Keysi blended with gutterfighting actually sounds kinda cool. I think that would make a great martial art style for movies.

While I agree with a comments about sparring and pressure testing I find hard to believe that you couldn't find anything useful to incorporate in your background of judo Muay Thai and boxing ??

@@transcendentalarts5942 please don't misunderstand me, what I was able to truly take away from KFM was part mindset and a new perspective on martial art biomechanics. I still look back at my training fondly, especially the gauntlet drill (where you use the pensador through what is essentially a violent spirit tunnel of boxing padded hands). It's not so much that I couldn't add a anything to my base with KFM, but it was quite the opposite: my base added to KFM, not vice-versa.

@@Knucky_Sammich Agreed! KFM was poorly used in its movies.

You don’t make a competition with self defense systems because fighting for competition and fighting for your life are two different things. In self defense, there are moves that are inappropriate for a competition.

Hahahha great comment

That means Adam West Batman is the strongest Batman

Just for the records, Batman its more a Modern Ninja than a Keysi fighter.

Yep. That is Batman's best techniques. Batman is Ninjutsu/Taijutsu Or kyokushin Karate mixed in with judo and Jiu-Jitsu.

And routinely snapping elbows so hard that the bad guy lay on the floor twitching back and forth until you leave the area.

To be honest involvin real life fights, if I can b 100% truthful, the best Art for street fights is a construction of philosophies fuels the basics of striking techniques, defense lab is good for its strikes to me except som of thm but, there’s alot of thngs tht this style do thts beneficial to b honest, everyMartial Art is a piece of a puzzle tht we hav to pay attention to

You didn't have contact sports in your Defense Lab? The curriculum is usually uploaded to Kajabi, and you can watch the video content of everything you need for your grade.

@@MarcosAG90 I haven’t taken defense lab, but I’ve studied under multiple martial arts, didn’t hav the money to attend classes right off back so all my lif as a kid I trained on all the basics I could learn, and sense I was bullied regularly I applied those techniques in fights, I noticed my results changed up aftr I startd to think a diff. way about fights. To me, it’s not about the techniques tht u apply it’s about ur mindset wen applyin thm, to me personally because I had success wit this method, wen I c defense lab, I c it’s gaps jus lik u and many othrs do, n I c a lot of the stuff tht wrks n dnt wrk, I’d use it for its transitions and strategies as an option, I would personally recommend it for those who already hav experience with street fights & in ring fights

the best thing bjj will teach you is, if possible just run away (or butt scoot away) nothing is worth getting slammed on concrete or gettin stabbed

I'm late but it's weird they do that when Andy was part of Keysi and yeah I took a class of keysi that was privileged to be taught by Justo and we sparred more than anything

You should learn stuff that works with the drunk and the martial artist. Dont get why you should limit yourself.

@@MethaTuganmartial artists don’t make unprovoked attacks.

Fuck Defence Lab. Andy Norman is a right piece of work from all I've been told by the wider team of Keysi and ex-KFM guys. I am not a fan of how he's used the official Defence Lab socials over the years with pictures of knives or reposting street fights with armchair criticsm either. It gives the whole fighting method a very poor reputation, so I'm unsurprised that few have time for him nowadays.

So, is keysi a decent martial art or I must to find a better one?

​@@XD1999cable I've met two people who are K1 Kickboxers that swear that what they learned in Keysi saved their lives, but that's just hearsay, so make of that what you will. If your objective is defending yourself, like all combative arts really, do it alongside a more conventional, proven art like boxing or wrestling. In my humble opinion Keysi's worth it for the focus on biomechanics and the rather atypical topics that they cover, such as manouevering to get something beween you and the attacker, or escaping the floor when you've fallen. Like I said before as well, it's not one of those martial arts that de-emphasises fitness. If nothing else you absolutely will get fitter and stronger doing Keysi. Hope something there helps!

