he also could’ve just been referring to his siblings but i agree with you

@@joeelliott2810 I don't think so lol. Since none of them were mentioned in the conversation.

@@moeswagger2329 technically they were by theon.

Great comment!!!

It's also interesting given the fact that Theon and Robb teased and ridiculed Jon for most of his childhood for his status as a bastard but still Jon sees Theon as a brother.

It would be happy ending.

Not much ..... They were all "young and stupid". Rob got the short end of the stick and didn't have time to learn. Jon and Theon got molded by the things they endured. What they are now is because of that.

@@menecross true

@@menecross til the time of robb's death, theon and jon had it much harder still.

They would have be a great trio with time!

That is the weirdest image ever

Well Jon is still a half a wolf

Casshern Sins Jon is more a wolf than a dragon

Godot Jon is half Wolf half Dragon

Ankush Chauhan he’s actually more of a dragon

A rare gem in a cesspool of muddled dialogue that was season 7. Its evident that not having GRRM in their corner, or his books, have made writing a chore for the showrunners.

+Kori Jenkens It's hilarious how Theon is basically fine physically in the show when he is massively fucked up in the books due to Ramsay's torture.

Doesn't look physically fine to me.. Compared to season one, he's a mess.. Do you want him walking with a walking stick or in a wheelchair? This screenplay redeemed season 7 dialogue screenwriters

Barstool Blues he is completely fucked up mentally. we saw that when he jumped overboard

Joshua Plotkin yeah, he should've fought Euron to save Yara even though their fleet was annihilated and he was surrounded by the enemy...Running to save his life and live to fight another day is completely mentally fucked up.

Vamshi Vijaykumar I love Ned but the Greyjoy he “raised”(held as a political hostage to ensure his father’s good behavior) murdered two children. Theon is not a good man, he’s a child killer.

@@stirlingarcher7972 theres theon before ramsey and theon after ramsey, everything that theon had done he regrets entirely

GD Tempest he murdered two innocent children because he didn’t want to be embarrassed with his inability to catch Bran and Rickon. He can regret it all he wants, he’s a child killer. He killed two little boys in cold blood. If anything the fact he was raised by Ned makes him even worse bc he knew better.

Vamshi Vijaykumar jon was his blood

The good think in Got is no warrior is innocent children like cerseis children except joffrey or the farm boys rhaegars children they all died for stupid wars Ned is a good man but he killed arthur dayne cowardly he lead a war were two of the greyjoy sons were killed he let robert order the tagaryen childrens death

MrTenacity99 I agree to an extent but he had Maester Luwin trying desperately to help him time and time again when he took control of winterfell and he just refused to listen to him repeatedly.

I completely agree with you. Viewers forget to understand that he was just 16 or 17 when he first left Rob's camp and went to Balon Greyjoy!

0 empathy

And he got his approval just before his death

He's one of my fav besides J&B

"I should have died with Robb at the Red Wedding."

ChocolateRob hahahahahhaha

ChocolateRob nice one dude

Haha awesome

LOL

Hahahahahaahaha babayega

When Theon and Jon speak to each other.. I think it is the most powerful screenplay this season.

When Jon said he didnt have to choose. He was a greyjoy and a Stark. And Theons reaction. Best line in the episode.

NumberNeverLie Agree

Cause it's less memorable than the scene that comes right after this where Theon wins a fight by getting kicked in the crotch. Basically. I thought that scene was funny but yeah coming after an extremely important scene like this it may not have been the best shift in tone. Something really touching followed by an extremely cathartic but violent scene where Theon is getting his ass kicked up and down the beach (showing how strong and impervious he is to pain post-Ramsay, I guess) only to win, again, after utilizing the fact that he has no junk. So violence followed by comic relief. But yeah basically Theon died on the beach I think metaphorically and like all Kraken/Ironborn he rose again in the sea a new, better, stronger man with a new future that he now realizes is up to him to write.

