I will tell my fire unit saraland fire station 3 about it

I have a question: Why are American firefighters so slow, lazy and unprofessional? Why do you watch fires and not put them out?

@@chaosXP3RT frfrfrfr....I am a firefighter in Switzerland and there will be water flowing after LESS than 3 minutes after tires stopping...

You aren't a firefighter and you are FOS

@@virgilhilts3924 I am a volunteer firefighter, and have been for 27 years. Guess that shows you don't know S**T!!

Funny how when you put water on a fire it tends to put it out of

We had a motto years ago, Hit it Hard from the Yard, before you make entry. It never caught on.

@@davidwhite2544 That's just a cliche now... many departments use it- when it's necessary. Why are you going to "hit it HARD from the YARD" when you can barely see smoke on arrival? A lot of departments serving areas with traditional architecture still don't really understand the need. Even departments that do understand the need wouldn't "need" to use it in this instance. Those of us working in newer communities understand that just because you hit it from outside doesn't mean you don't need to go in... since the volatility of the environment of modern furnishings offgassing in a traditional build is a very precarious dragon to slay if you want to advance toe to toe with it. Take a guy from a station working predominantly traditional and move him into a newer community where homes are stuffed together and practically built with propane and they start to understand the concept and why it's important- but without the context we're all just pussies.

Depending on the S.O.P.s of the individual department the same takes place here in the United States. Look at how Boston operates. That procedure works for them, Then drive down 95-South into the Big Apple. Every department operates in the way that best fits their circumstances. But one thing is dead certain: Only amateurs put water on smoke. The rest of us locate the fire and put the wet stuff on the red stuff.

@@arthurdowling970 wtf are u saying

Hell water can could have put it out. But no we can't do that

They do it on purpose now a days. They wait for it to catch fire

I just watched it and I was like come on hurry up get some water put it in the window I don't understand.

Thấy anh BRZ Nga Lao vào Cứu VN mình muốn học hỏi.

Could have been put out with couple of bowls of water at the beginning ridiculous.

But they like to use the chainsaw

IF IM CORRECT THEY NEEDED THE CHAINSAW TO START VENTING ON THE ROOF, SO THE SMOKE CAN CLEAR OUT OF THE BUILDING.

@@zechariahmcclain3083 smoke (and flame) was well and truely venting out of the building well before the saw came out. Through the two objects previously known as windows, now flues.

@@andrewallason4530 hahahahaha

@@zechariahmcclain3083 You're NOT CORRECT!!

Anyone who uses ur, instead of YOUR is an idiot. You have NO idea of what they had to do to get to where the fire was.

@@ffjsb please. First in could have hit that shit from the ground with an attack line.

He was using a chainsaw

@@tomcander3669 he went to the roof with the k12

@@ffjsb the fire is showing itself. YOU'RE the reason fire department standards are lowering. Go save YOUR foundations and pat YOURSELVES on the back

Too bad that in 45 years you never learned to read smoke so that you could tell that they DID start to get water on the fire around 3:15, and had to back out for some reason....

They just want a big fire so they can be called heros.

there are so many videos on KZfaq just like this. I have yet to see a US firefighter run.

K to ok po òòòkjkkjkj ki kol po obo kookpoo

Ah but you see that then allows them to cut loads of holes in the roof......

I’m pretty sure in murica they like to let it get out of hand so they have better stories to swap.

@Mm. You no dot. You put water 💧💦 on the fire, as soon as you grab the attack line from the fire truck 🚛🚒

@@DasArab Firefighters moonlighting as roofers !

Yeah, this isn't an interesting video. It's evidence in a civil suit.

The water was in at 340

@@Berlinerisch You and Randy have NO IDEA of what you're talking about.

@@ffjsb neither do you, they're renters, building has heavy fire insurance by the owners. Let it burn, the hell with the tenants. Civil suit!

@@bryanphillips6666 Son, I've been on the job for nearly 40 years...

😢

Thank you for posting that. I was wondering what kind of fire it was and what floor it was coming from :)

And the other guy is wearing his SCBA and doesn't use it. See that alot with videos out of NJ. Would hate to see their cancer rates!!!

I'm from "those days" and in 1981 we wore SCBAs whenever we were on a roof.

Not a smart practice or tactic

@@robthetinmang1455 I see that outside of NJ. Officers don't use PPE, and their subordinates follow along. It's just bad leadership.

Unfortunately, it seems like old habits die hard. I said it in an other response, but the "pushing fire" theory and not hitting it from the outside when it's already vented was still being taught when I was a rookie 16 years ago. Tactics have changed and we now hit it from the outside in similar circumstances. I try not to go too hard on Monday Morning Quarterbacking...especially when it's not my city and I wasn't there....but it's fair to question why they wouldn't have put some water in those windows earlier.

