The virgin emperor vs the chad omeleum

Make the dream guardian look like your character. Except with a dastardly mustache.

Like Bae'Zel said about Mystra "Mystra demands Gale's faith, but has no faith in Gale. Does she not believe Gale can take down the Absolute with his own immense talent? Does she not know of the fierce companion he keeps?" Same applies to the Emperor, he wants us to believe in him, but he doesn't believe in us. Also, Mystra is a groomer. #CancelMystra2024

“I had to hide my true identity because you wouldn’t trust a mind flayer!” “You idiot, did you just ignore me being friendly with Omeleum?”

Can't stop thinking about this one person who made their guardian look like their mom because the only prompt you get when designing them in the game is "you need a guardian, choose one" so they went "alright my mom fits that role I guess." things got awkward real fast lol.

The thing that’s really sus is that when you romance him, and your companions somehow see the whole thing with magic or whatever, he says he’ll erase their memory of it. Like wait, you can do that? Have you erased any of my memories?

My best friend made her Gaurdian Daron from System of the Down. Who she loves. She Is going to be so upset when she realizes she got catfished by a squid.

Both Astarion and the Emperor demonstrate red flags in the beginning (both concealing their true natures, Astarion trying to bite you in your sleep, Emperor encouraging you to consume tadpoles and not explain why, Astarion wants your protection, the Emperor sees you as a means to an end) but the shift is that Astarion comes clean unprompted. He isn’t forced to admit why he befriended/seduced Tav, he openly admits it and then keeps being honest afterwards and is open to your opinion and influence. The Emperor always seems to be forced into situations where he has to reveal the hidden truths. During the seduction scene with the Emperor, he was like “you now know everything there is to know” only to find out that he was Balduran and killed Ansur after that scene. I was just like “oh more secrets; what else are you hiding?” And then when he accuses you of still not trusting him when you want to free Orpheus, I just thought about how I literally had no reason to trust him after he showed again and again that he didn’t trust me.

I will never stop laughing at the fact that when I first played I made the guardian look like my Tav's toxic ex.

He gets even worse when you consider he sent the same dreams/visions to your companions in the beginning. You just proved most susceptible

He may not be inherently evil, but he is ruthlessly pragmatic as most illithid are because at the end of the day, he crosses your boundaries to achieve his goals and doesn't have remorse for tricking you, you are a tool to him a means to an end. So he's not a villain, but he's definitely not a good person.

The difference between the emporer and omelloum is that the emporer is a regular mindflayer, while melly is an illithid arcanist, whos free will is more of his own doing by his adeptness with with arcane magic, which is discouraged in illithid society. When your autonomy comes from another source, it makes sense whyd youd do everything you could to preserve it. Melly doesn't have that problem, since he can defend himself from that kind of influence, especially as his survival against the absolute is more assured to a degree

I find it SO interesting that if you trigger his romance scene, then you're like "Absolutely not, you freak!", he doesn't react with the hurt that you'd normally expect from a character. If that was me, I'd feel insulted, maybe talk about our common goals, even yell at Tav for refusing to be open minded. But instead he shows you what he did to Stelmane, and that honestly terrified me far more than practically anything else in the game. He called her a dear friend, his DEAREST friend, and yet she was nothing more than a meatsack puppet to further his goals. And then he tells you that you're lucky he's "learned" a better method. BUT if you cross him, he's happy to mind control you into submission! I will say though, the monster fuckers won with the romance scene. That was wild.

In my latest play through I discovered that if your character has consumed many tadpoles, if you try to reject the astral tadpole The Emperor will mind control you to force it on you. It was a DC 30 wisdom save that I failed and due to honor mode couldn’t reset. It honestly felt like a huge violation that he forces his tadpole on me because he “knows I want it” due to my past behavior.

A foreshadowing (idk if it counts but it was something my friend and I discussed about) regarding the Emperor and that question, is back at the prologue you have the opinion to fight the Boss Devil with the OP weapon with a mind flayer who seems convincing to ally with. However, once you kill the Devil, the mind flayer turns on you immediately saying among the words of “your services are no longer acquired”

One of the things I like most about the Emperor's design is that if you roleplay as a trusting gullible character and don't push back on him you get all the way to the end with the feeling that he was a pretty swell guy. Like if you think to yourself "Does my character have enough wisdom to see the red flag I see as a player" and play accordingly nothing really comes out.

I think its stupid that when you dont choose his plan he goes "Fine! I am gonna join the thing I hate! hmph" like okay duuude sure buddy, max level fireball

When you politly refuse to sleep with him the narrator also says that you "wish hed tried harder" so I think what the narrator says in that part is deffinetly him manipulating your feelings

Shout out to all my Durges that make the Dream Guardian Alfira

He has quite a few red flags from the beginning. I wasn't surprised how manipulative he was later. And what his role in the Grand Design was. Quite fitting. He got played, too.

You forgot that he will outright refuse to help Minsc, the player has to convince him to do it. All because he tried to manipulate Minsc into joining by pretending to be someone important to him that died a long time ago, so in pettiness cuz Minsc attacked him (lol) he’s like nope I tried he can’t be reasoned with. Like no shit you giant a hole. I tried to role play a character that was more drawn to him but in the end he just pissed me off too much.

Me, who murdered, lied, manipulated, bribed and stole my way through the game: Well, uh, I'm not really in place to judge someone for few misdirections and half-truths...

