Thank You Jack, It was a good war, fought badly in Congress. A rich man's war a poor man's fight.

Thanks Jack U. I too was an air asset (Air Studies Grp OP 75) gunner, 20th SOS Green Hornets. I served with many great men, USAFSO and USASF. It was some of the best years of my life and I would do it again, in a heart beat. My only regret is that I only served 17 months in the 20th.

I was at Kontum, C&C Fob2. I don't ever recall anyone calling them RT(recon teams). Maybe it was just a local thing, but we only referred to them as Spike Teams. Fob2 teams were named after US states. I think CCN were named after snakes(?).

Zippy, CandC68 is right. The teams were called Spike Teams up until ...I think...1969, then the name was changed to Recon Teams. God Bless, keith

I'm not worthy to tie their shoelaces.

CandC68 Yes, CCN snakes CCC States CCS Tools@@CandC68

@@oneeye00 Zactly .

Thank you, Al gansk! You are a true patriot!

Thanks Jocko, I will look for them. All three of the men you mention are notable heroes and good men. Tilt is still active with SOAR and other aspects of SOG activities. You might be interested in reading Lynne Black's book "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot". Lynn was responsible for inflicting 9,000 casualties on the NVA in one day. This is verified by the North Vietnamese general who commanded the unit he fought. Lynne should have received the Medal of Honor for his actions that day. There are many others who deserved higher awards. Almost all SOG awards were downgraded by at least one degree, still SOG got almost half of all the Medals of Honor awarded to the Green Berets in Vietnam. God Bless, keith

Damien, God Bless your father for serving and God bless you for showing your love and respect for your father and those of us who served in Vietnam. Your father was a hero and you can be proud of him. God Bless, keith

Thank you, Bobby! Were you in the military? You might want to go to Amazon and pick up my CD about SOG Medal of Honor Recipients. It tells the story in a lot more detail. God Bless, keith

Tony, I didn't know your dad, but am sorry that he died with such poor care. What part of California was the hospital? There are Green Beret club all over the U.S. that would have stood up for him.....did they know? If he was with SOG you can contact SOAR, the Special Operations Association. Their contact info is: Phone:(702) 523-8429 Email: adm17soa@gmail.com God Bless, keith

@@oneeye00 It was Riverside down by LA county. Thank you for your reply sir. As long as he got buried in Riverside National cemetery final dep# 40 he got what he wanted. Me and My dad are poor , I live 60 miles away in Phelan California no transportation so since he died I was told from the VA I had to pay half the cost for the burial but my GF had a computer and sent a letter to the cemetery head supervisor and she called and assured me he is there but I myself have not made the trip to see yet ... I plan on it as soon as I can. If he is not buried I will give y'all a call and see if there's anything you can do . All he asked was for him to be buried in a veteran cemetery and me to come see him , and put a 1$ flag by his tombstone. I will honor that .

@@tony62197 Your a good man Tony and your dad deserves the honor a flag represents. God Bless, keith

I'm sorry for your loss and thankful for his service

ThankYou Adam, you had a lot of good men there who fought well. I especially remember your helicopter pilots...great men.

Thank You Iztok, I am flattered. Two U.S. Navy Seals who operated with SOG inside South Vietnam also received the Medal of Honor and I tell their stories in another Audio book entitled U.S. Navy SOG Seals available on Amazon. I would appreciate a comment on Amazon. God Bless, keith mckim

John Plaster did an excellent job of writing \about SOG. God Bless, keith

Ck out The dying Place, or Across the fence

Check out "Across the Fence" as well.

Thank You, Joseph. Were you in the military? I have another CD out that you can buy from Blackstone audio, "US Navy SOG SEAL" Audiobook by Keith McKim. God Bless, keith

@@oneeye00 Yes, I was in the Air Force but missed Vietnam by 3 years. I've always been interested in that war especially the special ops. I find that whole jungle environment to be intriguing and admire what the LRRPS, LRPs, Green Baret, SEALs, etc. had to endure physically and mentally during those patrols. I can't even imagine how scary those experiences must have been. I've bought a few books lately and I will definitely check out your CDs. Thanks again for your sacrifices for our country.

@@josephliptak Thank You Joseph and thank you for your service. SOG was the cutting edge of the sword in that war, but without Air Force support we were a sheathed sword.

