My Most Anti-Symbolic Talk - The Quest for a Spiritual Home conference

Рет қаралды 36,136

Күн бұрын

My talk at The Quest for a Spiritual Home conference in Chino, California in May 2023 with Paul VanderKlay, John Vervaeke, and John Van Donk.
Title: The Importance of Disappointment
This was the second talk after Paul VanderKlay.
Event info: thesymbolicworld.com/news/est...
---
Timestamps:
00:00:00 - Coming up next...
00:00:42 - Intro music
00:01:07 - Start
00:02:55 - An anti-symbolic talk
00:04:12 - Longing for the Garden
00:06:20 - Ulysses
00:07:41 - An eschatological memory
00:08:27 - Idolatry
00:11:18 - You will be disappointed
00:13:22 - A tension between the parts and the whole
00:16:17 - The heavenly Jerusalem
00:18:30 - Concession
00:20:50 - For your salvation
00:23:24 - Inevitable
00:25:16 - Consumer culture
00:27:15 - The Lamb and sacrifice
00:31:41 - The ascetics
00:35:26 - Conclusion
---
💻 Website and blog: www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🗣 Join The Symbolic World Community for discussions about symbolism: thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
🔒 BECOME A PATRON
Website: thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
Patreon: / pageauvideos
📱 SOCIAL MEDIA
Facebook: / thesymbolicworld
Twitter: / pageaujonathan
Instagram: / jonathan.pageau
Our website designers: www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.

Пікірлер: 217

@Caustic12 Жыл бұрын

I remember as a child my favorite dog escaped. I ran after her with all I had, for nearly an hour. Eventually chasing her into a nearby field where I realized there was no hope of catching her now. She had slept with me every night and she meant a lot to me growing up. I loved that dog. I nearly cried at how frustrated I was, how betrayed I felt at her running from me, and how badly I didn't wanna lose her. Eventually I had to resign myself to the fact I couldn't catch her now. Exhausted, I began to head back home. Then at about halfway there I was shocked to find her following behind me. She was only running because I was chasing her. After I gave up trying to get her though, she came back, willingly this time, and it meant she 'wanted' to be at home with me too. No matter how much you love someone or something, always be ready to let them go, because sometimes what you get in the end is worth so much more.

@semmikozod1139 Жыл бұрын

I hate this. I hate this idea of letting go. Why? Why do people hate me for wanting them around? Why do I have to lose everyone that matters to me? I want to HAVE things. I hate freedom, let it burn in hell.

@Caustic12 Жыл бұрын

@@semmikozod1139 You have that mindset, yet it sounds like you're in hell because of it. I hope one day you find peace.

@garyfamilathe7805 Жыл бұрын

Best comment ever 😎

@dccopi Жыл бұрын

@@semmikozod1139 “having” is inherently transitory. Why fool yourself into thinking it will be forever?

@Sharki91 Жыл бұрын

⁠@@semmikozod1139 i hear you. Me too. I think he’s saying you can have it, just don’t grasp it or chase it.

@silvinasi Жыл бұрын

As Therese of Lisieux kept repeating to herself in her times of utter darkness: "The world is your ship, not your home ."

@daves-c8919 Жыл бұрын

Wow.

@garrywindshield1 10 ай бұрын

I heard that orthodox churches are designed to resemble ship (like Noah's ark), so it's a vessel to swim through all of this

@W-G 10 ай бұрын

The Catholic church also identifies ifself as a ship in many ways its very symbolic.

@user-kx7eu9lt3n Жыл бұрын

This talk resonates with me a lot. For most of my life I had that "broken feeling", like I can't rest in anything because it's going to disappoint or fall apart. I was mad at the world for this, sulking like a child. I pushed away a lot of people, squandered many years, deep down yearning to be "rescued", to be proven wrong. But slowly it dawned on me, this is it, this is the human condition. I can't change it no matter how hard I try, how much I rebel. I can pretend, I can make an idol out of my pain, but it gets tedious after a while. An honest look at myself and the world makes everything so much lighter.