Agree with your comment 100 %. They should have had water on that fire much sooner than they did

@@charlesgarvey5660 There was a time period, where some FD attempted to outfit "Go Trucks". Small trucks with minimal equipment, 300 gallons of water, and enough 1.5 hose to just get some "first water" on small fires to slow down the fires enough to get the main apparatus in place. These go trucks could "dash" through traffic, similar to European style apparatus and do an initial knock down. . I've watched many videos of "nothing showing, or some smoke" turn into roaring flames when a wet wall or two would have allowed a full complement to arrive and quickly control the fire.

That's not true if you KNOW what you're looking at. The ladder shows up around 1:20, and you can see a CLEAR change in the smoke start to happen at around 3:12. So by then they had started to put water on the fire. You don't know how many rooms they had to go through before the got to the room where the smoke and fire is venting. So being that it's the second floor of a large apartment building, I'd say that's not too bad, especially for a volunteer FD. We can get into whether a FD in a community that big should have a full time dept. though... BTW, white smoke is known as STEAM...

@@ffjsb 16 years in the fire service...I know what I'm looking at, "chief". They screwed the pooch on this one. It happens. You are supposed to learn from your mistakes...not vehemently defend them.

I agree with u brother 🤙🏽. I’m on the job 21 years , currently a Ladder co Captain, but I love when I get an OT shift on an Engine co ! Nothin beats putting a good knock a 🔥!! These fellas are vollies so I give them a bunch of props !! Yes they could have gotten quicker water on it if they went with tank water but all and all these boys did solid work here 🙏🏽

On a short stretch like that I'd go right past the hyt, to set up and get a line off. Should be no problem for the hydrant man to stretch I00-200' of supply line by hand. If you look at 3:12 or so, you can see a DEFINITE change in the smoke to show that they've started putting water on the fire, but then something changes and they have to back out.

@@ffjsb The first guy went up with a P-can and I think he got a knock on it, but not enough to stop it and by opening the door gave it a flow path.

Please enlighten us.

@@jackh577 Figure it out for yourself.

@@beckytwister01 You really are taking much too much testosterone sweetie.

Not least of which is due to a possible roof collapse, then you’re now in the fire without scba.

On my first job we popped the roof and I popped my cherry with a HUGE lung full of some heavy dark smoke. Tasted it for days. LOL

I'm guessing you have never crawled into a hot dark smoke filled room.

They need more trucks !

Yes absolutely unbelievable, that would not happen in the uk.

@@frankiefire3968 Bullshit. You guys would've stood around in the front yard with your garden hose trying to hit it through the windows...

Probie, you need to get some time on, because you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

@@ffjsb Bullshit. The kid is right. This was a weak effort.

Was very surprised to see lack of scba by a few

@@mathewpiccioni5963 - Didn't see any roof ladders either. It's constructive criticism, not a trash & bash session...but PPE, roof ladders....and maybe an initial hit from the outside. Anyone on the job knows it's easy to find fault after the fact...but we should always be open to a post-fire critique.

@@speedyspooley completely agree. I’m not bashing by any means so I hope to clarify that. I am no pro.... I’m just surprised to see that. Perhaps using the halligan to vent was his only option for example as all other tools may have been in use. We are not there, but... basic PPE is crucial to ones safety. I wouldn’t be caught doing that. It’s just my opinion. Either way, these guys are daily heroes and I am sure did a great job controlling spread to exposures.

Absolutely agree with the roof operations and lack of SCBA. I nearly fell through a roof, thank god I did not. If I did, my SCBA would at least given me a second chance if I survived the fall into the attic.

I’d be pulling ceilings before I was putting anyone on a roof- almost ever. And yeah that Chief bitch slapping the roof with a Halligan was just irksome, useless and just unprofessional.

Hey @C Grayson its really hard to believe that these guys ever trained for their jobs. They really looked confused as hell about what to do...🤔

I lived through an arson fire and because of political township shit They let it burn when it could have been put out in 5 to 10 minutes ! I lost everything unnecessarily

Garden hose!

Really hard to search without opening a door, eh?

@@retiredfedleo6441 Read the smoke. They went in and backed out 5 seconds later and waited for water. It almost rolled right over them first in guys with a dry line. This was a crazy close call. I'm glad it worked out. It's the little mistakes that get ya hurt. God bless

@@mattnew1773 If they hit the windows within the first minute using tank water, they might have saved someone hiding under their bed in that room. THAT, is not only fast and safe it shows Thought and responsibility.

