Hear, hear!

It really sucks too because IMO season 4 was some of the best Trek ever. Too bad they didn't have that writing crew for seasons 1-3

@@pt29999 They tried too hard to recreate TNG and TOS in seasons 1 and 2. They should have either made it all about the humans intentionally traveling to known aliens to have official first contact or just gone all in on the Temporal Cold War plot line with a fully developed plot. They didn't even ever give Future Guy an official name or backstory.

I'd gladly take 3 more seasons of Enterprise over 1 more season of Discovery.

@@Nostripe361Great as it was, it had no clear arc for multiple seasons. You know writers are running out of ideas when they resort to time travel.

Beat me to it by 10 hours! Love that line...

Nice comparison. Looks like Karn is a poet too ;)

Considering the Klingon distaste of water...

The Klingons arent evil. Just really like fighting and are just as arrogant as the Vulcans, but in a different aspect. Vulcans think they are smarter than everyone, Klingons think they are stronger than everyone.

Indeed. You hate them when they are against you, but you're very happy to have them on your side.

The Klingons are an interesting bunch, that's for sure

@@tonyjackson4078 AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED,THE"KLINGONGS"ARE THE STRONGEST OUT OF ALL THE ALIEN RACES EVER SHOWN ON ANY OF THE STAR TREK SHOWS AND MOVIES(WITH THE EXCEPTION OF SPECIES 8472),PERIOD.

@@tonyjackson4078 I'd say they are evil. They kill people simply to play honor games. That's pretty evil in my book. Their ethos sounds glorious and all, until real people pay for their honor. And usually, they aren't interested in fair fights. The romulans might be ruthless, but they are pragmatic. Far safer to deal with. They won't start a war just for sport.

Klingon honor has always been fluid they do dishonorable things to win battle as worf said in one DS9 episode there is no greater honor then victory.

Ugnutz I think it’s more that political machinations of, say, House Duras are perfectly in keeping with how honor cultures function in a society like this, where honor is subordinate to appearances. Its why that house mostly acts through intermediaries.

Just look at medieval japan as a good example of that. It's all about saving face

@@kevlar3994 Or the courts of Bourbon France

All societies work this way. Whether the virtue they emphasize is honor or something else like reason, kindness, entrepreneurial craft, religious adherence, or whatever else, the hierarchy has to put forth a perception of valuing that virtue and having an abundance of it in their governing philosophy. It creates faith and legitimacy. You'd be very hard-pressed to find any society in human history without ritual supplication to an ideal, even if it's a multi-cultural society where singular virtues are all supposed to be subjective or practiced in moderation for the sake of allowing people their differences. That pluralism BECOMES the ideal.

@Joshua Sharwood I believe so.

I don't think elves from Middle Earth can grow facial hair. Whichs means romulans on CBS can't either.

only in the mirrorverse!

They have them in their souls. :)

Technically wouldnt the first bearded Romulan have been Sybok? He was a fan of passion over logic and had a sense of humor.

The next season would have had the Kzinti

@@yeenmachine206 No, the writers have already said that season 5 would've covered what happened to the Suliban.

Absolutely, this era of Star Trek is rich with opportunities.

I only saw parts of the first season of Enterprise and was kinda meh on it so I didn't keep watching... but in the years since I've kept hearing it had started to hit it's stride in later seasons. Makes me want to go back and watch it some time.

Personally I dislike the final episode

Like quark wanting odo to be the security officer If you know the rigidity of something you can better work with it

Considering that the Federation was composed of races throughout the Federation, that wouldn't make the Federation a Human empire.