@peten5426 Жыл бұрын

Well put and same here. "(Making) an idol of of my pain" reflects the pathological side of the psychologization of everything

@OrthodoxInquirer Жыл бұрын

Well put. Recently I realized that all my family members that died (contributing to what I was calling my PTSD or childhood trauma) were actually living out their life to its fulfillment. If I start looking at their deaths as the culmination of their story instead of something about me being a victim, it made it so much lighter. I was looking at my grandfather's esophageal cancer death when I was 6 as something that happened to me, because I witnessed it, but it's actually the end of his journey and really nothing to do with me, except helping me accept that death is a part of life, I guess. I have my own journey that I'm on and my own end that I will face, hopefully a fulfillment of a life well lived.

@tensevo Жыл бұрын

stop worshiping physical, material and mortal beings, only worship the non-physical, non-material and immortal.

@OrthodoxInquirer Жыл бұрын

@@tensevo That's actually not Orthodox. We worship Christ in His physical, resurrected body. I know you mean not to worship our relatives, but coming to terms with grief, pain and suffering is not something that can be easily dismissed as easy to do. This is especially true when tragic things happen when we are children.

@tensevo Жыл бұрын

@@OrthodoxInquirer nevverr sed it woz orthodox

@elenav.4355 Жыл бұрын

Basically ‘you have to die before you die so that you don’t die when you die’

@mingus445_gaming Жыл бұрын

yes

@joshgodfrey5683 Жыл бұрын

Best comment

@ordersoahc Жыл бұрын

Yes, but in little bits - all the time. Giving up your self-centered desires for self-lessness. Which might be something like what Muraresku was really looking for.

@RodrigoMera Жыл бұрын

That's it!

@summan41man Жыл бұрын

Jordan Peterson. I heard him say the same and it hit me too

@KingPhilipF Жыл бұрын

This is Christianity. I don't doubt you can come to God having a wonderful life but heartbroken, wounded by love, knees shattered, and soul wrenched, now you are ready. Ek Nekron.

@andrescarrillo6700 Жыл бұрын

Jonathan only seems to amaze me. I am a young man, only 23, but God has graciously let me see through the wheel of fortune, we find ourselves. I am constantly reminded that Jesus is at the center. Thank you, Jonathan, for sharing some insights. I wish formake this more palatable for the younger generation.

@danielmartines3859 Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@rexgloriae316 Жыл бұрын

A great Christian understanding of "detachment". Similar to the calling of the stoics, but without love, stoics ends up being too harsh, and their philosophy practically unliveable. To another point JP makes; I think we can also end up idolising ("resting in") virtue itself. So, my chastity or patience becomes the whole point of the spiritual life. What comes with that is scrupulosity, despair, and guilt - because guess what, I will fall, and I will disappoint myself. So, then, do we detach from this expectation of perfectionism in this virtue? this seems to be the case. What's hard though, is the balance between the two: once we admit that we are imperfect, the danger is that we give up on being virtuous at all. And this cannot be the answer. So, as I see it, it's something like admitting your imperfections while striving towards it - yoked together with Christ.

@dccopi Жыл бұрын

Great point. I think this is why the Love of God is the among the greatest commandments. We offer up these virtues and sacrificial love to God, so that we do not need to hold on to these things. It is for the Glory of God that we act in this way, not for ourselves.

@dccopi Жыл бұрын

Pageau has a great video, “The Wage of Sin is Death” where he describes the way the Christ supersedes the legalistic approach to the Law and how the Love of God will imbue your actions as to naturally act within the Law and Commandments.

@migspeculates 8 ай бұрын

Buddhist perspective on clinging and attachment can help in embodying and practicing Christian "detachment".

@wendellwood5250 Жыл бұрын

The reason the Father loves Me is that I lay down My life in order to take it up again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father.” John 10:17-18

@haben7990 Жыл бұрын

Holding back tears at work

@tomzom4849 Жыл бұрын

I was in my garden thinking about a tree chair when I clicked to listen to this ...that was awesome!