Mr King, I think the key point in your statement there is 'K1 Kickboxers'. Those gentleman already had an excellent delivery system in place, so they were quite capable of taking the concepts and techniques they learned in Keysi and making it work via that delivery system. Someone without that benefit may not be able to be quite so effective.

@@HeinrichKonig I just had an idea that this martial art is made ineffective to be like theather or even something actual batman who knows legal issues and public image would use since its mostly a defensive if it even is plus i also think against street punch of that era who don't really learn kickboxing or mma it could be 50% beliable in film the idea is its not defending yourself its more like showing that u are restraining urself like your covering yourself up in a ball like a kid so the other guy knows and the unconvensional strikes are part of it since it takes 10x more energy to think esp if the strike is targeting the most furthest

No, it doesn't. If you are wearing Kevlar it makes no sense to have a defensive fighting style, Ben Affleck has a much netter fighting style for someone in mostly bullet resistant armor.

​@@user-73a Bale batman's style was decided on because they wanted to be able to have Batman attacked by multiple people but have people believe it's realistic. Batfleck was specifically a power fantasy with the idea that he could just tank and block every hit. Different intentions that both make sense

@WangFire bale was wearing Kevlar and none of those guys could hurt him but he still used the Casey fighting style which was defensive, he actually made no sense. Holding Ras AL Guul with one arm over a cliff was the definition of power fantasy.

I like that he's saying that it lacks actual combat experience to work out the kinks. But the keysi method just needs to get rid of those useless unorthodox strikes, focus on the clinch a bit more, maybe add a few grappling moves.

@@eldirtyfaygo5395 Definitely. It has good fundamentals but lacks in execution. my father and I did Keysi as I went into my teens and we made sure to do actual sparring to make sure what we were doing would actually work. If you follow Keysi step for step, you will get hurt.

Good points. I have a friend who developed a system that employs the helmet guard in conjunction with an aggressive entry aimed at literally jamming your shin and dropping your weight into your opponents leg. When it hits right it does feel like your leg could break. While I believe my friend's approach has some merit I see it as something to supplement those who already have a solid base in standup fight. These types of helmet guards have some use but they are something to use sparingly. And they are conducive for throwing those hammer fists you mentioned.

As a former student of Muay Thai (ancient style), I am confident that the helmet guard is is a good basic technique useful in the circumstance where we are blocking and counterattacking continuously. It works well for its real use. I want to see the u-tuber sparring with a skilled helmet-guard user. I want to prove whether his hypothesis is correct or not. P.S. I was in some accidental street fighting scenarios, where applications of the techniques seen in this VDO (claimed useless or impractical) were useful as against and injuring the opponents. It is the reason why I want to see him fight not just say to disregard or decline these fighting methods. (I am not that aggressive, but I just want to see him prove the things he speaks out which seem to be on his credible imagination.)

@@sammyli9456 It just seems like a worse version of the Philly shell, which is actually a legit technique.

Kali is only good for cyber security purposes, change my mind

Keysi defence lab bando Kali Silat Panatukan Krav maga Israelí Bokator Muay Boran

but can buy some cool merchandise :-)

So under-rated I just died🤣🤣

Which is better KFM or Silat+Kali?

I mean, honestly, except for the pensador, wouldn't you be as well off with a Dan Inosanto or Erik Paulson lineage that spars and competes?

I like the concepts ,similar to 52 and for very close quarters.

Poor guy

You seem to be experienced with these systems. Is there more value in training one or the other for a while? I was thinking of flying over to Sevilla this summer (I don't live too far away). Not looking for the one and only system but effective nuggets I could blend in for the goal of purely self defense (trained in mma krav and spear for a long time).

enter Bruce Lee…

Agree. Basically what mr Bruce Lee was preaching in the 60-70s that came to revolutionize martial arts.

