Nick Wallette hi have you ever seen how they stet up the decks in the days of vinyl if they where pushing out that sort of power they used to suspend the decks with chances or place them on a thick bed of foam that’s how they and I overcame that problem

If all you are concerned about is being able to play loud music in a club, then no, no one is going to care. However, you are dead wrong to insinuate that the speakers are not affecting playback - because they are. If you pumped classical music, delicate acoustic guitar, or high quality vocals through those systems - at those decibels - AND you had a discerning, concert-going audience, it would be unlistenable . People dont go to clubs to LISTEN to the nuances of the music. They go there to drink, dance, and hook up. How is that for logic?

Pretty good! You got pretty close to rational thought there. Be careful - you'll get kicked out of the Golden Ears club if you keep that up. In all seriousness, you're right - clubs aren't about nuanced listening. And I wouldn't dare insinuate (or even say out right) that there's no coupling at all between a loudspeaker and a nearby phono cartridge. Of course it affects playback. A farting frog down by the crick affects playback. The question is: to what degree? All systems have resolution. If the coupling is below the noise floor, it doesn't have a *meaningful* impact. If that discerning, cork-sniffing, holier-than-thine-MP3-player crowd went to a club and asked the DJ to spin Concerto #5 at 112dBA, I would imagine the sheer SPL would trigger the reflexive closure of their eardrums, thus probably negating the minimal influence of the loudspeaker-cart loop up until the point where it was one falsetto short of equilibrium and into the sharp squeal of positive feedback. Does it add distortion? Yes. As much as a cheap Peavey IPR being pushed into the rails, a horn tweeter experiencing thermal compression losses, or a repurposed gymnasium generating an acoustic comb filter that would dazzle the Dollar Shave Club guy? Not likely. For a REAL, above-the-noise-floor alteration of the signal through acoustic coupling, the impact of the speaker is going to have to be greater than the average level of the needle displacement by the record itself. Which insinuates that you've got the volume up there into "clubbin" territory. Which is a level to which no civilized listener would tread, right? It's up there in the "drink dance and get lucky" range. A fellow above commented about foam isolation. When you have a row of 18" Black Widows moving half an inch peak to peak, you've got enough percussive excitation to make a measurable difference to the ability of a needle to track its groove - even if you had that deck hanging in free space. And yet it does, well enough that nobody notices the error. Let's not pretend that some yahoo in his pinstripe pajamas needs to worry about interference from a set of 8" bookshelf speakers turned up halfway on a 5W tube amp. It absolutely will couple. And of course nobody can tell you it doesn't matter because everyone's hearing is different and "YOU can tell!" Fine. Good for you. All I'm saying is it's not the crime of the century for average Joe Listener, who just wants to listen to The Dark Side of the Moon. If a deck can COPE with Will I Am @ 6,000W in the same room, it can play near enough to perfect with 10W on the same occasion table.

M K hi there it’s very nice to read a comment from someone who knows what he is talking about my point is and was in a hifi set up we are trying to get a true reproduction of the music, most people don’t listen to music it’s just there in the background. I used to dj and yes all they wanted was loud and thumping they didn’t know that poor styles trying to stay in the groove was working over time but I always tried to make it sound as good as possible, at home it’s a different at least for me it’s the quality of the music and not so much the volume. I listen eyes shut and chilled out Happy new year 👍👍

M K yes you are right they don’t care but I always did and yes I know it caused distortion all I could do was try to minimise it

....and Obama had it on a marble surface that is highly unlikely to transmit vibration from one component to another anyway!

@@ukfmcbradioservicingTango21 Thought exactly that :)

Omg,, what if he had a crosley cruiser.... people’s heads would have literally exploded...

Ralph Hoskins LOL yeah totally

Imagine someone saying your setup "isn't expensive enough"

That or pop some popcorn and enjoy the show.

r/audiophile idiots are reporting this video

Louis Joke’s on them. Multiple false reports will get their accounts deleted on KZfaq.