@WiseLex3 Жыл бұрын

Amazing, just amazing! Thank you very much for that. Please bring more of this subject on your channel.

@phoenixoliviacopy2727 Жыл бұрын

Could you please do a video on the idea of Mercy or Grace. Thank you for your priceless work.

@Theotokosprayforus Жыл бұрын

What a beautiful talk. This was like a balm to my soul.

@faevoryn6578 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for this. I'm so grateful that you posted it!

@alexr.3504 Жыл бұрын

Wonderful!!! ❤ Thank you, Jonathan!

@riapresley5446 Жыл бұрын

Beautiful...simple...deep...revealing of secrets ...that are for everyone...presented in a lovely ...soft flow

@Ac-ip5hd Жыл бұрын

Watched on PVK. Excellent talk.

@W-G 10 ай бұрын

Wow. I am so grateful for God leading me here and letting me find this incredible Wisdom from you Jonathan. You have a great gift of delivering incredibly complex life lessons that take people their entire lives to figure out or not at all. God Bless you and I will be watching so much more of your content than what I already have. I sometimes feel called to sacrafice everything I have and become a monk or just go wandering but I believe right now this involves too much ego on my part like I want to do it to prove I can or get something out of it undeserved.

@OlenaWatterson-sh9cf Жыл бұрын

It is absolutely awesome!!! Desperately needed !! Thank You !!!

@cidklutch Жыл бұрын

Great lecture Jonathan. As always, I've come away with deeper insights on reality.

@martinjoseferreyra1961 Жыл бұрын

Thanks Jonathan!

@stepanium Жыл бұрын

Reminds me of Zizek's sublime objects of ideology: you can't break free from the ideology of you think in terms of it's central value. You can reject it, but then you still think in terms of it.

@elektrotehnik94 Жыл бұрын

Žižek is often quite weird - but he also has some piercing insights; from time to time. Take it with a grain of salt, from a philosophy-interested Slovenian (where Žižek is from). ❤

@stepanium Жыл бұрын

@@elektrotehnik94 Of course) No truth is final, no person is beyond being hugely mistaken. But the imperfect thoughts of others can inspire you to change your own relationship with reality and I think that's enough.

@Waffnub Жыл бұрын

Spoke very deeply to many of my day to day experiences and anxieties. Thank you Jonathan

@dalibofurnell Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much, Johnathan. I already watched this talk, You are a brave person with courage and you are a joy. God bless you!

@johnhalbigauthor Жыл бұрын

Jonathan Pageau: Omg I have to give my talk tomorrow and have no idea what topic to discuss! Attendee: Hey Mr. Pageau! I flew all the way across the country to hear you talk about symbolism sir! I know you won't disappoint me 😉 Jonathan Pageau: I will be the disappointment you need, but not the one you want right now.

@jonasvaitiekunas2713 Жыл бұрын

Bless you❤️❤️❤️

@Rick01650 Жыл бұрын

Thank you Jonathan for this enlightening talk!

@JohnSaber Жыл бұрын

Jonathan speaks with power. I love this.

@danielwilson2221 Жыл бұрын

This is so true. Transcends the creed and religion. And a timely message for me.

@danielwilson2221 Жыл бұрын

@@chanting_germ. I'm saying it's metaphysically true. Many people regardless of religion have had the experience. Are you a metaphysical zombie??? No inner experience?

@calebvoyles4579 Жыл бұрын

This is amazing! Can't wait to hold a piece of this. I loved Heather's comparison of the two different representations of the road to Emaus. I recently did a biblical film project and used Caravaggio as the main visual reference for the exact reasons that she mentioned. Now I'm wondering if I should push it in the opposite direction

@OnlyOneName Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@sirdaniel159 9 ай бұрын

You helph me so much!

@kaiser724 Жыл бұрын

This is absolutely beautiful

@seantoal5261 Жыл бұрын

one of my favourite talks from you!