The guys that founded the system Were JKD practitioners

As above have referenced. "Be like water." Bruce Lee

The main benefit of keysi training is practicing in a ton of awkward positions and learning how to protect yourself in them. So you’ll learn how to fight while against a wall, sitting down, even laying on the ground. So when you’re put into these positions that you will be put in you have a bag of tricks prepared.

@@jacobcarrizales427 cope

I really like your input here. I studied Ryute Renmei Kempo Karate which uses a lot of joint locks and pressure points. My mentor was my father in law (too disabled by agent orange to teach it now). Let me explain something before anyone shits on my experience. My mentor pressure tested this style often because he worked as a police officer and had to defend himself quite often. He also taught police various techniques that compliment their work. What he taught works very, very well. Landing a hit on him was a very difficult thing to do and I've witnessed many people try. The problem is that one is very skilled at 6th Dan like him. Not a low training level like me. I never went as far as I should have and regret it every day. Ryute takes a very long time to become good at. The techniques are amazing and use the body against itself (hard to counter someone who just put you in an arm lock and made you eat dirt face down). I can make the stuff work and have used it to defend myself on several occasions but my lack of finished training makes me less effective in areas such as timing against punches, etc. Enter KFM. I found the pensador very effective at closing distance and not all that unlike some kickboxing defenses. I noticed that it creates great openings for hammer hands, back fists, knife hands, trapping, joint locks, clenches, elbows, etc but the way that KFM or DL chooses to teach what to do when in position for those openings is lackluster. This video actually corrects much of these missed chances. Why would I strike the thigh when I can just hammer the face or knife hand the side of the neck while slapping the ear and possibly knocking my opponent out or make them lose balance? There is even one video that shows them punching the bottom of a foot when they push a guy against a wall and lift his leg. Why? don't know. And why push him against the wall when you can use him as a body shield against others, choke him out, joint lock and break or submit him, etc. why let go of the control you gained? I, like you Lady Plagues, have found use for some of what they offer and it changed my perception of what is possible. The pensador can really close the distance and get me where I want to be, in close to control joints and go for strong, tight strikes like how I studied from peek a boo boxing. I feel this video tries to give them credit where due but forgot that even the smallest useful tool is still a useful tool if it works for you.

@@bravenkirok3142 Thank you for sharing your insight. That sounds like a very interesting journey that you've gone through to get to where you are. It's really refreshing to hear about someone who has lived it.

@@bravenkirok3142 I get it you give them credit for that I was wondering on ur thoughts on the spear system which i thought was basically the same thing

Thank you! an actual reasonable person looking into the world of martial arts

@MrFreak9.1.1 And i'll probably win unlike if i use some other bullshit

I want to know from a keysi practicianer to tell me how they handle upper cut combos. Lol From that clip the keysi guy block the first punch. expecting leaning to the left, like he's some sort of magnet hoping the punch attach to him. I been to alot kyokushin tournaments no way in hell that would happen.

@MrFreak9.1.1 "even if you "win" you go to jail or get sued if you crack their skull or back" - Thats why i don't get in fights with random people "If you don't knock the person out with the first strike then you're most likely losing if you're the one with the broken hands." - I'm not hitting them anywhere but the jaw, and my hand wont break on their jaw because i don't have bitch hands lol "This is reality dude. Not the ring." - oof

@MrFreak9.1.1 oof oof oof oof oof

@MrFreak9.1.1 hahaha wtf. Dude go do mma. Bro to Bro. Just drop all the "Made for street fights" shit and become a beast in the warrior's sport. If you're really worried about your safety, get a concealed carry permit.

It's too gimmicky but it has potential. The method was created by bouncers and is supposed to be good against multiple goes, the attempt of actually using it in a real fight goes out the window with those fancy strikes. Simplicity is the bread and butter, the thinking man stance is cool tho.

It wasn't created by bouncers. It was created by a small guy who regularly got jumped while working in a mine. Small person, multiple attackers, confined space. Not saying this adds efficacy to the system, i stick to boxing, and traditional karate. ​@eldirtyfaygo5395

aikido? lmao

Literally the best use of the Pensador I've seen so far!

