The biggest problem with sonic forces is that the game just plays itself. They were too afraid of making something that just didn’t play well so they made a lot of the game automated segments

I will never forget when they announced a trailer that showed the sillouette of a new playable character without even hinting that it was a customizeable avatar, so people were legit worried that it was the sillouette of Bubsy. Good times.

My biggest issue with the story is that 90% of it is told by talking heads on the map screen. The dialogue tells this story of huge battles and an apocalyptic takeover of the world by Eggman, if only we had a VISUAL MEDIUM TO REPRESENT THESE THINGS.

Knuckles getting 80% of his army wiped out by attacking with everyone on a whim is hilarious.

I think the biggest sin a game can commit is being boring to play... that is Sonic Forces. It "works" but it feels bland and lifeless gameplay-wise, it just makes you look back to the past games and make you think what we lost along the way.

I think the reason people associate the term "Meta Era" with "bad" is because many of us are just sick to death of meta-ness in pop culture generally. Every story these days seems to come with its own riff track. They're constantly winking at the camera going "Isn't this stupid? See, we know we're stupid. We're making fun of our own stupidity and that means we're cool." I think what people miss from 2000's media is it's earnestness. We're tired of irony, bring sincerity back, even if its cheesy.

Holy crap it does NOT feel like it's been 5 years since this came out

What I always found remarkable about the custom character creator is that I don't think anyone was actually able to actually recreate their characters, the possibility space of the editor just didn't overlap with the sorts of characters people were making up.

"sonic forces me to sit through 3 hours of boredom with little to no actual impact" is a pretty fitting description for this game ngl

I think the funniest part about this game is when i went to buy sonic forces at gamestop, they gave me the pre-order package for free because nobody pre-ordered the game

It's kind of funny that this is the second time the writers didn't understand the difference between time travel and being from a different dimension. See Blaze the Cat's appearance in 06.

The fact that we’re literally counting how many seconds we get to play the game per level is astounding

I'm surprised you didn't talk about how characters were treated in this game. Tails was at his WORST in Forces. In this game, he hangs out with Classic Sonic, cowers in front of the Egg Pawns and Chaos, can't even repair Omega, doesn't even use his Tornado and _"True dat"._ I could pretty much say the same thing with Sonic, Silver and Knux, but I don't feel like ranting about it, so rant over. Edit: Turns out J talked about Tails cowering in front of Chaos 0 at 29:56. Sorry, my bad.

