What does that mean to you?

@@RobertaPeck how many times have you heard the phrase "oh, she must have been asking for it?" more times than should be said in any society it's not usually put in those words. sometimes it "why was she out so late?" "why was she alone in that neighborhood?" "how much had she been drinking?" it's a way of excusing horrible actions and unfortunately too many women say these words as well as men because of our conditioning. it's no different in the black community. rather than looking at how 400 years of enslavement and being put down with force means that many many excuses have been made for why black people still suffer there are always those how say "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" while also electing politicians who do their best to cut off black people's metaphorical legs.

@@luisostasuc8135 why are all your examples based on women?

@@RobertaPeck That Baldwin recognizes that the Oppressors wants him to be stupid, and go along with the lies, to deny what he clearly sees and hears FOR HIMSELF. Nice try, but he wasn't about to do any of that. People need to read his writings.

Exactly! And it’s still relevant today... Perpetrating the attack of the perpetrator on oneself.

Tyler. Powerful observation by you. I believe you are 100% correct!

Some people don't get the context of this conversation. Hardly anyone on television back then would have had James Baldwin on in the first place. Dick Cavett was coming from a very, very good POV. He gave Baldwin a forum where people in the public who might not have ever heard him were exposed to his brilliance and principles and righteous anger. Cavett was probably framing some of his questions based on what he thought might elicit answers that would get through to the audience. He appreciated James Baldwin and was sincerely and respectfully trying to open up dialogue that would serve as a lesson for white Americans.

This conversation is so relevant today. Baldwin saw the reality so clearly. His eloquence is beautiful

- I am heartened that we are seriously searching for answers here on KZfaq. It is easier for me to accept James Baldwin’s erudite remarks than essentially the same message from angry social activists today. It may be that Baldwin governed his passion for Cavett’s largely white, late night audience.

yes! . . . what if more of us could admit we need more clarity, if more of us could make room for actually hearing something new, something that challenges us a bit even. What if we were more concerned with understanding than being understood . . . . Radical change would have to occur.

This type of interview simply can't happen on mainstream TV.

Dick Cavett looks so uncomfortable with what Mr. Baldwin is saying. But has enough intestinal fortitude to ask for clarification. He was expecting a denouncing of the violent rhetoric and instead got an explanation why it was happening.

@@gillsmoke Agreed. I personally don't expect people to carry guilt of sins they didn't commit. Although some wishful thinking keeps us from admitting some really hard to swallow truths. Or we may start imagining that things are magically getting better. In this video, the host becomes increasingly shook as the interview goes on. That effect can't be observed if the person listening to what Baldwin says ignores completely. Even though racial rhetoric is age old, listening it directly from a well educated wise black man and internalising it even partially can make the listener introspect.

please, fight for this, this to be our normal interaction again!!

I always had respect for Dick Cavett. He always showed respect to his guests.

But you could tell even then he’s tired of people being so stupid and oblivious

G D Yes, much of it is willful ignorance. And this willful ignorance brings comfort because it is disturbing to witness that your privilege comes with the cost of destroying other people’s lives

The grace he possessed through the anger… The wisdom. He was special.

It helps that dick is a good person compared to most white people lol

You blithering half wits acting like any of the questions were illegitimate considering his rhetoric is truly the most mainstream thing running rampant today.

I wouldn't dare to try not loving James Baldwin.

...a brilliant mind

Can't help but respect the man. (And let's not forget how brilliant a writer he was.)

@Deese Knutz if you're black & don't understand, let's talk about it. If you're white & don't understand, that's a different thing.

Damn right

Who are you?

"I don't want anything from you." (Except enough reparations to destroy the economy so China can buy America.)

When James Baldwin said that I was thinking; "the people of the BLM movement would throw his ass out on the street for even thinking such things". Of course most people in the BLM movement are white liberals.

@@gj4578 so well said...its all about power

well stated

@Jim Hope Hi Jim. I think, at the time, Mr. Baldwin meant it in a broader way. Like, the police were there to keep them in line, under control as a whole, in order to protect what white people value. To keep their despair contained in their black neighborhoods and out of white neighborhoods. The police system wasn't set up to protect black people, it was set up to protect white people. The mentality of that system continues to this day...

