So much for Baddiel's thesis that anti-black racism is taken extremely seriously (and by contrast antisemitism isn't). Baddiel's racism 25 years ago has had zero negative impact on his subsequent career. His career rebuts his entire argument.

“It was really important for me to apologise before my bbc documentary on racism airs”

As a kid in the 90s, who grew up in a rural, reasonably non diverse community, I'd say the biggest evil that came from these sketches, was that for kids like me it was our first exposure to dreadlocks, and black people in general, and taught us that it was OK to mock it like this. Lessons that people like me have had to re-educate ourselves about, that unfortunately, far too many people have never forgotten.

Jason, you've truly shown the measure of yourself here. You should be the one schooling people on racism with your own documentary series, bestselling book and maybe a song that gives you lifelong royalties.

I like the way Jason gives nothing away. His face, his body language - he listens but clearly isn't forgiving, nor should he be.

Total respect to you Jason. What Baddiel did to you back then was unforgivable and he did it to further his career. His apology now is so hollow as it is timed to help his book / documentary - an endeavor aimed to moneytise his anti-semitic experiences. He hasn't changed.

David was a 33 year old former graduate of Kings College Cambridge when he was wearing black face and calling Lee a “pineapple head”. It’s difficult to believe that he didn’t know what he was doing. He’s pushing 60 now and he’s only just apologised to the man. The media apologies weren’t about Lee, they were about Baddiel. They were all about him. His relationship to himself; to his family and friends; to his colleagues; and concerning his standing within his profession. It’s difficult with the timing of this, when he has his documentary out based on his book around race that this isn’t also about Baddiel to. He needs to do a lot of soul searching. I don’t think he’s the man that he tells himself he is.

17:40 "We took the piss out of you knowing that you were amazing" Baddiel sounds really, really insincere here. That sounds like the kind of crap someone comes out with when they are put on the spot for bullying someone.

What a dignified and intelligent man you are Jason. Thank you for your wise words.

It seems shocking that 25 years ago, a couple of clowns orchestrated a public campaign of bullying and racist "jokes" towards a young man who was only making a living doing what he loved (and still loves) most. That young man never harmed anyone, he played football and he was really good at it, but the racists kept mocking him for weeks/months because of his looks and his race. 25 years on, the clown becomes book salesman and still cannot acknowledge his racism or mention the word "blackface". He also cannot make the commitment to work with other communities and make up for his hurtful and very public racism. He is now a bitter middle aged man who still thinks everything is about him, while the young man has grown into an articulate, humble and dignified man who cares about not only his community but about everyone who wants to find their place in the world and experiences difficulties like himself. Jason, you are an amazing person and by keeping your dignity and working hard to make this world better, you are an example to thousands of people.

Jason is so dignified and every time I’ve heard him speak throughout the years I’ve always been impressed with how much character he shows. This is a fascinating and gripping watch. I was a big fan of Fantasy Football League and the thing that hit home with me at how much this must have been affecting Jason at the time was when he cut his hair off. No one will ever know what it felt like for him to go through that, especially after working so hard it have his dream ruined by two quite sad and pathetic men. A lot of people owe him an apology, not just David, and he did well to stop himself knocking his block off. If you’re reading this Jason, well done, you’re awesome and I have nothing but respect for you!

Took 25 years of not apologising to Jason personally whilst writing & broadcasting

Baddiel is apologising decades (25 years) later, but only because he wants sympathy for his own cause. This is just an attempt to sanitise his persistent racism with some shit apologies. He knew full well what he was doing then, it was just ok for him to make racist jokes towards black people because he wanted to play to prejudices of the public at the time. It’s not shame, confusion, and fear that stopped him apologising earlier. The reality is he felt it was ok, it’s just now he’s been called out for his racist double standards.

Big respect Jason. Very well articulated, you are a man of integrity.

Although Jason is being very dignified here, I think you can tell he fucking hates him.

You are a very admirable man Jason Lee. A role model for all. Resilient, humble, empathetic, gracious. Thank you for sharing this.