my biggest problem was that it promised so much and delivered so little 😭

“Do I have regrets?…I have a few!!!!” Sounds like a villain monologue 😂

The biggest issue/ wasted potential (besides, you know, the whole game) was the execution of Infinite's powers/character. I remember a little while after the game's release there was an AMA one of the writers of the game (If i find the link I'll link it in an update) where they [the writers] listed a few concepts they wanted to try but were denied either because Sonic team didn't like it or resources. 1) "Sonic's Torture & the Fake Sonic" It's mentioned in game and never touched upon. If I remember correctly the original idea was that Sonic would be "tortured" mentally. Infinite would put Sonic in different illusions making him believe he'd escape only to find out it was just an illusion, breaking Sonic's confidence. These illusions would be used as the tutorial stage. Inifinte's constant mentioning of 'data' is because he was using data collected from Sonic's reactions to different scenarios in order to create a fake sonic that would infiltrate the rebellion and HQ so that eggman could snuff them out for good. The fake Sonic would indeed do this and the invasion on the HQ would occur however mid battle Inifinte would be distracted by Silver and the illusion would go wrong, classic Sonic would show up through a portal and a boss fight would ensue against the fake sonic or "Sonic.exe" (Yes they wanted to canonize SONIC.EXE, they thought it'd be a nice reference to the 'Fun is Inifinite' screen where the concept of sonic.exe came from and a nod the fandom would get) The reason this was shot down was because Sonic Team said that "Sonics not allowed to be sad or be shown as the bad guy" also they didn't like the idea of referencing sonic.exe 2) "Tails and Classic Sonic" After the Sonic.exe fight Tails has a sort of mental break, "If they can't trust Sonic, who can they trust?". This is why when Chaos shows up Tals is not mentally in a place where he could fight, So classic sonic shows up to save Tails and that gives him hope, classic is from a diffferent dimention he finds out and is therefor guaranteed not an illusion so they can trust him until Tails can create a device that can determine what's an illusion and whats not. This idea was scrapped because the Sonic.exe fight was denied 3) "The Avatar's Original Role" Leading up to forces there were a lot and I mean a LOT of theories that the playable character was somehow involved in Infinite's backstory, in the AMA this was confirmed a part of the original concept. Again, if i remember correctly, the custom character was originally planned to be a childhood friend of Zero (Infinite's original name before it was changed to just be inifinte) and the whole game is trying to save their friend after their encounter with Inifinite, as shown in game. Because of this encounter they join the main cast and knuckles sends the avatar and the Chaotics to go investigate Infinite's origins. after a few levels the custom hero would find a computer with information on the phantom ruby as well as the location of the real sonic. The avatar would release sonic remotely and run to try and join him but is stopped by the Real Metal Sonic and a boss fight occurs. Meanwhile the real sonic escapes and the boss fight with Zavoc happens. Later the two would meet up and arrive at resistance HQ only to witness the tail end of Infinite's invasion. The two would split up Sonic saving silver and the custom hero finding tails to tell them about what they've learned about the phantom ruby. The avatar would learn about the fake sonic and that even tails doesn't trust sonic at this point because of what just happened. This would lead to Sonic and the avatar's close relationship because they are currently the only ones who know the truth. Scrapped due to crunch time and other issues that Sonic Team had with Sonic and Tails portrayals 4) Misc Cuts due to crunch/budget/other obvious reasons Sonic and shadow would have a moment where the two discuss being confused for illlusions In the cutscene where infinite drops the sun Metal Sonic would Challenge Infinite due to it being jealous Inifinte beat sonic and if he kills him Metal would never get the chance to do it, this stalls long enough for the heroes to stop the Sun illusion Super Sonic was going to be in the game, originally the Sun illusion was powered by the seven chaos emerald and while Inifinte was distracted the player would run to collect them to stop the illusion Avatar would get their own unique "super" form by combining all the playable wisps It was mentioned once that maybe the phantom ruby was a shard of solaris' core and infinite would actually be zero possed by mephiles but that was more a joke than anything.

Sonic Forces is such an 'appropriate' finale of the Colors/Meta era. A misguided one-size-fits-all title trying to please every Sonic fan under the Sun with pieces from current and previous eras. I remember one of the higher-ups at Sonic Team stating pre-release that the game will have "the tone of the Adventure games"; that goes to show how out of touch they were. Frontiers looks like it's heading in a different direction from the desperate Forces (I hope it turns out good). Thanks for the retrospective, J. It was awesome teaming for the GBA games.

The most criminal thing about this game was wasting infinite he had so much potential as a main villain of the story or making him the final boss where he could of have infinite power giving super sonic a hard time but at the end they made him weak.

The fact that this video is basically as long as the game itself is shocking

I love that unleashed and Black Knight are finally seen as decent games. Because I loved both of them, much more than any recent 3D sonic game

One of the big problems I had about Forces is that all Sonic's friends were pretty much useless the entire 6 months Sonic was gone! Almost all of them are just as fast and strong if not stronger than Sonic and none of them could handle anything until Sonic came back!? Out of the times I played Sonic games, I thought that it was completely insane that no one could do anything for so long...

The amusing (and sad) thing is that the guys behind the Reimagined mod show more care and love to Forces than the actual devs did.

14:38, One of the worst things about this stage is that the enemies and Wisp capsules at the beginning are positioned like groups of bowling pins. It's almost as if the designers knew how lazy the level design was.

One of my favorite reviewers played this and made his avatar another sonic, so the forces of eggman were defeated by the combined forces of Sonic, Sonic, and Sonic. Probably the funniest way to play this imo.