@@ArmchairViolence Nevermind the dance, we have the....Carlton Fighting Method?

That'd be cool though! Hopefully, you can get at least one of them on.

Justo usually hard to get a hold of. Andy Norman usually is pretty cool about it. Check out 2 part interview we did a few years ago. First time Andy came out of hiding after a while. Part1 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iNKAlr2AubfVk58.html and part 2 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rJtlksKht7S6eqM.html

This guy didn’t answer A anything. I took one DL class…One!!! I can tell you firsthand this guy doesn’t know shit

This guy didn’t answer A anything. I took one DL class…One!!! I can tell you firsthand this guy doesn’t know shit

This guy didn’t answer A anything. I took one DL class…One!!! I can tell you firsthand this guy doesn’t know shit

elbow strikes are great for a Gracie/BJJ practicioner. But if you don't have world class grappling....its dangerous to play around at elbow range with someone larger or stronger as you will wind up on the ground in no time.

Competition has ruined MMA?

You can find bits and pieces of things that can work in virtually every system, but it's kind of like looking for food in the trash. You should only do it if you have no other choice lol

@@ArmchairViolence hahaha I guess😂. Is there actually a system that s not oriented offensive? Something that actually based on how to take a hit or avoid it, disengage from the individual or groups effectively and escape?

@@notannie4798 Yes! Take up running. 🤣 Being fast and athletic is the best way to get away quickly. If you want to be able to survive an extended engagement, you need to genuinely be able to fight.

@@ArmchairViolence 😂. I have watched most of your videos. Apart from mma, what would you recommend?

@@notannie4798 you might laugh, but i've found capoeira to be excellent for things like movement, active defense and fitness. seems to fit your requirements

"Isn't worth tge money to learn the whole program" Well...I don't know dna, but you sound like it really worth it, and maybe you just quit for different angles of social pressure xD. Don't restrain. What I suggest is, if you have the money, go re enter in, reach the black belt (whatever they call) and teach YOUR WAY, keeping what works for you, and omitting or developing what is lacking there. Tell you what, I'm from kickboxing, and first kickboxing I learned it was chinese (SanDa), and after a while they erased knee (well.. and elbow, and shoulder, and grappling, previously) techniques. BUT TODAY I STILL TEACH IT xD, I just change the order so advanced practicioner learn knees for a wider combat situation, and beginners learn kickboxing for tournament situations. That's it, you can adapt it if you like it 👍.

There is no super secret sh it out there just waiting to come out. It's all already out and world wide. Every country does MMA now and we already know what works and what doesn't. No reason to even get interested at a first glace at some or any bullshit otherwise. Its good on you what you did I just honestly don't even understand what people don't' understand about the basic fact I put. There is nothing new coming, this has already been done and tested for many decades now world wide across all systems. There is no question about what works and what doesn't at this point. Its called MMA - boxing, kick boxing/muay thai, wrestling, basic subs. And really if you just practice your cross, hook, upper cut, calf kick, front kick, rear naked choke, triangle, single/double leg take down you're golden for most anything you should ever get into unless you're some sort of jackass trying to fight everyone. You're only going to be doing basics anyway and in even there only what you train the most will come out. May as well do 3 punches 3 kicks 3 subs and basic takedowns. Keep it simple keep it crisp and you'll be better served. I'm 40 years old now and we been training since we were 12 and all those I listed are all the techniques I ever seen my friends or myself have to do in a street fight and even now my son as well.

LOL 🤦

Your first mistake was assuming that there's any sort of logic to what they're doing lmao

L'importante è crederci 🤣🤣🤣

Check out Craig Douglas at shivworks.

@@reidtaylor5019 thx mate! I'll go check this out!

