Klingon ship design really puts its neck out there

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Күн бұрын

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Like I said, I have no idea if this is canonical enough, mostly because I simply gave up searching. It's probably buried in some rulebook somewhere that never got fully transformed into OCR media for your intertubes, but whatever. You can believe it or not, as you like - I doubt the writers at Star Trek much care any more.
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0:00 Intro
0:55 Sponsored by Space Marines. Yes, really, actual space marines
2:53 Oh ‪@LazerPig‬ , where art thou?
3:32 On with the show

Пікірлер: 687

@Gordon519 Жыл бұрын

HONK QUAPLA

@SledgeOfHouseHammer Жыл бұрын

"roj" was never an option.

@DanteYuy Жыл бұрын

@@SledgeOfHouseHammer Experience HONK

@wojtek1274 Жыл бұрын

I legit guffawed at this.

@nerowulfee9210 Жыл бұрын

SS13\barotrauma, but with klingons.

@tsamoka6496 Жыл бұрын

Wait, that robot giving a thumbs up at 3:28, is that... Holy crap, did we just get a face reveal from the Dockmaster?! 🤣 =^x^=

@ArcturusMinsk Жыл бұрын

Anyone who has gone toe to toe with a Canada Goose knows that it is a ferocious and relentless opponent. Any pink blooded Klingon will tell you they'd be honored to have their ships resemble them.

@attila535 Жыл бұрын

You just need the right tool to deal with them, usually a leaf rake will do the job.

@nicholashodges201 Жыл бұрын

@@attila535 a foot works too in a pinch. Geese are @$$holes. But at least they aren't swans. Those suckers can actually kill a man...

@argokarrus2731 Жыл бұрын

Honestly true

@canadianbakin1304 Жыл бұрын

@@nicholashodges201 they hang out with the swans at toronto island as a team 🤣

@nicholashodges201 Жыл бұрын

@@canadianbakin1304 fortunately here the bodies of water are small enough you either get swans or geese, but not both

@kentlindal5422 Жыл бұрын

Interesting cultural difference. The Klingons must have taken one look at the Enterprise and thought "How top heavy is their command?"

@torinnbalasar6774 Жыл бұрын

They might be right, ever seen anybody lower rank than an ensign?😅

@warsprite1888 Жыл бұрын

@@torinnbalasar6774 Yes, the ever present Red Shirts, who all seem to die messily except in TNG. All of whom appear to be noteworthy enough to be listed as Engineering or Security Specialists who all appear to have the rank of Sergeant (alright, to whom do we blame the Sergeant hate in Star Trek? JW?).

@torinnbalasar6774 Жыл бұрын

@@warsprite1888 did they ever refer to any of them as sergeants? Pretty sure at a minimum anytime they interacted with crew outside of the command staff on the Enterprise in TOS, they were still ensigns.

@nightrunnerxm393 Жыл бұрын

@@torinnbalasar6774 Sure. Senior Chief Petty Officer Miles Edward O'Brien of Deep Space Nine, for one. He's an Non-Commissioned Officer (NCO). Even joked about having to call then-Cadet Nog "sir" when he graduated Starfleet Acadamy. Not to mention a number of "crewmen" aboard Voyager who apparently don't actually _have_ a rank, as such. They tended to die a lot, for some reason. The trouble is that we mostly follow the senior/command staff in the shows, and they're all career officers, so we _rarely_ see the NCOs or enlisted personnel that make the whole organization actually _function_ get featured all that prominently...they usually just get a nod from time to time, at best. My guess is that somebody wanted to "streamline" the organizational structure of Starfleet at one point, and everyone became an "officer" for a while--whether they actually held an officer's commission and rank or not.

@warsprite1888 Жыл бұрын

@@torinnbalasar6774 Yep, usually during services for them or in mentioning them afterwords. I'm thinking old star trek episodes here. But even if they didn't, a Specialist in the Military is usually one and I know they called them that on several different occasions which Implies one in the very least plus Star Fleet has always (supposedly) had non-coms (Non-Commissioned). Yep, Chief Petty Officer (CPO) or Petty Officer (PO) Is A Non-Com, usually in the Navy but in this case, a Space Navy so nightrunnerxm393 is right. Armies and Navy's also have Warrant Officers, a rank between True Officers and Non-Commissioned Officers (NCO's).