Thank You, Steve. It's important that people hear and know the stories of SOG. Toward the last there were too many names to fit into the song, Old Blue. New people came in and didn't know the tradition and it was lost. Only the old timers, the survivors remember, except for people like you who read. Please tell others what you have learned. Keep the memories alive. I will try to help by writing more stories. God Bless, keith

Steve, you might want to listen to my audio book on MP3 entitled "Vietnam Green Berets S.O.G.Medal of Honor Recipients" God Bless, keith

@@keithmckim4032 I just purchased it. Thanks

@@steven3775 Thank You, Steve, hope you enjoy it. God Bless, keith

Robert, there are several companies interested in making a movie about SOG, but no one has committed yet. One company from South Africa, home based in Florida, one from Hollywood and one independent out of Colorado. These men need to be recognized and honored. God Bless, keith

@@oneeye00 hopefully someone commits and does it I have read as many books I can on sog even operation tailwind I mean you can make a movie just on that operation alone thank you for your service Keith and keep the spreading the knowledge about sog to others so it will never be forgotten

SOG*

I think it would make a hell of a tv series.

Thank You, Jim..........not a hero, a survivor. The heroes paid the ultimate price, it is my job to make sure they are not forgotten. God Bless, keith

It was my honor to serve our country and I continue to serve by writing the stories of SOG men so that thier legacy will not be forgotten. God Bless, keith

Jim F, Thank you for your comments. Each time we crossed the fence a six man team faced a minimum of 5,000 NVA soldiers making the odds 826 to 1. Oftentimes there would be 10,000 to 15,000 soldiers returning from battles in South Vietnam or coming down the Ho Chi Mhin Trail increasing the odds to 3,333 to 1. At Thermopylae the Greeks had 7,000 and they faced the Persians with 300,000 making the odds 43 to 1. We were able to win against those odds because of the brave airmen who had the courage to come for us. They were almost always under fire when they came to get us because we were usually under attack when we called for their help. God Bless, keith SOG CCN, one-zero ReconTeam Cobra

Correcto-mundo KM. Ground Studies Grp, Airborne Studies Grp, Maritime Studies Grp, Psyops Studies Grp, Radio Studies Grp, Recovery Studies Grp. All pure academics. Wink! Wink! Nudge! Nudge! ;)

@@Tsamokie A tip of the beret to you!

oneeye00 stolen valor..........Studies ObservationGroup SOG ????

My cousin is a SOG member Mike Corry from Washington GA. He died in April 68. He was stationed at FOB 3. Can anyone tell me about the mission or is it still classified?

@@sandycheney6411 Look for web sites dedicated to CCS. That was another name for FOB3.

Hugh, There will always be wars and rumors of wars. We have men ready to stand, fight, bleed and die to protect our God given freedoms. Did you know that every politician and every soldier takes an oath to Preserve, Protect and Defend the Constitution, not the country or the government, but the Constitution of the United States of America? The First Amendment to the Constitution protects our five, God given, basic freedoms: freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom to petition the government. These civil liberties are the cornerstone of our democracy and are based on Judeo/Christian values. God is the foundation that the Constitution is built upon, the Constitution is the foundation that the Country is built upon and the Country is the foundation that the government is built upon. Government (politicians and the deep state) is trying to usurp God's role in our nation. Fighting them is a cause worth dying for. God Bless, keith

Thanks Scott, they don't come easy. God Bless, keith

Thank You, Atilla, you can no get the stories on MP3 "Vietnam Green Berets S.O.G.Medal of Honor Recipients"

My mind is still ready but the body creaks, moans, whines and bitches a bit, but thank you, Jon and God Bless, keith

Thank You and God Bless, keith

Cliff, Thank You for your questions and insights. Jerry "Mad Dog" Shriver ran the most missions....around 40. Lynne Black was responsible for inflecting the most casualties in one day, 9,000. You can read the story in his book "Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot". I don't know the number of "over the fence" mission my team ran, it was fewer than 10. In my writing I want to emphasis the men of SOG and their valor. My story is unimportant. If you divide SOG like an NFL team, you would have rookies, average players, journeymen, stars and super stars. I would rate myself as a journeyman. Did the mission, did not stand out, was dependable, took the risk and survived. I was honored to receive the Silver Star, the Bronze Star, the Purple Heart and various other medals. The story of SOG is about teams that fought alone, with no immediate backup. An average firefight take less than 5 minutes. When we got caught or found it would be a minimum of 30 minutes for the choppers to get to us. So we had to invent tactics on the run: turn and attack the enemy who outnumbered us 10 or more to 1, jump off a 20 foot cliff into unknown space, find a defensive position then set up claymore mines, stack magazines and fight it out, pray a lot, try to outrun them, put out toe poppers to slow them down, circle back and ambush them, hide or whatever the one-zero decided, until the fast movers got on target, then call in airstrikes until the choppers arrived. My objective in writing is to tell the story of the men of SOG, who they were, where they came from, what was their background and training and why they stand out. I have yet to find a profile of a SOG man. They come off the streets of cities across America, from the farmlands of the Midwest to the deep south mountain boy to the surfer from California or the rain forest of the Northwest or the swamp country of Florida or Louisiana. Some came from foreign countries. Some were educated, some were high school dropouts, but all were intelligent, creative, risk takers and brave. God Bless, keith