It really depends on what you're looking for. MMA is excellent for hand-to-hand. As long as you're doing something reasonably good, the most important thing is that you enjoy it and want to keep doing it! If you like Muay Thai better than wrestling, then do Muay Thai. If you like shivworks better than MMA, then do shivworks. Whichever legit system gets you to train consistently is probably the best system for you!

@@ArmchairViolence thanks for the reply mate, I appreciate it, I'll Keep on MMA! But I want to discovery those legit systems, for now I only know the SPEAR, and shivworks that Reid commented, I would like to know some more! Y'know, always experimenting and testing

@@ummalucoqualquer5771 Fit To Fight Republic is a decent self-defense one. And they have a KZfaq channel you can check out.

Let us know how it goes. That said, an MMA striking class will probably give you answers for blocking with small gloves that are cheaper and more effective than DL.

Thanks buddy. What would you recommend? I've tried crazy monkey which is Thai based and was used in older days mma (rampage Jackson etc) but not really up to date on the current mma scene as I follow boxing more.

I feel like the "oh fuck" positions are a little disingenuous. Putting your arms over your head is a very basic human panic response. Trying to sell it as a feature of the art seems dodgy. And from experience, I can say that training for what to do in the "worst case scenario" is not nearly as useful as training to avoid that scenario with all your might. Because once you're at that much of a disadvantage, you're probably fucked.

I've taken seminars under Paul Vunak as well.

@@institches2750 obviously never been jumped or out drinking in the uk pal lol .. it exists

@@institches2750 The fact that it's instinctive is why it's used and why it works. It's just a matter of taking the flinch response and training in some adjustments, so it's more effective than simply covering your head blindly as you bend over.

Paul Vunak is essentially teaching the modified Wing Chun that Bruce Lee developed working with Danny INsanto (spelling?). Its a fairly good martial art with a lot of potential...but Paul mainly gets by with his awesome speed and unusual explosiveness. For the average person, JKD is probably no better...or even as good as basic boxing. I know...I also studied the same stuff myself for 15 years and eventually gave it up for my old kickboxing stuff from when I was a kid. Keep it simple stupid...a good policy for me since I'm stupid....and JKD is NOT simple.

Does it though? I unno we tend to think actually being able to fight looks cool.

No one trains to fight multiple opponents because tis dumb anyway. There is no fighting multiple opponents there's getting badly injured and losing. You aren't Mike Tyson in his prime or Alex Pereira who could knock a few doods out in a row with one punch. You're an average(likely below average actually) rando who can't fight. You aren't winning vs multiple opponents, learn how to fight one person well and go from there. No one is waiting around to gank you like in the movies

@@SM-nz9ff Before I got into these kinds of fights. I was sixteen, 6'5" 400lbs, with more then a decade of training and experience. I started fighting when I was four. I was not a good person at the time. I rarely had less then 500 dollars in my pocket. And, yes, there were multiple occasions where people were waiting around to gank me. That's actually a real thing and not just for movies. So, yes, if that is your chosen lifestyle, you may want some training in how to deal with the situations you are going to find yourself in. So, yes, there are people who both train and are trained to fight multiple opponents. That is also a real thing. I am curious, what are your fighting qualifications? I get that a person can be really skilled at a similar thing and think that that makes them an expert at other, similar, things. Contrary to popular belief, there a lot of differences between fighting 1 person and fighting 4. Just because you are good at one does not mean you are going to be good at the other. I've seen people with 15+ years of martial arts training lose to complete amateurs because they didn't know what they were doing and making stupid mistakes. There is no honor lost in admitting that you don't know what you are doing. There is also no honor lost if you fail at doing something you have never been trained to do. Yes, I could win those fights but I also had a lot of training and a lot of experience.