I love the mechanic of having you make your guardian, It’s brilliant on many levels

Based on Omeluum's behavior and how different it is from the Emperor's as well as the Emperor's relationship with Ansur and Duke Stelmane I'm wondering about whether he is the way he is because Balduran was that way. I'm wondering whether Balduran was really as great as everyone thinks he was. It seems totally possible to me that Balduran was as manipulative and selfish in life as a human as he is as a mind flayer. It could be that that's why he loved being illithid so much. The way we are as an independent mind flayer further backs this up I think, since unless I've misinterpreted it seems like the player character mostly remains themselves. You get the mind flayer urges but can resist them. I wonder if Balduran was just manipulating Ansur the same way he manipulates us and discards him when it's inconvenient. Being a mind flayer just gave him the excuse to act the way he always had always wanted to, maybe.

My first go around I randomized my Guardian until they were scrungly, and decided I wouldn't take tadpoles bc I was sure someone was gonna pop up like "haha I made you do everything, puppetered you so perfectly" and naturally I'm rather defiant to any form of authority. So imagine how I felt when the dream Guardian was like "nooo plz you need these tadpoles so gosh darn bad or you'll die 😢". After I blitzed an avatar of a god no diff no tadpoles. I had already been p sure he was a mindflayer bc of the insistence on tadpoles but I wouldn't have cared if he was open to my very constant suspicions of him. And the only time he makes a move on you is by the time you're already dating someone likely, and he clearly knows it. Not to mention the orpheus situation and the final mindflayer requirement for the crown is OPTIONAL and yet he's like "oh this group that has never failed to take the baddies down just refused to let an entire race suffer and now I know they'll fail me". Hell even the raphael moment. Felt like he was tryna go through my phone. Tldr, lying manipulative domineering tentacle man pressures you to making life altering decisions for his benefit and won't even trust you with any privacy without a fight. He'll turn on you when you're no longer convenient and I'm sure I've dated this person irl.

I always approach him like - you can say whatever you want but I’m doing me angel. My character hooked up with him too. But when it was time to get the hammer - girly I’m getting the hammer. Thanks for the protection tho.

(ENDING SPOILERS) One thing I feel isn't talked about enough is one of the endings you can get when you ally with the Emperor over freeing Orpheus. If you chose to dominate the Netherbrain *alongside him* instead of dominating it yourself, provided you pass the Persuasion check, he will be all "I'm so proud of you. Let's do it!" only to immediately betray you by using the Netherbrain to dominate you and your party. The ending would play out more or less the same as a Tav!Absolute ending, but with the Emperor in charge instead. This more or less convinced me that all of his talk of survival is only true until he's in a position of power and that his main end goal, which he never disclosed to you, is to dominate the Netherbrain. His constant coaxing, flattering and many manipulative antics to get you on his side is probably just because he needed you and to get you to lower your guard into thinking that the two of you can rule together, letting him backstab you when you least expect it after he got what he wanted. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n-CHdq2dxtizdnU.html

I fr just wanted that mind blown achievement

At some point during my playthrough the emperor said something along the lines of "you saw through me" in an impressed tone, and all i could think was "this jerk is playing to my ego now!"

It's incredible to me that the emperor was as stupid as he was. He fucked up in basically every possible way and if you decide you're sick of his shit he just goes off and decides to join the enemy. Really makes me respect the fuck out of Omeluum because clearly it's possible to be a squid that isn't a total piece of shit

I made my guardian look like a mind flayer pretending to be an elf, and it was very fun to pretend to be shocked as my tav.

Honestly, I actually really respected the Emperor for how well crafted his plan was. I respected him enough that I even sided with him on my good paladin durge that was romancing Lae'zel, and convinced her to stay with me. She thanked the Emperor after the Brain was dead. Now she and I are travelling the sword coast, purging creches together.

Personally, I don't see him as "bad" in the sense like gortash or Orin etc. His entire purpose is self preservation. He's selfish, lonely, and manipulative without a doubt and definitely not a good guy. But he's not necessarily evil just wants to live at all costs. We are a tool to ensure his own survival until he believes we will get him killed, then he chooses what he believes will keep him alive. He's kinda textbook narcissistic and lies by omission

As someone wise once said: Emperor Catfish just wants to put his tadpoles in your brain.

I think that these are some very interesting takes, but that you interpreted a couple of things differetnly from how I did: 1. At about 37:00 you asked why The Emperor wouldn't "work with us if he wanted his freedom and to do the right thing?" Simply put, the "right thing" in his mind is whatever guarantees his survival first and his individuality second, because as long as he lives, he has time to gain his freedom. He escaped the Elder Brain's domination once, he can do it again. 2. "He's already a mind flayer and likes being one, so no one's gonna need to make the sacrifice." All true, but he doesn't think that you have his best interests in mind. He believes that he needs to remain in the prism for his own safety, and that Orpheus will kill him if freed, not just because he's a mind flayer, but because he's kept Orpheus captive and effectively enslaved for however long. Not to mention that Orpheus is the son of Gith, who freed the Gith'Yanki from Illithid enslavement, so he's got every reason to want to kill every mind flayer they come across. As such, someone else becoming a mind flayer and taking the risk of being dominated, while he stays nice and cosy with his other greatest threat under lock and key makes total sense for him and his unwillingness to entertain letting Orpheus out does track, even if in hindsight, they might have worked together and as we see in the "Free Orpheus" ending, Orpheus comes to understand that there is at least 1 good mind flayer.

He literally manipulated a woman into submission, he’s a mindflayer, he feeds on people, any humanoid and sentient being available. Mind flayers to survive have to consume everything you are: your memories, your character, everything you are is lost forever for them to feel “sated.” The Emperor uses others as tools of survival, and I cannot stress this enough: he talks of Stelmane as if she had any saying in her relationship with him, he talks about how he cared for her when in reality he made her his thrall, making her suffer unimaginable pain for days or weeks even. He’s a manipulator, a narcissist and a selfish villain. And if not a villain, at least some sort of potential adversary to the cause of good. He even tells that you should thank him he didn’t make us his thralls and instead let us “free” to choose and act. I will always free Orpheus and lead the Githyanki revolution for freedom. No questions about it.