IIRC,"Squirrel" Sprouse had over 70 SOG recon missions under his belt when I was medi-evaced from VN in Nov of 69. I THINK he and Billy Waugh ran the first SOG mission into North Vietnam. Billy and other guys from the 1st on Okie were running missions in Laos and Cambodia back in the late 50's.

Got it at the COWHAND in Woodland Park, Colorado

Pretty sure he notes this in the video.

“Our code name was the studies and observation group”

Grim Reaper you can ad captions on you tube if your hearing is poor

Was in country at B-42 until just after Tet. Volunteered for C&C (Which is what everyone now calls SOG). C&C was Command and Control North, Command and Control Central, and Command and Control South (CCN, CCC, and CCS). I think I heard ANYONE use the term SOG about once. And that C&C was under SOG. And SOG oversaw Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine special units. I don't know if any of the other Army SF "projects" were under SOG. And some of the naming was a bit dynamic. I was in Kontum at C&C Fob2, (via DaNang) and that is how my mail from home was addressed. But somewhere in there the name became C&C Central, I think.

Get em boys

Please correct your language when you are on this site. God Bless, keith

jebj1, Your father probably served with a CIA program called White Star, which existed 1960-61. These guys wore civilian clothes and the unit was disbanded in 1961 ( I think) when Laos declared itself neutral. God Bless, keith

Thank you so much for that info. I'm trying to learn more about where he was and what he did. He rarely talked about it and I didn't want to press. He also mentioned his unit reporting to the Joint Chiefs. He passed away in 2009. I'm trying to learn more to teach my kids what a great man their grandfather was. Thanks again

jebj1, it appears your father could have been in the forefront of what later became SOG. Are you aware of the book “SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos in Vietnam” by John L. Plaster?

Yes I have that. Great book. The thing that baffles me is that my father was in the USMC 3rd Marines but I see that SOG, white star, etc was Army Green Berets. I remember reading somewhere that later on in SOG, Navy seals, green berets, and Marine recon were all used.

@Gary Williams What you say is true, but only Green Berets "jumped the fence", crossing international borders. All other military unit under SOG operated in South Vietnam. God Bless, keith

No, I don't know Denis which is not unusual. Although we were assigned to the same unit we only met in the club on stand downs. Daytimes were spent training and honing our skills. Then there were the training mission where we practiced our various mission techniques. CCN was the largest SOG unit and many men passed through. Most didn't last the three mission necessary to qualify as a SOG operator. God Bless, keith

t sam, Yes I am a lifetime member of SOA and performed before the SOAR convention in 1016. Are you a member? God Bless, keith

@@oneeye00 Yes I too am a "Life Member" of the SOA. I have been to one SOAR. I am planning on attending the 2020 SOAR.

@@Tsamokie i MISSED THIS YEARS SOAR...TOO MUCH TRAVELING. HOPE YOU HAD A GOOD TIME AT SOAR. God Bless, keith

Steve, we SOG men meet every October at the Orleans Hotel in Las Vegas, this year it is from the 19-23. The membership chairman is Ray Frovarp 4072 Ardenwoods Dr., Fayetteville, NC 28306. I'm sure he can guide you in your search.. God Bless, keith

Also, if you can get a look at a DD-214 for someone, check "item 12. Last Duty Assignment." SOG would not show up. But might show as "SOA (C&C)." You might get lucky if it was their last assignment.

I doubt it. SOG was only ATTACHED to the 5th Group for administrative purposes. SOG headquarters was at the US Embassy in Saigon. I flew there a couple of times to be debriefed after a mission.

@@bender138 I had no idea where they may have existed. I only recall a couple times anyone even mentioned SOG. Mainly, either before I got there or afterwards, it was always just "C&C."

@@CandC68 Same here,but I had heard a lot about C&C before I got to VN because I had just spent almost 3 years in the first on Okie,and 1st had been sending guys to VN TDY since the late 50's. We actually had some guys in the 1st that spent more time in VN,Cambodia,or Laos than they did on Okie. They would go for 6 months TDY,come back,and a couple of months later,go again. Billy Waugh,Marquis,Aborghe (spelling),and Eddie Gleason are a few names that come to mind. Oh,and one little Jewish guy named "Barney". Can't remember his last name.