Not sure only apologising because it's being filmed for a documentary which in turn promotes his book is the sincere apology Baddiel seems to think it is.

Huge respect for Jason.

For a Kings College graduate, Jason schooled David here with his wonderful questions and brilliant composure. I can see his hurt, but equally, his control was excellent on such a strong personal level. I also would like to apologise. As a Derby fan, at the time I found it funny. I recognised some time after how racist this was, but in that moment I found it funny more out of local rivalry, which as I write that, it is pathetic and so awfully contrite. This has taught me even more about the issues of racism for which I’m thankful for.

When David Baddiel was doing Newman and Baddiel they had a character called Ray who was ‘a man inflicted with a sarcastic tone of voice’. It’s a bit ‘life imitating art’ cos that actually is now David Baddiel. It seems genuinely hard for him to be sincere without it sounding disingenuous or sarcastic. Really interesting and important discussion 💕

Jason, it takes real backbone to take on your former tormentor with that level of dignity and self-respect. You didn't cow or let him off the hook, you stood your ground firmly and righteously. It was refreshing to see the indignation in your face through out. You allowed him to apologies but you managed to make him make it count. It's clear Baddiel has a long way to go to win any respect back from you and rightly so. He seems sincere and I'm sure he now sees how wrong and pathetic his "comedy" was. It is a disgrace that its taken him so long to face you, which is typical with bullies as they are always cowards. It was never funny and despite his apology, the damage has been done. You are the bigger man and I respect your courage to rise above this for the sake of moving this subject along. We will defeat racism with these small steps. Massive respect 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼✊️✊🏾

"I've read your book. I want £6 back" Absolute legend this guy.

Excellent Jason. You're an example for everyone in the UK.

Jason, omg that was such a gracious, dignified and emotionally intelligent approach to this discussion. Thank you for creating it and allowing it to happen. It's a long time coming. I can remember seeing the Baddiel / Skinner sketches and being appalled by the racism and targeted bullying towards you. I couldn't watch it but remember hoping someone would do something. I'm shocked there was never an apology at the time.The work you are doing in football now sounds very important and necessary. Good luck with it. Your family must be so proud of you.

He's waited 25 years to apologise and he's used it as a media op for his documentary. The man has no shame whatsoever. Baddiel is a coward and a hypocrite. Big respect Jason.

As a Forest fan of maybe 14 years old, I sang the song and though wincing, took a strange pride in seeing my team being regularly mentioned on a lads magazine chat show. I now see that the words used, blackface and the entire process was damaging and by allowing it air time in my head I perpetuated that mindset and philosophy. Jason Lee, you are a good man with a good heart. Would that there were more people like you, willing to hear out grievances and apologies and find common ground on which to build something more significant and vital. This is possibly one of the most important conversations about football I have heard in a long time, and it was overdue. Well done David for having the guts to apologise face to face man to man, few people would do that these days.

"To really love something you need to be able to make fun of it". I cannot believe anyone would ever say such a thing without thinking themselves a total twat. It's not for me to suggest that Baddiel's apology is anything but genuine, but to offer up a ridiculous excuse like that was terribly arrogant, and quite insulting. Massive credit to you, Mr Lee. You're an inspiration to us all!

Thank you for making this Jason. It must have been difficult.

Tons of respect for you Jason. Very articulate and an eye-opening conversation. Well played from a Forest fan

Thank you Mr Lee! A much needed conversation. You have my support and respect! So glad you got the apology you were due many years ago!

David Badiel: 'I'm not using it as an excuse'... uses it as an excuse (X50).

Class from the gentleman Jason here. This shows that Baddiel should be apologising to black people in general as well. They would have been really hurt by this. He does have a problem with racism

I've so much respect for Jason Lee. I can remember watching Fantasy Football in the 90s, and getting into an argument with a then boyfriend, as he didn't think what they were doing was racist. It's taken people almost 25 years to realise. That's mind boggling to me.