All people who romanced Solas in DAI wept at the Emperor reveal.

The Emperor is manipulative, and frankly, a liar. He is the illithid who infects the player in the opening cutscene (no other Ilithid has his outfit, and the one in the cutscne does, ergo...), and completely lies about Stelemane and his role in her life. Wyll comments on this at one point. Quick note on the Gith fight by the way: If you "kill" the emperor and all the gith, you get a scene where he begs you to spare him. If you don't, you get a game over, so he isn't... *lying*.... then, at least. Basically, dude is crazy evil. Pragmatic and anti-grand design... (mostly), but still evil. His immediate willingness to turn on you at the smallest inconvenience and literally make himself into a mind-slave also makes him an idiot. If not actually just a sleeper agent. I actually liked the character until act 3. Specifically the previous mention of turning himself into a mind-slave for no reason other than "how dare you not do exactly as I say!". He was clearly evil and manipulative up till that point, but he wasn't stupid. Then he went full stupid. I still would have prefered the EA dream visitor twist of it being the tadpole trying to trick you into giving in, but this was fine too. Until the aforementioned issues i have.

He's an extremely high functioning sociopath (yes I know it has a different name now). That's it. He has his goals, he won't compromise on them, he'll ally with you if you align with him and he'll strongarm/destroy you if you're against him. People just aren't used to seeing sociopaths in media that aren't also absolutely maniacal and completely unhinged so they have trouble pinning him down. The TL:DR to dealing with them is understanding that they're hyper rational AND what their goals/rules actually are, then making it very clear to them where you stand in relation to those things (or lying your butt off if you're against them). Will they flip on you (seemingly) out of nowhere? Maybe. But they will never ACCIDENTALLY hurt you. In retrospect my best friend in highschool was a almost certainly a sociopath and we got along great. He once outright asked me why I was never worried to be around him while he was doing stupid knife tricks or making deadpan threats and I just looked at him like he was an idiot and said "because you're smart enough to never hurt me unless I give you a good reason to, too careful to do it by accident, and obviously I know that, so I'm not gonna give you a reason to unless you do something REALLY stupid" and it was the only time I've ever seen him speechless. Lasted about 5 seconds then he laughed and said "You're right" and we moved on. And you know what, he was a fantastic group partner, always did his end of the work, never missed deadlines, was always easy to work with. Can't say that about normal people, that's for damn sure, lol. So back to the Emperor, my previous experience dealing with his type let me clock him real early. He's a fantastic character, and the best depiction of this kind of person I've seen in a game so far. IMO the single weird out of character questionable writing moment I've seen from him is when I SPOILERS BELOW - freed Orpheus and he went "well now we have no chance against the Elder Brain, I won't even try to work with Orpheus, screw my freedom I'm going back to being a slave because I'd rather live". Even then that might not really be OOC, I might've just thought he prioritized freedom over life when really it was always survival over everything else.

I interpreted his pressure to use tadpoles in part as an unconscious desire to make you more like him so he feels better about himself. If he’s brought you into it with him, it must not be so bad, right? Maybe it’s even good! His stories about his past plus what the dragon had to say suggests he’s faced a lot of rejection, disgust , and hate for bringing something he didn’t want to be. He is also a victim. And, sometimes victims want to make others victims to feel less bad. He clearly has a temper, but mostly keeps it contained. I think he lost that temper or felt great shame and self hatred when Stelmane rejected him like Ansur did. And, he lashed out. Because, he IS a mobster even if he doesn’t want to be. He’s a monster and a victim of monsters.

The thing about the Emperor is that he (I'm using he/him since the Emperor is technically it/its, but that's more confusing) is essentially a metaphor for power gaming. He isn't there to enjoy the characters or to have immerse himself in the world and the story, he's there to roll some d20s and get as many bonuses on his skill checks as possible. He lies to you when it's optimal for him to do so, he never deals full truths and he expects you to act predictably, getting confrontational when you don't. He is determined to get to the end of the story and if you don't help him achieve that goal, you serve no purpose to him. He doesn't hold actual values as he often implies to do, even the "romance" scene is just a charisma skill check for him. He doesn't hold genuine affection for you, he just wants to see the outcome. What really gives it away is his relationship with Gortash. For him, Gortash is someone who enslaved him. However, when the opportunity to get to the end of the story without having to fight the guy pops up, he immediately urges you to consider it. He suggests that you team up with the guy who literally enslaved him, because it means he'll get through the content faster and easier. He asks you to trust him at every point, but the moment you suggest releasing Orpheus he reciprocates 0% of the trust and joins what he considers the "winning side." If you do team up with him and get to the end, you can ask him about taking control of the Netherbrain and he admits to having considered it, but ultimately thought it'd be too difficult. He rejects the idea because it'd be too inconvenient, not because he thinks enslaving and killing the population of the entire Sword Coast is morally wrong. He is someone who has played Dungeons and Dragons for 25 years and doesn't care about any of the story or the set dressing anymore. He just wants to get through the campaign as easily as possible.

It’s funny,I see people so often excuse the emperor treatment of Stelmane for so many reasons but it’s always the people who have experienced different forms of abuse who call out “no hey this some very gross behavior and isn’t actually romantic.” Mindflayer morality IS a strange thing but the fact that being like ommeleum can exist I think are a great argument to the emperor is certainly lacking in many departments

Never trust a squid face. If you read Belynne Stelmane's entry in Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus, you'll see that she's being controlled by a mind flayer. And judging by what the copper dragon told you, the Emperor had betrayed everyone up until that point in the game.

