20% reserved in the PW for the homeowner and pay us $40 per event regardless how much the use. I originally calculated The payback for my system would be around 8 years, but now with VPP this could be even sooner.

"Well, if your power was out & the gas company cut gas for some reason". Welcome to Texas.

A really interesting breakdown, thanks for that. I live in the south of Spain, off grid with 4.3kw solar and 6kw battery and we have more than enough to power everything we need. We do have a diesel generator for those rare bad weather weeks, but I haven't used it for about 6 months now.

I have a 5.94 kWh system with 1 Powerwall. It’s been cool to see sunlight turn into energy to then power my house. I think part of the economics of it all that might be hard to factor in is the energy independency of the solar + Powerwall. I’ve had my system for about a month now and love it.

I think that you're not factoring in a huge part of the costs, Ben, which is interest. The total cost of your system is 27k including installs. The vast majority of people don't have that amount laying around(and if they do, they can invest it, so you'd have to take the opportunity cost of not investing in mind) and will take out a loan. Even given today's extremely low interest rates, if you install this on a house you're buying and roll this into the mortgage, you're looking at ~55% extra in total interest paid, for a 25 year mortgage, so the total cost in that case is 42K and it's not like you've added any value to the house with a mega-obsolete system by that point. If you've already got a house and take out a HELOC to finance it, the interest rates will be higher still. Also, given the fact that the warranty is only ten years, I don't think that you can treat the additional cost over a 25 year period as 0. Ditto for the Powerwall batteries. So it looks like right now, the system doesn't make financial sense even in Sunny San Diego, but I hope the equation will improve reasonably quickly 🤞 P.S. another factor why I'm not getting a power-wall yet, which I'd considered, just as a big UPS, is max power draw. A Powerwall has a peak output of 5.8KW according to the specs(it was ~3.5KW from what I remember, for the previous generation when I checked it out), I know you have 2, but that's pricy, see above. My kettle uses 3KW(standard for European kettles and I've wired up a European plug with 240V in my kitchen, just to use a European kettle, since I'm a tea-guzzling transplant and slow American kettles annoy me, but even an American kettle takes 1.5KW) and my microwave uses 1.2KW and the oven uses up to 3.5KW. I've got gas heating, but for people who use electric, even a small space heater will use 1.5KW. So basically, running off of a Powerwall would preclude me from doing a ton of things for the duration, or at least perform an annoying power-balancing act. Have you run into power-draw limits during the blackouts?

the art of not looking like a salesman, you have perfected.

Another advantage of using the power walls for emergency power backup is they don't make any noise. Most generators make annoying noises while running.

I really like that you have Tesla Powerwalls with solar. If you increase the efficiency of your home, e.g. get a tankless electric water heater, replace your AC with a more efficient 17+ SEER system or add more solar panels, you should be able to essentially supply 100%+ of your own energy! Plus, your electric cars are powered by solar energy when you charge at home. Super cool, keep it up!!

This is the absolute best breakdown I've seen about this system. Thank you for taking the time to create a dataset crunch the numbers for us.

I live in the southern part of Brazil here the electricity is generated purely by water, so the electricity costs about 5c (USD) the intire day to buy and theres no to litle time off grid, so by my use theres no much i would use

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer the questions we’ve all had but never answered on our own. :-)

The other advantage of the battery pack over the generator is a very low sound pressure which you cannot hear while the air cooled generator sound level is roughly 70 dB(A), water cooled 10 less (but is much more expensive). This makes a lot of difference especially during the night. Thank you for a very good video.

Well, living in Puerto Rico with an unreliable electric grid and the threat of hurricanes every year makes these things more of a necessity. I am waiting for Powerwall v3 to come out next year to buy one with a solar system.

Quick shout out... best Tesla coverage certainly comes from your channel. Thanks for always being so detailed while keeping it simple. 👍🏽

Great Stuff Buddy Thanks for all the detailed info!

“ safe during an outage “ define safe

For me it's not just about keeping the family safe and powered during blackouts. It's being able to hit the "Go Off Grid" button whenever I want and know that I am self sufficient and not relying on Utilities and Government to send me power. For me, that's worth much much more than the Powerwalls cost! One thing you don't mention in the above is that if you put up much much more panels (I have a 24kw system), then the math works out much better. Here in Arizona, the power companies send you a check at the end of the year for all the extra energy you banked with them. I get about $1,500 each year. That adds up in the equation as well and TBH panels are super cheap nowadays so you might as well load up big time when you build your system.