@lynnharalam1795 Жыл бұрын

As a fairly new convert to Orthodoxy, I have been in awe of the immense wealth of spiritual healing this ancient Christian faith has to offer humanity. The book Orthodox Psychotherapy along with numerous other Orthodox writings have been a true blessing. I must admit, I was truly disappointed in the New Calendar Orthodox Church and the direction it has taken to modernize its Holy Traditions and Doctrine but thankfully, with God's grace and direction, we have found a place of refuge in the Traditional Old Calendar Orthodox Church. The old school is always the best school:) If you are ever in the Toronto area, please take time to visit Holy Theotokos Convent in Cedar Valley. It's a little piece of paradise on God's beautiful Earth.

@Sharki91 Жыл бұрын

Hi which author? Seems like there’s a lot of similar titles.

@elenav.4355 Жыл бұрын

@@Sharki91 Orthodox Psychotherapy is by Metropolitan Hieroteos Vlachos.

@whitemakesright2177 Жыл бұрын

I've been Orthodox for 3 years and have found no healing at all.

@countdooku75 Жыл бұрын

⁠@@whitemakesright2177you’ve held onto your pride for 3 years then. And clearly you’re resentful, else you wouldn’t be spewing venom towards people sharing their stories out of love and gratitude. Still, I understand and empathize with you. It is a nearly unbearable and long journey for some, myself included. I will pray for you.

@whitemakesright2177 Жыл бұрын

@@countdooku75 Where do you get off? You don't even know me and you're telling me I've been "holding onto my pride." Evangelicals say some wacky presumptious stuff, but the Orthodox really take the cake. To just blatantly declare something like that about someone you've never met, when I was simply expressing my pain - now that's real pride. And it's judgement, too, so congratulations, you just did the double whammy of the worst sins in Orthodoxy. And with your little throwaway afterthought of false humility. Yes, I'm resentful, because I was tricked with false promises into wasting 3 years of my life in this soul-crushing religion of Phariseeism and empty rituals. I'm trying to warn people by telling them the truth from my experience: that most people absolutely will not find what they are looking for in the Orthodox Church. I've met some really wonderful Orthodox people, but the Orthodox Church itself is a dung heap. For what it's worth, I'm still trying to figure out a way to salvage some kind of faith in Christ, but I can tell you that He is not to be found in the teachings and practices of the Orthodox Church.

@irenecampos1582 Жыл бұрын

Great talk!

@florindragosminculescu Жыл бұрын

Finally! I personally think that in times when everyone is running after pleasure, the indication of obtaining pleasure by abstaining from pleasure is essential, because it helps people understand the role of pain, disappointment, betrayal, etc. In the end, all of this being, in a difficult way to understand, an indication of the fact that more is possible, that there are aspects waiting to be revealed, and maybe in the end we can understand not only the fact that this is how reality works, but that is the very process of creation, we have the chance to understand that the divine loses its qualities to make "place" for creation and becomes all the elements that constitute creation and finally becomes that dimension of creation that is capable of realizing all these mysteries of reality- Jesus was born a baby like any other baby, unable to hold his own head, vulnerable and in great need of help from others to finally present himself fully human and fully divine. Thank you!

@raiynepaige Жыл бұрын

This talk is brilliant Jonathan wow. Thank you!

@dustinneely Жыл бұрын

In John Boorman's Excalibur King Arthur and the Fisher King become a composite character. Arthur is the Fisher King. He loses Paradise (Camelot) and the land becomes a wasteland following a series of tragedies. Arthur is wounded and falls into a state of living death, and the land suffers with him. After Perceval retrieves the Holy Grail King Arthur drinks from the chalice and is reborn. He utters the most amazing line - "I didn't know how empty was my soul...until it was filled."

@markcounseling Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing that, gives me a new understanding of soul. And I remember seeing that film when it came out, as a high schooler a bit too young for the R rating. Powerfully strange and interesting film with great performances ...

@ibelieve3111 7 ай бұрын

Thanks

@justadog-headedman6727 Жыл бұрын

very good, could relate a a lot

@joannasen5232 Жыл бұрын

My favourite Pageau talk.