@@mattnew1773 I think a couple of cans could have done the trick if done quickly.

@@JB91710 so you’re saying throwing water through the window will save someone hiding under the bed better than going in and pulling them out? How does this work?

That's not true at all. They were making an interior attack and had to back out. Then they regrouped and went back in.

@@ffjsb in the mean time, lob water through the window, either while interior is enroute, or while they’ve backed out.

@@ffjsb they definitely could have blitzed to check it. Not the biggest fan of it, but with taking that long to get to the fire it shouldve been employed

@@BassistFF By the time the fire started to show out the windows, they were well committed to interior attack. If fire was showing on arrival, a transitional attack would be appropriate.

Fire walls

@@MegaUnclesalty Nope, that's standard drywall for you.

Would have ruined the whole apartment too- saving what exactly? The undisciplined door control on the main entrance / and the door to the apartment is what ruined this apartment... 125 gallons of water sprayed in the window may have hit the fire... may have just hit all around it and put it out by accident while ruining the floor, leaking into the downstairs apartments and created- potentially- a bigger problem. I can tell those of you who know what you're talking about from those of you who do not- water or lack thereof was not what caused the fire to take up and ruin so much of the space... undisciplined door control was.

terrible

they didn't try the latch to raise it..couldn't find it from the inside...

So what? Your Gona spray water on light smoke through a window on arrival? I know you don’t know much about interior, but it takes a little time

They took way too long to put water on the fire !!!

the white helmet should not have been on the roof.......unless he stole the helmet....

Great catch? They dropped the ball big time!

I came here to ask this. The tower ladder had water flowing from the hydrant at the 2 minute mark. It seems like a knockdown with the ladder nozzle would have made a huge difference. At the 5 minute mark the first attack hose is still outside the building and not charged. It was almost at the 7 minute mark until you saw a change in the smoke.

Why can't people just come on here and just say " good job. They got a good knock and controlled the fire. There was no need to go defensive UNLESS the interior crew could, for some reason, not be able to get to the fire.

@@skidude8989 Because they believe it wasn't a good job? It's not a single family dwelling, so it seems like initial knockdown might be more beneficial than say, over 6 minutes to get water on the fire.

Respectfully- I disagree. I mean... yeah- you'd have put the fire out and ruined the whole apartment and flooded the ones below. We're great saving a house from 5000 dollars of fire damage by doing 50000 dollars water damage to it. And yes- when the fire has been allowed to develop, is running efficiently with a unidirectional flow that supplies it with everything it needs to grow- NO ARGUMENT with you... none. Hit it... but in this case? So many people in this case are just "water water water water water water water water" when a ladder with a couple of draft curtains would have put this thing out. Sure, you usually draft curtains on doors but hey- why not a window. I'm asking... why not? Fire on arrival- let's look at that. That was not heavy smoke showing... that was barely smoke showing. Low velocity- extremely low density... dark but we expect that... the fire is burning inefficiently... The fire was clearly- CLEARLY- vent limited. You say you're a fire guy or were or whatever and you're saying all the things that suggest that you (too) have seen the NIST / UL science and seems you understand it at least 10% of it. You got the terms maybe not the science and why its relevant and how it was intended to be applied. Look at the very inefficient bi-directional flow at the windows. The thing is barely getting any traction in there... huffing and puffing for air through the lower space of the broken window while the smoke it produces is trying equally hard to push out through the top. It's as straightforward as anyone can make it... NIST / UL should use this video in their flowpath science presentations it's that basic. And you're on about "hard from the yard and dog from the bog" or whatever the latest cliche is. And the guys on scene- at least one guy with a white helmet- seem to realize that; early on we see a guy with a water can making his way up there. No gloves- just wandering in with no mask on ... Everything right up to the door of the involved apartment is a cakewalk. And the can would have done it... if ventilation had been rigidly controlled which it obviously wasn't. There was a delay- whatever it was- from the time the door opened to when they found the fire and put water on it. No thermal camera? No charged hoseline ready? Left the door of the apartment open to improve ventilation? As stupid as that sounds... hey let's put guys on the roof to cut a hole in it. Every opportunity to follow fresh air straight in to the seat... burp a little water- done. A little natural ventilation... maybe the hydraulic the one guy does for a bit... PPV if there's one out there... why not? Anyway- I should probably know better to even care about guys in here waving their "instructor this and service that" like it means anything if they're just going to staple it to useless cliches that don't apply to the video.. The concept isn't useless- but a person should recognize when that's the solution to the CURRENT situation versus just an available option for other very specific circumstances.