My favourite quote about the Emperor is what Lae’Zel says at the ending when you say you should speak to the Emperor and hear what he has to say before freeing Orpheus. ‘The fact that you even entertain this ghaik shows you have learned nothing from our time together’. Because she’s right. The Emperor was manipulating you all along. The game really, really should have had an option in the ending where you can confront the Emperor about him probably being the one to infect you to begin with. There’s a note in a vault that basically confirms it. Because what likely happened was that Shadowheart got the Prism from the Gith, the Emperor’s nautiloid found her with the Prism and she got kidnapped by the Emperor and infected, along with all the other companions and the player character, since the Emperor saw use for them. But there, the Emperor felt his free will return due to Orpheus’ power so went inside the Prism. But yeah, he’s a manipulative narcissistic sociopath and only reveals the full truth when he absolutely has to. Whatever Balduran was is dead.

I was cautious about the Emperor ever since my dream guardian encouraged me to start eating more tadpoles, but I still worked with him. Due to my less-than positive feelings about any gith not named Lae'zel, I sided with the Emperor and didn't free Orpheus (had to convince Lae'zel that this was for the best lol) but it wasn't until after I finally joined some BG3 groups did I realize just how bad he was

I believe the Emperor is true neutral. His first priority is survival, his second is the exercise of power. When he was partially in charge, controlling Stelmane, he wasn't using his power to commit mass murder, infect everyone with tadpoles, or create the best possible city that he could. An an Illithid, he is tame for his kind. Manipulation is *how* they communicate. Ommelumn is a bizarre and fascinating exception. He doesn't really care if you save the grove or kill everyone, ultimately he decided that you are his best chance to destroying the elder brain. Notice, if you ally yourself with him, he actually does destroy the Elder Brain. After that he leaves you and your group unmolested. His tactics are unsavory, but considering what he is, I don't think he is that bad.

a bit of a caviat around the 8 minute mark is that Gale is all for using the tadpole. There is not persuation check needed you just have to speak with him and he's willing to use them as with Astarion. If your looking for another character that is similar to Shadowheart its Wyll. Wyll expresses in your conversation with him that he's tempted to use its power, which makes sense as he's been willing to accept unsavory power to protect the lives of innocents before. As a player however I will never make Shart, Wyll, Karlach, or Lae'zel use illithid powers because that's just wrong.

For me any nuance went out the window when he revealed the Stelmane stuff. His response to being called out on doing some really heinous stuff is basically "arent you glad I didnt do it to you?" Which is just... so so evil I cant justify believing he is anything but delusional, if not an outright villain.

The emperor is like the annoying kid in the group project that absolutely no one wants to work with but he knows all the answers so you have to suck it up

I find it very interesting that people reiterate that mind flayers don’t have emotions and then we can see him supposedly showing emotion. I realized that he understands what emotions look like and how to use it to control others. The other mind flayer I feel doesn’t show emotions and approaches the player as calm collected and approaches things logically.

Didn't want to kill the Emperor but Laezel is more important to me. And what happens with the Gith is a lot more important than one mindflayer.

I just wanna say, THANK YOU SO MUCH for this video. I've seen a lot of people saying "The Emperor's manipulation isn't that bad, everyone manipulates other people", and I was starting to doubt if my views on him were wrong. But you video really put everything I was feeling about the situation into words, and I finally have something to point people to when they say "He isn't that bad". Also, I really hate how in order for him to see you as truly "on his side", you need to have the same view as him towards "the end justifies the means" aka survival is more important than anything else, be it your loss of free will, the risk in consuming tadpoles (like, risk to you soul based on Withers saying Mind Flayers don't have souls), and the possible damning of an entire race (consuming Orpheus who could oppose Vaakith and free the Githyanki from her tyranny). He doesn't care about your comfort, doesn't care about your relationship(s), doesn't care about any of your companions and THEIR goals. He only cares about not dying. And if you're playing you Tav/Durge/Origin character with a heroic journey in mind, you might see your own death as the price you're willing to pay in order for people to keep their free will and humanity (or gnomishness... or elvenity.... heck)

He straight tells you he's manipulating you if you keep being antagonist towards him.

Good analysis! People will argue about his character till the end of time because he lies to us so much, both directly and by omission, that it's practically impossible to tell when he's telling the truth. It's impossible to say what's going through his head and what he's thinking, so we can't say for certain just how bad he was. But for me personally... yeah, he made his own bed. He made it impossible for me to trust him because he lied so many times. I'd understand if he was worried that I wouldn't accept an illithid, but like... .he saw how I interacted with Omeluum. He knew I can be reasonable. But he still hid his identity. He also knew just what is underneath Moonrise but didn't care to mention it. That would have been nice to know. He was also very vague about how he was feeding. He did say he only fed on criminals, but like... in his own flashback that guy looked like a petty thief. All this makes me wonder... if you side with him in the end and he survives, how much of a problem is going to be now? How many more is he going to manipulate, mind rape or gods now what? As a sidenote, I'm currently playing Shadowheart origin, and I made the Guardian look like Nocturne. It adds an interesting twist to the whole shitshow. He's actively choosing to make himself look like the one person Shadowheart trusted in her past. Even if she can't remember Nocturne at the moment, it might still make it more likely for her to let her guard down. It makes it extra creepy and manipulative.

my redeemed Durge gave him a second chance, but when it came to Orpheus he wouldn't budge so he didn't make it far after that lol.