@@CelticVictory considering that most of starfleet and federation staff are Human, I say it would

@@CelticVictory Humans are attracted to the concept of StarFleet and _a lot_ apply, and since it grew out of a Human organisation. Humans may have had an unintentional advantage in selection criteria: - _extreme curiosity,_ moderate but _controlled_ aggression, competitive but cooperative at the same time, forms tribal bond with assigned group readily, s̶e̶x̶u̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶t̶t̶r̶a̶c̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶m̶o̶s̶t̶ ̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶H̶u̶m̶a̶n̶o̶i̶d̶s̶, socially gregarious. That's a checklist of the average Human psychology in Federation society compared to other species. It was mentioned in storyboards for post Dominion War series concepts (before Nemesis flopped) that the Federation was profoundly changed, partially because since so many Humans were in StarFleet and so many had been lost during the war, that the entire cultural makeup of StarFleet was changing, as they were actively recruiting from non Human species as most of the suitable Human candidates had been killed during the war since they readily volunteered… interstellar war? Most Humans that could meet the standards would jump at the chance fast enough to make a Klingon proud. So the other species that usually sat back and let the more assertive Humans volunteer for Starfleet service and crowd out their numbers were being asked to step up. Thus Humans went from being the majority of StarFleet to a minority, especially among the newer recruits - the old guard Humans were tough though, being the survivors of a nasty war. Most of the new recruits however weren't Humans. While the Klingons lost a higher percentage of combat capable Young adults, they were just replaced with the same ethnic mix of more Klingons - perhaps more females as a lot of the glorious dead would have been the eager young men, but that's just supposition.

@@lEGOBOT2565 It's not that they are all staffed by humans, that's just what we get to see. There are references to all Vulcan crews but we get shown mostly human crews for budget reasons. Starfleet is more than just human officers.

I hate to be the one to tell you this, .. but you will not believe what that guy over there said about your mother.

@@krispalermo8133 that she has a smooth forehead?

True Klingon diplomacy. I always loved Martok and his wifes banter.

@@DanielTsosie Endless battles, you win some, lose many, yet in the end, we all lose the great war with them. Ah, .. marriage, its.. Glorious !

Or Quark going over the Grilka's families finances in front of Gowron and all the Klingons getting confused while trying to keep up.

And Andorians do better on ice worlds. I think your premise is sound. Your comment on colonies makes sense. And Starfleet vessels with large human crews set their controls to an Earthlike environment. As such, humans are more likely to serve on such vessels while other races would likely serve on vessels crewed by their own people which wouldn't be as humid, cold, etc. We do know that there were Vulcan ships entirely crewed by Vulcans in the 24th century. Since we only see Starfleet vessels that are largely crewed by humans, we only see those nonhumans comfortable adapting to an environment that doesn't feel climatically comfortable. We don't see the vessels crewed by members of species who don't want to adapt to an alien environment.

Human colonies are technically represented in the federation by the United Earth Government.

I've noticed something different between humans and everyone else. The Kingons, Romulans and Cardassians start tend to be close,d rigid societies and we only ever get to see the leading species. The Federation, on the other hand, tends to be open and we see lots of folks. Also, the Federation is quick to move forward. They're light and don't bother securing their explored territory They're attitude seems to be, "You want to be one of us, cool. If not, that's O.K. too. Here's how the navigation beacons work. Here's what we do and no not allow in our lanes. Have fun!" On the other hand, the Cardassians occupy and opress the Bajorans for fifty years and you have to wonder how many other worlds they did that to, only without the natives winning their freedom. Romulans, Klingons? The humans and the Federation they're a part of aren't just expansive, they prioritize parsecs over prefectures. Exactly not like any other their neighbors, which might be why none of them can ever come to grips with the UFP.

@@quisqueyanguy120 That from what I can tell is the case in the beginning. Both Deneva and Cestus 3 started out as colonies but eventually became full member worlds of the Federation. While I have never come across anything which gives details I expect that there are criteria for it happening. Likeliest the process is analogous to how a state became a state in the US. The constitution lays out minimal requirements for population and organization. The requirements for a world with an indigenous people are of course different. These requirements include Warp capability, a unified World government, and various other things.

Devil's advocate: their science was less...ethical, allowing for faster more efficient advancements at the expense of Klingon suffering under the guise of honor and duty.

