Rip Bill Russell

He’s the 5th best center of all time

@@RetroNBA42 He's a goat lmao

@@RetroNBA42 no way u said this 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

He’s the second best behind kareem

The only thing he needed to put more effort in during his peak is free throws. If he could shoot normal 72% instead of 54%, he would have scores 2 pts per game more and drastically increase his efficiency. It would have lead to increase fg% as the defense would be scared to put as much contact in him for fear of fouling. At 54%ft, they played him as rough as possible because his ft was lower than his fg%. 72% ft Shaq would be contending Jordan for GOAT.

@@Homer-OJ-Simpson his defense wasn`t good either. He was mostly and didn`t have a good motor

@@tj5180 his defense was above average but yeah, it wasn’t elite. But it’s the free throws that prevented him from being goat discussion

Top 5 peak imo, but it just didn't last as long as it should have due to work ethic and injuries. Dude just needed to work like 70% of what Kobe did (I think if he went as hard as Kobe that would have led to injuries at his size) and he would have dominated for an extra 3-4 years.

@@tj5180 I know defensive win shares are not the most perfect but he lead league in DWS in 99/00 and was 4th his rookie year. He was 10-15 a few times in defensive win shares.

rumor is that Kobe would swim in painkillers after every game just to prove to shaq he was slacking

@@jungshin87 what 😭

@@jungshin87 lol. How true is that

@@tj5180 Oh it's damn true

Oh my fucking god.

@@stratosphere2323 how did he put up better numbers than Wilt?

@@stratosphere2323 oh, in the finals. I thought you meant just in general. Too bad Chamberlain was against the most dominant team of all time in the playoffs. Also Jordan was more dominant in the finals...

I farted.

Thank you! good to be back on the grind.

@@jonnyarnett And we are happy to watch more content...

Yeah the pace of play in the league slowed down a lot in the early 2000s so him averaging fewer points by a little wasn’t really him dropping off.

People act like he wasn’t in his prime during his later Orlando days Ethier or Early LA days (only the years he won rings..) and as a rockets fan that annoys me.

Agreed

Shaq's prime was from age 24 to age 30. Pretty standard stuff.

“Only” six-foot-three… 😅

Y'all think I could be close I'm 5'9 at 12 years old

@@-rio-. You finna be the next giannis bro

@@-rio-. how you can do. It. Drink water eat healthy exercise and sleep

I am 5'2 and however I tried to play like Vince Carter, I was impressed by The Answer more

I think with the exception of Bill Russell (elite until he was 35), Wilt (elite until he was 37), & Hakeem (elite until he was 34). No other centers were as effective long term. Mikan fell off at 31, Duncan at 30, Ewing/Robinson at 33, Mutumbo/Smits at 32,. In that regard Shaq playing at a very high level up until he was 33/34 is very impressive. But he certainly could have slowed down his decline from 2006 to 2011 and make himself more of an impactful player in his declining years. At best he could have played 1 to 2 more years. Like Moses Malone, Garnett, Dirk, and anyone else I forgot to mention who is relevant to the discussion.

I think when it comes to shaq everyone some how gets $hit fir brains. Every one also firgets how much punchment he use to take while un babied and unprotected unlike other greats mainly mj, who if u just passed and the air off ur body offended him he would get a foul. With the addmtion of all his comptetors they used to hack him foul him, and it was expected they wouldnt get calked for fouls. Shaqs first injury in where someone broke his hand, broke his hand he was called for a travel. Soooo he was getting malested and injured for 14 years. Yes maybe he could have been in the gym a little longer, practiced free thros more. But it wasnt all on him, the nba back then was more concerned with simping for mj, and other centers, and thezn dunkin and the spers to care for others. The lakers where getting beat down by refs for shaqs first 4 years, just to creat the narative that they won after struggle, and to clear the way for mjs bulls in the final. The nba and david stern knew the bulls chances with shaqs lakers r way worse than the jazz. They knew shaq isnt as easly contain as the mail man.