This was very helpful! Thanks for putting the numbers together!

When comparing value between cost over time (using grid power) vs savings from an investment (powerwall), I think you should include a discount rate in order to accurately compare the total savings. A discount rate is required because you can opt to not buy a powerwall and invest the amount to offset continual reliance on grid power.

We have 2 Powerwall 2's on our house as well, paired with our solar panels. Honestly I think the Powerwalls are the best product Tesla produces and is the thing I'm most excited about for their future as a company. Sunny days we're able to stay completely off grid, day and night. The advantage of having Powerwalls is not financial. It's reducing your reliance on grid power which is not clean power (and also not always reliable). You're getting to keep more of the clean solar power that you produce.

I'm going on 2 1/2 years with my PowerWall 2 and I absolutely LOVE IT. So much so I wish I had bought 2 and am thinking of adding a second!

You should try to add a small wind turbine or two just in case there is no sun and it could also work in the night

Same conclusion that I came to last year when I was pricing out power walls. But in a twist, I calculated spending the power wall money on more solar panels instead and that turned out to be a fairly large benefit even selling the excess power back to the grid at only $0.03/kWh. So I currently just have solar installed. What I wound up doing to deal with potential CA blackouts due to fire weather was to spend roughly $2000 on a hyper-efficient Dometic cooler and a small 40Ah LiFePO4 battery system that could run it for ~3 days or so without needing to be recharged. It is portable so it can easily be moved into a vehicle for recharging if necessary. When power goes out we transfer the more expensive items from the fridge to the cooler (i.e. several hundred dollars worth of meat, usually) and evict the beer. Ever since that week of hell (power safety cut-offs), PG&E has only cut power once since then and only for a few hours. So having a complete home backup system just for events that might occur 2-3 days out of a year seems a bit overkill. Meanwhile, the Dometic remains useful for a number of things unrelated to power cuts, such as road trips. Its really portable. -Matt

"we do have fires...kind of...in the eastern part of the state." That's a bit of an understatement.

Last time i had a outage is between 15 and 20 years ago. Happend twice in my life time. One was like 2 minutes the other half a hour.

very interesting and good insight. The best part and something to also consider is that even though its only got a 10 year warranty or lifespan, the power wall and even solar panels will generally last much longer albeit maybe at a reduced capacity but still be able to continue to function. That would help with justifying and getting better overall numbers.

Wow, great review with your smart unique analysis !!!

One more observation. If you require uninterrupted power, not just fast backup, don’t buy Powerwalls; they simply don’t work reliably. When you call support, Tesla acknowledges the failure, opens a ticket to level 2 and tell you they will get back to you in 5 to 7 days, which they never do. So you call them back, they put you on hold for 10 minutes to read the ticket and then comes the excuse wagon. After you shoot down the excuses, support opens a new ticket to level 2 to look into it further and the recursion starts. After months of this cycle repeating itself, you have no choice but to give up; realizing you’ve tossed thousands of dollars down the drain. So be warned, customer service ends as soon as your check clears. If Walmart has to sue Tesla to get support, an individual doesn’t stand a chance.

Hi Ben, we got 15.4 kW solar + 1 x Powerwall 2 on 5 December 2019 and Model 3 on 20 December 2019 (exciting month!). We have been very happy with our setup. We have a flat rate here (Melbourne, Australia), so no advantage to fill up at night. We were self sufficient in summer and autumn/fall, but had high usage (reverse cycle air conditioning) and low generation (obviously) in winter. So far we have imported just less than 1 MWh more than we have exported, but I am hoping that that will change, having just passed the equinox. We have had an astonishing 24 blackout events, though many were just for a minute or two, for a total of 4 hours of back up. I try to wait for a sunny day to charge the car (used to be just on weekends, but now that is easier in lockdown). I find the Tesla app addictive and am always hoping for greater generation and trying to minimise usage.

