IS PITCH ACCENT REALLY NECESSARY?【オージマン MASTER CLASS】

  Рет қаралды 4,657

オージマン oojiman

オージマン oojiman

Күн бұрын

Be like Bill don't over obsess about pitch accent and pronunciation
.
00:00 - Introduction
00:19 - How to Learn Pitch Accent
07:57 - How to Learn Pronunciation
10:32 - Why You Might Not be Getting It
13:23 - Pitch Doesn't Matter That Much
18:56 - Outro
.
Discord Link
/ discord

Пікірлер: 80
@KoreKaraPodcast
@KoreKaraPodcast 2 жыл бұрын
BE LIKE BILL.
@flows4567
@flows4567 2 жыл бұрын
No one wanted to be my friend until i fixed my pitch accent. Now when i ask for chopsticks I actually get them instead of always getting a bridge. Stupid bridges
@vanessasmith9646
@vanessasmith9646 2 жыл бұрын
Hahahaha
@karben.91
@karben.91 Жыл бұрын
The section on pitch accent not mattering made me laugh a lot, I'm glad you put it in the video. I'm thankful to Matt Vs Japan for introducing me to immersion and creating a lot of helpful resources, including helping build refold, but not everything he says is correct or useful. When he'd talk about pitch accent and how if it's bad natives will find you annoying or unlikeable, it always struck me as being pretty harmful advice. I'm also pretty sure it's in his best interest that people stress about how their accent sounds since he has a paid course to help people fix it. I hope that your perspective spreads so that people can focus more on the fundamentals and stop worrying
@SomeGuy-so3kk
@SomeGuy-so3kk Жыл бұрын
Its not advice its a marketing strategy.
@bobfranklin2572
@bobfranklin2572 2 жыл бұрын
Honestly just being aware of the existence of pitch and the few patterns helped a ton. Dogen's course is great, but I Honestly haven't done it yet.
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
I mean its just standard stuff you dont really need to go through the whole thing like you said just good to be aware of the existence of pitch and some patterns is enough
@user-yi7yb5cc6i
@user-yi7yb5cc6i 2 жыл бұрын
Always keeping it real! Loving your content.
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks im glad to hear!
@notaleuntold
@notaleuntold 2 жыл бұрын
Concise and well-reasoned explanation. You're one of the few who can make a video 10+ min without spiraling off topic and keep it dense with good info.
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks man I'm glad to hear I didn't go too off topic haha
@TheBooGlue
@TheBooGlue 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Aussieman. I've never commented on your videos but I've watched a lot of them and just wanted to say you've been a great help and thank you for your videos
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
Hey thanks so much for the comment and supporting my videos! I'm glad you are enjoying them!
@ichoniha7896
@ichoniha7896 2 жыл бұрын
Preach the truth mate! I agree that learning pitch accent and stuff right from the start might be way too much honestly. When you just start off you already have grammar, kanji, words themselves etc. to worry about, there's no need to slam active pitch accent study on top of that. Personally I didn't start on pitch accent stuff until much later in my Japanese journey, and even then it's only now when I feel like I finally got to a point where I don't have to make conscious effort into deciphering the message that I can really focus on listening for pitch on the sentence level. It's a lot of fun really, it's like there's a whole new layer to Japanese that I can tune into now, in a way it makes listening quite exciting. On that note sure I didn't really get into pitch until years after starting out with Japanese, but I still learned to hear it, now that I can hear it I can easily correct myself if I realize my pitch is off on some word. Imo those studies are not applicable to language learning, I didn't know what the correct pitch for 夢 was, after I found out what it was I just changed the way I say it right then and there, it's not the same as fixing a bad habit. p.s. Any thoughts on the picking a "parent" and mimicking their pronunciation thing? Did you do something like that or did you just listen to various people who speak kansai ben?
@opolo704
@opolo704 4 ай бұрын
I do also think that early output is fine, (I also did the google translate to see if my sentences were right LOL), and I think as long as you consume a lot more input than output then your pronounciation and pitch accent will be fine. 'Bad habits' are not as common as you might expect. I've experienced it myself when I stopped using English for a couple of years and my accent and fludity speaking dissapeared, but after a few months back in an English speaking environment, my accent was back and I could speak no problem, where at first my mouth felt too salivated and it was hard to speak fast. Same with kids who at first speak slow and can't pronounce certain sounds but after a few years it dissapears. However I don't know to what extent that is true because I know many people who are fluent yet have far from a native accent. Do you have any thoughts on this and the difference between someone like you and the other people? I mean my mother is spanish and she learned English via the traditional way but it wasn't after going to the US that she realy became fluent. But still, her accent doesn't sound native. Is it also a question of mentality and people who focus on sounding good vs people who just try to survive with the language and pay no attention? Also, using English as a comparison for accents is a pretty bad example. English is the most international language and so we are used to hearing all of those different types of accents to the point it doesn't matter anymore. With more tight-knit languages, especially those confined to a singular piece of landmass, a foreigner accent is a lot more disorienting. I mean I can't give an opinion as I'm not yet good enough at Japanese and haven't met many Japanese people, but I think comparing English and Japanese in that aspect is a pretty bad comparison.