@iankaiser2401 Жыл бұрын

This is one of the best talks that you’ve given, because every single person is looking for that rest, happiness, joy. Not just Western culture, this concept is the fallacy of Eastern religions that somehow, you can reach this “Zen/Nirvana” type state. But that doesn’t exist unless you are literally dead and either in complete rest in God in Heaven or complete distress in Hell. And we either climb the ladder up/down now, or after we pass.

@papercut7141 Жыл бұрын

They call it "practicing death" in zen for a reason

@elektrotehnik94 Жыл бұрын

@@papercut7141 And learning about any religion from Wikipedia-level knowledge source will inevitably omit the proper framing towards understanding properly, like this. ❤

@papercut7141 Жыл бұрын

@@elektrotehnik94 you can save the condescension, friend

@hellomate639 Жыл бұрын

I think the joy comes in that you realize that once you let go, you truly experience the eternal in the moment. Imagine that you no longer had to have the fear that you were going to lose someone, and could just enjoy the moment with them as it is, without force or restriction. That is the joy of letting go.

@agustinchristensen5201 Жыл бұрын

“The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man hath nowhere to lay His head.” Mathew 8:20

@W-G 10 ай бұрын

Beautiful deep felt Truth

@TheModernHermeticist Жыл бұрын

This is the best talk I've ever heard you give.

@gentlelamb5199 Жыл бұрын

St John of the cross should have very similar thing about grasping the nutshell and missing the kernel of life within. Jesus also said in a similar vein not to worry about food or clothing but the value life to which these things are only servants. Other Saints when they got to the very end they're contemplating could only say, nothing nothing nothing. In other words there is nothing they could envision or hold onto but rather it is God himself who holds onto them and that is how they know they are home

@theeratchat.1948 Жыл бұрын

I watched this VDO 3 times. It's a blessing. Thank You GOD and thank you brother Jonathan Pageau for using God's given gift for the benefit of other. GOD bless you. I hope you make more VDO similar to this one. Thank you very much. 🙏

@SimpleAmadeus Жыл бұрын

Becoming disappointed with everyone, and then finally myself as well, is what caused me to give up on my (nihilist materialist) life and start my journey out of atheism and towards Orthodoxy (quite recently, after almost a decade of detours). It's comical how perfectly everything in my life is falling into place lately, with barely any effort, considering that I only care about these things ( career, social life, material goods, planning) insofar that I consider them my duty as a follower of Christ. I almost don't even care anymore when something goes wrong because without exception it turns into something good or great, usually within a day or so. It feels like cheating. In a bizarre way, it almost feels like God has abandoned me at times, because I know that God is supposed to challenge us, but every challenge seems to resolve itself almost automatically by just assuming that God is doing it for a reason. I'm sort of anticipating that it will collapse, because it feels as if I cheated my way into an unintentional loophole that I'm not supposed to be using.

@whitemakesright2177 Жыл бұрын

Give it time, you'll be disappointed by Jesus, too.

@OrthodoxInquirer Жыл бұрын

You've discovered a truth. It's powerful, don't let the other commenter steal your joy of sharing the truth. If you look at his screen name that's all you need to know.

@whitemakesright2177 Жыл бұрын

@@OrthodoxInquirer I've been Orthodox for 3 years and found nothing in Jesus Christ but disappointment. The original commenter is in a phase and so are you, I get it, I was there too. But it won't last. Get back to me when you've been pouring your soul out to Jesus for 3 years and he's never given you so much as a wink. There's no spiritual reality to Christianity, it's all vapor. Smoke and mirrors, placebo effect, and confirmation bias can keep you going for only so long. Eventually most people realize there's nothing there. There's a reason most converts don't last, and most cradles don't stick around, and it's not because they're evil or they're doing it wrong. For what it's worth, I'm not a nihilist or a materialist or an atheist. I'm not sure what the ultimate Truth is anymore, but I know it isn't Christianity.