Why do any of you even KNOW what they're talking about in the first place? I've seen the discussion and got bored in 3 seconds and never visited again. What I DO wonder about is (remember, I don't read the Reddit posts): why is this so specific for vinyl? And what's elitist about it? And yes, I've also met people who told me that a turntable setup that cost less than US$ 10.000 would sound even remotely good. Right....

the reddit user who advise everyone to avoid cheap turntables u/slavikcc deleted his account.

I have this KZfaq video on Vinyl and it definitely makes a huge difference when he plays the music

wow your comment isn't even worth $1000 and you are clearly the president of Hyrule- does your opinion even count?!?! 😂

Hilarious www.reddit.com/r/vinyl/comments/ab5t0x/is_having_speakers_on_the_same_surface_as_your/

Not even going to bother voting. This kind of testing, not hindered by any kind of knowledge, is just painful to watch.

@Oli K My comment at least makes sense, as opposed to your angry gibberish; I haven't even expressed any kind of opinion with it.

Clearly the test is not valid, he was not using cable rises made of unobtanium that cancel out the gravitational pull on the electrons and didn't connect his speakers with an 192 karat gold wires with at least 100k hours burn in.

I post my setup on r/vinyl and the main concern was "THE VIBRATIONS!!!"

Audiophiles: speakers and the turntable can’t be in the same room!!

It's a diminishing return relationship between audio quality output and money spent. Most people wouldn't spend $9 per gallon of gas even if it promises to promises to improve gas mileage by 11%. Most will still go for the standard price gas. Some can afford it, but that doesn't give them any right to make anyone else feel bad about what they can afford.

I've practically spent $0 on my Acoustic Research turntable. Got it from Freecycle and didn't have to spend a fortune.

Most turntables are very much over engineered, I consider myself an"audiophile" and my LP120 was bought on sale for 230 bucks, and I heard Carly Simon's voice weaken once, never heard that before. Why capitalism is great, you want a 4,000 table help yourself, main thing is to enjoy, nothing quite like analog .

@@musicman8270 Yep, nothing is full of errors like analog. ;)

Yep,, lots of kick ass vintage decks around for a few bucks on eBay... get them back working and ya have a nice setup on the cheap... most of the reddit crowd seem to be overcompensating for something;)

I think that's because they are :) Or very similar. They even are from the same brand :)

at least Obama has some tastes in his audio setup. Judging by his setup, he probably does not, or cannot have loud music anyway. LOL

grodenbarg Hm, if Techmoan is to be believed, those Kanto’s are pretty loud 😀

Hahahaha they did too

@@grodenbarg he watches techmoan

Also known as audiofools

No he hasn't. It really depends on the equipment. The more powerful the speakers, the bigger the issue it's going to create. You wouldn't put your turntables on the same surface as PA speakers for example, that would just be stupid.

@@SSJfraz Well, they sort of do with Technics SL-1200's in clubs. But they DO use cartridges especially designed for such an environment running a high tracking weight...

@@erwindewit4073 I've never witnessed a turntable DJ having their PA speakers on the same surface as the turntables themselves. Either the PA system is the clubs own system and usually mounted to the walls, or the DJ sets up his own PA system, with the speakers either on the ground, or on their own independent stands. Having a higher tracking force isn't going to make much difference at those levels. The resonance generated at these volumes is far too great to have the speakers on the same surface as the turntables.

@@SSJfraz You're right of course. The PA is very close. Close enough to cause serious vibrations on the platform the turntables are on. I used to be a DJ for a good while, and I was regularly surprised the turntables tracked at all! Let alone track without skipping.. Ever... But tracking force was usually set to 6-6,5 grams on Ortofon Concorde DJ cartridges. My Nagaoka MP-110 and vintage turntable wouldn't stand a chance. They probably would even play at all in an environment like that... Even with the speakers 'isolated' from the ground, the air pressure they produce, and the vibrations too are impressive :)

DabneyCollins Yep, I have a P-mount cartridge with lighter than normal tracking force and with the addition of my HSU powered sub. I had to position my turntable on a separate table at least 8 feet away from my sub in order to keep the feedback from happening, and even then I took it a little bit further and created custom feet to eliminate as much contact space from the base to the table. Now I don’t have an issue. You can also get a noticeable hum that feeds through the power amp to the turntable if the components are too close. My turntable now sits on its own table like a spoiled brat but that’s what it takes to keep her happy. Btw, I like my music loud and clear!