There's a dignity and a measured intelligence behind this that is pretty bloody humbling for someone who laughed along with these stupid jokes. As I've said elsewhere on here, it turns out that I was laughing at a very good and thoughtful man. You're a very good person, sir. Huge respect.

One of the problems here is Baddiel keeps changing his story. In his book, he said he cried when he overheard some antisemitism at a match. In this interview he claims he was 'Violently' abused. That implies physical contact, doesn't it? Also, worth remembering, he was defending his right to do this sketch as late as 2013. That's a long time after Bo Selecta was on TV.

Baddiel doesn't actually say he is sorry for being racist. he tries to shift the conversation on to his own hurt, and how he has been subjected to racism like in some way that jusifies it. Baddiel has always been a cruel unpleasent little man. He also ignores his use of racist tropes against the travelling community

So pleased to see you presenting your own high quality show Jason. Your time at Forest brings back happy memories and I’m delighted that you’ve been able to share your experiences so openly and viscerally. I’m looking forward to seeing more content from you. Thank you so much - I’ve subscribed.

Held to account. Apology as defence. As Stuart Lee so brilliantly observed "It's only a joke - like on Top Gear".

Just watched the documentary on TV, very interesting concepts explored. It's great hearing you two explore some of these ideas here

I just watched you Jason on the Under the Cosh pod where you spoke about this interview, I had to watch this afterwards. I loved Fantasy Football back in the day, as a young man I didn’t see the racist connotations of the sketch or the bullying at the time. Over time and with more experience of the world, you do begin to realise how awful it actually was towards you. I’m glad it’s been brought up and glad you did this interview to get your message out. More power to you! You speak so well and come across as dignified. Subscribed and watching more of your pods

I've listened to this episode 4 times now so think it's enough to say something on it now. Jason, you are pure positivity. As a Forest supporter, that sketch was always upsetting because of how much we saw it affected you and also because of the wider upset it caused. It hurt my friends who suffered the same comments because of their appearance too. To see what you've done for the game of football from grassroots right to the very top levels, opening avenues of communication and offering your wisdom to new generations is very important. As one of the people who has regularly pushed David to apologise to you in person I am very pleased he now has and does understand why this needed to be done. Truly believe that in order for us to stop this from continuing it will take openess to learning from the perpetrators (deliberate or accidental) and forgiveness from those who are victims of it. It did take courage for David Baddiel to see you in person and admit how very wrong he was and it does come across as sincere. His embarrassment and shame is obvious so I'm pleased that you got to have this meeting. For you then to turn this beyond yourself and use it to discuss how to make the world a better place for everyone shows how humble and caring you are.

Total respect for the grace and restraint you've showed Mr Lee, there was a nastiness about those sketches, they weren't funny, it was the television equivalent of school yard bullying, also because it goes on week after week. I'm not 100% convinced by his apology , only because of its timing and his willingness to talk and talk but not ask you how you felt at the time, over the years and even now. I came straight to this podcast after watching his documentary, mostly because I wanted to hear you talk. That wasn't screened on his doc, -.I genuinely think a lot of the problem is that he's not a very good comedian, it's a kind of drunk student who thinks himself way more clever than everyone and feels superior. I'm not just saying this as a knee jerk reaction to this 'apology' , I've never liked his humour. But that's not why I'm writing this, I felt compelled to extend my utter respect for how you've carried it. Consider me subscribed

Full respect Jason. I had never seen the sketch until yesterday and I was shocked that it had been allowed to be broadcast in the first place. When will we ever learn?

Damn, Jason lee goes hard. Everyone should watch this. FYI, I have been a massive fan of Baddiel. I remember fantasy football and didnt really think twice about it. thats how racism travels. Thanks for making this Jason

In a world of Baddiels, be like Jason Lee fella.

'It's not about you David' ✅ Have rewatched this 3 times now and I do wonder would he have done this and the documentary if he didn't have a book out?