@curlyfryactual Жыл бұрын

It's no cheat code. Regard Jesus: Accept that you will die, betrayed, slain for no wrongdoing, abandoned by all or most of your friends, poor and without even a tomb to your name. Somehow, becoming acquainted with this fate usurps it. Everything you then have the privilege of enjoying in your life becomes a gift. But even Jesus, in is affliction, is singing the Psalm 22, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" So from pain we will not be exempt, but in the resurrection neither will we be forgotten. Struggle on, even when it gets very hard, God will bless you for this alone, because this is faith. Christ peace be upon you ☦️

@SimpleAmadeus Жыл бұрын

@@whitemakesright2177 No sir. It turns out that Jesus is the perfect holy standard, in comparison to Whom everyone else is the disappointment. It is impossible for Him to disappoint. The only disappointment that may happen from here on out is that I would disappoint Him.

@priscilla9995 Жыл бұрын

For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. Philippians 1:21

@andrewbfrost7021 Жыл бұрын

Joseph Smith said “A religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things never has the power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation.”

@gordonphillips92 Жыл бұрын

Listening to Jonathan is a lot like reading Jung: the experience is breathtaking in its palpable wisdom and yet, at the end, I'm never quite sure exactly what has been said. The part where Jonathan comments on whether its good that we, like Cain, build a home, and answers both yes and now--that kind of sums up my conception of what he is saying. It's tantalizing, profound, and kind of makes sense, but also kind of doesn't; at least, there is no exclusive answer; it's kind of both, neither either or.

@alibertvarmeziari5820 Жыл бұрын

This speech was so relatable Tragic and comedic The simple fact that even the nihilist has to assume sth for at least a bitter meaning What if the fractal goes on What if we monkeys actually are stupid😅 Man im venting Absolute art Thank u

@Mooseman327 Жыл бұрын

The concept and reality of sacrifice is crucial to understanding Life and the Universe. Everything dies and is reborn into something higher. It's a ladder, a Chain of Being. This goes for EVERYTHING. No exceptions.

@strayCATchillspot Жыл бұрын

🤔💗👑💗🔥 SPECIFICALLY SPECTACULAR🔥🎈🌟👀👀

@andrewkelley9405 Жыл бұрын

Great lecture. I have found myself *VERY* disappointed in the church since 2020. I know I should go back but I have no desire to attend a conventional church any more.

@angelbaby78 Жыл бұрын

I’m in the same boat and I have come to accept that there is nothing wrong with that. I will not allow myself to wallow in guilt over this.

@olgakarpushina492 Жыл бұрын

I share the sentiment, especially after the cowardly church closing policies, but as Peter said to Jesus, who else has the words of enernal life? Where else can we go?

@angelbaby78 Жыл бұрын

@@olgakarpushina492 I go once in a while for the Eucharist. I struggle with organized religion though.

@olgakarpushina492 Жыл бұрын

@@angelbaby78 that's the revolutionary thinking curse. We are only willing to accept the authority that is pure and not corrupt, but all authority is corrupt.

@charliecampbell6851 Жыл бұрын

@@olgakarpushina492God's authority is pure, and he wants us in communion with other believers. Go to church. You will be disappointed. Praise God.

@hankkuya4354 Жыл бұрын

We called it,” Enjoy the suck.” In my younger days while in the military. While collecting running water in the hands. You mustn’t grasp the water for it will just run through your fingers. But if you gently cusp your hands you will enough to drink, but it will overflow for others. Plans are just grocery lists of disappointments.

@jay3yogi Жыл бұрын

Imma share this

@behailumulugeta5062 6 ай бұрын

u have no Idea how u help my path/past. Am an 🇪🇹an Orthodox

@notloki3377 Жыл бұрын

it's said that woke culture is summed up by this paradox "you must understand me, you cannot understand me." perhaps this interpretation of the book of enoch is summed up in a parallel phrase.." you must reach heaven on earth, you can never reach heaven on earth."