My dad has his turntable on a steel shelf thats mounted to the solid brick wall of the house with 8 screws. No matter how loud the bass is, it doesn't vibrate or feed back at all. Maybe you should mount your turntable on a shelf on the wall.

Most 'hi end' turntables have a suspended sub-chassis, their suspension is generally tuned to below 5Hz so they are very difficult to excite through structure borne vibration from the speakers. Direct radiation will have some slight impact, Keep the lid closed. What makes them skip really bad - esp. if not damped - I mean bounce like a kangaroo - is if you have suspended wooden floors - as they also seem to be resonant at about 4 or 5Hz and many expensive tables will be bouncing uncontrollably when you walk over to change the record...Hence why they recommend a wall mounting shelf. EDIT: And then you could in all likelihood stick a big speaker next to it without any issue. Solid plinth turntables rely on the material properties, mass and damping to minimise feedback, but they never can quite approach the isolation offered by a suspended deck - doesn't mean they don't sound as good, they often do. Lightweight plastic plinth models should be avoided - if you can, they are prone to sing along with the music as demonstrated here - inadvertently maybe. There are many other performance aspects too, that cheap plastic turntables don't do well.There are many solid old turntables about for less money. Modifying old turntables to perform well is good fun, cheap and you can get the performance of a crazy priced chromed loony turntable for maybe 200 pounds. You just have to know what the strengths and weaknesses are of your chosen model. There are many, many great, yet undiscovered models out there - Just don't tell anyone. Keep it secret. You don't have to be an audiofool to pursue quality reproduction, or worse tragically avoid the whole thing for fear of being labelled a fool. You can be scientific about it, and sensible and be a music lover who experiences amazing things made possible by the combined effort of many extraordinary engineers who devoted their time to improve the quality of reproduction. Some of the greatest engineers who ever lived made it possible. Alan Blumlein and Howard Armstrong both early pioneers and considered the finest minds of their time. Many great engineers have been involved since, making the industry what it is.Too many people to list, too many products of note to list. There were no fools in this list. Sticking a plastic turntable on top of a guitar amplifier and getting it to howlround, then pronouncing that the stylus (which can measure less than 0.1 micron and at other times accelerate to over 6000G) is unaffected as long as it isn't sitting on top of the speaker as if- by some magic - the energy is removed from the system - Is well in the realm of audiofool.

Any decent record player from the early 80´s playing through a proper amp/speakers set will produce low frequency feedback on high volume levels.

@@juslitor A well isolated turntable with a suspended subchassis tuned to below the audio band will be almost immune, Even some transistors and ICs are sensitive to acoustic/vibration. Some early types especially. You could tap the case of an AC128 and drum along. Plastic cased transistors are less likely to be microphonic, but some are. Valves of course can be, and some can be bad enough to feedback and howl-around. It's worth testing valves for microphonics in sensitive areas, a quick tap with a finger nail will tell you. Swapping a first stage noisy valve for a final stage less noisy one is a quick and free improvement - if you have a few of the same type.

Instead of Audacity you can also try Wavosaur 32/64-bit (Free) for the recordings. It has Analysis features and 3D graphical screens.Oh Yeah... Everybody have good 2019 and don't blow you're ears up with the firecrackers... LOL

Even better: Remove the drive belt from the turntable so the platter will not turn on its own. Put a record on the platter, place the stylus on the record. Pipe the output of the turntable into Audacity or something. Using a separate signal source like an MP3 player, play music through the speakers. Anything the stylus picks up will show up in Audacity without the record's music masking anything. There will probably be something, but it will likely be very, very slight. This was a criticism leveled at console stereos long ago - having the big speakers and powerful amps of the more lavish consoles in the same cabinet as the record player was seen by audiophiles as a mortal sin. Of course, we're talking about a breed of people who would argue over the merit of aluminum screws versus stainless steel screws holding the cartridge, and who look down their nose at anything that doesn't cost at least as much as a Buick.

Cool, make a video of that. Sounds great to try that! Please do that, preferably with setups that these audiophools may run. I'd be very interested in seeing the results.Arguing about results without testing (as you just suggested) is equally phoolish, don't you think?