@@MrAndMrsAlohaFriday - you profoundly get it! Trying to educate the Jim Hopes of the world is wasted words. Jim Hope is clueless by making such a statement is so naive and/or ignorant. He can only imagine what happens if you are black and you call the police to protect your property . . . . . HA! If he ever did it, he'll not do it a second time for sure.

@Jim Hope google "redlining"

@@burner1303 redlining ... protecting property values and 'good schools' ...

You are so right - very important moment in this interview. The direct relevance to attitudes today is astounding. Cavett, who's about as open-minded as you can get on TV, was completely flabbergasted by that line but today, it makes perfect sense.

My thoughts exactly

Baldwin should be read and taught in all schools in this country. He was a genius artist.

Too much truth.

I say the same. Smh

“ history is written by the winners” this is HOW the dominant culture( white) keeps ALL Americans ignorant of the truth of black genius. Baldwin is one of the first to speak truth to power. Just look at Cavett’s face. This is the FIRST time he has ever even heard this! ( by the way, I am NOT a person of color)

Kel Kel, I agree. However, Cavett seemed out of step and somewhat tone deaf in the interview.

I haven't heard anything recently that even comes close in eloquence.

@@devo196047 Baldwin's entire point was that eloquence isn't needed. His eloquence, and the idea of eloquence to you is fundamentally based in what white culture quantifies as being such. To ask for eloquence or else not listen is an example of racism, and certainly white supremacy. To not listen to the very same points but conveyed in a non-conventionally-white form of eloquence is to fail to understand Baldwin. You should not admire him for his way with words, unless you are analyzing his poetry, but the substance of his words, his ideas. In whatever form they be.

@@God-mb8wi THIS!

White people also continues to dismiss this truth, as if all Black people were just "confused" about reality or had a "bad day". It's a dizzying and repetitive gaslighting.

Why everyone be so mad at white people? 🤣 hilarious I never hear anyone talk about what Arabs did to black Africans, no one dare says it.... it's crazy the Arabs conquered Africa stripped their entire religion and sold black Africans to white people, it's all wrong but we need to get passed that and make our people better we won't do that with complaints but with understanding the truth

@@mirygalas6508 do you acknowledge what the Arabs did to the African community?????

@@steventhauriaux195 did Arabs did bad to Africans in USA or in Africa? It's same as saying sure Earth is warming but have you witnessed how hot Venus is LOL.

@@steventhauriaux195 two wrongs don't make a right! Everytime the issue of slavery comes up, white folks do like you and reflect it on another race. Stay focused.

He also went to live in France. What a great leader

Canus Lupus yes perhaps if he stated in America he’d have been assassinated like the rest of the black leaders

@@ZeroDrizzy Baldwin begins his remarks by saying that his concern is precisely for the country. He wasn't fighting against peace and love.

@@frazierduran71 In France he could be treated like a human being; not hard to understand unless you're determined not to.

John Lawson He could’ve lived in Africa as a king though instead of another white mans country

Me too, Molly. I loved that part. This is a long overdue education - the most important education of our lives.

So well said! I'm white, as well, but I've always had such deep respect and appreciation for James Baldwin's words. He was just the realest and most uncompromising human being to ever breathe. Not only did he understand the anatomy of the white American racist to perfection, but he offered truths about humanity itself that still shake me to my core every time I hear/read them. So much so that one is actually a profile picture of James Baldwin that I created myself. It says; “The victim who is able to articulate the situation of the victim has ceased to be a victim: he or she has become a threat.” I made a number of them during Black History Month a few years ago to share on my own personal Facebook page, primarily to make his words accessible to friends and family who may otherwise just overlook them. I feel like he's one of the most important figures in our country's history to study. Everything he said is as relevant today as it was back then... Some even more so. There will never be a time where his words won't hold true.

"We're not going to be driven and coerced by these deeply dehumanizing and destructive systems anymore!" Indeed. This racism against white people particularly has to stop. It's important that people understand that is okay to be white.

Euphoric Atheist You’re too daft to be on this thread.