As less empathy u have, less humanity u have and probably your character is not worth more than a coin. If you dont see the change in theons life and moral, as he choses to change and knows that, even if he was a stark prisioner, even if he was balon's son and heir, he sould not have betrayed then, and if you dont see his effort to become a better person... If you are ok to his suffering, because " aaah its Theon", you should see a psichologist or psichiatrist.

richtea87 I think Alfie better than Kit at acting. Lena Headey and Dinklage are better than Clarke. Headey is so convincing that people at the conventions can’t separate the actress from her role. Headey in person is quite charming and a goof ball

Definitely, the best of the show

🤘

@@gcs7817 Definetely agree to that, their acting is so real to me, also Nikolaj as Jaime is very complex just like Tyrion

@@swathered I don't like how Jamie just went back to being Jaime at the end of Got...

Slay er beautifully said

+Potato neither is he of john, but Slay er is right he was their parent

"he may have been your father boy, but he wasn't your daddy"

Well said

Dead Meme was definitely a father to them in all but biologically.

Gendry was Baratheon’s bastard

​@@mannyhp6717 Wouldn't be surprised if ned took him as either a ward, essentially adopting him. Had what happened didn't happen.... You know what I mean

Not really Ned left him and his siblings where he found them he raised Greyjoy and snow out of duty and came to care for them in his way

Jon Snow is not targerian Ageon targerian is his name 😎

@@neelparekh1759 he is half stark so he is both.

@@red2977 😅 i don't remember finite details, will have to watch it again 😅😅

@@neelparekh1759 his mother is Lyanna Stark, and his father is Rhaegar Targaryen. Half Stark + half Targaryen 😎

@@esotericintrovert1669 i remember that 😅

SilverSauce The Emmys are a popularity contest. Which means that Alfie Allen and Charles Dance were doomed to fail from the beginning, since everyone is in love with the crappy actor and actress Kit and Emma

Kit is not a crappy actor lol. And Emelia (I guess you meant her) isn't the best of the best, but she improves every season! And yes, Charles and Alfie and many more are maybe better actors then them, but they are certainly not crappy!

Being in the entertainment business that involves all the tv shows and movies and stuff it is literally the only profession where you get yearly awards that are worth so much just for doing your job.

Justice Emilia is kinda awful. Watch her act in other things where she’s not surrounded by cgi that makes her look badass, she can’t act. She completely ruined Me Before You.

Exactly

Bet he'd rather have his cock back though!

robert fenton Old Theon would. But now Theon has became much wiser.

What if Theon is the one who reminds him of that? that would be awesome!

I know I would LOL

What is a cock if you are not a man? The sweetest love is a man with courage, love, humour and integrity. Some men think cock is all, joyfully cock is not all, at best it's a bonus, but the best men and women are simply good people.

it's kinda bs though. Theon merced like fifty innocent people taking Winterfell, including women and children. Book Jon will straight up shank a bitch when he sees him, and it will be the wedge that makes him fight Stannis.

​@@jacobenke7936 depends on how he changed after death.

Yeah, I think he is one of the best characters is GOT. Theon in the show is the only character I like more than the books.

Love him 😍

Yeah his acting was almost perfect even when he was reek he played the role so well

And his sister's fit.

Ned Stark may not be Jon Snow's father, but he'll always be his daddy

Rhaegar might have been your father boy but he wasnt your daddy "

Lorenzo Escudero King no Robb was the closest son to Ned because of his honor

Well, Ned married Catlyn, the woman he was assigned to marry, Robb on the other hand didnt so maybe they're not that similar

@_Nhokz _ they were both just as honorable, but Jon showed more of Ned's characteristics of how we knew him in season 1, Robb showed more what a young Ned could've been

Probably the most anti-climactic line for the ending of a character's arc ever written. Hell, all of Bran's lines are rubbish after season 6.

Oh damn you put me in my feels with that!

WHY?!!! ...sobs in a corner for days...

Brian Fitzsimmons I loved that line, but I can see where you're coming from, in my opinion apart from Brienne being knighted Bran calling Theon a good man is the only good scene in season 8

A great observation at that. Jon has one major thing over Robb, integrity. Robb was a good man, but he wasn't a leader. Jon puts people a head of himself, regardless of what they've done. That's why he is a true King and has many allies like Daenerys.