Much of the economics depends on the cost of electricity generally, plus the difference between peak and off-peak pricing. The value of keeping the home humming during an outage is priceless.

omg thank you !! finally someone who explains so people can understand. big help , again thank you

Great video. I have 1 x powerwall2 here in the UK, with solar (and a model 3). What makes it compelling for me, is that I have signed up my powerwall to be part of the 'grid' with Tesla and my energy supplier (who also supply only green energy). Tesla's software manages the powerwall throughout the day according to predicted weather etc. As a result of this deal - it drastically reduces my electricity bills, as my kWh cost from the grid is reduced - and my supplier pays me the same rate for export that I pay for import. However, in order to get this my powerwall depletes from 100% to around 21% between 16:00-19:00 each day (so im serving the grid at peak times). Im fine with that, as I still have 21% in reserve for power failures. All of this combined, means im reducing my energy bills by around 70% - as a heavy user, this is alot of money over the long term (typically our house uses 60kWh per day). At this rate, my solar and powerwall should have paid for themselves over 10 years. Still a long time period - but worth it to get all of the features you've described, use clean energy, (charge our model 3 with excess solar! nothing beats that!) & overall reduce our bills long term! For me - the powerwall2 is a great long term investment when used in this fashion.

San Diego has a mild climate? Wow everything really is subjective. We call San Diego normal weather an extreme heat wave in Finland.

Excellent video! Clear and concise

Thanks for sharing, great analysis

I bet he used a calculator

Just went operational with my 34 panel 11.56 kwh 3 Tesla Power Wall system. Your videos played a huge role in my decision. I was considering a Generac system but your compellng argument to have PW's swayed me. Thank you so much. And yeah, watching that power flow meter in action was mesmerizing! So Cool!

Very interesting video. Thanks for the overview

I am doing it just got the quote. Thanks for video

We love our power walls and solarroof. Power bill went from $500 in July 2019 to $55 in 2020. But, biggest benefit is knowing we always have power. Just last week the shutdown power for an hour when the found a bad cable. We never knew they shutdown the power. And If we have a multiday PSPS we will just keep doing our normal routine. Unlike last year when we lost power for 4 days.

Once I build my house, we plan on doing a power wall and small 4kwh solar array.

Very helpful, thanks!

Wow, I can’t believe you paid that much for your solar system! Even with incentives, thats expensive. Here in Australia (don’t mention our government’s laggard attitude to electric cars and infrastructure) we paid $4100 AUD for a 6.6kw system and 5kw high end inverter (including gov subsidies). Keep up the great work - love the channel!

I recently got solar panels and I am loving it! Saving the environment and my wallet! Love your channel!

I was wondering when someone would cover this angle. Great comparison between powerwall and generators. Here in Florida we have hurricanes that can knock out your power a couple times per season. Sometimes a day sometimes a couple days and the big ones a week or more. The hurricane may have passed a day or two ago but the sun is up and your panels are charging again. The Generac generator company does a lot of advertising here. In addition to power outage peace of mind the powerwall would be useful year round keeping you off peak rates. Thanks!

Is the switching back and forth from peak and non-peak hours automated or do you have to do it manually?

Great breakdown! Def cost was a big factor for me but helped my decision to go Solar + 2 Powerwalls was losing power for days and displacing my family. I don’t mind paying a bit more to have that peace of mind.

I'd love to avoid having to mow the dang lawn just by filling my back yard with solar panels.

The luxury off-grid/Leisure Cabin market will probably love this innovation.

Thanks for the info. I have to consider the costing. But really good perspective. I will look into it

Great video. In Fl so it seems to make sense, plus the peace of mind of having power during hurricane season.

Imagine how much energy the new battery packs are going to hold with the improved battery design!

Interesting. So conclusion is that in your case, either a battery or a solar would have been cost-effective but the law of diminishing returns mean that you can't justify both on cost grounds alone. I agree though that having back-up power is very valuable. And even if it does cost a bit extra, if we have the cash why shouldn't we invest a bit of it for the sake of future generations? In my case I can't justify a battery: My solar panels cover my daytime electricity and earn me a FiT subsidy (a UK/europe thing where you get paid for what you generate even if not exported). I can't charge an EV at home, so night time energy costs v low. That could change if the grid became less reliable or batteries became a lot cheaper. I've had my panels for 9 years and they've been faultless with zero maintenance. They paid off in 6 years. I have a quibble with your amortisation calc though - shouldn't you use a net present value calc rather than simply dividing the months?

