The problem begins when we treat children as our personal possessions rather than as young people, invited here by us, who are unfamiliar with our ways and our world.

Isolation is traumatic. Full Stop.

“Which I think might be taken out of context” lmao every time

My experience with my three children has come to be that I (and my partner, their mother) need to be the person I want our children to become. That is very, very hard at times and requires a massive amount of patience from me as well a huge amount of introspection on my part, how I react in all sorts of situations, positive as well as negative. Children, especially in their earlier years of maybe 6/7/8, copy SO much of their parents (at least mine do!) it is absolutely unbelievable (at least I found!). I am also increasingly grateful for my children because they do make me think about so much and help me focus on the important issues in my life.

As an adult suffering the impact of complex childhood trauma, Jordans messages dont land well at all. There is a lot of anger and control, and darkness in him. I respect his psychological advice on many things, but somewhere here he misses something. Also, i am not sure most parents are being as attuned as you so hope, so i would ask you, if you get stuck, do you pick Jordans approach or Gabors?

we are not different. we are human beings with the same need. attachments trumps all, and if the human child gets the message that if he/she cant expess himself/herself, authenticity will go.

Gabor Maté is much more mature & on higher philosophical level - holistic Systems thinker. Western countries are individualistic/selfish, vs the social aspect of the Non-West which gives more trust/safety & less psychological rejection. Jordan had not grown up beyond the Western limitations & stubbornly criticises the Socialist systems as he doesn't understand them.

I have attained unconditional love with my babies and grandbabies. Not one never ever cross word through whole life. I can't get upset, it's not in me, no matter the storm around me. I do not allow any negative thoughts with myself. I monitor it and watch my thoughts closely. I'm automatic about it now. I am authentic and can change my path very quickly, if required. I follow my dreams and attain them and still am It is the outside external stress put on youngsters. Colonial, upstairs downstairs mentality. Don't measure up. Luckily my daughter and I have mentored the kids through. Your not good enough they said at school and collage. Broke her spirit. She is now in her second year at University. Follow your dreams, I said. Yahoowee. I am blessed.

You're making a very good point here which resonates. Actually, you're making many points. Thanks for sharing your view, Josh. I think that there are no perfect parents. We see ourselves in the behaviours of our kids... especially in those behaviours that trigger us most. Or, a more accurate observation might be that some core beliefs are challenged by some of their behaviours. And... by going though may of the comments on this video the following pops up in my mind: "You will always find the evidence for what you choose to believe" (which is also valid for me :P)

I agree, emotional well being fir ourself first. Then we can be present. Before I realized this concept I would excape being present and just wait for emotions and behavior to pass but being present helps in also learning to move through the emotions and not end up burying them for an adult crisis later in life.

I love the work on Jordan Peterson however I have heard him use certain discipline tactics to use with kids that do not work. A parent is supposed to guide the child on regulating their emotions, not expecting them to magically know how to do it. In this instance I think Gabor is correct

Thank you, i like your take on things and that you didn’t pine them against each other. I would love to see them interact directly. I find both of them highly reasonable and intelligent and could figure out some great balance between each other.

The role of the parent/carer is to provide containment, confirmation and security. This allows the child to define their boundaries which form the very foundation of development.

Show images of the interesting debate between JP and GM on social media , their posts if even not towards each other, the last video of GM talking on the subject that I have seen was 2 years old , is this a 2 years old reupload ? Would be better to have some images otherwise this is a podcast not a video

Could it be possible to explain to the child “it’s ok that you are angry, but you can’t behave like this” Or would that be too complex an idea for them to understand? My thinking being that you want them to process their emotion in the moment, but not hold on to it for the rest of the day, or to express it in an antisocial way.

What is that at 2:58 on the left side.

Children who are isolated outside an environment of deep love and acceptance will naturally feel the rejection but there is a balance between an attitude of… you can do no wrong and there are no consequences, in other words parents will accept any behavior the child dishes out with tolerance. This does not prepare the children for the real world. Teaching kids that some behavior is not acceptable and that they are not pleasant to have around when they behave that way, teaches kids how to behave in society. Saying I don’t want you around when you behave badly, is not saying I do not love you. It is saying that there is reciprocal respect required between people, even between parent and child.