@harbl99 Жыл бұрын

Of course the Klingons put the bridge forward on an extended neck. That means the officers get first swing at the enemy that way. Makes perfect sense for a hierarchical warrior culture.

@robertb7293 Жыл бұрын

Drive me closer! I want to hit them with my bat'leth!

@AlanGChenery Жыл бұрын

Taking "drive me closer I want to hit them with my sword" to a whole new frontier.

@doctortimetv1577 Жыл бұрын

plus its overcompensating at its best if you follow the freudian model.

@Joe-Dead Жыл бұрын

leading from the front as every leader should! (and making sure their rear is well protected too)

@KertaDrake Жыл бұрын

First to battle, first to die gloriously in a last ditch ramming.

@atigerclaw Жыл бұрын

"It's not meant for human habitation." Klingon Officer: "I should hope not... We're Klingon."

@fuzzwork Жыл бұрын

Apparently Matt Jeffries labelled quite a few items in his tube and on the engineering set as "GNDN" which actually stood for "Goes nowhere, does nothing"

@jefferydaniels6717 Жыл бұрын

The old cannon was simple, they needed to get away from the radiation of the engine decks hence the long neck. Most modern naval warships are actually glass cannons as well.

@90lancaster Жыл бұрын

They are Klingons not Romulans so they might not feel the need to kill themselves and as such they could push the from section away as an escape pod and the back part as a "big bomb". & Klingons wouldn't really want to die due to an engineering accident that won't be very honorable way to die. So yeah "escape pod"

@TheSuperhomosapien Жыл бұрын

That neck is one hell of a defendable choke point if the ship is boarded.

@andrewszigeti2174 Жыл бұрын

Of course, with transporters it can work both ways. Transport into the area on the bridge side of the choke point and take it, now you can prevent marine reinforcements from coming to the bridge to contest your control.

@TheSuperhomosapien Жыл бұрын

@@andrewszigeti2174 In Klingon culture, your command crew will typically be your greatest warriors. They would have had to defend their positions at some time and be victorious to keep them, and would probably have to challenge a superior to gain their promotions. Forcing your enemies to attack your strongest warriors to gain control of the ship seems a very Klingon tactic.

@entropy11 Жыл бұрын

@@andrewszigeti2174 Aside from a couple of officers to maintain control, the Klingon "lower decks" as it were, aren't going to be combat troops (moreso than average for the KDF) and aren't going to have more than a few disruptor pistols for keeping order. The Warriors and Officers are the ones quartered up in the command bulb, and boarding the engineering section isn't going to do you much good if the bastards up front can just turn off the power, lifesupport, and gravity before disabling the radiation screens and laughing at you.

@CptJistuce Жыл бұрын

If the ship's being boarded, I think it is safe to say transporter countermeasures are no longer active. Boarding operations on Star Trek are very rarely done the old-fashioned way. Wasn't there something in that blueprint about a 5x21-person transporter room in the rear of the D7? I think two hundred transporter plates means they can put as many marines as they need into the head under those circumstances.

@thatstarwarsnerd6641 Жыл бұрын

As well as the reasons you stated, I’ve heard the boom was to keep the officers away from the warp nacelles spewing radiation everywhere, something that still works on the ships with thicker necks

@barrybend7189 Жыл бұрын

Actually thanks to the Khitomer accords that issue was solved. The K'tinga even got refits for those upgrades.

@39KHall Жыл бұрын

@@barrybend7189 That's interesting about Khitomer; I didn't know that. In the great John M. Ford (of happy memory) novel _The Final Reflection_ the problem had been solved much earlier. The protagonist (Cadet Vrenn tai-Khemara, later Captain Krenn tai-Rustazh) was jawing with his roommate, Engineering cadet Ruzhe Avell, during their cadet cruise into Romulan space. As Vrenn was beating the daylights out of Ruzhe in a game of _klin zha_ , Ruzhe said something like, "Sure you don't want to transfer to Engineering, do something with honest metal and current?" "No thanks," Vrenn replied, "I'd just as soon stay up here, away from the radiation." "There's no radiation! We just keep the Drell design* because it works!" "Okay, then, up here away from the Marines." 😁 *I assume the Drell design refers to the command and accommodation decks being up at the end of the boom, and also provides the "D" used in the ship classes back in the day (D6, D7 at the time of The Original Series; in the era of _The Final Reflection_ , the primary line cruiser was the D4).

@spacat1 Жыл бұрын

@@39KHall I loved that book!