@jporfirio_
@jporfirio_ 2 жыл бұрын
Good shit as always Australian Jesus
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
Thank bruh ahaha
@maakunnn
@maakunnn 2 жыл бұрын
Dude thanks for these videos, seriously! sometimes i forget that learning Japanese is all about the friends you make along the way lol
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
Thats all good! Yeah it really is all about that for me thats the best part about learning a new language!
@bobfranklin2572
@bobfranklin2572 2 жыл бұрын
That bit towards the end about accents is great. I don't think I'm in the minority when I say that ide rather speak to someone who can express themselves really clearly, with a bad accent (or even a really bad accent) 1000 times more than someone who sounded like they're born and raised in my hometown, but really struggled with the language overall. Yeah, it's true, sometimes an accent or pronunciation that's hard to understand can be a bit of an issue, but if the person is expressing themselves well and has a lot to say, I can live with it. Sometimes what they bring is well worth it. Maybe it's an American thing? Or a discrimination thing? People with imperfect English are some of the most interesting and intelligent people I've met, and are some of my best lifelong friends. My BJJ coach is a Brazilian guy. He has a thick accent, and says "gwardo" and "armbwar" But his classes are interesting. He's fluent in English and a great teacher even if he's hard to understand sometimes. A class I took at uni had a German professor. Super thick German accent, but I understood him completely perfectly. He expressed himself better in English than I do 😂. He has literally mastered the language better than most natives I know, German accent or not. The common link here is being able speak and express yourself. So long as your accent isn't a huge problem and people can get you, what matters is being able to use natural language. And that's what immersion will teach you that traditional language learning can't. learning real Japanese from Japanese. After that, it's all about your personality. If you can't make friends in your native language, why would having absolutely perfect, even native Japanese fix that? If someone's cool, even with a terrible accent AND bad language skills, it's still worth being their friend sometimes. Why stress about the icing when you don't even have a cake yet? Sorry mate, rant.
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
Nah bro dont be sorry you put that really well! I completely agree with everything you said there as long as your accent is good enough for people to understand you there are so many more important aspects of language and language learning
@aapolars
@aapolars 2 жыл бұрын
based.
@KxmpleteKxllapse
@KxmpleteKxllapse 2 жыл бұрын
so why did u decide to learn kansai ? what made u pick that compared to osaka dialect etc?
@benjacook3771
@benjacook3771 2 жыл бұрын
I really like the story about your Japanese backpacker friend- I'm going to think about that next time I feel embarrassed speaking broken Japanese :P
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
I'm glad you liked it! I try and remember it too whenever I get get worried about speaking in Slovak now haha
@redorc596
@redorc596 2 жыл бұрын
A breath of common sense in the bizarro world of japanese learning where some people seem to think that you need perfect everything or else it's a failure.
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
Legit its weird isn't it haha who cares if you aren't perfect especially since theres no one whos gonna be perfect in every area of a learned language
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
People may say my speaking is near native level but I still find words all the time in books and stuff that I don't know so im farrr from perfect ahaha
@user-96.-
@user-96.- 2 жыл бұрын
what part of australia are you from?
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
I'm from country vic
@mannyw_
@mannyw_ 2 жыл бұрын
Who’s Bill? I’ve seen/heard him on Korekara as well lol
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
Check the other comments theres one other comment where some people explained it well ahaha
@yishihara55527
@yishihara55527 2 жыл бұрын
Stephen Krashen said that even if you tried, conscious awareness of pitch accent and pronunciation practice can't possibly help. It's all handled at a subconscious level. This is what Matt doesn't understand.
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
Aye exactly that
@AConnorDN38416
@AConnorDN38416 2 жыл бұрын
It has always struck me as odd that Matt has all these videos about how you can’t learn a language by studying it like math, but somehow this doesn’t apply to pitch accent, and unlike grammar you need to spend time studying pitch accent rules.
@yishihara55527
@yishihara55527 2 жыл бұрын
@@AConnorDN38416 Yeah. I'll trust Stephen Krashen since he actually knows what he's talking about.
@toxicminecraftkid6919
@toxicminecraftkid6919 2 жыл бұрын
love your videos so helpful help me quit minecraft and is helping me change my life for ever thank u aussie man
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
U should play minecraft in Japanese with Japanese people thatd be that ultimate power move
@NotSatan
@NotSatan 2 жыл бұрын
Bill looking like he immerses.....