@@skidude8989 First- I agree. The number of people in here talking out their ass is astonishing. Certainly to some of them I'm doing the same thing so... there's that. Take the rest of what I'm saying with a grain of salt on account of that alone if you wish. On another note- it isn't "going defensive" if you're going to hit it from the outside first in the interest of making conditions inside safer to enter... this is "transitional." This is a signal (if properly announced on the radio) to incoming apparatus that the next due is going to be supporting an offensive attack. This is usually if the fire is no longer vent limited- and is free burning. Most of the people in here honking about water first and ask questions later are referring to a transitional attack and in many cases they're not wrong at all. In this case, they're all very, very wrong. This fire wasn't going anywhere. It was vent limited in spite of the broken windows... It wasn't getting enough air since the rest of the apartment was closed up and was fuel rich probably on account of newer furnishings readily offgassing. They could have hung out for 30 minutes and seen very little change in the fire. Get a backup line, water supply, utilities isolated, other apartments evacuated, have a piss... THEN Pull the trigger on YOUR terms. Some departments call this operational mode "Preparing" though I don't see it often it is absolutely applicable in this scenario though technically the fire did vent it had no traction to build up any flame But when that involved apartment door opened and stayed opened and water wasn't applied? That, my dude, that is where the squirrel ran back up the toilet paper roll.

You can't be salty standing there with the accountability board...

And sometimes it does more damage than it resolves in the presence of other options. I mean yeah- water is great... it also does tremendous amounts of damage unnecessarily. If they'd just done 1 thing a little differently they'd have had a miraculous save with minimal damage and an intact fire scene resulting in a better chance to find a cause... instead of it remaining under investigation.

Yeah, that crosslay flake was horrible. Those two FFs @ 1:53 need to start stretching and learning how turn their SCBAs on their own lol

@@man4054 One members actions can kill many members. Remember that!

@@man4054 Fire was knocked down very quick? Did we watch the same video lol

Glad to see that thing left. He was killing brain cells

@@johnphillips2426 you are correct.

Even the Canadian police and firefighters are better then those

Check put the city of Stockton, California. Those guys get it done.

You clearly know NOTHING about US Firefighters.

@@ffjsb I know, that’s why I asked the question do USA fire appliances have water tanks like U.K. ones...I was looking at U.K. ones they carry up to 2000L of water with small hoses to tackle fires quickly having to plug into a water hydrant first would take a long time.

@@IansOddInterests The general thinking in the US is that nothing smaller than a 1 1/2" line at 150 GPM (600-ish LPM) will do the job against a fire. Some apparatus carry smaller booster lines for dumpsters, outdoor fires, etc, but they are not used for interior firefighting. The concern is that a booster line may not put out enough water to overcome the heat generated in a flashover situation. It's a philosophical difference between bringing a tool that will probably work, but might not be big enough or bringing one that will almost certainly work, but might be overkill and is slower to deploy.

Yes lacking a lot !! Sorta like American fire trucks are more for show than for functional purposes!! American firefighters are more stuck on traditional stuff than newer tactics. The older guys are thinking they will be phased out because of it and don’t want change!!

The neighbors are not so sad about the dog dying.

They did a horrible job. That department definitely needs training. It's embarrassing to other fire departments

@@charlesgarvey5660 No. Just NO. Not the best job ever, but at least average, especially for a VFD.

They did a terrible job getting water on that fire. It took way to long. I don't care if there volunteer or paid.

@@ffjsb not every Voly is like this. My Department would of had water on the 3 minutes earlier because of the training we do and how aggressive we are.