I can't believe you're finally at the end of this series. I've been here since the beginning of the Sonic Retrospective, and it feels like a dream now that you reached Forces. Godspeed to you, the rest videos and the Frontiers video!

They should’ve put the reveal that Sonic was still alive closer towards the final act, and they should’ve kept Classic out of the story altogether. Tails being traumatized by witnessing his best friend get beaten to death in front of him should’ve been shown differently. Shadow should’ve taken a main role in the story, Silver should’ve been utilized more, and the levels should’ve been longer with more variations on how you were supposed to complete them, ie: you need to find x number of data chips before completing the level, you need to rescue Charmy from a prisoner transport, or you need to secure supplies from one of Eggman’s trains.

I think one of the things that pulled the story down so far was the fact that they took a very serious concept and treated it like a joke. On paper, 'Eggman defeated Sonic and took over the world' sounds like a concept that could make an amazing story. Everyone is exhausted from the constant fighting, the world at large is terrified of Infinite and what he can do, some people are trying to stay optimistic while others are close to giving up completely, and Tails especially is just not himself after seeing what he thinks was his brother's death. So many ways to show the impact that a war can have on so many different kinds of people. And although the torture line was only in the English script and should thus be taken with a grain of salt, Sonic was still kept in a small cell (possibly solitary confinement, although I don't know if that's only in English either) for 6 months straight, chained up and unable to run. He should _definitely_ have been at least a little mentally affected. What we got instead was a story that was almost no different in tone from Colors and Lost World, where (especially in Colors) the stakes were _much_ lower and the fight was over much sooner. Nobody acted any differently than before (at least in a way that makes sense for the situation), and the entire game was filled with jokes and underplayed emotions. It didn't feel like 6 months had passed in the slightest. Tails was surprised by sandy Green Hill, almost nobody knew Infinite's name, and nobody even had any sort of suspicion that the villains they were fighting were illusions. Based on everyone's behavior, it felt like the 'war' had only been going on for maybe two weeks at most. It's partially due to SEGA's mandates regarding characterization, but also just the fact that Pontac and Graff seem to be unable to write a Sonic game that takes itself seriously, that really hindered the story here. If we're talking about Sonic games with darker stories, there are so many that would be way above Forces on the list, but if we're talking about Sonic games with darker stories on a conceptual level it'd be way higher up. Heck, I'd say Adventure 1, Secret Rings, and Unleashed are already way darker in their execution than Forces, despite technically having much lighter concepts. If we'd had Forces' concept with the tonal writing of SA2 we'd have had a much different game. Honestly, I think the best way to describe Forces is to simply call it a collection of missed opportunities. Fans wanted a more serious Sonic game, but SEGA (and by extension the writers) interpreted that as 'we want a game with a darker premise', not 'we want a game that actually takes itself seriously'. It's honestly a shame, because Ian Flynn, who also wrote Frontiers, wrote a _very_ dark storyline in the IDW comics with the Metal Virus arc, and that took itself plenty serious while still having at least a few light-hearted moments. This shows that even with SEGA's current mandates, a dark storyline is very much possible in the games (which the IDW comics are canon to, given Sonic's mention of Tangle in Frontiers). I myself haven't played Frontiers yet (currently waiting to get paid so I can afford both it and a ps4 since the only console I have is a wii and the computer is so old that it can't even handle Steam's homepage) and I'm trying to avoid spoilers as much as possible, so I don't know exactly how dark Frontiers gets, but from what my friends in a Discord server have said, it's a much better story than the last few games have been. I'm hopeful now, since the current writer actually knows who Sonic is and why people like him (unlike the previous writers, who literally had to look stuff up on wikipedia to get a feel for the series). Welp, this comment kinda got away from me, but this is pretty much my thoughts for why Forces failed in the story department.