Well done Jason. You are exposing David Baddiel here and his hypocrisy

I think if Baddiel had shown any true regret or remorse it wouldn’t have taken him 25 years to apologise to you. I can’t help but feel like this is self-serving move because he has a show about anti-Semitism to promote and his own racism is coming back to haunt him. He’s not apologising because he wants to, but because he has to.

Great first pod , looking forward to where this goes . Nice one Jason .

Apology after 25 years??? Baddiel made his career on the back of this racism and bullying, never affected his career. I suppose it's better late than never. I agree with Jason, where are the rest of the people who were involved coming and apologising in person, Frank Skinner, the producers, the make-up artists, the writers and the programme controller.

First time I’ve heard about this. I went back and watched the skits before listening to this podcast. Im sorry you had to go through that shit. Fair play for confronting him. I hope people learn from this. This was an interesting discussion and I learned from it. I hope your channel grows. 🙌🏼

I can remember Slyvia Kristel on Fantasy football back in the day when Baddiel wanted her to make fun of a black guy wearing bad clothes and she said "I don't like racism", the crowd booed her and Skinner quickly moved the show on.

As a Forest fan you are as important a part of that era as any we had. You handled this interview in an incredibly dignified way.

Such a thought-provoking and dignified conversation. Thank you for sharing.

Respect Jason - I would have been around 10 or so when David did those sketches and it's even etched in the back of my mind. As soon as I saw your name trending on twitter i had the sketch my thoughts. I wonder how many more of my generation grew up watching that thinking that's the norm. Thankfully now it's not - looking forward to your podcasts dude, best luck X

His ego is much bigger than his integrity. Never thought Baddiel had talent or charisma.

Mr Lee, you are a gem. Intelligent questions, lots to think about and takeaway from your conversation. Wishing you all the best with your channel.

Thank you Jason, subscribed. A truly insightful, well articulated discussion. I started going to football as a kid in the late 70s and of course have seen racism on the terraces over the years. Thankfully it has got better but as you rightly stated we all need to continue to learn, put in the work and commit to constantly improving. I never watched FF and the few times I dipped in it never engaged me but even then I was aware of the stick you received and your account of how it has effected your life was both honest and moving. I am pleased you have, finally, had a face to face apology.

Subbed to this channel on the back of this episode. Incredibly articulated response to such a despicable act. I know which of the two I'd prefer in my corner. Mr Lee you are a true gentleman. Edit: when Baddiel says "what happened to you" he should have said "when I did that to you". He still tries to distance himself from the act.

Watching this has been a monumentally educational experience for me; Jason, you carry yourself with such authoritative dignity and gentle but fast morality. I'm blown away.

I'm not British; am not familiar with either of you. But I can't tell you how impressed I come away from this discussion Jason. You've shown everyone what an amazing guy you are - in the event they didn't already know. Well done.

The cheek of David Baddiel he doesn’t sincerely apologise for being racist. I believe in second chances and forgiveness but you have to own your fuck ups, I don’t feel like he owns it in this podcast. Also it’s very convenient he’s on an apology tour whilst he’s got a documentary and book to push. His whole book and documentary basically makes the point that anti semitism isn’t taken seriously, which is a fair point, but the reason people get so annoyed about those sketches is because he’s putting himself up as an arbiter of what is or isn’t racism or as an expert on the hierarchy of racism (Even though he says that’s not what he’s doing here) yet he doesn’t own his own racism properly.

I love this it is such an important conversation. Jason, you explaining the impact of it was was on you was so articulate and touching and true. Thank you

Very well done, Jason Lee. You are truly an impressive person.

Jason is a far better man than me. Fair play to him.

Respect, guys. That conversation was a treat.

Respect to both men for having this conversation in the way they did... like a restorative justice session in a way.