It's a reasonable observation- let's elaborate a bit for our viewers: (I had originally written this answer for the guy above you and I got the sense he would "get" the lingo- I'm going to leave the post as is though you've clearly stated you're not a firefighter. I've tried to lay it out for the layperson but it can be a LOT to digest so just work through it and ask any questions that come out of it... I'll do my best to walk you through it so you understand what's going on.) Keep in mind on arrival there was actually very little smoke showing. Why? Because the fire was just sitting in there percolating with some very inefficient bi-direction flow through those two windows. You might know what I mean- but for those who don't... the space in the broken windows is shared between the hot gases from the fire and the oxygen it needs to sustain itself. Is there a big hurry to put water on that? Meh... Vent limited, inefficient burning- It's easy to tell the door of the apartment is closed. Fire progress is miniscule and this point... loads of time to make sure everyone is evacuated. How sure do you have to be? Depends on the emergency evacuation plan of the building and what opportunities the fire department has to communicate with occupants- sheltering in place for much of the structure could be an option... but yeah having a dude going down the hall banging on doors telling people to get out would suffice. So to your question: Would water from an outside handline have hurt? Maybe, actually- given that at the point of arrival the fire is struggling to sustain itself and pouring a few hundred gallons of water in the space might have actually increased the amount of damage done and that's what we do best. I say it in another post: we're great at preventing 5000 dollars of fire damage by doing 50000 dollars of water damage. It's an important- VERY- important thing to consider when you ruin a person's apartment (plus all the people beneath) because their couch caught fire (example). I see the guy walking up with the water can (pressurized water extinguisher) early on- which I'm 95% certain would have put it out IF (and that's a big, big IF) ventilation had been disciplined which we learn later isn't the case. Meanwhile a handline and a backup get set up outside and charged ready to advance. Or not... charged hoselines aren't in everyone's procedure manual. You can pretty much tell when the front door to the impacted apartment was opened- a space the size of a small apartment with a fire struggling for air I'm thinking about 20 seconds from the door opening to when the fire kicked off and became a knuckleduster. You get that rush of air in AND if your hoseline is charged you can ride that in and kick the thing in the nuts with a quick shot. Can... hose... whatever. Ride that wave of fresh air introduced by opening the door to the apartment straight to the seat of the fire... and we're done. This didn't happen. Door was clearly left open... downstairs one probably too as people evacuated. Fire now transitions to a unidirectional flow allowing cool air to come in one opening (doors) and hot gases to escape from the other (windows) aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee'reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee OFF!! At this point yes- hitting it with all the cliches (hard from yard / wet stuff hot stuff blah blah blah) is a desirable option. Interesting to look at the fire behavior though since at first while the fire is getting oxygen there's SO MUCH FUEL (smoke) the fire is actually limited to the exterior where the 3 (4) sides of the fire triangle (tetrahedron) mix in correct proportions. Once it starts burning it starts drafting fuel from the space at a pretty nice velocity- At that point if I'm standing on the front lawn I'd be looking for that handline since a nice 20 second shot of water into the ceiling is going to completely reverse that fire schedule. Problem is now you've got guys in there- and you need to coordinate that attack with them so you don't blast them with steam. This is less likely with a solid bore line since it can penetrate the superheated layer building up at the ceiling and blob down very large, coarse droplets- absorbing a LOT of heat before converting to steam. So yeah- steam sucks as a dude in a lobster pot but so too does the radiant / convective heat created by a 1300 degree fire burning over your head so take your pick. HOT air rises so the steam descending on our poor firefighters is cooler than that... though still hotter than the air down around their knees. In the platinum armchair quarterback world they would have strictly disciplined the entry allowing just enough room to advance a hoseline through, had a hose line charged at the door (or a can), quickly opened and shut (or controlled the door) with a TIC to find the seat of the fire... sprayed it with water... THEN started to vent- hydraulic, PPV... whatever. Then picked up all that hose and go grab some lunch. They got there... it wasn't immaculate but it seldom ever is... very few of us (relative) get to go out and fight a bunch of fires anymore so each time brings its share of rust. I hope they're using this video to train off just as much as the rest of us are. anyway- aren't you glad you asked?

@@FromGamingwithLove0456 hell yeah I’m glad I asked. Thanks for the detailed response!

I was a firefighter in Germany and we try to minimize damage by water, could be the cause here. Also there is a myth among many American Fire Departments wich says that you push the fire inside when your extinguishing it from the outside wich is completely wrong.

How do you know they didn’t, did you see the other side of the building?

THIS PLACE IS A SCITT PITT PLACE REEKS OF TRASH AND PEOPLE ARE JUST MORONS

I saw that too, but there would not have been as much of a need if they were more proficient at getting the wet stuff on the red stuff a lot faster, and the white helmet had not gone upstairs and opened the door to provide more air to the fire before they were all ready.

Lack of exposure, they did fine!!

@@PMAN-jj1hn I agree! But we we can always learn from these videos and share accepted practices in the comments that have worked for departments who encounter these buildings everyday.

Sloppy stretch for sure.

Is ur phone smoking!?

@@jerseyshorefireresponse probably more than those two windows. 😂

Heavy smoke!!!! I even weighed it. Was like 1,300 pounds of smoke!!!

Hit it hard from the yard!

I guess IDLH doesn't hurt him... No SCBA for him!

His striking technique is on point at 7:11...looked like he was puffing the air out from under a fitted sheet.

@@brianjeffiers4283 I hope its sarcasm lol

The great white wave. No wonder this scene looked like a cluster fuck