@nuckygulliver9607 Жыл бұрын

woke is gnosticism in another guise. Look at how the woke satanists talk. they are just like teh gnostics. Tehy will flat out say the snake was right. God was a villain to gnostics. Woke is cultural marxism. Marxist critical thinking is to negative think about issues and discover reasons it can be rejected. Like the gnostics Marx said 'all we have to lose is our chains.'

@thecanadianmacadamian3018 Жыл бұрын

Benoittttt!

@TheGerogero Жыл бұрын

For my yoke is easy and my burden is light...

@chuggns 9 ай бұрын

JP on JRE!

@AetherialSatori Жыл бұрын

Perfectly illustrates the follies in my thought process

@Paul-ki8dg Жыл бұрын

A shortcoming is that I'm a sophomoric hack. Young, an art teacher looked at my work saying good technique, but what are you saying. An English teacher scolded me for being a neophyte new convert, making sure I knew what it is. Can parrots put what is said into their own words?

@gid3on Жыл бұрын

Since Christ is He by Whom all things were made, and the crucifixion marks the fullness of time, would it be fair to search for the actual creation of the world somehow embedded in the event of the crucifixion, as it were? I have a notion that these two events somehow align, but I can't substantiate my intuition on this...

@allywallace7798 Жыл бұрын

I'm always trying to share your videos with people but some of the symbolism goes over many people's heads. This video however seems to be exactly what I need to share that can actually be understood

@ethanb2554 Жыл бұрын

Typical Pageau to destroy the theme of the conference in his first talk: "This is idolatry!" 😅

@rabidL3M0NS 11 ай бұрын

10:36 didn’t expect you to quote DJ Khaled 😅

@mariog1490 Жыл бұрын

What an excellent talk, Jonathan. Always saw this, but thought you would never talk about it haha

@peepoclown1 Жыл бұрын

Darn it! I sent my reply, but the Live Chat ended before it could deliver. Anyways, I would implore you to investigate the metaphysics for yourself, but suffice it to say that the Christian East and West have historically understood the writings of St. Maximus in different, sometimes mutually-exclusive ways. Both the Palamite and Thomistic metaphysical traditions cite St. Maximus, but each perceives the Saint as making subtly different points. I haven’t mentioned the Franciscan/Scotistic school here, since that’s a whole can of worms in itself, but, even as an E.O., I reserve a certain fondness for it.

@mariog1490 Жыл бұрын

@@peepoclown1 I think we can distinguish the essence from the energies. But I would agree with Thomas that in the eschaton, there is the essence. I don’t think the East and West are bloated against one another.

@peepoclown1 Жыл бұрын

Proper to energeia, God can certainly be called “Pure Act.” You may be aware, though, that we identify a Divine hyperousia as well, and distinguish the two in varying ways. One criticism we might levy against Thomistic presuppositions is what seems to be its inability to make sense of “beyond-being,” conceptually. The ramifications of this spill into the epistemology of faith, such that, assuming these presuppositions, one must admit that knowledge of God is strictly impossible before the Resurrection; in this life, knowledge is only had about God, and it is only transmitted through a created medium, rather than the Divine-creature copresence that’s spoken about amongst the Eastern (and many ante-Augustinian Western) Fathers.

@peepoclown1 Жыл бұрын

@@mariog1490 I don’t think that the Eastern and Western traditions necessarily oppose one another either. Even Anselm of Canterbury, I would say, can be understood as perfectly coherent with the Eastern tradition. What I don’t think are reconcilable are the Palamite and Thomistic metaphysical presuppositions, though Palamite-Franciscan/Scotistic reconciliation isn’t beyond the realm of possibility (as I understand it, at least).

@mariog1490 Жыл бұрын

@@peepoclown1 I don’t think “beyond being” is impossible for the Thomist to understand. As Aquinas says, God is in no genus, even the genus of being. Since God escapes and is beyond knowing and unknowing, we can say, by analogia entis, God is being-itself and beyond being. Your presumptionalist critique is not the basis of Orthodoxy and is post-Kantian philosophy. It is in regards to a epistemological debate between the foundationalist vs the coherentists. Presuppositional criticism is levied by the coherence epistemology, which is false.