I’m so glad I found this video. You got great BG3 analysis. Our blorbo brain worms are doing clown to clown communication. Jokes aside I think I have a perspective on the emperor that I don’t often see people talk about. There’s plenty of books and hidden material in the game that give us insight into Illithids. One of them that stood out the most to me just flat out talks about how Illithids are creatures of illusion, trickery, deception, manipulation, and LOGIC. And The Emperor brings this up all the time and to try not to judge him for it. Another big one is that a book mentions the only time somebody should ever consider working with an Illithid is if you have goals that align. And even then you have to tread carefully because it might not end how you think. Those are the big keys to analyzing the emperor for me. I don’t think he’s a villain. But he definitely does not have our best interest in mind. We’re a variable to his plan. While he’s trying to act like he’s on our side and cares about us, really he cares about putting a stop to the Elder Brain and has done all the MATHS in his head and thinks this is one of the only ways to do it. Since he’s a creature of logic he does not account for the clutch factor and miracle powers we have as protagonists. We got the plot armor and he doesn’t know or doesn’t want to risk it. Which is fitting for the folly of a character like him. He coulda put more trust in us as a “Variable” to his plan and been less manipulative. But he dare not risk it. Even after we kill Raphael? Lmao. What a dummy. I haven’t looked deep into Omuleem (hope that’s how you spell it) but he’s kinda just vibing, doing his own thing, etc. His goals relate to the Underdark and The Society. There’s no NEED for him to manipulate the PC’s in anyway. He has nothing to gain. However, I’m curious if he would act in a similar way were he the one in the emperors place? Little things like that. He’s a good squid but he also occasionally has lines that remind me of”I should not treat him like a bro and assert human traits onto him.” When you first meet him he’s like “Sorry I couldn’t do anything. There’s some interference with the tadpole. If you transform I’ll gladly give you another analysis.” Like after pleading with him to deal with our tadpoles that just comes across as overly cold and logical, lol. But he’s just acting true to his nature as an Illithid in that moment. TL;DR I think Emperor isn’t a villain, but he’s too alien for us to trust and he’s proven to be extremely manipulative and callous in his life as an Illithid. He is to be kept at arms length because his plans do not account for what’s “Best” for us. But what’s best to execute his scheme.

I have only completed the game once and had him take the power from Orpheus but I felt super bad about that. Next time I won’t do that and find another way.

Something you kind of glossed over with the choice he presents you with to either trust him or kill him as the dream guardian, was the fact that it wasn't a real choice at all, just a manipulation. You did a good job analyzing how he uses it to turn it around on you if you do try to kill him, but it's also important to note that even giving you that illusion of choice is a tactic.

i always find emperor discussion so interesting, since depending on your views he can have all sorts of alignments and it’s always interesting to hear how others view the squid man that said i think he simply wanted to live no matter the cost and i personally can’t paint him as evil for that, even if it occasionally conflicted with my goals in-game if you choose it, he can be an antagonist, but i don’t think he can ever be a villain

Despite his ruthless methods, treatment of Stelmane and manipulation, I was willing to spare him. Until Orpheus. I could not save the universe and simultaneously condemn the githyanki to tyranny. My paladin would not abide it. At that point I realized Balduran was going to die because he had abandoned too much of his humanity to see beyond his calculations and logic, and could not accept I could simply change Orpheus' mind by talking. I don't hold any ill will against him, but the irony of his death served as a cautionary tale: be careful what you give up when you change, and never lose perspective.

I like the Emperor and his story, but I still kinda wish they'd kept the Dream Visitor as your tadpole and the mechanic that using your Ilithid powers too much would leave you dreaming "down down down by the river" while the tadpole ate your brain and turned into an adult mindflayer. As the story is now, you only have role play and cosmetic reasons to avoid using ilithid powers and eating tadpoles. So long as you don't choose to transform, you never have to. I also don't know how I feel about how muddy the mindflayer lore has gotten. Some in game and out of game sources point to the adult mindflayer being the tadpole. Any memories or personality traits of the host it retains are just things it absorbed while eating the host's brain. But when Durge or Tave become a Mindflayer, we don't get a sense that our character died and was replaced; it plays out like a transformation. The only sign of what our character has lost comes at the reunion party, where Mindflayer Durge or Tav keeps wanting to eat our friend's brains. Heck, for Durge, that's not even that much of a change.

"if it wasn't the emperor it would have been more fun to play through" should have been omeluum

I mean, he spends the whole game telling you lies and half-truths with the explicit goal of manipulating you. That's not the behavior of a good person.

On one hand, The Emperor is absolutely a self-serving manipulative weirdo who is basically treating you as a pawn in his grand chess game against the Illithid Empire and the Githyanki Empire. On the other, we as the player are extremely aloof and absolutely go out of our way to basically be distracted by every other thing that comes to our attention. The moment the player gets to Baldur's Gate, they are immediately distracted by: -Every companion's personal bullshit going on -Every random stranger with a problem -The Devil making you a self-serving offer that absolutely will not be good for anyone ultimately -The expansionist xenophobic Githyanki dissidents coming in and suggesting "Hey ditch your guy and join us" -The distinct possibility that you are also evil -The fact that these powers are actually pretty helpful and you basically refuse to eat any of these tadpoles that give you superpowers -You poking around in his personal beefs from forgotten lifetimes ago He definitely deserves a bit of grace seeing as you are the wild card weirdo that's risking their life a million times over and not getting closer to saving the day, especially when you're walking right up to the gate itself stop it it's strongest there it'll pop your brain! He's definitely Lawful Neutral, he is a huge bastard, would prefer the status quo, manipulates you every step of the way to get what he wants. But what he wants is to protect the status quo, and to get his own independence from an incredible evil.