I would be proud to have a father or son like Jason. Never backed down over 25 years even when society pressed him into accepting it was ‘just a joke’. Never went down to the perpetrators level by using his power to assault them or threaten them. Was big enough to accept an apology and see the bigger picture.that people make mistakes. 100% respect and as Arthur Ashe once said ‘ a good name is with more than diamonds and pearls’. Your name sir is unblemished. David looks extremely remorseful and genuine, however does hang onto the silly ‘ if we didn’t love you’ we wouldn’t have mocked you argument. That’s unfortunately still straight out the Habs playground. Fact he still holds onto that suggests there’s a bigger reason for it than just the Lee situation. Either way I got the feeling both men were hurt deeply by this scenario and am sure the conversation was cathartic.

Wow, more powerful than I could imagine. Well done mate.

This is such a powerful discussion. Regardless of the reason as to why it’s happening now instead of at any other point over the past 25 years should not take away the power of what is being discussed. Jason Lee has had to carry the anger, resentment and pain from these sketches for so many years but hasn’t let it define him and that’s to his immense credit. At the same time David Baddiel is shining a light on an aspect of racism that has been sadly mis appreciated - while his actions 25 years ago were unacceptable (particularly now but even at the time) it should not dilute or distract from the awareness he’s attempting to raise - as a society we’ve come so far in 25 years and hopefully with platforms like this and the bravery of having difficult conversations, we can continue to evolve.

Respect to Jason, your calm and collected approach is rare.

Jason Lee here follows the Obama model showing the real meaning of "going high". Apart from anything else, he provides a superb role model for the young in football and beyond.

David is sorry because he was subsequently bullied and victimized, he didn't think about it prior to that. That's the crux of his defence, pretty lame. He also seems to be making this apology all about him.

How the fuck did he not know this was wrong in the 90's?

After 25 years this apology is so overdue it's almost meaningless, but your dignity and decency shine through.

Great podcast Jason and hats off to you for demonstrating consummate composure.

I watched Baddiel's "Jews Don't Count" a couple of nights ago and I have to say, I was shaking my head all the way through it. Firstly, as a British Asian (my parents are from Bangladesh but I was born in the UK and lived in Liverpool most of my life), I experienced a shit load of racism while growing up as well as around the UK. My response is to always ignore it while at the same time, I never played the race card - even though I'm certain that racism has played a role in my career stagnating (at very important stages, not continuously). So, here I am, still plugging away. I lost contracts ending up in debt, still renting, never had time to settle down etc. Not looking for sympathy but here's my point. While Baddiel's experience of racism is horrific (I detest anti Jewish racism as much as any other), he - and most of the Jews interviewed in his documentary have all done OK. He (himself) is estimated to be worth ~$US 6 million. Others that experienced racism or metted it out (like Baddiel did throughout the 1990s) didn't have his career inhibited by it. Does that excuse anti-Jewish racism? Absolutely not. However, if at the age of 52, if I had a house and ~$6 million, you could call me a Paki all you want. I wouldn't be arsed. But, here he is. Sitting pretty, dishing out racism which helped his career, complaining about having racism directed at him. FFS. How about a little perspective. His documentary would have been better received if he went to interview those in the Jewish community who had vile racism directed towards them on a constant basis and who in turn were affected so much that their careers stalled as a result of it. Also - by appearing on this show - it seemed contrived and insincere - almost that he felt he *had to* come on because of these Twitter posts. If those Twitter posts never happened, would be have really come on - or just let it slide? My guess he would never have even bothered.

Baddiel in 25 Year Bravery Award for Racism. So inspiring

Just in time for his documentary! How convenient!

Really impressed with Jason’s control during this interview, enjoyed watching you at Forest and look forward to watching the podcasts going forward. For david, although super late, it does still take courage to do this and admit to mistakes (however huge), so some respect to him also. As a Forest fan it was upsetting for me to see Jason depicted the way he was, we only saw great effort and a good man playing for our team at the time!

Full respect Jason. You are an ambassador for all humanity. There is a level for humour, what you had been subjected to was wrong on all levels.

Copernicus called - turns out the world doesn't revolve around David Baddiel. Even his apology is all about him

Wow. Talk about my opinion of someone having changed. Thank you for the podcast Jason and educating me. I'm similar age to yourself and admit to laughing away with Fantasy Football in the past - it was wrong, and I was wrong. I'll look forward to watching some more of your shows.