@jbarrjt Жыл бұрын

Is a transcript of this talk available?

@truthortreason9118 Жыл бұрын

Count no man happy until he is dead - Solon.

@VasilieStojanovski Жыл бұрын

Where can we find the whole lecture?

@user-sr7dt2rd9c Жыл бұрын

It's the whole lecture. Always has been 😁

@vision325 Жыл бұрын

Paradox 😊

@stevenschwartz765 Жыл бұрын

A sunset

@Sharki91 Жыл бұрын

Hi Jonathan! Serious question here. Your Example: You might give up working 15 hours a day to spend more time with kids… meaning you have 9 hours a day with kids already… …might you also consider sacrificing one hour of kid time in order to do extra 16 hours of work? How does that work?

@xinyorixahumba6307 Жыл бұрын

Maybe the point he's making is the John 15 verse which says," Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends."

@tensevo Жыл бұрын

tldw: you have to give up everything, to get everything

@hmkzosimaskrampis3185 Жыл бұрын

Jonathan, are you aware of the life of St Maximos the Hut-burner?

@hmkzosimaskrampis3185 Жыл бұрын

Philippians 2:5-7 American Standard Version 5 Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped...

@AmyMaris Жыл бұрын

We live in a monkey trap.

@SingularitySenses Жыл бұрын

Summarize this speech in 5 sentences or less:

@angrypixelhunter Жыл бұрын

It's that funny moment when christianity finds common ground with the stoics. The stoics did the same but in order to simply avoid suffering.

@matt6014 Жыл бұрын

Who else read, "My Most Anti-Semetic Talk". Lol

@stevemcgee99 Жыл бұрын

How do you give it up? How do you die on purpose?

@kamilb1729 Жыл бұрын

I wish youtube did 10x.

@spacemule1 Жыл бұрын

Please stop the coming up next...

@EL_394 Жыл бұрын

the garden was during the taurine age when we could sacrifice all that was bad in favor of the good.. only the flesh can distinguish between god the infinite wilderness and the garden as in Christs kingdom

@EL_394 Жыл бұрын

never trust peoples who put god before king.. both Moses and John Calvin trashed their host societies in favour of wandering the wilds

@_Dovar_ Жыл бұрын

I found symbols in the talk. Unsubscribed.

@hulking_presence Жыл бұрын

Let go of your wife and children? Yeah, right, this is evil. What in the actual fuck.

@YawnGod Жыл бұрын

The Flawless Argument: I have no reason to speak to someone whom I consider stupid, because they won't understand. And I have no reason to speak to someone smart, because they already know. Everything else is monkeys complaining. I should delete this comment out of principle.

@theskooge9965 Жыл бұрын

Incredibly disappointing.

@marmz1778 Жыл бұрын

Well, that was a disappointing talk... (Hehehe😏)

@IronKing66 Жыл бұрын

Lol, a mish-mash of blackpill and whitepill. "Everything sucks! You will always be dissapointed! ... and that's the POINT!" ... Greypilled, if you will.

@mingus445_gaming Жыл бұрын

get off 4chan bro

@uuubeut Жыл бұрын

Please save humanity from the Abrahamic mythologies 😱

@keithjohnsonYT Жыл бұрын

Can spoiled children of law enforcement and healthcare, trans the taking of the fruit into it being given? (…you know, God is dead.) The neighbor’s friend asked her, “What if he…” The neighbor (cutting her friend off) said, “He got no game.” They laughed..I cried…🎭 (There’s no place like home.) “{{{(((all good vibes)))}}}”🖕 ‘Wheel In The Sky’ - Journey (Swingers might touch heaven in ways I can’t imagine, but cheaters can go to hell.)

@keithjohnsonYT Жыл бұрын

@Ben Gets Better Christ is our better self abandoned. “The way, the truth, and the life…” (This is humiliating.) We are all ragamuffin before the lord.