@vp21ct Жыл бұрын

It should be noted, the long neck isn't so much of a weakness for a variety of reasons. 1) The ship's weapons are concentrated on it's forward arc. So the neck will seldom be presented. 2) Shields are really the primary 'armor' of the ship, so the neck isn't THAT much more vulnerable. In fact, its' smaller area might make the shields there stronger.

@Messametti Жыл бұрын

I would add an third point. If the enemy can destroy the neck the ship is done anyway because the shields are gone. It makes no real difference if the enemy is shooting at the neck or the reactor core.

@DrewLSsix Жыл бұрын

I keep pointing this out, we see consistently that when shields are down contemporary weapons amd even natural forces simply tear through these ships. Things have changed a bit with the armor introduced post TNG but for the vast majority of the fights we see the shield countdown is literally a timer that ends in death. Without shields a torpedo could penetrate several decks into any portion of that ship, so it's just not feasible to lay it out in a way that tries to protect itself with metal at the expense of whatever other concerns dictate the shape of the hull. We have seen a similar development in wet navies, ships steadily upped their armor for well over a century, from heavy wood ro iron cladding to WWII belted battleships and armored cruisers. But post WWII this all went away, weapons became accurate and powerful, we couldn't plausibly armor a ship enough to shake off cruise missiles and torpedoes. So we went to active defenses and electronic warfare, and our ships are practically paper thin now, favoring efficiency speed and range and depending entirely on modern technology.

@ThubanDraconis Жыл бұрын

Agreed. If your materials technology does not let you make things that can resist a hit from a 20 megaton antimatter torpedo then it doesn't make any sense to try to armor against that torpedo. You get hit anywhere and you are dead. And, On a real life Iowa class battleship they extended the bow our a couple hundred feet. You can see it in top down views. The front section in front of the guns is long and thin. There were a lot of downsides to this design decision but it was considered worth it because longer ships can go faster and they wanted that class of battleship to keep pace with the carriers. (Look up hull speed theory for more details.) We don't know how the technology of warp drive, particularly Klingon warp drives would work. It could be that this general outline made the Klingon ships better when traveling at warp. Magnetic fields get concentrated in a ferrite core, maybe warp fields get concentrated in matter somehow and so a boom was needed to get the warp field to form properly. Federation designs might also structure their warp fields so that saucer section was needed for maximum efficiency. (It's all fiction so we can make up whatever we like.)

@TarsonTalon Жыл бұрын

This is a stealth ship, no? Therefor, having a spindly design means you are harder to hit.

@sh4d0wfl4re Жыл бұрын

@@DrewLSsix honestly, it wasn't even that the ship armor shown in most star trek ships was weak prior to ablative armor's invention... it's just that even the tritanium alloys that the Borg used could have square kilometer sized chunks phasered away in seconds (tritanium resist's nadion radiation preventing the whole ship from being erased, and is notable amongst fantasy/scifi supermetals being in the upper third of them). As much as I like making fun of Star Wars ships for being as massive as they are compared to Star Trek, most of that bulk is so that they can endure space flight speeds even after shields go down for a moment. Star Trek hulls can endure speeds close to C, with impulse drives often going well above .2C, even atoms can cripple a ship at those speeds, yet Star Trek ships don't need particularly thick armor even when colliding with meter sized objects at "high impulse." Star Trek Armor is probably the main reason we know their phasers are bonkers levels of OP, as shielding is mostly kept relative to the phasers. www.quora.com/In-Star-Trek-just-how-fragile-are-the-Federation’s-starships-if-they-don’t-have-shields-After-all-their-hulls-are-aluminum arstechnica.com/science/2016/08/could-breakthrough-starshots-ships-survive-the-trip/

@davebignell773 Жыл бұрын

The old StarFleet Battles tabletop game had an interesting bit of lore - in their version the Klingon Empire used a lot of non-Klingon conscripts as crew members on their ships. As they weren't actual Klingons, they were viewed as expendable - and the Klingons had no compunctions about making this very clear to the conscripts. Hence the internal defences protecting the bridge and other critical sections of the ship against the inevitable mutinies by the conscripts, and the presence of the ships main armoury in the head section, along with quarters for both the officers and the internal security personnel/permanently assigned troops.

@jonguilt7789 Жыл бұрын

Whenever I think of separating/combining machines of this scale, all I can think of are all the tiny little clasps and seals that have to work perfectly every time, without fail.