Incredible Jake Robb wasn't a good leader that's crap no offense but he united the north at a younger age and gained the respect of seasoned northern lords. People let the red wedding skew their views of Robbs traits when he was one of the best rulers in the series who had the plot against his favor

Good point. Don't get me wrong, I liked Robb and the Red Wedding (in-universe) was unacceptable. But Robb also made a lot of clueless choices like killing Lord Kastark. But The North shouldn't remember him like that. The North remembers, but didn't care.

robb like stark were examples of being too stern 'letter-of-the law'. Other rulers like Joffrey examples of the opposite ...being capricious.The best rulers i think GRRM wants us to see are those who keep balance between mercy and wrath.

Incredible Jake Robb couldnt plan ahead

Best comment.

I also hate when people call him boring or stupid. Jon is an inspiration because he beat the odds of being labeled a bastard who got sent to the wall. He wasn’t blessed with any particular extraordinary gifts, yes he’s a great fighter but even he says Robb was better. He defended those who couldn’t fight for themselves (Sam), never judged those who were different than him (free folk), and earned the trust of those around him with bravery and just plain decency. He’s a great example of how courage and doing the right thing can get you far in life. He’s probably the most human character in the show because of that.

@@sftheletters yeah exactly. Everything he has it feels like he earns.

I absolutely love this thread. Jon snow is one of the best characters written on television and has a beautiful story.

I've never heard anybody call him boring and stupid. Maybe a bit dumb when it comes to being too honorable, and he wasn't good at playing the game because of it just like Ned, but he wasn't a fan favorite for nothing. It's only the writers that made him a fucking dimwitted idiot in the 8th season.

Was this "tough"? It just seemed kind, caring, understanding, and attentive. Jon could have probably done anything at all to Theon at this point, and basically nobody would have batted an eye. The guy betrayed both his families and got tonnes of people from each side killed, abused, and captured, after all. Instead, Jon let Theon talk, listened attentively, forgave him for what he could, accepted him back into the Starks, and quietly supported him in the choice he had to make (to save Yara). He didn't sugar-coat anything, no- but saccharine is really just as fake and self-serving as vengeance. Just..

@@neolexiousneolexian6079 It also should be noted that the Starks are not his family and he didn't betray them since Robb is the only one that trusted him.

@@augustusfreeman4032 he bent the knee to Robb so he betrayed Robb but not the starks

This is....not tough at all, considered what Theon did to them.

@@vishaansingh1019 Tough love and punishment aren't the same thing.

Nah. I read it in a fanfic where they found another one direwolf pup and called him Squid)) "A direwolf called Squid" - for me, it suits Theon so much more)))

Jon is more Wolf than dragon, tbh.

James Fergisson what the Fucks a theron?

Who needs a good character arc when they have a nicely shaped arch

If Theon is your favorite character and you haven’t read the books then READ THE BOOKS. His chapters are the best!

mine too

I wouldn’t blame it all on her. Yes she wasn’t as great of a mother as she should’ve been, especially when it came to Jon, but honestly, her anger towards Jon is realistic. If your husband comes home with another woman’s baby, and basically ignores your feelings about it all, that’s gonna build up resentment and anger, even if the child doesn’t deserve it. Cat knows this, at least in the show, but she can’t bring herself to act and make amends with Jon or herself. As for Sansa, Cat wasn’t to blame for Sansa’s decisions, Sansa was. Of course she was young and naïve, and both Cersei and Varys manipulated her into getting what they wanted, while making it appear that Sansa was doing the right thing. Blame that all on Catelyn is unfair, even if she does share some blame in it.

Lmao the catelyn hate is ridiculous. I definitely think she overdid it but she had a very good reason not to treat jon as a stark. He is a bastard, but eddard presented him as his bastard which makes him a rival to her own children whether he likes it or not. When aegon IV treated daemon blackfyre as a targaryen, 5 civil wars happened. Even if jon himself wouldn't oppose robb, his children or even lords whom just have a bone to pick with robb, could easily start shit.

@@mappingshaman5280but why hate a baby who didn’t ask for it

@@acrazysheepdog1555but why should she hate children who didn’t have or want parts of this she should’ve been a better person and mother figure

Jon was never friends with Theon, Theon was Robb's friend.