We have to remember that GM talks the talk but didn't walk the walk. He was absent with his children and workaholic whereas JP didn't. which is why JP’s kids are involved with his work today and they are a united family. GM’s wife said she should have left him than… From what I can see JP’s parenting did work for them. It's a combination of modelling regulation giving time out for antisocial disruptive behaviour as well as plenty of love and presence. I am a mother of two teens and our kids got all the above and it worked well.

What happens to the development of a young child when they're "punished" for so called acting out, but it's actually a reaction to the parents rage/anger who is not subject to the same rules or consequences? That has to result in some sort of mind fuck to the child. Maybe it shouldn't even be about "disciplining" the child but teaching and guiding them? Personally GM makes a lot more sense than JP. JP seems to hold a lot of rage and anger and doesn't seem to want to understand a different context or perspective of many issues. You hear it a lot in his speeches - I'm a Clinical Psychologist, statistical correlation is the truth, therefore, I'm right you're wrong.

The ‘time out’ method is perfect for the child that is playing up to the audience. Take the audience away and they almost instantly get out of their ‘looped’ behaviour. Then it’s possible to talk and explain things to them. The problem comes when the parent (often the female) just tries to reason with them instead of breaking the ‘looped behaviour first’.

Can someone explain how do you reason with a 2 year old acting out? According to JP or GM? i do not think any of them has the answer to that.

Gabor Maté is not a Psychologist, he is a Physician or MD.

Gabo Mate was saying, what you are trying to say, to be open to fell and responding to the child need etc

The most important job in the world is for responsible parents to raise children to be assets to society….a tall order for those who take it on.

Jeez you waffle. How about actually addressing the point you are trying to make! This is youtube, not some college lecture. Don't lead up to your point, state it, explain it, conclude it. Video done. You're welcome.

In my opinion, Mate and Petersen just have different approaches on how to raise children properly. Matè's approach is more passive while Petersen's is more active. One is not better than the other. It is the discerning parent who can tell which approach works best for each of his/her children and dispense it appropriately.

For a child who observes a parent modelling emotional regulation, doesn't necessarily understand HOW it's done. We need to teach explicit skills. Both cognitive and somatic techniques can be used. Some kids might use punching a pillow (to safely diffuse anger) some might prefer applying thoughts to their predicament (I'm angry my toy broke but I have other toys I like better so it's not so bad) My point is, there are explicit tools used in the concept of emotional regulation and they need to be taught explicitly with patience and repetition .

off subject but looks like orbs on the left of this guy wow

Old video I know. But had to stop before getting to the end to point out JP is the only phycologist out of the two of them l. Gabor is a physician, a medical doctor, a GP as we call them in UK - general practitioner of medicine. This is where I feel I have to take anything Gabor says with a pinch of salt as a lot of what he says is conjecture and anecdotal, and seemingly not based on empirical scientific methods. That's not to say Gabor is wrong or giving bad advice just that to me it seems less grounded in science and more in gut intuition and personal experience - which often leads to a lack of objectivity. I also don't like the way Gabor goes out of his way to criticize JP and attack him because he doesn't like to be compared to him and seemingly takes it as an insult. Whereas JP to my knowledge hasn't even really commented on Gabor. Gabor's advice and philosophy seem grounded in the idea of a shared trauma that the world is suffering from, and he might have a point... But that's just the reality of existence. Trying to think you'll ever overcome that is a childish pipe dream - life is brutal even when it goes well. JP offers advice on how to cope with that Gabor just seems to try and paint a pretty picture of how we could be if we lived in a fairytale.

A psychologist isn’t a coach, people have to find there own doors not be indicated what door to take

Child rearing is difficult and complex. There is no one size fits all and good parenting adapts to the child(s) as an individual. I cant use the type of discipline Gabre Mate promotes for everything and the same for Jordan Peterson. Emontions are natural, however nobody wants to be around someone who has very little control over their emotions and acts on impulse. Men and women, boys and girls need emotional discipline in order to achieve greatness. It doesnt mean you cant cry but after your done you pick yourself up and keep it moving because the reality is emotions are fleeting.