Gale is as willing to use the tadpole power as Astarion, just less vocal. Shadowheart is definitely opposed the it and Wyll starts off opposed but quickly starts being open minded to it.

i feel like for a lot of players, we know the signs of manipulation and know whats going on, which is definitely something larian planned for but im not sure if they knew just how many people would not trust the emperor to the end

As soon as he told me “your a puppet and you’ll do exactly what I tell you to.” That dude was dead for me

There's so much i did miss in story, grate material. Personally when i was making a guardian, i didn't go with attractive appearance. I made some who will look knowledgeable and experienced, someone who will protect and guide. And i think it make whole manipulation even more twisted.

Oh the Emperor is as I see it Neutral Evil, or Neutral at best, he tadpoles us in the cinematic and proceeds to manipulate us into being his thrall. However, given the history of the Githyanki people, who are also Neutral Evil, and also Neutral at best, even with Orpheus being the son of Gith. I think that's done deliberately, that neither choice is obviously good, but up to the player's own preferences.

I was always confused about the timeline of The Emperor cause he said he was the first to find the Astral Prism at Gortash’s behest and when he found it he went into it. So connecting the dots with him being the abductor and when he came into contact with shadowheart made complete sense. Loved this video!

Just discovered your channel and it's really refreshing to hear another perspective on this. I just finished the game and this was a plot point that definitely had me stumped for awhile. Wonderful video, and amazing insight! Much thanks!!

One of the most telling moments of dialogue with the Emperor actually comes from your first interaction with the Dream Guardian, and immediately set me against trusting them. When you first meet them, the Dream Guardian says, "There is great potential within you. It comes from the tadpole." This IMMEDIATELY set me on edge, as the Emperor plays his hand so readily in this moment - he lets you know right away that he does not care about your humanity, but rather the illithid power you carry. It's such a blink-and-you-miss-it moment, but after that single line, I completely lost any ability to trust the Emperor.

I still don't know how I feel about the Balduran reveal - it just feels so random? Like what is it supposed to signify or suggest on a narrative or literary level? It's just too out of left field for me to wrap my head around

Might be a hot take, but larian doesn't actually write some of their characters. Some of them are just archetypes that kinda write themselves. Astarion is an anne rice vampire. Lae'zel is a klingon, etc. The emperor is an emotionally abusive boyfriend in a WE movie. He's only good to you if you do what he wants, if not, he bullies you. I remember at one point the dude was worried I would deviate from the plan and he just plainly told me I was nothing without him lol. I remember thinking "i'm gonna break this guy's legs as soon as I get him out of that lego brick" Having a bias against people like that is NOT a bad thing, it's the only way you can prevent them from manipulating you.

The Emperor literally tells you you are his puppet… he's DEFINITELY bad. Plus, he doesn't have a soul - just the memories of Balduran.

Great video !