I find it commendable that it only took one person to define an entire decade and everyone else just went with it

The 2010s era can be also known as the self-deprecation era, an era where the people running Sonic had mocked themselves over and over again because the series was such in a depressing and horrible state of affairs. They even had Arin Hanson, who didn’t like Sonic become their ambassador. Sonic Team really spent 3 years developing a brand new engine for Forces and spent only one year of actual development on the game itself. You can’t make this stuff up.

The still images of Sonic failing to land a hit on Merlina is somehow better than the fully animated scene of Sonic getting beaten up by his fake enemies

My biggest complaint about forces wasnt about the level design or art or stuff like that, it was that they should've let us decide what part of the world to start taking eggman down in and go from there. The hub world is literally a map of the earth and they wasted it Also the rest of the game a so many issues I just thought of this one

the fact that so many of my fav sonic tubers i'd grown up with stopped after this game i think is what made me the most sad, a lot of the friends i made dropped the series too..heck i even left for a bit & got into anime. cuz we all just remember being soooo hyped and then ._. the dialog, the bad lighting, cartoony character models, odd songs (yet still catchy & pretty good ig), boring level design, plot,, almost everything tbh

One of my personal least favorite games period. What 06 was to functionality, Forces is to creativity and core design. The game plays itself for half of its actual playtime and for the little amount that you do have control over, it's either basic quick step/rail switching segments or basic 2d segments and it basically has to be like this because the physics and controls are just terrible otherwise. Boost to win has never been true until this game. The inclusion of Classic Sonic was super shoe horned in. It does almost nothing interesting with its locations and level design with the only aesthetic highlight being Metropolis. The way the rogues gallery was used borders on false advertising with most of them not having any real impact on the story or even gameplay. Making an avatar is fun by itself...but that's not really anything special compared to other games with character creators. The game is easy to play through which is why I think people give this game slack, calling it "average" but that's not a good thing. It's not average it's just not actively frustrating. This game just feels empty in so many ways and that's the worst thing a game can be to me.

Forces could of been the SATAM story the franchise needed. A darker take on the franchise while still keeping the elements that made Sonic who he is. Instead, we just basically gotten more of the same from Generations and Lost World where the story is practically non-existent and characters are act like headless chickens without Sonic carrying the victory for them.

At long last we reach the end of this retrospective, ive watched along with this series since day one and it's grown along side me. I'm excited to see what you do next, maybe a Mario 3d platformer retrospective series after frontiers and a well deserved break

Having a game that is just dull and plain is the worst type of game .This is why I think sonic forces is the 2nd worst game in the franchise just falling short of sonic boom rise of lyric.Also I'm so annoyed how they treat some characters as a joke like silver.Silver should beat infinite if sonic could.And tails being scared of chaos 0 wtf?

Gotta love Infinite, the dude has the power to create illusions of anything to fight against Sonic and his choices for digital minions are: a robot that Eggman probably could make an army of himself through spear parts, the weakest version of Chaos that potentially can’t evolve, the bastard child of Bowser and Momotaros, and a copy of somebody that has communication with the resistance that could be a double spy for him but the thought of that never even crosses his mind. He constantly just leaves when he has the advantage over situations, and he just seems like a hollow caricature of a much better written character His backstory is *weak* sauce as well

i think the biggest thing for me was that this game released a week or so after super mario odyssey, probably the 2nd biggest game to release that year. i hate being a console war nerd but considering both games were in development for around the same time (4-5 years) it feels like night and day seeing mario thrive while watching sonic fumble

I got into Sonic in 2017 because Mania blew me away as a game, but it was actually the baffling mediocrity of Forces that kept me hooked to the fandom. Thank you for reminding me of how utterly embarrassing Sonic Force's existence was, not just compared to its competitors and sister game that year, but also just for the entire franchise - that perspective on the wait wasn't one I had before. It made me remember why I love to hate it so much.

Sonic Forces released right on my birthday so when I woke up to see a shiny new sonic game on my bedside table I at first thought "WOW THIS IS THE BEST BIRTHDAY GIFT EVER" so I pop it into my switch and... even 8-year old me thought the game was shit

I absolutely loved the Create a Character and it feels like they put a lot of effort into making that fun, but were afraid to expand it to where it deserves to be spending more time with both Sonics that don't use the new mechanics

I’ve waited years for this video

Sonic Forces hurt the franchise so hard that SEGA had to stop and think before making frontiers.