If I wished to "school" a person in the meaning of dignity, I'd attempt to explain the abuse you suffered at the hands of this individual, then I'd show them this video. I remember watching FFL at the time and that show rode you hard. I can't imagine how it must have felt and you have my deepest sympathy for what you and your family must have gone through. It is shaming for him that he didn't reach out to you sooner. The reason I think he's reaching out now is because he has a book to sell. He (rightly in my opinion) gets rinsed on social media for his racism and wants that to stop. Baddiel alludes to the effect of social media in this podcast and says that "everyone shouts because everyone wants to be heard" but I think what he forgets is that some people haven't forgotten what he did and he just wishes they would. I particularly enjoyed you calling him out for the premise of his book as you're absoluteLEE right, there is no hierarchy in racism.

@Jason, you explained your side very well. Watching this, I can't help but feel that David is trying to make excuses for himself but you are just clearly and calmly explaining the problem with what he did. I'm not a football fan so I didn't watch Baddiel and Skinner's show and I can't believe that they were doing this crap in the 90s.

Not that it's insincere, but there's a very particular embarrassed micro-aggression from Baddiel, which is typical of someone who has to endure a calling-out and is not comfortable with being explained to. What is happening is that Baddiel is not pleased with how things are unfolding and tries to position himself in a light that he thinks is best for him (16:40) which fundamentally demonstrates a reluctance to accept his past behaviour, and thus shows that he's has priorities ahead of truly, earnestly learning about Jason's perspective and the tremors of his behaviour . "Jason, you don't need to explain any of that to me". But he does. That's the point.

All of a sudden he's serious, this is not an apology it's a promotional tour. What a weasal of a human being

First time watching this channel. Jason is a class act.

Big respect to Jason Lee. Top bloke.

Much love and respect to Lee - BADDIEL & SKINNER were ruthless and relentless of their treatment of LEE.

I remember watching that stuff and thinking little of it. It's only 15-20 years ago and looking back, with better knowledge and understanding now, it was utterly shameful. Jason Lee, well done. We all need to keep learning about these very important issues.

I have to say Jason Lee is a remarkable man and someone with real grace and courage and dignity. David has not shown himself to be very aware of racism in general and does seem to have prioritised his own expereince and senstivity to antisemetism over other types of racism. Jason Lee seeems to get this whole heartedly and also when it comes to women too which is always a refreshing thing to see as most men do not even bother or show any insight into sexism or sexist behaviours or harassmnt many women expereince thorughout their lives. Big up Jason Lee.!!! what a man,wish there were many more like him

Sadly born too late to see you play but huge respect and admiration for Jason. Forgiveness can be a great tool for healing!

I was at that game at Stamford Bridge when Jason scored in 1996 (my first Forest match i went to). I was sitting in the Chelsea end with a season ticket holder who got me a ticket but we all had to sit with the Chelsea fans, which meant that I had to sit quietly to not draw attention. As soon as Jason scored, I immediately jumped out of my seat to celebrate BUT I had to sit down immediately as well to not show that a Forest fan is sitting amongst the Chelsea fans. Jason was an outstanding player. His goals, I still remember to this day

Kudos for having an honest, dignified and brave discussion. I hope your wounds can heal over time, I always enjoyed watching you play back in the day.

Jason Lee you are an absolute class act the way in which you eloquently held discussions with David Baddiel and took him to account was just excellent. The way in which you communicate is incredible and I am so pleased to have watched the podcast. Great work & great watch / listen 👏🏽

Jason, great respect to you for having DB on the show and your exemplary attitude.

As Richey Edwards once wrote....."there is never any redemption, any fool can regret yesterday"

Thank you Jason for being so dignified during the interview. This interview should be included in training on racism, and diversity & inclusion so that those being trained hear about real examples instead of the generalizations usually offered to us.

This Jason Lee is so open and it's refreshing... I get the feeling he is really a positive person to be around.