I want to expand upon some aspects of illithid behavior. The Illithiad, a book entirely dedicated to mind flayer anatomy, needs, behavior, and society, is really illuminating. But first, this is an old book. Its from the AD&D days, so there may be some questions on how up to date it is. So let me point towards the Avatar of Bane. In AD&D, the Avatar of Bane is usually a person, possessed by Bane. They become charismatic and able to rally people to their side, as well as gaining black, greasy hair. Look at Gortash. Gortash isnt the avatar yet, but he *is* the chosen. He is charismatic and sweet talking, got the city to like him, and has greasy black hair. Though he’s not the avatar until he calls for Bane’s aid in combat, at which point he becomes a more powerful avatar for combat. And itt isnt Gortash who will speak to you when you cast speak with dead. Bane himself speaks through his corpse. So old lore is still largely canon. There are surely more examples of old elements of lore remaining, and the predecessors to BG3 are set in these older editions. Now, the illithiad details many things that are eerily reminiscent of some vibes the Emperor gives off. Some things you might question are actually kind of answered by the book. You wondered how genuine his grief with Stelmane was. The illithiad details how mind flayers view their thralls. They often have a favorite they pick out and have special feelings towards. If that thrall dies, they often take time to grieve, even if it delays progress toward their goals. They might try to find a new one to become the favorite. Lets look at BG3 again. At the start of the game, when the dream visitor pops up, everyone shares in this phenomenon, and shares their thoughts. Then they force “only the leader” to come see them in the prism. Then they begin confiding in you. Nobody else notes this. Its only you they confide in. Then it comes out theyre a mind flayer and then they reveal their old partner and stuff. Then they show grief at her death. Then he reveals she was nothing more than a puppet. She was the favorite thrall. Guess who the new one is? Next, what he did with his freedom. The knights of the shield. To someone whos never heard of them, this sounds cool. A secret group doing trade and keeping the city safe or whatever. But theyre not knights, and their name is nothing more than a facade. The knights of the shield are a cult of a demigod of greed and former archdevil. They control trade across the coast, from amn to waterdeep, and they are lawful evil by D&D categorization. Back to the illithiad, it notes how mind flayers often sneak into large groups of people, and find ways to gain authority over them, be it discreetly influencing them psychically, or by straight up enthralling someone in a leadership position and puppeteering them. So, the duke Belynne Stelmane, a duke of the gate and leader of the secret capitalism cult, is the perfect target. And he exploited the hell out of this for sure. Stelmane was of immense influence, and someone of her status being under the influence of a mind flayer is terrifying. Then guess what empy says hes off to do when the city is saved? Hes gonna rebuild the knights. The evil cult of greed. Yeah, real convenient he leaves out the “worshipping a former archdevil” part. Also, the stelmane thing is not at all him lying, this is canon and there are loads of pointers. First, books around his hideout allude to it. Theres one that notes her condition and tracks her getting worse, its some medical record of some kind. Theres another that details someone who came to check on her and thought they saw some ominous figure levitating behind her. Nail in the coffin, Descent into Avernus, the prequel module based around the events that lead to the tiefling refugees’ perils, notes Belynne Stelmane, a duke of Baldur’s Gate, suffered a stroke but the true affliction was in fact, a mind flayer attack. So theres no doubt he did it. This has been confirmed for five years, long before release. Another confirmed detail is that he’s the one who infected us and is the missing pilot of the nautiloid. Firstly, his armor is near identical. Second, a note from Gortash details a plan to steal the prism by sending the emperor with a team of thralls. Third, the artifact doesnt have a radius. This is discussed in the video, it has to be channeled. He could not possibly have been broken out into freedom, he had to be let free by the brain. The brain confirms this, and emperor backs it up and admits he was played. Also, shadowheart obtained the prism from the gith. Her cloister sent her alongside a team to get it, shes the only survivor. She got it. She had it until she was kidnapped by the mind flayers. It was sometime during the chase and right after the cinematic when we and laezel gain control and freedom that he got in the prism and sent its power out to all the to-be thralls most capable and got them to safety to form his team. I dont mark him infecting us against him, he wasnt in control. I DO mark him not telling us, because there’s always a lot of inconvenient truths he doesnt tell us unless its forced, and this is one thats never forced. Especially given that Gortash doesnt know the emperor is even alive. Im pretty sure he also dies before empy steps in to help if you try to dominate the brain with him. So, back to the illithiad, i think ive made a case for how close his behavior aligns with standard mind flayer behavior, but there’s one last thing i want to note. Going by largely canonical sources, the Emperor, is NOT, in fact, Balduran. Say what you will of what Balduran may have actually been like, whatever “never meet your heroes” stuff and the pretentious and shitty trials of the wyrmway, none of that actually matters to the Emperor. They are not the same. This sounds obviously wrong, but let me elaborate The illithiad states on ceremorphosis that the first state is the parasite attaching itself to the brain. Over the next hour, it devours the brain and attaches itself to the brain stem, replacing it. This is the end. Thats it. That aint you anymore, you are dead. Your soul is sent to the city of judgement and the mind flayer in waiting goes around doing thrall things. So everyone THINKS you have seven days to live, but in reality, this tadpole is in stasis. If it werent, youd be dead right away. The only way to stop ceremorphosis is to destroy it before the brain is completely gone, and the damage can then be healed with a powerful healing spell. Like how using the Heal spell restores memories to the dark urge. Balduran is dead. Like, dead dead. It would take a true resurrection and his soul being willing to bring him back, and you could do this with the emperor alive, as it would create a new body for him as his old one is completely destroyed, having been replaced with illithid flesh. The Emperor is not Balduran. The Emperor has partialism. Partialism is usually small, it causes an illithid to retain some mannerism of the host, like rapping fingers or a little tick of some kind. These are usually deemed impure and dont get some honors normal illithid do. But there is a horror story to illithid, and a glimpse of hope for their would-be victims. A rumor of the possibility of full partialism. An illithid that retains its host’s memory and personality. This is thought to be impossible. And yet, we have a normal mind flayer, with every memory and some glimpse of what it was like to be Balduran. The Emperor is a full-partialized illithid, using their memory to pretend to be human. Because their host was someone of exceptional power and a strong personality. But even still, the emperor is the tadpole that infected balduran. Not the man himself.

On my first playthrough I went along with most of what he wanted, except doing the creche. I was rping a good guy paladin, using the tadpoles and transforming so no one else had to risk it (unless they wanted to on their own). At the reveal I looked at it like "ok, I guess people's soul energy gets turned into mind energy when they become mindflayers. As long as he has his mortal memories and reason I can work with that." Getting more context through more playthroughs, he's...not evil to me, more like he just is what he is. Pure logic with a desire for autonomy.

I always make my dream guardian look like my past character so theres still a little bit of manipulation left even after i know the full story.

well, according to quantum relations, if i stab a squid and in the end they reveal that this was all a ruse to take advantage of my human side (flaws maybe), is it really wrong to stab the squid?

Damn love your t-shirt! 💕 Emperor just gives me 'abusive boyfriend' vibes and I can't unsee it. The manipulation, emotional abuse, the trickle truth, deception about his identity and cat-fishing, all with the goal to make you more like him (ilithid). Which again is something abusive partners often do. Strip you of your own identity so they can shape a new one. He was even worse in early access when the dream sequences were very 'suggestive'. Just yikes. I wanted to like him because I like monsters and such, but I can't. Meanwhile the actual nice mindflayer Omeluum just wants to go on adventures with his husband and I love him and will to the whole iron throne quest just to save him.