"But, spies are not honorable. How dare you insult the Klingon Empire with such baseless accusations, you...!"

Klingons stole cloaking tech from the Romulans. Not hard to believe the klingon's update their tech both from the occasional internal development and the lucky finds from victorious battles.

​@@Timeward76 Didn't they get cloaking tech as part of the D7 exchange during the short lived Klingon/Romulan alliance?

@@beniboi6992 there is no true canon answer. In Star Trek Online, one character makes a passing comment about Klingons stealing cloak tech. In Worlds of the Federation, it's stated the cloak was part of the D7 exchange. In another book, it's claimed the ancient Klingons traded warp drive to the romulans in exchange for the romulan cloak. No one answer has been canonised, other than we know the Romulans are the originators.

I give ENT a slight pass because it's a result of First Contact

Given the amount of prequel shows we've had so far, I would be interested in something like a 3d animated mini-series of the Earth-Romulan war period

What turned me off of watching ST: ENT was the _first contact_ with Klingons in 2154; the ST: TOS episode 'Day of the Dove' established first contact with the Klingon Empire in *2218*!

It's important to remember that the Enterprise encountered the Klingons far earlier than they were supposed to. Klaang was driven to Earth by the Suliban. The Suliban were pursuing him because he had information about their attempts to destabilize the Klingon Empire. Klaang would've been no where near Earth if the temporal cold war never occurred and Earth wouldn't have encountered the Klingons. And if they did a miniseries of the Earth-Romulan War, you know Kurtzman would be involved.

Wouldn't need to use the original Enterprise crew; different cast/characters with the same ship. The original would've been scattered throughout the fleet to command other starships. . .

That would be awesome

SF Debris made a video about how Worf was shaped by human honor, how that put him in conflict with other Klingons, and how those concepts differ.

@@christopherwall2121 Worf was the most klingon to ever klingon this annoyed Jadzia, his rigid code of honor as being raised by humans made him overcompensate on his klingon beliefs he was for all intents and purposes a fundamentalist Klingon.

@@Ugnutz it worked to his advantage sometimes though, it meant he was willing to call other Klingons out on their bullshit when they always boast about honor, then do something exceptionally underhanded.

@@christopherwall2121 That basically is what isn't compatible, for the most part. Klingon honor is a more fluid concept when applied then when it's reviewed, as I understand it they used to have a whole array of things they considered honorable such as being good at your job (Not necessarily just for warriors, which now makes me think of honorable Klingon pastry chefs...) But this was then skewed super heavily towards just fighting when their society morphed to overrepresent their warriors.

@@Reddotzebra Klingon pastry chefs? I'd very much like to know more about klingon sweets and desserts! 😛

Manifest Destiny Star Trek Style.

I always thought that it was due to the limitations of the make up budget.

@@rinck17 it is.

Perhalps the adventures and mishalps that human ships got into, made for better storys for humans, than experiments and research abord vulken science vessles?

@@rinck17 The real reason.

I don’t know, Disco still makes no sense in Canon to me

@JRPGFan20000 Granted this could have been during the time that the Romulans had begun to infiltrate the Vulcan High Command as shown by Enterprise series. Perhaps they pushed a more aggressive move to bring the Klingon Barbarians to heel.

That never happened, if anything, the Vulcans would just label the Klingons as a hostile and illogical race to be avoided. They wouldn't start shooting Klingon ships as a sign of "look, bro, we're tough too!"

@JRPGFan20000 Agreed. I have not watched discovery at all actually. Looks bad. Just thought that it could still make sense for that to be canon even without disco trek.

I have to agree, even in Enterprise, the Vulcans are still fully displayed as being pretty peacful. While they do pull off some stuff, the firing on every ship they come across doesn't fit even their MO at this point in the franchise. Sorry, like the MCU, DISCO has its own timeline.

The Hurq invaded them, they stole tech from them, then drove them off

@@lovipoekimo176 Figures.