Thank You, Tony and God Bless, keith

candC68, I operated with CCN, 1-0, RT Cobra and I ran with Nungs, but most teams ran Montanards. Company size hatchet forces did operate, but not very often because of the logistics of getting them in, ie too many slicks to get the whole company in and too many gun ships to provide protection and the resupply problems for such a large unit. An example would be the Oscar 8 operation where Maddog Shriver and many other good men were killed and almost all were wounded. The courage of the slick pilots and suppressing of guns on the surrounding hilltops by the fast movers, cobras and others saved the hatchet force. Billy Waugh was the covey rider that day. You can find out more about that operation from his book "Hunting the Jackel". Billy tried to get that operation scrubbed. You can go to my web site Keith McKim, Sog Medal of Honor Recipients and read the comments of other SOG operators and CNN launch officer, Colonel Ray Calafell Thank you for your comments and God Bless, keith

CandC68, I was shot out in March 1970 and received the Silver Star, Bronze Star and Purple Heart, God Bless, keith

CandC68, yes there were various size teams, but the larger teams did not operate very often because of the logistics involved, too many slicks to take in large teams and too many gun ships to support the insertion and then there was the resupply problems. Six men with combat loads could fit in one slick so there was one 10 second touchdown and the insertion was complete. The gunships needed were fewer. God Bless, keith

@@keithmckim2087 Not to mention every time a Hatchet Force platoon or company went in on a mission there was so many KIA and WIA that it usually took a few months to recruit and train replacements.

@@bender138 Really great insight! Training was the key to success Each time we lost someone there was at least a two week down time cause you have to train the new man to fit into the team. God Bless, keith

Tilt and I are friends. Ask him anything. you want. God Bless, keith

Thank You rider660r, I'll look into it. God Bless, keith

Only problem with a SOG film would be lack of dialog. They often went whole days without speaking a word to one another. So conveying a story would be difficult unless you used it from a narrators position.

Troy, the official name was the Studies and Observation Group. Most of us called it the Special Operations Group, I have also heard it called, as you suggested, the Special Observation Group. If you look it up you will find that: The collective degree of valor (combat heroism) against an armed enemy by the unit nominated for the Presidential Unit CItation is the same as that which would warrant award of the individual award of the Distinguished Service Cross, Air Force Cross or Navy Cross. Thank you for your comments and God Bless, keith

@@keithmckim4032 When were you part of SOG?

​@@troyseals8646 I was with SOG and got shot out in March, 1970. CCN, Recon Company, One-zero RT Cobra, SPECIAL OPERATIONS LIFETIME MEMBERSHIP, I have been thoroughly vetted and have performed at SOAR IN Las Vegas. Troy, were you with SOG?

@@oneeye00 1968 Force Recon Panther 83.

Thank you for serving and your insightful questions.

Thomas, I notice that you don't address the issue. Going to war and fighting for your freedom dismisses your childish insinuation. May God Bless you.

Hey Thomas, please enlighten us noobs, when and were did you serve? We you ever in combat? Have you ever been the subject of enemy fire? Heave you ever put your life on the line for this great country?

@Big Man Never were what?

Thank you for your comment. I agree with you that we need to be skeptical of people who pretend to be Vietnam veterans who are not. I've known Keith McKim for over 15-years and he is the real deal. He has recorded "Vietnam Green Berets S.O.G. Medal of Honor Recipients" which you can find on Amazon. He is in a unique position to tell these stories for future generations. Keith and I have several friends that were Army Special Forces and one that was a SOG member. If you would like to talk to Keith, I would be glad to provide you his phone number.

I was home a few years before I knew we had a unauthorized patch. LOL. And I met kids who knew more about my unit than I did. I was just there. Doh. As a matter of fact, I was assigned to Fob2 Kontum. Went out as observer with one team, BDA. All quiet. Got assigned to yard camp a few clicks down the road. But at Fob2 main camp there was a bulletin board. On it was a several page spread, from Newsweek, or other mag. It detailed everything we were doing that was ts. It took me 9 months to top secret . But all I had to do was read mags? LOL

48retrop...........If you are familiar with SOG you know that anyone claiming to be a SOG operator is vetted and if found lying is exposed. You can access the various SOG sites to find out that I was with CCN and was shot out in March 1970 and was awarded the Silver Star, Bronze Star and Purple Heart. God Bless, keith

"anyone claiming to be" almost any valid unit can get in trouble. I heard of one bad ass decorated like a christmas tree airborne muther at an airport. He was spotted, then escorted to the rest facilities and demoted and defrocked. As I recall, his purple ascot is what drew attention.

Ahole