Yeah. Jon thought Theon was a Dbag in the books.

mmalovr57 Theon is a Dbag, he’s a child killer. I hate that the show makes him so sympathetic. This is basically an alternate universe, that’s how I think of it, it’s the only way to not get pissed at the show’s shitty characterization.

@@stirlingarcher7972 Dude after enduring Ramsay EVERYONE is sympathetic.

Facundo Gonza dude, after murdering children, Ramsay was a well earned punishment.

Robb would be like "he has to die."

and that's why he's not as good of a king as Jon is.

Tobi Oduntan Robb would forgive Theon to if he learned he never killed Bran and Rickon and saved Sansa

Robb is always on my mind when I see Jon carrying on without him.

The810kid no I think he'd definitely kill. I can imagine Robb saying something like " you may have saved my sister and spared my brothers, but you still betrayed the North and helped put hundreds of northmen to the sword. I sentence you to die"

Jon´s words gave him some. I love Jon for it.

He doesn’t have a dick

if you think this has a happy ending you haven't been paying attention

I think the kids Theon killed deserved happiness, Theon deserved everything he got because he murdered children.

Lmaooooo he died last night

Snow Robb would have hung theon... so no...

Robb is the one who literally told Theon he WASN’T a Stark…that he was less than. If he had been more kind and familial, Theon would’ve never chosen his ass of a father over the Starks.

@@jenniferkhan3686 Robb told Theon that because Theon would always talk about how he was prince Theon Greyjoy and the air to the iron islands, he always went out of his way to let people know who he was, he literally had the blacksmith put a krackon (symbol of the Greyjoy house) on his armour, why should Robb acknowledge someone as part of house stark who literally goes out of their way to let people know that the stark house wasnt his house? make it make sense. I would also like to add that Robb was the only stark who ACTUALLY treated Theon as family and like a brother. Theon would have dreams of marrying Sansa just so that he would be Robb's brother by marriage. He loved Robb.

arkbuble who's Theon talking about?

@@reezy69 Yara, his qister

Lol

Theon is one of the few characters whose arc remained decent until the very end, he's up there as my favorite character alongside Jaime and Stannis.

correct.I knew he'd probably "have to die" to redeem himself but I cried like a baby when he did. I loved Theon. He was so human at his core. I also would have loved to have seen his and Sansas relationship develop....

Nah! He's just Reek and he always will be :)

Nobody will be in the Iron Islands when he gets there because Euron actually went to Essos. Besides, what's Theon gonna do with one boat again the Iron Fleet? Theon is as good as dead.

The Cockless King Greyjoy

Max Jr he is supporting and supported by the most powerful military force in Westeros. He is far from dead yet.

robert fenton Dude. Are you not seeing the evolution here? You will not call him "reek", you will call him Theon Starkjoy.

Not just this episode but this entire season.. Emotional, powerful and GoT did it without any blood..

This scene, along with Cersei and Tyrion's, are definitely the standouts of this episode.

Weird of you to specify their nationality but ok...

I love that the original title for the last book was A Time For Wolves... I wonder if it's a bad sign that he changed it

Jjjj

Unfortunately the writers fucked everything up smh

He wasnt completely wrong in feeling as he did , they may have been close as brothers but rob and others kept reminding him that he wasn't a stark

I hadn't noticed that before. Nice little bit of acting from Kit there. A slight narrowing of the eyes and hardening of the features.

And think about why that is. Jon's emotions change and he becomes angry at the mere mention of Sansa from another man or the mention of those men who hurt her. Even when Tyrion mentions the sham marriage Jon suddenly gets uncomfortable. Jon's love for Sansa is an undying, unconditional devoted love. And his hatred for men that hurt her burns with a dragons fire.

Ur muh kwean

I doubt Robb would've been as forgiving as Jon was here. Robb was too honor-bound and arrogant, he would've followed the rules of treason 100% and executed Theon rather than hearing him out and understanding the situation he was dealing with.

John Paige Robb was closer to Theon so it's understandable if he would never forgive Theon. Jon only forgave him because of Theon saving Sansa and the truth of his brothers. If Robb had the same knowledge he possibly could have forgiven him as well simply because he was the closest to Theon

I don't think robb could ever forgive theon it was theons actions that led to the death of his wife unborn child his mother and the reason his people were ruled by the boltons robb may understand theons decisions but he could never forgive them

Rob wouldn't forgive Theon. Robb liked Jon, but you could tell he was much closer to Theon. Edward raised these two together in the hope that one day the Starks and Greyjoys would unite as one. Theon was his best friend which makes his betrayal far more egregious considering their history and the fact that Theon would double cross him in the middle of a war and for the people who cast him aside.