@@euphoricatheist6694 Some would call me crazy to write to you because you probably won't take what I'm going to say seriously, but I'm writing in the hopes that there's a bit of humanity in you and anyone else who might identify with you. People can change, and it's never too late. I know all this is hard and confusing. I know it challenges your identity and makes you fearful and defensive. But if you make yourself vulnerable and open, and just TRY, you can begin a different journey. It's okay to afraid, it's okay to reevaluate what you've always believed or held dear. It's courageous to change. So, here goes. It IS okay to be white. It is NOT okay to use our white privilege to hurt others or deprive them of their constitutional rights as Americans. It is NOT okay to make being white all you stand for. Why? Because it's not healthy for you. You need to count more than just being born as an achievement. You had nothing to do with being born white - wrapping yourself in that does nothing substantial. You should be able to look at your life and feel proud of yourself for being kind and caring to ALL human beings, to have sacrificed something you wanted for someone else, to have done a good deed without being asked, and to have done all these things for those you don't even know. THAT is what fills you with REAL pride and achievement. So, it's okay to be white. It's okay to wrong, too. I am 50+ and I've had to remove a lot of brainwashing to find what I really believe in. Not what has been instilled in me by others throughout my early years. Finding the courage to face being wrong, take responsibility for it and start down a new path is really, really hard. When you conquer that, you'll find what makes you really proud of being YOU. And, no one is really white, by the way. No one. If you're lucky enough to live to be 100, I hope you'll be able to look back at your life and feel proud of something real. Best wishes to you. The Mrs.

His intelligence was unmatchable

​@@user-hx6li5sm8qyall just spouting random words, really

⁠​⁠@@Woodsarasas opposed to this very insightful line for the ages you’ve given us? Baldwin is the great writer here. And I mean this in the most traditional sense, he is a part of the great Western tradition of higher learning and the arts, a writer whose many works are a respected and very widely taught part of the modernist and post-modernist canon. You can say that “they” (or we) are “just spouting random words” out, but I would remind you that it isn’t our responsibility to rival Baldwin in his uniquely capable articulation, or try (and inevitably, fail) to match him in eloquence. The man was a great mind, and a compelling public figure. That he was not, if indeed that is your position, is a very fringe and reactionary point of view.

No one speaks like this! Elegantly pleading for justice! Reminds me of Gordon parks.

The situation has changed so little, so shamedly little.

I was straight up in tears. The pain in his voice as he describes the "crime" of just being a POC in 1960s America.

what a load of shyte James Baldwin spoke. he was the big racist

Why you crying? Cringe

Speaking the truth

@Neet This should be shown on the news right now in 2020

He was our Frederick Douglass. I wish more than anything that we had him here now.....

He is still here speaking from beyond. Its still worser then as is now.

We've been speaking it's that You haven't heard & that's The difference

The World didn’t accept this gift.

James Baldwin was a great mind, his words were a gift to this world A more proficient writer than a speaker. His speech is unintelligible in key points here

@@MechaJutaro Intelligent conversation is often deemed incomprehensible by those not intelligent enough to understand it. This fact is evinced by Dick Cavett's lack of understanding. So, to your point, perhaps the conversation needed to be brought down to the level of the listener. However, that is a very difficult task to accomplish when trying to represent the intellect of, not just yourself, but, an entire race of people.

@@MechaJutaro ...Have you ever met James Baldwin? Did you know or speak to him?

UrbanOutlawsSk8Co very different

Which books would you recommend?

Christvie Mamba going to meet the man, go tell it on the mountain, if Beale street could talk.

Black lives matter? 🤗 My kid asked me "Why?"🤔 I don't have any idea what to tell him!🤨 BECAUSE I thought to myself, hummmm if EVERY Blackman on EARTH suddenly DISAPPEARED, would EVERYONE even notice or be impacted 🙄, WOULD IT MATTER and WHY would it MATTER?,🤔 Can YOU tell me what to tell him? Thanks 🤗👍 See it is the same question I asked you years ago about polar bears, When they talked about global warming saying they were all going to drown because of global warming of the melting ice caps😭 I said okay that sounds like a terrible shame but how's that going to impact what I do and why should I care about stupid polar bears?🧐 I was like have any polar bears giving a damn if I'm dead or alive?😲 is any polar bear going to care if I eat or sleep or where I'm living?🤔 Is any polar bear going to show up to my funeral?,😭 When the news gets up there by the polar bears that I'm dead are they going to care?😲 if the polar bears found out that I was vaporized and disappeared and every other white guy disappeared on planet Earth is any polar bear going to care?🤪

@@AfroMedic Thank you

BikeGypsy you are welcome

Word

LoL if you think Thom Hartmann and his audience are anything but "less sophisticated". He's Fox news for the overly empathetic.