@SacredCowShipyards Жыл бұрын

LEETLE FIDDLY BITS. So many points of failure. And so much stress imposed upon them even when they aren't actually, y'know, operating.

@alexanderglass2057 Жыл бұрын

@@SacredCowShipyards I could see the usefulness for doing that on medium scale craft, (KSP has taught me it's a really good design choice if you're trying to not kill anyone and have a janky untested craft, or you're going into regions of unpredictable physics), and just having structural breakaway points and vacuum sealing for the larger craft where rooms just become escape pods by themselves if the ship is hit with something strong enough to break the superstructure. Honestly settings where you have time manipulation or stasis of a sort, it would make sense to have every room be able to freeze time or activate a form of stasis for anyone occupying it in the case of a ship breakup. Have a beacon on every room, boom couple 100 year life pod. It would be like waking up from a coma, into a new economy, when rescued but hey at least they're alive.

@ravenkk4816 Жыл бұрын

@@SacredCowShipyards correct me if i am wrong, but i think Klingon use to have a Clan base military increase chance of this sort of things, the centralized professional military force of KDF exist only sorts after the original series. (And after the moon got blow up)

@kagato3 Жыл бұрын

@@SacredCowShipyards I'm fairly sure the separations on most of the ships were one time use only and if you need to use it well you were screwed anyway.

@KertaDrake Жыл бұрын

Honestly, even if it was one-time use separation with no recombining, it's really just adding weak points to your craft. A shot in the wrongs spot and you could have a partial disconnect where one section folds back and crashes into the other or starts rattling around violently.

@dragon1011dk Жыл бұрын

"He has to be incompetent. He has to have shown cowardice in the face of the enemies. He has to be a significant problem on the ship" You just described 100% of all the people I have hade so bosses....Weird, shit really float to the top.

@AquaticIdealist Жыл бұрын

"kicked upstairs", as the saying goes

@SacredCowShipyards Жыл бұрын

I believe your planet has referred to that as the "Peter Principle".

@sonofeyeabovealleffoff5462 Жыл бұрын

@@SacredCowShipyards Which Scott Adam's lampooned with the Dilbert Principle: "The basic concept of the Dilbert Principle is that the most ineffective workers are systematically moved to the place where they can do the least damage; management."

@randlebrowne2048 Жыл бұрын

@@SacredCowShipyards Could you have learned about the reason for the Klingon design from Starfleet Battles sourcebooks? I definitely remember reading this in one of their tabletop game sourcebooks years ago.

@glrasshopper Жыл бұрын

"Seems like having your ship falling apart is a bad thing." I just love the way you word things.

@waynecampeau4566 Жыл бұрын

I always assumed that the design was because the Klingon engineering section was not as well radiation shielded as the Federation and that it was largely unmanned. They were warships with over power reactors and the warp nacelles were too close for comfort or safety. Also that the crew compliment was smaller (about 1/5th?) that of a comparable sized Federation ship.

@SacredCowShipyards Жыл бұрын

Amusingly they were about as long as a Constitution-class and had about the same crew compliment.

@waynecampeau4566 Жыл бұрын

@@SacredCowShipyards I never really had a good idea of the crew compliment of the Klingon ships. The only time I can recall it being mentioned was in "Dave of the Dove" where they said mos of the Enterprises crew was trapped and not involved in the fighting. Kang said most of his crew was killed so we only saw a dozen or so Klingon's.

@graylinshowell7051 Жыл бұрын

An evening of discussing ships and drinking with Lazerpig and the Dockmaster from SCS would probably be great for my brain and terrifying for my liver.

@phluphie Жыл бұрын

Re: Mirror Universe, Chekhov did say nobody would question the death of a captain that disobeyed orders from Star Fleet. That kinda indicates, IMAO, that even in the Mirror Universe, you couldn’t just randomly kill superior officers.

@dolomaticus1180 Жыл бұрын

He has never met a Canadian Goose, cause IF the Dock-master had... the word stupid and that biological weapon would have never been in the same sentence. Those things are actual menaces to living being, including sometimes themselves!

@travisfoster1071 Жыл бұрын

Especially, when the goose has gosling, absolutely vicious...

@mandolinic Жыл бұрын

Not forgetting that a typical Canada goose craps a crap-load of the slimiest (er) crap each and every day. Far more effective than any banana skin for the unwary hiker. Really should be banned under some international bio-war convention.