Jon has had tunnel vision since he's been reborn or at least that's how he's been written because I also find it hard to believe that he hasn't even mention Robb once

Yes, but Robb failed at being King, and there's a division even in the North of blaming him or mourning him. If I were Jon, at least right now as he's establishing his rule, that's not a debate I'd want to enter. He can neither defend Robb's choices or condemn them. Better to leave that wound to heal a while and not pick at it.

Greyark

Tommy Vercetti Harvard should give you a scholarship for your problem solving

Bahraini Gooner Robb was closer to Theon than any one in the Starks he most likely would have forgave him if he had the same knowledge Jon did. Last Robb knew of Theon was him at his worst had he learned every thing Theon did after season 2 and endured he would have buried the grudge.

Theon and Robb was like best friends. They were close and always played together. Northerners all were weary of Theon and didn't trust him, but not Robb - Rob admired him from the moment he met him at 5 years old (Theon was 10). Theon and Jon were never close - they had a competetive streak, because of the similarity of their positions in the Stark household. Robb and Theon - it's safe to say that they loved each other like brothers. It makes all that Theon did that much more heartbreaking. If Robb was in Jon's place right now, he would be much more angry (because he would actually feel totally betrayed - his trust in Theon was total), but he would also forgive him, because that's what family does. Theon's struggle was really a hard one. He was taken from his family at 10 years old by the man who defeated his family and killed his brothers. Granted, his brothers were not nice people (a lot like their father), but still. All his impresionable years Theon had to live among people who all saw him as an enemy, who looked down on him and never trusted him. Robb was THE ONLY ONE who didn't do that. Every time Theon witnessed Ned executing someone, he wondered if it will be his own head on the block next time. Because Theon was a hostage, not a ward like many show-watchers think. He was a safety measure to ensure his father didn't rebelled. If he did, Theon would have been executed. All Theon desperately wanted his whole life was to belong. On one hand he had his Greyjoy family who was his trueblood family, who he wanted to make proud of him, but who never loved him. On another hand he had the Stark family, who clearly loved each other, and Theon wanted to have that, too. Only, to them, he was just a hostage/ward. Safe only for Robb. He wanted to be a part of that perfect loving family, but knew that there was no place for him there. When during war, he genuinly wanted to help Robb. In his mind it would be perfect - he would help his "adoptive" brother and would make proud his real family. But the real dick his father pressured him and made him choose. From then on his road went downhill. And you know how the show made him say that Ned was his "real father who died in King's Landing"? The book doesn't have that. But Martin gave him another words: "And Robb. Robb who had been more a brother to Theon than any son born of Balon Greyjoy’s loins. Murdered at the Red Wedding, butchered by the Freys... I should have been with him. Where was I? I should have died with him."

+Вероника Столетняя Great explanation, the characters are sooo good on this show (and in the books)

Robb wouldn't kill someone after they had saved his little sister even after they betrayed Robb himself. He'd probably have him imprisoned still for mutiny but spare him for saving Sansa.

They both are worse.He should have killed Theon.

Yeah, poor Theon, he was embarrassed that he couldn’t find Bran and Rickon so he decided to murdered children instead of admit he didn’t know where they were. Theon was never Ned’s son, he was a political hostage. His bloodline actually did define him, did you notice how fast he decided to murder children? That’s pure Greyjoy. There is no release from the shame of killing children.

Watch season 1 episode 1

they did share a scene bro

He could ambush him or something. Turn his men against him. Maybe try to fight him one on one. There are many ways he can best his uncle without breaking the rules.

Euron cant lose to theon. Euron has more ships, is very experienced in naval warfare, possesses the biggest fleet of the two and his crew is unwavering to his cause. I dont see him being defeated without dragons tbh

Klio Seth I m absolutely 100% sure that he will be raided by the army of the dead... they only need ships and thats it really

I see what you did there🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