Me - "Bro, we can just let out Orpheus just to make sure, see this githyanki with me is okay with me being illithid" The Emperor- "NO, i will now side with the Elderbrain, and wont even give you a chance"

24:00 The mind flayer in the intro cinematic does not have the same head or cloth as the Emperor, and even if he did (excluding at least the Dark Urge), he was already under the orders of the Absolute. In the goblin camp, you have two lines of dialogue that contradict each other depending on whether you killed the boss before speaking with the mind flayer corpse: _ Narrator: *There's no doubt - this ghaik is responsible for your parasite. And it's waiting for your questions.* _ Narrator: *This mind flayer's build is smaller, its garb plainer - a fearsome creature even in death, but not the one that tormented you.* *Yet it, too, roamed the nautiloid. It would have seen you, known you...* And… there's a D&D game card from 2022 "Illithid Harvester" : "your mind belongs to the Emperor now", do what you want of this 31:00 Not sex but you got an additional the line at the beginning if you interact a bit too long with the dying mind flayer on the beach: Narrator: *Warm, wet tentacles wrap themselves around your head, and for the first time in your life...* *... you're perfectly happy.* 33:29 You could expect to build a close complicity with the Emp and develop a special mind bond with him if you're already half-illithid. However, you get nothing, you have even fewer dialogue lines since he doesn't need to convince you to do what he wants. Yes, the Emperor wants to survive, and then achieve freedom. However, too many people choose to forget that he was ruling the city from the shadows. Considering his letters at the epilogue, the more comfort he gets, the more power he will try to accrue! Dude is trying to transform Faerûn into North Korea by the end of my run.

The emperor, imo, doesn't get the mind flayer excuse for being an evil asshole, since Omeluum is nice and lawful neutral, whose major motivation is helping the underdark become a better place.

you should totally make an analysis vid on wyll!! ^_^

emperor joining the absolute is actually a tantrum lol

Emperor: "that devil is trying to give you a raw deal. That's MY job!"

Dude's about his own self-preservation. To The Emperor, no principle is more sacred than preserving his own freedom, however, he will oblige some morality should it not hinder him unnecessarily. As someone who's played too many D&D Characters, I respect the hustle. He lies to you as an Illithid, because you just had your brain tadpoled, and admitting himself to be a Mind Flayer before you even meet The Society of Brilliance, and are introduced to the idea of a "good" Mind Flayer. As he said himself, Illusion is the language of Illithids, and even after lying compulsively through the entire length of the game, should you trust him to consume Orpheus, Homie just bounces after the Absolute is dealt with.

short answer? yeah.

I wish the emperor didn't betray us at the very end, I wish they gave us a persuasion check to make him stay with us.

This was a great analysis of the Emperor and themes of the abuse and manipulation I didn’t fully realize. Awesome job and thank you for giving me a new perspective on this character. 👍

My main thing is keeping in mind that Emperor isn’t “Balduran, who got tadpoled and is now a mind flayer”, Emperor is specifically “the tadpole who now wears Baldurans memories and personality”, as needed to further its goals. It’s emotions aren’t real, they’re a tool. It’s empathy isn’t real, it’s a tactic. There’s an interaction as you start to be able to tease the possibility of romance with him, if you deny ihim, you have an internal dialogue along the lines of “man, it’s kind of disappointing how cold and disinterested he is immediately as he realizes the romance play won’t work on me”. Because, he doesn’t actually want romance, he’s using the idea of romantic interest to string you along if it’s something we would value. It gives him leverage.

The emperor was honest about stoping the orders for the players to transform, so much so that if you go against them, the absolute instantly turns you.

I knew that BG3 had this major theme of abusive relationships, how abuse happens and perpetuates - but I had viewed the emperor as more of someone who had broken down under the abuse, not as an abuser himself. But damn is this reasoning well-founded and plausible. I may need to revisit or even replay the game, looking at it from this angle!

The thing that always bothered me was that if you failed your deception check against him when you're done talking with Raphael he literally says I'm going around your autonomy and read your mind and then starts lecturing you. The Emperor is so gross.

Never trusted it since it spoke it's first words.

The biggest thing about the Emperor - you first "meet" him in the intro cinematic. He is the one who puts tadpoles in the our team's brains. Look for MTG "Battle for Baldur's Gate" card set. As "Illithid Harvester" flavor text goes. "Your mind belongs to the Emperor now."

He seems more evil when he comes clean about his real "partnership" with Duke Stelmann, how he dominated her and turned her into his puppet. Subtly threatening the character that if he so chose that could have happened to the player character as well.

Ty for this video! I wanted to save him so badly because he's my favorite. There is something about him, he interacts in a way that is different from all the other characters in the game. He really is working with YOU, or at least it feels that way up until the end, and I wish so much I could have an ending that justified my savior complex with him. You blew my mind with the free-with-purchase trauma though, that is so true! I never thought about it that way but he really is Tav's traumatic story.

I'm not done with the video yet, but your perspective of the narrative seems flawed to me, You are looking at how the story unfolds from the perspective of the player and I don't think that's right. For example: "Emperor pushes you to use tadpoles which is bad", as a player, sure, you can just reload the game in case you die, so who cares if the game is a bit harder? But if you put yourself into the shoes of you character, then tadpoles, while risky, can vastly increase your chance of survival and Emperor knows that. Emperor tries to save the world and himself, obviously he wants you to be as strong as possible, gimping yourself while the fate of the whole world rests on your shoulders isn't the wisest idea to say the least. Also, slighting Emperor for guilt tripping you for trusting Vlaakith, a genocidal lich queen is pretty silly to me As for the Raphael blocking Emperor from reading your thoughts, you omitted the option that the game gives you, to tell Emperor that what happened is none of his deal, and if you remind you of how he always goes on about trust and should fuck off, he will agree to not pry further. And the going to the House Of Hope thing is once again perfectly reasonable, you are on the cusp of saving the world and choose to go fight a devil that will most likely kill you and condemn the whole world to thralldom. The swap up at the end of the game also makes sense to me, Emperor can and will help you defeat the brain, yet you chose to free Orpheus that will kill Emperor either immediately or after the brain has been dealt with, he broke out of the brain's control before, so he chooses to make a gamble. Emperor is a manipulative asshole, but he isn't malevolent towards you.