@Reddotzebra Жыл бұрын

That is literally a decent description for how human memory works, yes. Not to mention that us squishy meatbags delete and then rewrite our memories every time we recall them, so it gets even more confusing.

@TheBigExclusive Жыл бұрын

In Star Trek Enterprise, they say the Klingon ship design is deceptive. That the front area (head/neck) of a Klingon ship is actually most armored and shielded.

@entropy11 Жыл бұрын

The neck is all strucural keel and armor, with enough space in the middle for a walkway. It's absolutely one of the toughest parts of the ship. You're not taking the command area of the ship by force if you're starting back in engineering. You're just not. This is essential given the KDF's use of impressed crew.

@radishdalek Жыл бұрын

I read somewhere that the whole extended neck and head section was sold to the Klingon people as "Commanders lead from the front". So when later designs had lower mutiny risk, the "command at the front" had become so ingrained, they still implemented keck and bridge head even when not needed. Another impact of "commanders lead from the front" was that later ships moved the captain's chair in front of all other consoles. All the captain can see is the viewscreen.

@randlebrowne2048 Жыл бұрын

At least in the old Starfleet Battles tabletop game, the Klingon Empire actually had large crews composed of various client races (effectively drafted slaves). This alien slave crew was prone to mutiny.

@EGRJ Жыл бұрын

I like how the Space Marine book cover looks like something airbrushed in the 80s.

@ricardokowalski1579 Жыл бұрын

lazerpig has started a chain reaction of goodwill that gives me hope👍

@jacobbronsky464 Жыл бұрын

Thanks to him I know League of Pigs now and my life is way better for it.

@warblerblue Жыл бұрын

The question to ask is: "Where did the Klingons store the tribbles?".

@SacredCowShipyards Жыл бұрын

In their tummies.

@larryfontenot9018 Жыл бұрын

IIRC, the idea that the neck on Klingon ships was a choke point for stopping mutineers was from one of the old pen-and-paper games. In that alternate version of Trek history, Klingon ships were crewed by subject races. The actual Klingons were the officers and made up a small percentage of the total crew. They stayed in the boom which could separate and had a sublight engine. In the case of a mutiny, the officers could escape in the boom and remotely detonate the primary hull.

@tenchraven Жыл бұрын

This actually makes a huge amount of sense. One of my What-Ifs is this: the Klingon Empire has hundreds of worlds, just like the UFP, so it must have many vassal races. So if on many ships you've got a crew that is mostly these vassals with a command crew of Klingons, you'd have rebellions. It may even be that the more loyal worlds along the the DMZ... I mean the Neutral Zone fielded ships with their own crews. They would have been export models with not quite cutting edge weapons and electronics, but the same hull and engines. The could have been Klingon officers, in the uniforms of their vassals and possibly even with cosmetic surgery, with these vessels. It explains the "we don't talk about it" brow ridges and why the great Klingon generals who'd danced with Kirk and came out of retirement for the Domionion war, now doesn't it. It also fits the Cold War paradigm.

@not_even_known_yet3167 Жыл бұрын

I really love that explanation.

@Ni999 Жыл бұрын

Or you could just go with the explanation in _Enterprise_ about the changes in appearances.

@weldonwin Жыл бұрын

This wasn't really a What-If, I think this more or less was cannon, that the Klingons had enslaved many other races and made use of them aboard their warships, typically as menial laborers to do all the crap-work aboard their ships while the actual warriors just focused on bashing one another's heads in and sticking a knife into the first back that's turned to them, while composing epic songs to boast about all the unarmed men women and children they so bravely slaughtered.

@Ni999 Жыл бұрын

@@weldonwin I think that was introduced in an old game.

@randlebrowne2048 Жыл бұрын

@@Ni999 Starfleet Battles tabletop game.

@barkingmonkee Жыл бұрын

The story I always heard as to why the engineering section of the D7 looked the way it did was the art director thought the ship would look more imposing if it looked like a manta ray.

@InternetGravedigger Жыл бұрын

Weird dog things... I'm guessing he's talking about targs?

@themcchuck8400 Жыл бұрын

All this is canon in Star Fleet Battles. Larger Klingon ships even have security stations in the aft hull, and if they are taken out in battle, there is a chance the crew will mutiny.