Just to address the Infinite thing, I think what's actually going on with him is that he might be a cyborg or in some way augmented by Eggman's tech. This would rectify the discrepancy, because then he could have been a normal Jackal first, but still be built by Eggman afterwards.

You could say sonic really forced it.

Forces, to me at least, always felt like a conglomeration of ideas coming out severely undercooked in the end. Sole parts were alright to me, music in Sonic games is always at least fun, but that’s that. Congrats on J for getting back to where this retrospective started, to say we’ve all been waiting on this video for a while is an understatement…

25:46 “i didnt feel like animating this, heres some text on a black background. the game comes out tomorrow.”

Also fun fact: in the infinite snake bossfight. When you need to homing attack the clones , just boost to the side and you might get a seizure inducing effect as an award

People argue between 06 and Forces on the worst 3D Sonic game and honestly the biggest difference feels like the player gets to laugh at 06 while Forces laughs at the player.

The saddest part was that infinite was kind of a cool villain until episode shadow came out.

The problem with mods that enhance specific things like classic/modern sonic controls, is that unfortunately, the game is designed around the fact that they're trash. That means that you might get a mod that enhances Classic sonic, but it makes him unable to do something that was originally envisioned to be done with a slow, momentumless Sonic during the stage. It's really infuriating, ngl

gotta give this guy props for subtitling the entire vid. great work 👍

Forces: "You could not live with my own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me."

“That was just a bunch of cheap walk cycles!”

I can't believe the retrospective is finally done (kinda). I've been following this retrospective, and channel since late 2020. Your videos were really fun and informative to watch during my senior year of highschool. Congrats, J!

I think what I’ve seen as one of the largest missed opportunities is that Classic Sonic spent the entirety of the game with Tails. How cool would it be for the Classic Sonic levels to have Classic Sonic with Modern Tails similar to Sonic 2?

Shadow: It all start with This, The game that started This entire retrospective. Sonic: That Sonic Forces!

In all honesty, regardless on what your thoughts are on Sonic Forces I'm glad this game exists cause if it didn't, he probably wouldn't have had the inspiration to make the retrospective in the first place, which has led your successful channel to where it is today. The journey has been long but very entertaining non the less and I hope you'll continue to enjoy reviewing video games.

I'm just saying, while watching this video I was confused when I saw Infinite. Besides from his cool theme and design, he was such an unmemorable character that I genuinely forgot he was in this game. And that's saying something since this is his debut game and he is has a major role as the secondary antagonist in this game.

Another problem is that some cutscenes didn't feel like cutscenes. Some were just talking with no backround animation for the "cutscene"

you getting to the end of this Just as frontiers is about to drop is honestly impressive its been a great retrospective bro

I know a lot of people didn't like this game but I genuinely think the avatar/OC character mechanic has a lot of potential in Sonic games and could be a great addition to the series going forward if executed well. Over the years, many fans have engaged with the franchise by imagining what their own characters would look like in the Sonic universe, so it seems like a very natural step to allow that creativity into the game and let people create characters to play as. Even though Sonic Forces was divisive, I hope they revisit this mechanic in the future.

Ok over a week later and I finally got around to watching this. And .... yeah. What else can be said. You hit the nail on the head. Concept vs execution. There were some good ideas here and i'm sure in enough time we'll look back and just be sad it wasn't better. Like how I am with 06 now. It wasn't a good game it never will be. But if someone likes it good for them. Glad they got some enjoyment out of it. I just wish all these games had lived up to the potential they could have had. Now to watch your frontiers vid.

I grew up with Sonic, still fondly remember playing the first game at a friend's house as a placeholder until Christmas when he was getting an SNES, but never really followed it. I've been watching a lot of video essays over the last year or so to see what I missed out on and have to say it's definitely been incredibly interesting, with the videos on this channel being among the best. Really curious what the verdict is going to be on Frontiers as I noticed the previews have been rather lukewarm but a major part of me wants it to turn out good and make me more than a casual observer of the series.