@@MandoMTL Well, not so long ago Klingons didn't value conquest and bloodshed above all else. Given what we've seen and heard of Kahless's teachings, the notion that he was the greatest warrior of all time was probably an invention of later generations as the warrior caste grew in power and Klingons culture shifted to finding honour in any form of bloodshed. Kahless taught wisdom and restraint.

@@ffnbbq It really is hard to imagine them as scholars. Of course that's my bias speaking.

What do you mean? Humanity focused on war and bloodshed not too long ago for most of our history, and *we* got out of the Stone Age.

when is the next season of that coming online?

It's to show that Vulcans observe while humans explore. It's to highlight the differences between the two species.

I mean it does get shown in enterprise that the Vulcans regained the true teachings of Surak in season 4, which implies they’d lost them to start with

What are you talking about? All the best warriors are poets. Klingon culture actually highly prizes art, and opera. They just view it through a very combat heavy warrior lence. But I doubt a house would be that up set a child wanted to go study the arts,

We have seen several examples of non-warriors ( albeit still beligerant ) klingons in TNG & DS9: Worf's son Alexander held onto his mother's beliefs of a destiny beyond soldiering while living with his father, and Dr. Crusher had a small cat-fight with a female klingon scientist ( klingon science - ha!). On Sisko's watch, fans saw a chef open a klingon restaurant on the promenade and Worf was persecuted by a lawyer representing the empire. Although Star Trek writers have broken the klingon mold several times, you must admit a whole episode devoted to a peta'Q storyline would not satisfy your bloodlust 👹

The doctor in Enterprise as well as the lawyer Klingons fit that bill. Both of those were decent non-warrior Klingons. Although you're right, they seem to always be more or less throwaway story arcs.

@@Zachomara Um, are you saying that Dr. Phlox was Klingon? Because if so, no, he was not. He was Denobulan.

@@tiggergolah no, he means Antaak, Klingon Physician who the one in charge of the looking into the creation of Klingon Augments.

Nope. All humanoids races in the galaxy are reproductively compatible because life has been seeded million of years ago by a single precursor race. TNG season 6 episode 20. Granted, this is not how species evolution works, but hey, that's the canonical explanation.

@@captainufo4587 oh right. I don't think about that bit of lore very often. So in cannon that works too.

@@kairon156 Canon about interbreeding is kind of weird. In an Enterprise episode about a time travel ship, Pholx looks over the dead body of the pilot and mentions how without medical aid it would have been impossible for some of the species in his ancestry to crossbreed. And in another episode with a half human half vulcan baby made by science, it is again mentioned how hard it is for the two species to procreate if at all possible and the baby does die by genetic disorder later. I'm gonna guess that while possible, it is difficult to get pregnant and said baby will need immediate medical aid to prevent genetic disorders or sterility

@@Nostripe361 If I recall the baby died due to a flawed technique used to make her. Flox stated something along the line of, if he made the child it would have lived a full and healthy life. I like to imagine some species are more compatible than others.

​@@kairon156 That works. Its been a couple years since i last saw it so you could be right about the baby. The way I see it would be the closer your species is in looks and planetary environment the more likely you are to succeed. So a human and Vulcan will more likely have a hybrid then a human and a Klingon but the chances are still low. Another issue would be how you breed since some species like Andorians have more than two genders. Still you do have a chance to have a child if persistent enough. I also feel that you would need to have a doctor look over the child due to the increased chance of genetic disorders or issues. For example a human vulcan hybrid might need medical care if say, their human characteristics are weakened or damaged by the copper based blood of Vulcans.

You know, every now and then hypocrisy needs to be called out - Klingons NEVER claimed to be egalitarian, as opposed to UFP. Garak and Quark settled the issue.

With some Viking mixed in.

Richard Lahan Yep!

@Joshua Sharwood Would be a nice one-off episode, maybe set in the Mirror Universe.

@@richardlahan7068 , Viking Samurai

I kinda see the Klingon empire like the Mongols/Feudal Japanese...