​@@maxschlegel3566 Oh I was using the universal you and not you specifically. But no I mean when multiple people attack you they don't just wait to attack they all get in and actually jump you. OFC there are people who will wait in ambush or actually jump you. You misunderstood basically my whole comment, after all you yourself used the universal "you" in your OP.... For me though I trained Wado Ryu as a kid until I wrestled in High School for 4 years and took Ishin Ryu/Judo while in the military. Was a USAF TACP until I was wounded in combat in Ramadi but obviously that comes with weapons training among many other trainings. Since then I been doing MMA at the ​ Miletich gym here. So in total that's 30 years since I'm getting boomer age now at 40. You're 6'5" I'm 5'4" so my little ass is pullin out the strap if multiple people attack me.

@@SM-nz9ff Yes, people who attack in groups do try to attack as a group. However, they are rarely so organized that there isn't some stagger. A fight against 4 guys might only last 2-3 seconds. That's, half a second each, maybe a little more. If I do get surrounded, I have a fairly, reliable, technique for exchanging places with one of my opponents. That puts everybody in front of me, creates confusion and chaos. And, creates that stagger again, if it doesn't create the opportunity to run/hide. I am out of that lifestyle. I got tired of dealing with dumb _____. But back then, I refused to train anybody who wasn't already trained. Street-fighting isn't a martial art, it's a type of fight. It is specialized training for a specific type of situation. But you still need something to build on.

This is the issue I think people have to realize; the stuff you train for and do in the street are similar in some ways but very different in others to training for an MMA fight. If you take someone who's trained a great deal for real world street violence and put em in a fight against a trained amateur or professional fighter and they lose, they've lost a fight against a single person in a sanctioned fight with rules. This doesn't mean MMA is useless on the street, in fact I'd argue training MMA is an outstanding way to build a solid foundation for self defence. You then take that foundation you built training MMA and pour all the skills knowledge, perception and tactics for dealing with street violence on top of that foundation, because while you're kicking one guys ass his buddy could come up behind you and knife you in the back, and you'll need to learn and train into muscle memory and proprioception the correct responses, hell. The ability to anticipate this dirtbag tactic by studying how dirtbags will dirtbag on the street. So to me it's not that it's 'MMA vs JKD/Silat/DL/Kali', it's 'yes' to training all of them and knowing what tactics work best in which scenario. I dislike the 'Defence Lab is useless' commentary because to me it's like saying "socket wrenches are useless". In certain situations sure, but you have multiple tools in your tool box so you can deal with different situations. Not everything can be fixed with a hammer and a saw. Similarly, sometimes an "oh fuck!" Shape or frame might keep you from being knocked the fuck out so you can get to your Thai kick and single leg takedown.

that sounds like the most made up comment that u could make under a fighting methods video tbh with u..

@@qqlf207 was that comment aimed at me, or the original post? Technically speaking, all comments are made up, so I don't understand what you mean by that.

They are. They have a strong Keysi base and attempt to mix it with combat sports. It's weird to look at lol Good eye noticing the moves in their curriculum, though.