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
Hes been immersing too much in Rich Piana vids
@grafvonkartoffel1455
@grafvonkartoffel1455 2 жыл бұрын
The landline in the background only adds to the basedness 💪
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
Only alphas use landlines 🇦🇺🏆🥇
@nfrankiksa4596
@nfrankiksa4596 2 жыл бұрын
What I don't quite understand yet is that you've said you didn't really do shadowing, (like at all?) then how did you hone your pronunciation aside from the auto feedback coming from thousands of hours of immersion?
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
I spoke and was like oh that sounded off ill say that again different next time haha if you immerse enough its pretty easy to notice most of your own mistakes
@nfrankiksa4596
@nfrankiksa4596 2 жыл бұрын
@@oojiman Wow cool I mean yeah, when I try to speak english (not my native language) I hear that I sound off but I never thought of doing just that lol because English has way more sounds than Spanish (my mother tongue)
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
@@nfrankiksa4596 i guess the good thing is with japanese all though the pitch is difficult the actual number of vowels and consonants is really small and they are all relatively easy to pronounce
@YuenXii
@YuenXii 2 жыл бұрын
Bill is looking real swole. Must be all that secret sauce
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
Ikr I gotta get me some too so I dont get mogged so hard by Bill
@jamiehawke2197
@jamiehawke2197 2 жыл бұрын
Shirtless Bill is tempting me 🥵
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
Bills so hot 😍
@user-jd9sj1mq2b
@user-jd9sj1mq2b Жыл бұрын
Important? Yes. But considering alot of learners don't even spend the time to understand the language, pitch accent will do no good. It's like focusing on what kind of tyres you will be using for your car when your car don't even work to begin with.
@AConnorDN38416
@AConnorDN38416 2 жыл бұрын
Who is Bill?
@flareAMVs
@flareAMVs 2 жыл бұрын
Video is so based
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks lad
@user-zs4xn3ut3v
@user-zs4xn3ut3v 2 жыл бұрын
I find it funny how someone can see 90% of people give up before reaching fluency but some people still think they need to add on more study to sound “native” for some reason. Beat the odds first and become fluent then you can worry about it. At least that way you’re fluent and not still in intermediate stages and giving up That’s like spending all day sharpening your sword before you’ve even practiced enough to use it.
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
Ikr its so dumb bruh like you can worry about that stuff if you really want to after you've already progressed significantly in learning the language
@user-sf4nj9mk8w
@user-sf4nj9mk8w 2 жыл бұрын
Completely agree. See these people who are like 6-9 months into learning japanese and they're going on about how they haven't made as much progress as other people and then their solution is to just educate themselves about "the best" methods by reading more refold/ajatt articles about how to learn japanese. Like mate, you're concerned you aren't getting far enough at the pace you want and then your solution is to, instead of continuing to immerse, reading articles telling you to go immerse more.
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
@@user-sf4nj9mk8w most accurate thing ive ever heard ahaha
@rkken
@rkken 2 жыл бұрын
alright who the fuck is bill im seeing this picture everywhere now and i feel so out of the loop lmfao
@jaredprice5823
@jaredprice5823 2 жыл бұрын
Haha Matt vs Japan is selling some sketchy pitch accent course, and they released a website for it. It was a template website and they forgot to update some parts of it, so on one of the pages there was/is this stock information about Bill, and his pictures. He's some business dude. Now he's a meme for pitch accent.
@rkken
@rkken 2 жыл бұрын
@@jaredprice5823 ahh right tyty. never knew there was a website for uproot ive just been watching the discourse from the sidelines. scrolling through it now and laughing my ass off this cannot be fucking real lmaooo
@jaredprice5823
@jaredprice5823 2 жыл бұрын
@@rkken haha yeah it’s crazy. $500 just for the basic package and they claim to double your money back if you’re not satisfied. Super sketchy. If you go to the about page you’ll see old Bill.
@bobfranklin2572
@bobfranklin2572 2 жыл бұрын
@@jaredprice5823 500 bucks and They left bill in there 🤣
@bobfranklin2572
@bobfranklin2572 2 жыл бұрын
@@jaredprice5823 wait is the site taken down?
@yishihara55527
@yishihara55527 2 жыл бұрын
What happens is that people practice pronunciation, see results, and then assume that it was the pronunciation practice that led to the improvement. But in reality, it was the listening they did. They listened a lot and didn't rush output. This is the key. And if there is still an issue, listen more.