The Romulans have always had warp drive by the time we meet them even during TOS. That "simple impulse" line by Scotty was misinterpreted by fans of that era who didn't take into account the VAST distances between stars. The Romulans can't very well have an interstellar empire or wage war against Earth if it took them decades to travel at sublight. As for Klingon cloaking, probably a continuity snafu. The same thing happened on Enterprise in "Minefield".

@@ffnbbq I took the impulse line to mean that that was how fast the bird of prey was traveling at that moment. I agree that they'd have to have warp drive. They couldn't have fought a war against Earth without it.

'Power is simple impulse' (aka fusion?) As Scotty put it... does not have to mean 'PROPULSION is simple impulse', too.

Its tricky to judge some species. Vulcans and Andorians seem to be relatively small in population, but not much information is available on Tellerites. Its entirely possible you're right, or just that we mostly see things from an Earth-centric perspective. Its very rare to see anything happening on any other world other than Earth.

Well, there was the DS9 episode, "Take me out to the holosuite". Sisko and crew played a baseball game against Vulcans and didn't they say they're whole ship was a Vulcan crew? Maybe there's a lot if ships like that where most or all the crew is one species.

@@andromidius ; The Federation as of the late 24th century (the most populous of the Alpha / Beta Quadrant powers) has a population of around 800-900 billion and around 200 or so species. This leads to an population average of 4 to 4.5 Billion. Also Andoria only has a population of 3.5 Billion, Romulus has a less than 1 Billion, Earth has nearly 10 Billion and most known major Federation colonies are predominantly human. If I was to guess Humans at minimum have a population of 20-30 Billion and at most 70-80 Billion. Still for a point of reference in the the USA despite having only 5% of the population Earth has 25% of it's GDP and more than 90% of Earth's long range expeditionary blue water naval military power.

Well it doesn't sound like the Vulcans would be big on having large families. The humans of the Federation, I might imagine, have the mind set of have as many kids as you want. With the elimination of poverty and hunger on Earth and plenty of colonies those that want to have families of say at least 4 or more kids would be free to do so without government restrictions.

I do wanne clearefy that cause humans seem to be the biggest in number (by a long shot at times) that that's why the federation seems/is focused on humans? Or takes them as reference points

I don't know. We get to know the charming side of Vulcans, but I suspect that they could be ruthless when it's logical to be so.

@@frankharr9466 I believe ruthless Vulcans are called "Romulans".

@@Grubnar No. Ruthlessness is a tool. How it's applied tells you who's wielding it. Remember what Spock said about his dad'd ability to kill if it were logical to do so?

@@frankharr9466 "Remember what Spock said about his dad'd ability to kill if it were logical to do so?" No, when was that?

@@Grubnar Something like he would do so with logical efficiency.

He goes a bit more into it in the STO playthru videos

"Are the Romulans more diplomatic?"

The quote is patently false. The Klingons had a brief alliance with the Romulans. Relations didn't go down hill until after the alliance as the two cultures had two completely different sets of values.

@Flekk Bone Gnawer well, you have to be kinda neutral and not at each others throat to do a trade, especially when it's something valuable as a ship cloaking device

You’d be surprised. The Argentinians used a british built WW2 era carrier (that they admittedly bought off the Dutch) and two modern (for the 80s) british type 42 destroyers that they bought directly from the British during the Falklands war (and you should tell it to anyone who talks about that bullshit with France and the Exocets)

@@johnlavery3433 they bought it during the war from the nation they were at war with? O_o

I would imagine that those two names became common within that particular klingon house.

I know quite a few people who are named after a grandparent, and named their own kid(s) after one (or both) of their own parents. Keep repeating that pattern with variations and you wind up with common family names. Heck, there are three generations worth of Richards on my father's side of our family.

It is kinda Ironic that the lawyer Colonel Worf (Undiscovered Country) and Lt. Cmdr. Worf (TNG) both had the same. And the same actor (Michael Dorn). Apparently klingons reuse names after 2-3 generations?