1. My expertise in the system is irrelevant. I know how fighting works. I any of my statements or suppositions about DL are wrong, explain it to me. But whether I've practiced DL doesn't change the fact that they have some mindbogglingly dumb moves. You would have to argue that those moves have a use in scenarios that I've never considered or heard of, or argue that the martial art, on average, isn't nearly as dumb as that move is. And, if you pick the latter, I would ask why Andy Norman would only advertise the worst, dumbest moves in the system? 2. Most arts have drills, but drills usually involve moves that have a chance of working. I know you wouldn't be moving in a drill like you would in sparring, but why wouldn't you just drill better moves? 3. If normal sparring usually reverts to basic Muay Thai moves, then isn't that evidence that Muay That is better and more useful? I get that the Pensador is for when everything collapses, but basing your system around fighting from a tactical disadvantage is a terrible idea, and most of the Keysi and DL systems seem to launch off the Pensador. That violates basic principles of combat. Trying to win from a losing position is a terrible idea, and it seems to be a massive chunk of that system. Functional arts stress getting the positional advantage. Only non-functional arts base their systems on winning from a positional disadvantage. It's an exercise in futility. If you have to resort to the Pensador in a fight, they're going to kick your butt either way. I would very much like to see a video of sparring, though. Multiple DL people have commented saying that they spar, but no one has given me a video of actual sparring. You can probably understand why I am very skeptical of the sparring, at this point. 4. I'm not saying that DL has zero useful moves. Almost every art has SOMETHING usable, but that's a very low bar to climb over. However, the elbows and hammerfist attacks that I've seen from DL just look blatantly worse than the elbowing and clinch game of Muay Thai. The strikes are from awkward angles and the target zones are often silly. Why practice DL when there are blatantly better alternatives. This isn't about whether DL CAN work. It's about whether it's worth learning, or whether it's simply an inferior striking art. Is Aikido worth learning for the 2-3 moves that could work? No. Why learn a mediocre art when you could spend the same time learning a good art? I get what you're saying about Karate Kata and sparring looking different, but I can actually FIND Karate sparring. There's actual film evidence that it exists, and we can all admit that the Katas are a non-functional tradition that have virtually no practical value. In DL, the stupid Katas are the only thing that seems to exist in that art. I've seen no evidence of effective sparring, or anything that looks significantly better than the stupid Kata drills. If Karate had as much Kata as DL seems to, then the entire art would be an absolute waste of time. 5. The difference in that example is that the other guy is ALSO a boxer. If two boxers fight each other, a boxer will win and a boxer will lose. It's not about who wins or by how much. It's about the fact that there IS sparring. It's about practitioners pressure testing themselves. And it would also give me a chance to see what the DL practitioners are managing to do when they spar. Are they managing to use DL moves live, or does it just end up looking like bad Muay Thai sparring? 6. I judge people based on their actions. And Andy Norman has created a system that will promote someone to black belt AND certify them as an instructor entirely online. I can't say he's a bad person, because I don't know him. But I CAN say he's a bad martial artist, because of things like that. For reference, the Gracies have a system where you can take online lessons before coming into an actual school to test for your blue belt. That program is still very controversial, and is skirting the line of "legit". Andy Norman's website promises to make you a black belt instructor ENTIRELY online. That is way, way over the line and lands him squarely in "McDojo" territory. 7. I will say that, solely based on the comments on this video, the cult thing applies WAY more to DL than Keysi. I've had a few ridiculous people arguing for Keysi, but I've had what feels like a non-stop string of people rapidly arguing for DL, and most of them make the same bad arguments. It sounds like they're hitting pre-prepared talking points. You are easily one of the most reasonable DL people I've talked to so far, because you actually took the time to make real points, which I thank you for. The DL people feel more culty partly because whatever they say always boils down to Andy Norman personally. I can't recall many Keysi people caring about Justo Dieguez one way or another, but the DL people do seem to have a much stronger 'protect the leader' mentality, as you put it. I admit that my experience with DL people is a convenience sample, and the larger population might not look like that. But many of the other DL people that have commented have done you a disservice lol 8. Dang, did Demi Lovato get a blue belt in 2 months?? I want to look this stuff up! If what you're saying is true, that sounds like a potential video idea lol It's true that there are plenty of systems with McDojo elements. DL is FAR from the worst martial art out there. But I try and call out BS when I see it, even if it's from martial arts that I like. Thank you for the input. It's a low bar, but this might be the most productive exchange I've had with someone defending DL. lol

Ok, I Googled Demi Lovato. She trained BJJ for over a year, so that one's actually ok

@@ArmchairViolence at the risk of sounding like I'm trying to take advantage we can always talk privately or maybe video call so we can still have more of this healthy debate and I can tell you some stories about real cult mentality and things I've seen within the time I've been with them and maybe share some more experiences and maybe material, cause I've been in the 3 of them (KFM, Keysi and DL) you prolly have more DL folks replying since almost all of them speak the language whether Keysi folks not so much lol, that prolly can explain it a bit but hit me up if you want to talk and such, have a great one man ✌🏼

@@ArmchairViolence “I know how fighting works” hahaha we’ve seen your fighting video DUDE

@@fredcray3686 Let's see your fighting video then It had better be great!