I find it hilarious that the mobile game that released alongside forces (sonic forces speed battle) was a lot more liked than a full fledged console game. Maybe you could review the sonic mobile games in the future

I was honestly turned off instantly with Sonic being reliant on wisps to boost. With Unleashed and Generations showing Sonic being able to boost all by himself, demonstrating how strong he was. Using wisps kinda kills that motivation, plus there was no context for their addition. And I bet we all know about Sonic losing movement options smh. The wisp themed weapons were cool though, but thats it.

I want to say this, if you have the Super Sonic DLC you can use Super Sonic during the Metal Sonic Boss. It’s the only boss you can do this in, and It infuriates me to this day.

Hold on... You invented the term "meta-era"? Just wow man, I thought it was a thing that surged inside reddit or another Sonic fan page, but to think that it was a guy in a group of friends that later made a video with that term... It's insane to me how it has spread across the entire community.

This game shows of a big problem of the Sonic games, Sonic friends are so useless. They make Sonic seems like a god as he’s the world’s only hope. Silver, Tails, Shadow, and Knuckles have been shown to be able to fight, but they write these characters like they don’t how to fight. This is why I like the IDW comics because it shows his friends being useful, tails actually fights along with Sonic in the comics

The 2010s was such an awful time to be a Sonic fan. Forces made me quit caring about the series entirely for the next few years. It was the first time where I looked back and realized how much more the 2000s era had. As the old saying goes: "You never know how good you have it until it's gone." Here's to hoping they make a comeback with Frontiers.

I do wish we could play as other sonic characters. I love the black knight game since you could play as different characters and knuckles, blaze and shadow had swords where you had to collect materials to craft them so it had some reason to keep playing.

As you can imagine from my username; my favorite types of games are those with some form of score attack, speed run, or letter-grade rank system. My favorite 3D Sonic games therefore are Adventure 1/2, Generations, (Project) 06, and the Storybook duology. In spite of this, I find you truly are the only content creator whose views I not only agree with, but understand. I love my janky Sonic, so I love J's Reviews. Because his reviews don't make a definitive "statement" on the game, but instead tell a story to explain his thoughts on the game, nothing more or less. Thank you J, for being a content creator.

This is just a game where it feels like every descion in it was made by corporate pressure rather than any genuine passion. Nothing about it comes together into anything noteworthy or substantial, just a big nothing.

I literally just beat this last night and you're right about everything. I was bored almost the whole time. If I didn't livestreamed it, I would have never finished it. I remember being excited for this game. Sad huge letdown

I believe the biggest problem (Gameplay-wise) with the switch from Generations and Unleashed style to the more Modern games like Forces and Frontiers appears to be the switch from using the Havok Physics engine to Bullet or some other Physics engine. They're still using the Hedgehog Engine for graphics, but the physics has taken a turn since the days of Havok. That will probably be my biggest letdown with Frontiers, but we will wait until the 8th...

Sonic Forces really is one of the Sonic games of all time.

finally someone brings up the sonic saying how you failed so badly line in such a bad way

You know, that makes a lot sense about Infinite, in how he seems more like a creation rather than a person with newly acquired powers. The "data and mechs" lines from his first fight were always odd to me, as was Infinite's lack of interaction with Shadow throughout the main story, but this video makes it clear why all of that was so odd. Like you said, Episode Shadow was clearly an afterthought, and that Infinite was indeed supposed to be a creation of sorts. The only way any of this could even make a _sliver_ of sense is if he truly was "reborn" from fusing with the Phantom Ruby, which would explain why he talked about his "old self" like that. Perhaps the original perished after the fusion and the one we see throughout the game is an advanced replica, much like the other villain copies from the Phantom Ruby. That might be giving Sonic Forces too much credit, though. It all just seems like a half-baked mess.