@@christopherg2347 in that particular case, Colonel Worf was Lt/Lt Lt/Lt Commander Worf's grandfather So, it's a good likelihood that Duras son of Toral may have been a distant ancestor of Duras in TNG

@@christopherg2347 Honor Your Ancestor cultural influence at work?

In space there is no upside down.

No shit Sherlock

Well, yeah. I always preferred Worf's explanation in "Trials and Tribble-ations", but apparently *some people* thought a simple makeup change needed to be "explained". (Said people were also dissatisfied with Roddenberry's original explanation, when ST:TMP came out - that Klingons always looked that way, they just couldn't afford to show it.)

@John James That *was* his explanation, and all that was necessary - "We do not discuss it with -- outsiders."

@John James It's all the explanation that was ever needed. Why did their appearance change? None of our business, really. "Why did Constantinople get the works? That's nobody's business but the Turks!"

No, the Klingons were never conquered.

@@CelticVictory they were conquered by the Hurq. Also, in the Mirror Universe they were conquered by the Terran Empire.

@@HepCatJack No, they weren't. The Hurq are scavengers not conquerors. They stole from the Klingons but they didn't stay. And who in the mirror universe were conquered? Hurq or Klingons? The Hurq have been dead for a long time. The Klingons formed a military alliance with the Cardassians to defeat the Terran Empire. A dubious feat if they had been conquered by the Terrans.

Actually it was supposed to be the exact opposite. But the Kazon characters were so badly written and the makeup effects were so Horrible that Voyagers writers pretty much gave up on them and made them standard bad guys. A shame they couldn’t do better by the Seska character which had some promise.

They would have been totally unprepared for the Borg.

it is on xbox or it was at one point i had it on mine but now i play it on my computer and anything above an i3 will run it fine just make sure you have a pretty good video card and a good internet speed

That would be a cool idea for a one of episode or even a main threat for a show. I have played around with the idea for a fan fic. What if a Star Fleet ship encounters a civilization that has built up their military fearing Federation aggression. They would be decedents of aliens that strongly opposed their home world joining the Federation as they viewed it has the death of their civilization and nationality. I do get the vibe from some star fleet officers that a race joining the Federation is a sign of eventuality progress.

This is why the Gorn attacked a Federation settlement in their territory. They saw the Federation’s mistake as outright aggression because they feared Federation expansion. And the Gorn warrior who fought Kirk is a hero in their culture. After all, the Federation DID pull out of that system. A Gorn win with very few casualties on their side. But in typical human fashion, the Federation paints it as a win for Kirk.

That's exactly what it was, an explanation for that it's…a bit convoluted, but there was really no easy way to explain it in-universe so that's fine.

Klingoff

Poor fan fiction. We never speak of STD.

@@Yroko I got herpes from watch that show. Thank you, I'm here all week!

Like earth there are several groups of klingon that look different from each other. Each group fell under a House like the various nations on earth have nations. Eventually through conquest of the various groups the klingon appearance stabalized over the generations to what you see in the shows and movies today.

@@thianraven1 yes but all humans are the same despite minor differences such as , color, shape. There are no purple skinned humans with cranial ridges and sensory organs on the side of their heads. How is it that Vulcans and romulans look the same no matter what the interation or timeline yet they have completely butchered something that has already been established as canonical. Good pov though. I appreciate it.

The misspell is weird way to take a jab at the US English lol. Thanks, doe.

Stop beating the dead horse Odo

I agree with you on Discovery. As far as I'm concerned, it is not canon. It doesn't make sense for the Vulcans to fire first. That is an illogical move. Firing first is something the Klingons would do. The Vulcans do their best to avoid conflict.

Amen brother!

@John James Ruthlessness is illogical. The Klingons respond to force with force. You attack them, you start a war. Vulcans are also pacifists and prefer peaceful solutions to violent ones. So their explanation is no explanation at all.