Very insightful and eloquent, NC

Cavett’s formal education taught him nothing at all about the subjects Baldwin raised. Do you think Cavett took courses on police brutality at Yale? The point is that a highly educated white man can graduate with honors from the most prestigious universities in the world and still know virtually nothing about the black experience.

To my knowledge, everything we built ourselves they systematically destroyed- literally. I'm researching why Harlem was able to thrive. Bc every other township we created was destroyed, our people were massacred, and the land was stolen. 😢

If you subscribe you can watch every show hes had on

SAME

Me too lol

I want watch the complete confrontation with the yale professor.

@@nipunsethi9434 yeah for real - he didn't even make an appearance, there's gotta be another 10' at least right? maybe there'll be another addition in the coming future?

MEGA Mic Drop!!!!

Exactly. It's part of the white man's covenant and their militias govern.

Might have been true then but they're not protecting anything now, There's a reason why people meet the police and everyone seems to be ignoring it . . .

@@JungleJeffarnold you're ignoring the most important distinction to the question and want to know why we cant generate your answer? The question is (paraphrased) why do BLACK people face different policing than white people? Did we just watch a video of James Baldwin just wondering over and over why police even "meet people." Do police have that much trouble "meeting people" that they need to pull over black people for frivolous reasons just to get introduced around or something?

That isn't a mic drop at all. Why are you not asking questions like "Aren't they there to protect the wealthy". There is a poor black person and then there are black celebrities. Are they putting any $$$ back into the black community? It is the poor against the wealthy. Ask LeBron James what happens if he calls the police. They come right away.

Right. It was gibberish then and it's gibberish now.

2020 too

@@crystalfeather9040 unfortunate that you feel that way.

100% this.

Why is it relevant now?

He wouldn’t have made a very good host if he wasn’t.

Benny Alves he was a wonderful and very man who was always open to learning about people.

That's Cavett!

@@robinflea Is. He's still around and smart as ever. :)

@Charles Hawtrey and the Deaf Aids Sorry about your childhood.

Don't give me something, just don't impede me from doing it myself. Something tells me he would not have been a fan of affirmative action.

Yes, leave us tf alone!!!!!

And perhaps today!

@@seang3019 perhaps NOT

No such thing now day , I’m a Hispanic immigrant

@@seang3019 most definitely today, Systemic racism still exists. If it didnt.. we wouldnt STILL be having the same conversations on racism, inequality, police brutality like in 1969

​@Jesse Ironside that raises a question i have; do you feel as if since an higher ranked more authoritative position holding individual gives out a racist order to those who are subjective to follow him no matter their own moral discontents of being tasked with such arbitrary missions is systematic or still individual?

Hi voice is hectic but for darn good reason

Palestinian Hip-Hop I totally agree. Could listen to him for hours.

Support thru struggle palistine will be free from Zionist occupation

Peace and love brother.

As a brother I stand in complete solidarity with Palestine we share a common enemy that looks the same but goes by a different name James Baldwin would know that.

blanchefan ...as well as Malcolm X, both simply believed in Independence, relying on self.

Reparations and 40 Acres are NEEDED MORE. Separation is definitely needed.

I agree.

Well said

@@negloblaxon7616 Separation only breeds contempt. Baldwin does not want separation.

thats what it means to be a genuinely curious person. cavett asked questions to illuminate and clarify, not to challenge.

@@gusdownes7485 i feel like that’s a KEY reason discourse is falling apart people almost only ask questions to challenge and prove someone else wrong

As Brando said during his appearance, Cavett tries to hold honest intellectual conversations while still appealing to the masses, the network and does yeoman duty to that end.

I like how Cavett was open to the discussion as well and opened the conversation. He listened and asked questions. This was 1969 and we're still here today because people don't have the same patience and listening skills as Cavett.

I'm having "a hard time keeping up" too, he's being quite vague and ambiguous

Only White people who benefit from white supremacy have a hard time tracking 👣 Baldwin and Black people who have been so conditioned by white supremacy that they can't think straight...other than that, Baldwin laid it out plain and simple

@@pcprinciple3774 -- James Baldwin is as "vague and ambiguous" as Donald Trump is a Rhodes Scholar. He's probably the single-most direct intellectual of the last hundred years in this country. Just because you can't hear past the muffling with your head so far up your own a$$ that you're wearing kidneys as earmuffs doesn't mean the rest of us have that same problem.