@@aakaaki1 Shaq got away with LOTS of offensive fouls. Some actually say he was the start of allowing offensive players to initiate far more contact on defenders. Today it's more normal -- bully ball by lower your shoulder and pushing defender or using off arm to push defender. Those weren't at all common in the 90's, except Shaq with the bully ball.

guess u never heard of Wilt he was the most domiant player not shaq

@@tj5180 Wilt actually played more with grace. He was huge and graceful. Shaq played with size and power. In part it's because they just didn't play as physical in the 60's, at least no how centers would bang in the post. Thinking Basketball did an episode on Wilt and he described how Wilt played very differently than Shaq.

Zion is like a 2 door hatchback Shaq.

@@joeyjo-joshabadu9636 Zion is like young Barkley body with Shawn Kemp athleticism.

@@Homer-OJ-Simpson Zion is actually quite a bit bigger than Chuckwagon. To quote the man: "[Zion] looks like me and Shaq had a baby"

It wasn't just his FTs. He was a lukewarm team defender. Sometimes he dialed it in (rookie year and 99-00 season) where he wanted to prove a point and other years he just coasted. He lagged behind the other elite Centers (Russell, Wilt, Kareem & Hakeem) as a shotblocking presence. Didn't always get back in transition and was exposed outside of the paint on defense. The Jazz made a mockery of his lazy defense in both 97 and 98 playoff meetings. .

You have the wrong list, I'll help you out. Greatest centers of all-time... 1. Kareem 2. Hakeem 3. Shaq 4. Moses 5. Wilt

@@heybro6105 everyones is subjective bro, no one is right or wrong, i do like your list tho 😂

@@heybro6105 Hakeem is the BEST best he did not have a GREATER career than Russell or wilt. There’s nothing to signify that as being true.

@@heybro6105 and Moses definitely is not over russel. Don’t be an idiot.

@@critanalysis9546 nah there’s absolutely right and wrong. If I said Yao Ming is a top 5 center ever, what could I say to justify that claim? Just saying it doesn’t make it true or unable to be critiqued. People have to be Abel to back up their opinions if they are gonna be rooted in facts.

W

The bigger misleading claim is Nash narrative about improving the Suns from 29 to 62 wins. He went to a team with a bunch of early 20's players that were about to break out, think multiple Wades. In the year before Nash, Amare Stoudamire was 21, Joe Johnson 22, Shawn Marion 25 plus also Barbosa was 21. Then they add Quentin Richardson as well who had scored 17ppg the year before at age 23. So much of that 33 win improvement is just from the young stars getting one year old. Further evdience is that in that season, Amare was statistically superior to Nash -- beat him in win shares, ws/48, VORP and PER and nearly tied in BPM. In addition, Shawn Marion also beat Nash in win shares, VORP and nearly tied in BPM and ws/48. People like to point out that Nash was so great that's why Suns were able to go from 29 wins to 62. But they ignore that he left the Mavs the the Mavs IMPROVED from 52 to 58 wins just showing you how these changes in wins are not always the best measure. The Lakers dropped 22 games without Shaq so their net effect is Shaq 41 (19 plus 22) and Nash 27 (33 minus 6). We need to be consistent with both. If we criticize Shaq's impact on the Heat because of Wade, than even more criticism is given to Nash's 33 win improvement given he may have been statistically as low as 3rd on his team in advance stats and his he had multiple players that were similar to Wade.

@@Homer-OJ-Simpson I think both seasons were overrated. I would've given the MVP that year to Dirk.

@@generationstats997 First Nash MPV, I have Shaq/Dirk fighting for 1 and 2 with Nash in 3rd. Second MPV season, Dirk/Lebron fighting for 1-2 and Nash in 3rd. So yeah, Nash in 3rd both years but he gets #1 because he was exciting -- plus a small not too athletic white guy is going to draw the voters. Without knowing the advance stats we know today, Shaq likely wins that first mvp over Dirk and Lebron gets 2nd mvp over Dirk.

@@Homer-OJ-Simpson PER and WS are very boxscore heavy stats so that explains why Amare and Shawn beat out Nash in it. However you can't undermine how the addition of Nash unlocked the Suns offense with his all time level playmaking and elevated it to all time heights. He's a worthy MVP in both '05 and '06 imo.