Yep Li Shu Wen perfected his art.They call godspear Li, his technique with a staff and of course spear was legendary.The man could kill a fly stock on some glue paper on a glass window without breaking it using a thrusting technique. And as you said he was a sociopath, no wife no children only the desire and passion for kung fu.Being undefeated and only draw once against another martial artist makes you boost that quote of "I don't know what it means to hit the same man twice". The families of the victims could have him poisoned.There two master's of kung fu who had been poisoned, 1 is master Hua from the Jin Woo school 2 is master Li Shu Wen from the bajiquan schools. Sorry for long history lesson.✌️🙏

Anyone can theory craft, where has this been tested at or shown? Talk is just talk anyone can type whatever it literally doesn't mean anything

@@SM-nz9ff well it’s not actually theory because I fought for over 15 years. So I know these things work because I use them on people myself. My hands have been used for way more than just typing my friend

Since you want a general, well-rounded knowledge base, MMA might be the best one for you. Most people that take lessons don't actually compete, so you won't be expected to do the sports aspect. And a lot of MMA schools also mix in some self-defense curriculum occasionally.

I would strongly suggest that you find someone actually skilled teaching boxing. There’s lots of people out there who can throw a punch but very few that are actually skilled at the sweet science. The continual practice of what you can learn here is very well established as effective so you can have faith that what you’re learning is useful.

@@dbuck1964 I agree....boxing is the shortest straightest line to being able to injure another human through punching. Far better than karate or average martial arts other than mma and Thai......but how to not fracture ones hand. There's a reason whey there's a fracture called "Boxer's Fracture". Anyone with skills and experience on the street has had their hand broken...even Mike Tyson. If Tyson can't throw without fracturing...the rest of us are hopeless.

This guy doesn't understand that the guard is created for the purpose of defending against armed opponents as well, because it's not made for the "ring" it's made for the streets. If you get hit on your forehead with a metal pole, you are dead. Your forearms can tank it, however. This guy just doesn't understand the context of this martial art. It's for practical defense. Same with the slip. This guy doesn't understand that moving around and being unpredictable, flexible and slippery is what Keysi is all about. He says slipping while moving is wasted movement, but for Keysi, it's what makes you stay on your feet. The moment you stop moving, you are getting body slammed to the ground by 3 opponents and you die. He even says targeting legs or arms of your opponent is a waste of time, but he doesn't understand, that you rarely have a good opportunity to hit anything vital in a street fight. It's chaotic, it's loud, it's unpredictable, it's often facing several people at once in a confined space. If you learn how to effectively hit legs and arms, you will be landing a lot of hits. If you only ever learn to aim at vitals, you are only ever going to hit noobs, an average street fighter with a proper guard will never allow you to hit him, and once again, you are gonna get overwhelmed and you'll die. This guy simply doesn't understand Keysi.

@@mitromney completely agree. The slip conversation is a big give away he doesn't understand or even tried to. We want damage at all times. If they punch my elbow. My elbow wins every time. It's not a slip, it's a reaction and retaliation.

@@mitromney No you simply don't understand fighting at all. No one who says "da streets" can fight and doesn't fight at all. Everyone knows this, that's why you bullshido clowns are so funny to laugh at.

Why though, he's not a professional. Why would it take a professional to take on a non professional wtf are you even talking about

Preferably neither. Learn boxing, Muay Thai, and a grappling instead

or Muay Thai or dutch style kickboxing

plus from the videos I've seen of keysi or defense lab they put too much effort into sumthing that could be done in one or two moves