A lot of videos I watch on PW never factor in the cost of damage from blackouts, or worse, brownouts. My neighborhood experiences more brownouts than blackouts, and with everything needing steady (DC) power to operate correctly, having the power dip has caused multiple failures on my hvac system. Luckily my sensitive electronics are on UPS’ already, and there are cheaper alternatives for just protecting from damage, but the piece of mind is priceless.

What company did you use to install your solar?

Considering how we keep reaching record temperatures in Summer and energy request is getting higher and higher for AC units, I'd say that being off-grid is priceless. Imagine not having energy for days when outside is 110F (45C), which is exactly when people would use the AC the most.

So all of his savings goes up in smoke whenever he throws in the TWO electric vehicles. 80kWh per vehicle (160kWh) worse case charge state. With a grid down scenario his power will last with the powerwalls and the solar panels but when he needs to charge just one vehicle he will wish he had the generator.

I live in New Mexico and my solar makes about 60 kWh / day. We use most of that power for air conditioning. My utility company allows me to bank unused power in the form of credits. I financed a loan for the system of $32.000. The way I look at it is before and after. Before I used bill averaging and paid about $180 per month. After: my loan and utility bill added together are just under $200. When factor in my Federal tax credits, I know I am saving money. Your video was most informative for me. The worst outage we ever had here was caused by a winter cold snap and lasted three days, both electric and gas were shut off. I have a gasoline generator I used to keep the cell phones, refrigerators and space heaters running.

Great video. Thank you. At the end of the day, this discussion is best looked at from the “it’s not about you” angle. Yes, there is still a relatively high cost for home energy storage and generation. However that cost is continuously coming down. Meanwhile the costs of grid maintenance and expansion is rising, mostly due to running things as they have always been for many decades. As more homes come online with the kind of setup you demonstrated, their energy sovereignty will eventually ease the massive burden on the grid and reduce costs for everyone.

According to a quick calculation, the solar panels would have an IRR of 8% (yearly). So on average you'd earn more by just investing in stocks.

You use the word "safe" during an outage". As a citizen of southern Sweden, the last power outage I had was around 7-8 years ago and it lasted longer than what I have previously witness. Power was out for about 1 hour. Years before that I had smaller outages of like 5 minutes. Not sure how long power can be out where you live in the US, but 5 min is of course nothing and an hour does not make your life go to shit either. During my 38 years of living, the longest power outage I have witness was about 2,5 hours. That is not a real issues either. It's not enough to thaw your freezer and you wont go mad by not beeing able to use your computer or TV during that time. Also, backup batteries or generators for the phone network last much longer than that, so you will still be able to use your phone to watch youtube, read news, log in to your bank etc etc.

Thank you, I've been thinking of an identical system for my home in central FL. Interestingly, my home is roughly the same size as yours. And where you are charging Tesla vehicles, we are still using gas. Do you have any data on expected performance of the Tesla Powerwall over the expected lifespan? Assuming roughly 100% efficiency at new, what efficiency rating are they expected to have in 10 years?

Can not remember having no electricity ever! (Germany) but also paying very high prices 0.30€ (0.35$) is/h

A roll looking 👌

I believe units like the Power Wall are very good. In the area I live (Eastern Idaho) those of us in rural areas routinely have power outages. However I plan to use VAW Turbines to suppliment the solar. (We have very good wind.)

Hey Ben... great vid and info. I’d love to get into the solar/PW set up.... but my concern is moving. What is the ROI with a move/re-sell?

First & foremost, ☀️&🔋 systems were never meant to provide a quick ROI & people need to get over that type of thinking as it was never the point. I think that any battery storage & or solar power generation system is worth it if you can afford to do so. If the longer than expected longevity of EV battery packs is anything to go by, home 🔋 storage systems could last as long as 20 or more years &, as Ben so rightly pointed out, you're left with peace of mind in the event of power outages. Car battery packs are already being given a 2nd life, repurposed for stationary storage & it's anticipated that this will expand rapidly.

cant wait to put some powerwalls into a tiny house on wheels. Rather, a stainless steel cyber house on wheels

Awesome review! Exactly what I wanted to learn. I hadn’t considered that we could just buy the power walls and charge up during off peak time. Thanks for the great idea. (I live in the desert and serviced by IID - apparently one of the most affordable energy providers in California and for us buying panels does not make financial sense since with IID we only pay $0.12/kWh)

I recently got 2 powerwalls and a 16kw system. With net metering and a time of use plan, would it be better to use time based controls in the app or self powered? I find that I’m able to fine tune the use of the powerwall with self powered but I have to keep adjusting the backup percentage so I the batteries when I need them during peak.