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
I agree but rushing output isnt bad in my opinion
@yishihara55527
@yishihara55527 2 жыл бұрын
@@oojiman What opinion?! Do you want to take on Stephen Krashen, arguably one of the most famous linguists alive? At one point, Matt vs. Japan attempted to take him on at one point during an interview regarding pitch accent...that's how arrogant (and in this case, dumb) Matt is. Krashen is old and humble, so he simply conveyed the idea of Matt being a "silly wabbit" without saying it. I think this is one situation where you might want to take off the MMA gloves and have one of your mates buy you a tall, frosty glass of STFU. Krashen is INCREDIBLY intelligent, but since he dumbs way down for the sheeple in order to be accessible, some people start underestimating him. Most people are intellectual ants compared to him and attempting to think otherwise is simply delusional. Rushing output ONLY makes sense if people have an absolute need to communicate in their S2 and are willing to accept various flaws. When speaking a second language, most people sound like they were dropped on their heads shortly after childbirth, even the "amazing" ones. See, the problem is that when you are really close to native sounding but something is a bit "off," the listener starts viewing you not as a super advanced foreigner but more like a native speaker with a speech impediment...or someone who is...dare I say...a little "slow." We have to admit that we are dealing with the impossible. And with Japanese, what makes it worse is that they are not on your side as they are a highly xenophobic people. You might be able to hang out with foreign students or other Japanese in Melbourne, but normally, just like the ones in Japan, they basically want to use foreigners for free Engrrrrrrrish lessons. Many Westerners will try to deny this because they also have ulterior motives. Nothing repulses the Japanese more than foreigners who attempt to speak Japanese. I have friends in Tokyo with some very impressive Japanese skills that will purposely hide the fact that they speak Japanese and start acting like a lost tourist when a hot Japanese girl is around. On the flip side, if a Japanese girl hits on you in Engrrrrish (逆ナン) and you respond in Japanese, in many instances they will immediately walk away or look at you in disgust and then walk away. They do not give a shit about you as a human being with a soul. It's always based on the free Engrrrrrish supply that you have to offer. And it's true that a handful will tolerate listening to our 中途半端な日本語 at times, but there is always a motive behind it.
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
@@yishihara55527 chill bro 😂😂😂
@yishihara55527
@yishihara55527 2 жыл бұрын
@@oojiman You know what I say is true. Perhaps you had a better experience since Kansai is much more gaijin-friendly and laid back than Tokyo. And why on Earth would you want to learn a language like Slovak if you aren't Slovak? Did you meet a Slovak girl in Melbourne or something? LOL I can't tell you how many of those girls head to Australia just to hook up with some blond surfer dude with a van. They temporarily use them to see all the sights, only to spit them out when they're done. Girls like that are all over Instagram. Brutal world, mate. Brutal world. That's why it's important to keep it real.
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
@@yishihara55527 i am slovak bro 😂
@--.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.2508
@--.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.2508 2 жыл бұрын
I just ate dinner ^__^
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
But what did you eat!?!?
@--.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.2508
@--.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.2508 2 жыл бұрын
@@oojiman that’s a secret
@subkulturebeats
@subkulturebeats 2 жыл бұрын
Teaching that the way you learn Japanese is only from immersion but then saying that you won’t learn pitch accent from immersion seems a bit contradictory. 🤷🏼‍♂️
@oojiman
@oojiman 2 жыл бұрын
Ikr its so crazy haha
HOW TO MASTER KANJI IN 3 SIMPLE STEPS【オージマン MASTER CLASS】
17:06
オージマン oojiman
Рет қаралды 7 М.
Дарю Самокат Скейтеру !
00:42
Vlad Samokatchik
Рет қаралды 8 МЛН
- А что в креме? - Это кАкАооо! #КондитерДети
00:24
Телеканал ПЯТНИЦА
Рет қаралды 7 МЛН
Red❤️+Green💚=
00:38
ISSEI / いっせい
Рет қаралды 75 МЛН
THE ONLY WAY TO LEARN JAPANESE GRAMMAR【オージマン MASTER CLASS】
8:50
オージマン oojiman
Рет қаралды 7 М.
How To Manage Japanese With Other Hobbies *FIRST EVER Q&A*
31:05
オージマン oojiman
Рет қаралды 4,7 М.
THIS Is Why You SUCK At Japanese Grammar
7:19
オージマン oojiman
Рет қаралды 4,4 М.
Расширяем словарный запас | Упражнение для богатой речи
8:36
100 Cool Items Fun Vocabulary for Kids
6:59
Little Learner's Hub_Riz
Рет қаралды 357
You Will Fail Learning Japanese
12:55
オージマン oojiman
Рет қаралды 5 М.
FAILED THE JLPT? WATCH THIS | SETBACKS LEARNING JAPANESE
8:35
オージマン oojiman
Рет қаралды 1,8 М.
Why you can't hear Japanese pitch accent
16:09
Matt vs Japan
Рет қаралды 168 М.
Forget words when speaking? Fix it instantly!
13:40
Canguro English
Рет қаралды 483 М.