Kobe was the best player in the playoffs but finals shaq was always dominated. Kobe took over and played both ends, closed out many of those games. He was doing that against some of the best defenses like the spurs for example

@@tj5180 Shaq dominated period. Kobe dominated because like Curry his gravity pulled everyone in the paint allowing Kobe easier looks on the perimeter in the triangle. Even if I agreed with your logic, that’s like saying Lebron carried the Heat in 2011 through the first 3 rounds, but D-Wade dominated the Finals where it mattered most winning FMVP. Also it’s clear as day Shaq even in the Finals was always facing All Star level talent. Most of Kobe’s match ups were fringe role players. I’m

@Jeremiah shaq was 1A and Kobe was 1b. My point was that kobe played like the best player at times and took over. Shaq was the best player overall but kobe wasn't carried. That's my point

@@ericdupree8603 I said both of them dominated and shaq called kobe the best player in 2001. Shaq was the best player no doubt and kobe went against Iverson and Reggie miller also Jason kidd etc and faced great defenses. Shaq faced weak comp in the finals at his position a dikembe past his prime and who was the nets stating center? Rik smits was past his prime and had injuries. Antonio Davis and Dale left the team

@@tj5180 So Mutombo being the best defensive player back to back years at 34 is washed, Reggie Miller at 34 wasn’t? Lol Kobe in 2000 was definitely 2nd fiddle that entire playoff run. Also AI was not Kobe’s assignment it was Derrick Fisher/Ty Lue for most possessions picking up AI and he averaged 35 that series regardless. In any case Kobe did make a jump in 01 & in 02 but the guards in the West they faced were role players whether it’s the Spurs with Antonio Daniels to Avery Johnson to the Kings with Doug Christie. Again his match ups aren’t that impressive when Shaq is going against Duncan, KG, Robinson, Wallace, and Webber getting hacked all game, and still dropping big numbers. Okay

He was never an all timer on defense and didn't create for others at an all time great level either. I don't see it. For example, a guy like Giannis is on a similar level offensively and a different tier completely defensively.

@@benjaminan1183 the nba brought back zone defense to make the game harder for him... They had to shaq proof the hoops and have extra on hand because who knows what he was going to do.. He was as nimble and skilled around the basket as just about anyone on top of being the most imposing force I've seen in my lifetime.. He was absolutely that dude. To your points, he was a very good rim protector and rebounder. He was also an underrated and capable passer. If he shot a respectable percentage from the line he would've been the goat imo.

Lol did you watch the video? His MVP season he was second for DPOY while facing some of the toughest bigs in NBA history. He was averaging 4 assists per game that season which was plenty for a big who was also getting as many critical boards as he was and who could get high percentage shots at will. If you don’t think Shaq is up there in terms of greatest peaks, you just need to learn more about him I’m sorry.

@@ethanjobson3879 Being up there as one of greatest =/= arguably GOAT, I just don't agree with the latter, top 10 for sure though.

Season 2-11, during those 10 season he scored minimum of 26.2pts min 10.7 reb and min 55.7%fg for a 10 season average of 28.1pts 11.9reb 3.0ast 2.5blk 58%fg and 4 finals appearances with 3 championships.

I have great news for you, Koney Morgan: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bNJ0jZOYnq7TgKs.html&ab_channel=JonnyArnett

i love how people act like he was washed up in Miami. he was still a friggin monster!!

@@jungshin87 he only had one good season which was in 05 but not nearly as dominant as he was in LA

👌

No the rift between them wouldn’t go past 2004, don’t let Kobe lie to you. Because Kobe’s mentality of wanting to prove his own individual greatness, Kobe’s ego at some point would’ve forced the Lakers organization to trade Shaq or he doesn’t opt in to his extension. He’s a competitor on the court, both to his adversaries and teammates, and its also a double edged sword. It’s a miracle they lasted 8 years

Other Players like Hakeem Olajuwon and Kobe Bryant should have gotten another MVP or Two.

. . . I'm assuming you just forgot about Kareem, yeah?