Baldwin had this electrifying presence, Jsy U.

Cavett was (and probably still is a liberal racist)...it's people like him who offered racism breeding ground from the very beginning...Baldwin on the other hand, is the one who was ahead of his time...so much so, that throughout this interview he had to explain things that most black people know by 3rd or 4th grade, to Cavett like he was talking to a remedial student.

Watch the Cavett interview, some years later, with Eddie Murphy. Dick tries to slip the word "ni***r" in there with a kind of casualness that denotes his being 'above racism' and a very young Eddie lets him stew in the misstep. Quite good.

@@calmnrelaxed agreed, hes a typical liberal racist. To this day we cant trust liberals. Stephen Colbert is the voice of the "liberal democratic" status quo. Same status quo that sees black men disproportionately killed by the police, drugs flooded into poor neighborhoods, continuation of indian genocide, draining the third world of their resources etc.

@@calmnrelaxed - What proof, if any, do you have of the accusation?

Well it didn't happen to "them" did it?

That part.

not many agree with that sentiment unfortunately

Ye, he condradictes himself like a bilion times there

​@Zack-xz1ph That's an inaccurate statement, most black people who have not accepted the second-class citizen training and brainwashing feel EXACTLY this way.

You all think your liberal and enlightened. When really, Your not! 🤔 So many statements under this video are so cringy.

Another Country for me. Extraordinary writer.

Stephen Carter I’d like to hear more on this?

Neither did we. This message is too sincere for our public schools

@@phillipwilson8973 Schools don't teach history from the point of view of the victims. You have to read the black and native American authors. And Howard Zinn.

I teach Baldwin's work in a college course for freshmen of all majors. I include one Baldwin interview with one short story. Many students are struck by him and choose his story for their final essay on the one work that influenced them the most. He's gone but he's still here. Look at us all still learning from him on KZfaq.

My 11th grade English teacher recommended Go Tell It On A Mountain. I enjoyed that book.

Instead he became a brilliant writer! That would’ve been a waste.

religion also keeps the poor from living life on the streets, and devolving into robbery and chaos. The people who are most critical of religion, are people rich enough to live without it.

Don't know if it's true, but it's good.

@@judeavision8807 Unfortunately it often keeps them from fighting for justice & their lives. Jesus loves the sufferers.

@@judeavision8807 Then why do Norway, Denmark and Sweden have some of the most successful countries, with less violent crime and homelessness than the US, despite having religiosity rates often under 20%?

That actually makes a lot of sense

Because white world didn't listen back in 1969. Did anyone expect things to get better in spite of the stupidity?

As it should. Nothing else to talk about.

It's hard to believe. My uncle said when he was young, he and a friend walked into a bar and the bar owner said, "We don't allow Mexicans in here." "My uncle then told them they were headed off to Vietnam." The bar owner made an exception.

the arrogance of the white savior. truly astounding as it is innocent.

It's a great historical document in part for Dick's stupidity and confident ignorance.

@@burner1303 Cavett was considered "out there" in his time for inviting Baldwin, Jim Brown, John Lennon, etc. on his show.

That blew my mind, I had to look at the date again to make sure I wasn't dreaming. It might be another hundred years before TRUE change.

@Wicked Jester James Baldwin would not be a member of either party. Remember: he was an intellectual.

Angry, not bitter. Bitter suggests that somebody is upset but for no reason. There is righteous indignation here.

But this still isn't the whole interview.

And 50 years before that, WEB DuBois was having it with someone, and fifty years from now, it'll still be going on.

Back then things were true, now its all bullshit.

@@JungleJeffarnold Really? You're apparently not old enough to remember much.

Except much less civil.

@@williamanderson7647 How do you mean?

The Sage...The Dick Cavett show was one of my favorite programs as a child. You didn’t see a lot black people on TV, Cavett and others like Mike Douglas kept it very real for audiences then... those questions were perfect, and Cavett knew White America needed to hear them.

I think that, to a large extent, Cavett was doing it on purpose to give Baldwin time to go deeper into each of his statements. He was a skilled interviewer.