@Lassi Kinnunen Well, I think it would matter to a bigger percentage of them than you may think. Point is: I don't think anyone has ever really done something like that... Just like Bob and Kim, it's nice to suggest to try that, but unless you do, your just making assumptions, just like the audiophiles. I like VWestlife for actually trying them out :) Rega turntables don't deal with vibrations very well, and something like the sort of affordable Nagaoka MP-110 (160 euros), which is really an audiophile grade cartridge (although many will say it's too cheap to be one). So doing the VWestlife tests, putting them side to side in Audacity would be a very good and pretty scientific way of testing that. It's obviously going to make one group unhappy (the side that was debunked), but hey. And you know in advance that either side that gets debunked is going to complain that it wasn't done properly, etcetera. Let's be honest, reading the reactions to this video, if it turns out the audiophiles WERE right after all, what do you think people here would say? I am a scientist (university, computer science and a separate grade in educational science), and I'd just be very interested in the results :) Oh, don't do the tests on the marble surface like Obama uses :)

If you can manage to perfectly line up both recordings, you can invert the phase of one, and if it's pretty much silent then there's not much of a difference between them.

Unless you have real hearing problems, you'll hear the difference. Weather you can, or want to afford it is another question. But you're right, people running digital playback equipment are very different ;) Vinyl snobs don't give a crap about what you run, it's you who does...

HBC 101 Check out the Reddit post on r/vinyl dealing with this video. "It's only a 100 dollar turntable" snobs

Louis Oh bleh, I hate those. There will always be people... I do agree that the AT LP-60 and similar ones like it are probably a better choice, sound wise. Funny thing, as VWestlife already showed. What do people think? That everybody has all the money in the world? Sorry.. Got a bit aggravated..

@@erwindewit4073 Yeah man, i agree with you. Not everyone is wealthy enough to own everything pristine and grand in this world, and "audio snobs" often think the opposite, which is rather illogical.

@@timotheatae That's quite improbable, 1 Hz. You'll need a pretty impressive sub to get to 15 Hz :) But they sure exist. I once heard very deep loud bass at the grocery store and decided to see where it came from. Well, that was 800 meters away, produced by a big hybrid sub playing the score of Jurassic Park :) COOL!

@Timothy Honiss The sub isn't specifically for the turntable, it's for the digital music we play. And while the subwoofer doesn't help with oscillation it still happens with it turned off. I don't think the problem is anything to do with components (NAD C558 with brand new Ortofon cartridge and Paradigm Prestige bookshelf speakers) it's just down to the flaws of the format and the design of the cabinet they're in.

@@thelonelytimbit A speaker / sub shouldn't physically move. I have a sub myself going from 19Hz and up. It never physically moves. Then there is something seriously wrong with your speaker.

It soundds more like a fart.

@jackthegamer That whole turntable is a joke.

Mala's boiler room had that issue.

And the problem is easy enough to fix with a bunch of "audiophile quality" felt coasters.

Try setting the Shure closer to its maximum recommended tracking force of 1.5 grams. Then it probably won't skip. Remember, when it comes to tracking force ranges, the engineers determine the maximum rating, because they actually know what works best for it, while the company's marketing department determines the minimum rating, because they know that people have been led to believe that a lighter tracking force is always better.

VWestlife at the same time, most "audiophile-grade" turntables seem to rely on the turntable feet to dampen unwanted vibrations. My AR turntable, much like my record changers, uses a spring-based suspension for dampening and isolating the chassis from unwanted resonance from the plinth. When properly set up and dampened, having the speakers on the same surface as the turntable shouldn't cause any issues.

Probably he accidentally left his microphone on.

vinyl sounds "better than CDs" ?

@@umajunkcollector i think it depends on the system and studio recording of the record or CD. I found CBS records and CD albums sound like crap compared to Warner Bros. media, but if I play a CBS record and compare it to a CD the CD sound is better on my end. I prefer vinyl for the sound but mp3 is more easier to store and no complaints because I no audiofool lol.

The cartridge and tone arm do not have vibration "isolation built in", and that is where all of the physics of vinyl play back happen.