@@greywolf2155 eeee, kind of 😅, gotta admit being biased , Spurs fan here :P

@@realsciencerhythm I'm a Sonics fan, who puts Gary Payton in my Top 5 point guards of all time no matter what anyone says

@@greywolf2155 not a REAL fan I'd say :P come on now, where's your support for your own local heroes? 😉That being said - if I was neutral and therefore truly objective - I'd put Kareem in my top 5 hands down 😏 but I AM NOT! Wanna fight about it? 😜

@@realsciencerhythm ooh fiesty 😂

Except now, where zone defense is allowed which mitigate iso scoring, longer shots are taken lessening his rebounds and blocks, and on top of that stars play less minutes.

@@benjaminan1183 Top stars play less minutes because now they do everything. That's why 28pts 8 reb 8ast averages are a dime dozen while before on the greats did that. You have westbrook averaging triple doubles for several years straight and others getting close. The game is far better for individual stats today than it was in the 90's.

@@benjaminan1183 All true but this is also a FAR easier era for someone like Shaq, a dominant center with a good passing IQ. He would probably average 6+ assists playing today and he'd score more too because it's more dangerous to double a guy when he can kick out to a teammate on the 3pt line

@Fries That's accurate, by the standards of both today and the 80s the mid 2000s Suns would be a slow team, the early 2000s were absurdly slow. With that said, if that exact same team played today they would presumably shoot far more 3s and adjust with the rest of the league to be atleast an average paced team

@Fries Yes, Individual stats today are far easier to get. In regards to Suns 04-05 pace, it was 95.9 per 48min and league average then was 90.9. League average this past season was 98.82 since 2017, it's been around 100. So yes, *04-05 Suns pace is below league average pace since 2015-2016.*

If he had moves work ethic, he wouldn’t be shaq.

I agree.

@@TheIcemanthomas what?

Shaq wasn`t a leader either and had habits of being selfish during his days with the magic and when he went to the lakers also being out of shape

@Fries yeah its really close in those 7-11 spots those can switch very easily

Kareem, Russell, hakeem and shaq

@@tj5180 Russell , Kareem, Wilt Shaq

@@RageManRegg no Hakeem ?

@@tj5180 right after Shaq

Recently I watched game 1 and its clear what Pistons tried and succeeded in doing. They didnt help on Shaq. Ben Wallace did pretty good job of slowing him down and he had noone to kick it out to. Kobe was frustrated and very impatient, he started jacking up stupid shots and they ended up losing in 5.

@@theodoranfilov5101 Yes, that was also an aging even more out of weight shaq. But that was a good strategy. The Lakers were old and Kobe was still a bit immature (even at age 25), Malone was hurt, and Payton was too slow. Shaq played very well but for not being double team much, Wallace did a great job and not letting Shaq go off for 35pts 15reb like he did prevoius 3 finals but instead was 27pt 11reb wiht only 1.6ast . Kobe was flustered and averaged only 22.6pts 4.4ast 38%fg. Lakers may have won if kobe could play like Kobe and if Malone was healthy. But an injured Malone and subpar play from Kobe lead to a route. Perhaps the biggest finals shock I've seen since I started watching in 1990 other than the 73 win Warriors losing.

@@theodoranfilov5101 - I would also like to add that Karl Malone was the glue to that team. His injury third way through the season derailed their chances so basically he played hobble throughout and missed the final game 5 of that DET series. Plus, Detroit knew Kobe wanted to be That guy so Kudos to Detroit. That's my more memorable of chips, behind Dirk's 2011 and Spurs 2014 chip.

@@jlui21 add Hakeem in 95 when he beat Robinson and Shaq and we have a deal 😀

@@theodoranfilov5101 The Pistons were really smart at how they handled Shaq. They basically forced him to run. They knew that man was in no shape to handle a 7 game series of track and field. Kobe explained it in the interview him and Shaq had together. Big Ben did a good job on him also ... considering it is Shaq (remember that block?). Dude was like a body builder that just so happened to play basketball really well.

Yes also Top 5 in my book: Kareem, Bill, Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq

@@vincealexander9253 it’s unquestionable that’s the top 5, there’s not even a debate🤣

hm...I think people don't realize how humans work. shaq shooting 70% would be amazing. But I don't think him shooting 50% Was because he didn't work at it. To me the only thing would be his physique and conditioning. But even then there's a cap.

If he was a 75% ft shooter they wouldn’t have fouled him as much with the hack a shaq.

He only had 1 MVP because voters were stupid. He 100% deserved it over AI that year.