This power wall is great! I got it for free so I would recommend everyone to get one

Part of your data should include inflation. The cost of your electricity in 10 years will be vastly different never mind the 25 years lifetime of the panels

Thanks Ben for a great detailed analysis. I'm considering adding a Powerwall system to my home in southwest Colorado. We have solar panels but the local utility would not let us put as many panels up as would fit because of a limit in cabling to the grid that protects their service in case I push too much power back at the grid. Seems like I could put a limiter on the output when grid tied to prevent that overload but that's not my area of expertise. I'll do the investigation and likely will get the Powerwall(s) even with paying for them at full price. The 4 months of winter there is the main off-grid scenario, not rolling power shutoffs or fires. I have to protect the home from freezing in case a storm takes out the utility lines to the area. We'll see how it goes, cheers, S.

Perfect timing as I am on the verge of going solar and am considering battery. Thanks Ben

Dude. It’s Tesla not Tezla 🤦🏻‍♂️

You did not factor in "efficiency/loss" into the equation. It takes more than 9kwh from the grid to charge 9kwh of battery. Also, you produce less than 9kwh converting from 9kwh battery to power your home. You should not assume efficiency is 100%. Your actual saving is less than your assumption.

Excellent video. You just convinced me that I DON’T need a power wall. Living in Florida my situation is a bit different than yours. If anything were to happen such as a hurricane and a substantial number of panels were blown off my roof the power wall would be useless. Whereas a natural gas generator would be cheaper in acquisition cost and more valuable in my situation.

Thanks for sharing your numbers. We’ve looked into the Powerwall (PW)and the natural gas generators...our home is too big for 2 (PW), and we’re not confident that we’ll stay in this home for the long haul. Sometimes it doesn’t make financial sense. If I had a way of getting them for free and only paying for installation....hell yeah I’d do it.

kind of frustrating having an 80 kilowatt hour powerwall in your driveway,and you can't use it. DOH! Wake up elon

Lol hearing that really mack me Lough hard about the setuation in syria where we have outage every 3 hours 24/7 sense 7 years now ..

Here in New Orleans, where electricity rates are already low (we don't have peak/off-peak rates), the catchback for a PowerWall might seem infinite. But the value of intangibles like "maintaining power during (frequent) outages" or "not having to evacuate for a slow-moving hurricane" should sway lots of potential buyers. Instead, with the abundance of natural gas and plentiful sun hours, people either go with just-solar (no batteries) or opt for a generator (loud, costly to maintain, not always reliable) and cross their fingers. The few homeowners I know with a PowerWall installed LOVE IT!

For me, a farm kid with a grid that dies once a month in Canada, I would say that that interruption is welcome. For someone who lives in the city, like myself now and whose job relies now on the grid being stable... we experience maybe a brownout every few months. A solid UPS covers those brief blips and even those longer rare outages - I can't see a powerwall being beneficial here.

“It's not about money… it's about sending a message.“

Over the last 5 years, I had one single black out. What are you doing with your grid over there?

We did two powerwalls after installing our Tesla Solar system. In Florida, with the weather outages, it was important to have power when the hurricanes come. I live in a wooded area and there are trees going down on power lines whenever there is wind. I also bring my 84 yr old mother and her three dogs to my house when there is a storm, so having lights and power and some AC is important. So the cost of the powerwalls was not as big a factor for us as was the convenience of always having power.

Great video. Like the way you showed your numbers. I am in North County San Diego and what really has me thinking about it now is the water shortage. The news has reported that power companies might not have enough water in reservoirs to run at 100% and may start having rolling power outages because then can no longer produce enough power.

I'll save you the time of watching the video: He got the powerwall for free and if not for that it is not worth it. lol

We ordered our solar glass roof and 2 power walls recently. Just a waiting game now. Planning to move to an EV soon. Thanks for the video.

Nice info

For me we’ve had 4 PSPS shutoffs so it makes sense for multiple powerwalls. And the factor that my wife and I both work from home and my son is distance learning, we are blowing through energy during the day.

2.7K just for the installation ??? Am I hearing this right?