Fully agree. They’re talking past each other. I’ve read “The Myth of Normal” and “12 Rules for Life,” and I see a lot of value in both. In fact, they may be looking at the similar things, but they’re really doing so from different angles. Mate is looking at life through the lens of trauma, while Peterson assumes that we are well-balanced, self-regulated adults who have worked through our trauma. This may be an oversight on his part, but it’s an important distinction nonetheless.

I think it is very accurately said!

Ha, so Gabor advocates that a child raging in a supermarket should be an acceptable emotion, but Peterson feeling rage is unacceptable.

I think JP has been misrepresented again.

You just bare the argument against ANY advice, self help book or success guru. There's no "one way to fix all", but it's good to listen and learn to all points of view to educate yourself, apply knowledge and become wiser.. And of course use your own instincts!

Why are there so many white little orbs around you? Are they reflections from outside or?

dr. Gabor Mate is not a psychologist. He is a medical doctor. He is not trained as a psychiatrist not is he a psychologist pr other mental health trained professional.

Thankyou. Im concerned that Gabor maybe trying to put people off Jordan . But I would encourage everyone to read and listen to both and then listen to your own gut instincts for thr final opinion

1) So JP sometimes should sit down himself till he calms down. Ok, he is usually sitting during talkshows. 2) I do not believe you have to undersand literally what he said about an angry child. Something is just missing from this over citited sentence of him.

Hey bud Peterson’s takes on disciplining a child is terrible bud. In all contexts. Isolating. Never. Works. (Assuming there is no diagnosed condition of the child)

It seems to me that gabor has something against Jordan. His criticism is valid and there may be something to it but I've seen gabor refer to Jordans fans as acolytes, and generalising that Jordan and his fans have a lot of repressed rage. These comments put me off gabor quite a lot which is a shame. Also jordan balanced being a professor at top level universities and a clinical psychologist with also being a present father and husband. While gabor was not present for his children (which he openly admits to). Jordans spouse love him deeply and are all well balanced individuals. The two should have a debate about it

Jordan Peterson is being taken out of context, most likely on purpose.

Gabor is not a Psychologist nor psychiatrist. Having had four children, a daughter and a three sons 12 months apart ( premature twins), I have to say Gabor’s methods sound magical, but are not practical. Also, it is good for children to learn to reflect and learn self control with their desires and emotions. It would be nice if the world was a self centric place, but it’s not. Better for a child to experience the disappointment when young then when an adult.

Let’s see.. Dr Peterson explains precise situation with his son Julian. They have very strong family bond and Julian loves his father. Dr. Mate was never there for his own children and his sons were full of rage because their father was never there for them. When Daniel started with his father project “HELLO AGAIN”, his brother Aaron reacted with dose of sarcasm. So yeah, Dr Mate has definitley more credibility. Nope.

I sensed something wrong about Gabor before even paying much attention to him dissing Jordan in regards to raising 2-year-olds. Now I assume Gabor's now multiple attacks on Jordan is largely based on envy of fame, age-related dementia, and probably then some. I feel like he's trying to make just about everybody out to be poor helpless victims, including even Jordan Peterson out of all people. It's ridiculous. I bought Gabor's "Wisdom of trauma" kit about 2 years ago for about 160 US$ and felt something was wrong but couldn't put it in words. Now I get it. I was being coddled like a 2-year-old, but I'm a grown ass man (31 now). My grandparents didn't even talk to me like that when I was that age, so of course I felt offended, like I was being attacked, by Gabor and his guests a lot of who were fucking pig-armed goblins. Jordan on the other hand, who I became well aquainted with fall 2021, has been like a universal teacher, principle, that I've waited for ever since I was 13, going through hell at school and to some extent at home. For Gabor to diss him on such loose grounds, I find both upsetting and laughable. I ain't heard any response about this from Jordan yet. Perhaps it's beneath him, he sure doesn't need to reply. But now that Gabor started the fight, Jordan's well warranted in a response. He sure would keep it civil. And also, Jordan was a whole lot more present with his kids growing up than Gabor was, and as of now, Jordan's adult children are much more happy with him as a father than Gabor's kids are. Gabor better take a look at himself first.

Gabor isn't a psychologist

Meh. One child required the Peterson way. One child required the Gabor way. They both turned out happy successful persons. Apples and Oranges. Both are delicious. Know your child. Then stick to a plan and strategy. I have to say though I incorporated more Peterson into my Gabor child then the other way around. Just facts.