My issue that I remember with this game is how the interesting stuff happens through dialog while you meander through a level doing nothing

I'll admit, when the real Shadow showed up and kicked the fake Shadow in the head, It's dawned on me that Sonic never knew what Shadow Androids were. Also I didn't realize you were the one who coined the term "Meta Era"

One of the most disappointing games in recent memory. I wanted this to be good and it has so so much potential.

As someone who loves creating oc's, the character creation feature really is something I appreciated, being able to customize & play as my own characters in a sonic game is definitely a highlight for me when it comes to forces. the rest of the game I pretty much agree with you on though, it feels really unfinished in the story & levels, & infinite's origin is inconsistent.

Y'know, I used to defend Forces for not being nearly as bad as people say since I didn't remember is being that horrid. Though now I realize I don't remember ANYTHING about the game at all, which says enough on it's own, I'd think.

(28:19) I assume that the Phantom Ruby that (modern) Eggman found was the one that teleported from Classic Sonic’s timeline/dimension/house/dream/whatever. However, the thing is is that Classic Sonic shows up months AFTER the Ruby showed up on Eggman’s door.

*reads title* After a whole retrospective of build-up, this video is already cathartic 👌

Hard to believe it's already been 5 years since then. I feel old. 0_0

20:46 One thing to add on the P-06 comparison is the fact that P-06 isn't even a mod. It's a standalone remaster that doesn't need the original game to play. He quite literally took accessible code into unity and made pretty much a good majority of the stuff added into the game from scratch. And on a potato of a computer no less. So yeah, based on this fact you are right to conclude that Sonic Forces would need to go through an overhaul like 06 to even remotely live the test of time.

Sonic forces was my first sonic game, and I remember thinking it was pretty fun when it first came out. I replayed it a few months ago, and I thought that the gameplay was servicable, mainly due to not having played older games yet (still haven't, but I'm kinda tempted to). I remember my biggest critisism was the story, since I thought that the player OC idea was kinda stupid, and how you get to be best friends with sonic. After hearing so much about how good the old sonic games were, I am really tempted to try them out for myself.

There are some part in modern Sonic's and the avatar's levels start being kinda fun but they then end 5 seconds later, it's baffling

The retrospective has come full circle. Amazing videos as always.

Since you mentioned Forces mods, have you checked out Sonic Forces Overclocked? It is quite literally a different game (it isn't the same story as Forces, it's a sequel set two months after Forces), but I've heard many very positive things about it and I feel like it could be worth checking out!

Always enjoy hearing your in-depth thoughts. Excited to hear your analysis of Sonic Frontiers!

What also doesn't help about forces story is that a couple of plot points were changed when it got translated the story is the same so it's not that big but an example I should mention is that in the Japanese script nobody especially tails thinks sonic was tortured or dead since it was never mentioned

we've come a long way, almost at the end of this retrospective, I've enjoyed every minute of it and it's a bit sad to see it coming to a close. thanks for making these videos, J

My main issue with forces was that it felt too fast and too easy. Yeah, sonic's tagline is "gotta go fast" but the game felt like it went TOO fast and i barely got to savor what was happening around me while i shot through stages left and right. The fact that it basically plays itself and that the difficulty isn't too bad aside from terrible mechanics also shows a big problem. I think J said what we were all thinking when he called generations "the best 3d sonic game" and referred to forces as "handling like a prison toilet".

This is such a good video, It's been worth all of the wait, all of the build up and it's just so satisfying to watch

20:00 You are wrong J. I absolutely care about the thematic harmony of multiple playable characters and their distinctive playstyle. It's what make each sonic game so fun and unique to play in the first place. You are not the only one who cares about it.

The day we get a 3D Sonic game without 2D segments is the day Sonic is back. Still haven't had that.

Based on how the avatar plays, it's theorised that it was initially supposed to be Modern, Classic and Boom sonic, but when Boom flopped they panicked and made it a custom avatar instead

Oh my gosh... when you sent that character creator it brought me WAAAY back to memories I didn't know I still had