@KertaDrake Жыл бұрын

I could also see the whole thing being designed like like that explosive nose thing on the Defiant where you separate the boom and send the drive section flying into the enemy as a last-ditch attempt to win. Probably got phased out because Klingons are gonna Klingon and prefer just plunging the whole ship into the enemy rather than watching the fireworks from a distance.

@BOBXFILES2374a Жыл бұрын

"We want to see it up close, just before we go to Stovalkorr....."

@KellAnderson Жыл бұрын

Seeing you get a shoutout from the Pig was amazing. Congrats on that, dude. Well deserved.

@karistasogare Жыл бұрын

the reference you were looking for, is from the game Star Fleet Battles (circa 1970s) in it, the Klingons used 'servator' (slave) races as enlisted crew. they were confined to the 'engineering' section (much like those on British sailing ships were to the lower decks) Thus (as you surmised) the 'long neck' was to prevent officers being 'bothered' by crew men. also since 'Engine shielding' was minimal, it helped make sure those officers didn't suffer Rad poisoning. as for 'separation' that was as much for 'escaping' mutinous crew as it was for 'acting as a life boat' Oh BTW, re the Canada goose thing, funny thing if you watch the shadow of one landing, it looks almost exactly like a BoP on an attack run

@BOBXFILES2374a Жыл бұрын

Klingon Science Officer: "What is Engine Shielding?"

@reecewestmoreland6137 Жыл бұрын

i mean on the D7 it makes prefect sense to detach the boom from the main hull, as if the mutineers try do to the very Klingon thing of "If i can't have it neither can you, and I'm going to take you with me" and i don't know detonate the wrap core then being able to get the hull out of their makes sense.

@Reddotzebra Жыл бұрын

The disruptors do have lethal settings below disintegration, but in that situation the officers probably wouldn't be using them.

@jamesnabors3643 Жыл бұрын

If a ship is firing at the Klingon vessel from any direction other than into its front, the Klingon captain made a mistake. Klingon ships are made to come up behind up and obliterate you from the tail pipe forward. That neck is just more incentive to use the ship correctly.

@MeNoOther Жыл бұрын

The Klingons were kind of like the Stargate Goa'uld. They had House's run by a feudal society.

@jlvfr Жыл бұрын

Klingon BOP and the D7 are my favourite ST ships. I've allways found their designs to be awesome: a true "in your face" model.

@giladpellaeon1691 Жыл бұрын

I saw that LazerPig vid and was thrilled when he recommended you. (In the voice of Dr. Zoidberg) "Maybe you guys should do a crossover?"

@canadianbakin1304 Жыл бұрын

you can diss the Canadian goose all you want until you actually have a face off with one that has no regard for his/her own safety and only wants to fight you

@CarburetorThompson Жыл бұрын

“If I knew how I know everything I know, I’d only be able to know half as much as I do” - David Mitchell

@SacredCowShipyards Жыл бұрын

Right? Storing the full source history of your information you know takes up a lot more space than just the information itself, so... why bother?

@tarmaque Жыл бұрын

@@SacredCowShipyards Unless you have something like, you know, a full sub-space dimension entangled with your main processing unit specifically for information storage. I hear it can get very hot in there, so probably you'd want a second subspace dimension in which to shunt the heat.

@Krahazik Жыл бұрын

as to a modular design (not necessarily separable in flight), can make replacing parts (like whole nacelle assemblies) a lot easier when you can just detach the module and attach the new one. As to your reasoning behind the Klingon necks, it does make a lot of sense considering the nature of the culture. As to the separating head, also makes a bit of sense, propulsion system (at the back) is critically damaged, crew is mad, eject the whole darn nose and your good, assuming the circumstances are just right so the action is not considered cowardly. Klingons are a bit finicky about that.

@davidedens6353 Жыл бұрын

The corroboration you are looking for is from both Starfleet Battles and the Fasa RPG. Both were once considered to be way more cannon back in their day then they are today. There may have also been references to this during the golden age of trek novels but I can't quite recall any specifics. Oh and the D7 is based on a Manta Ray; hence the 2 tone paint job. Later Romulan ships are the ones based on Canardian Geese.

@DarthBoolean Жыл бұрын

Just found a year old comment on the D7 video from Spacedock saying the same theory and citing Starfleet Battles.

@davidedens6353 Жыл бұрын

@@DarthBoolean Its not a theory. Both game systems list security stations through out the ship who's stated purpose is to prevent or put down mutinies. Starfleet Battles also has mixed race crews on Klingon ships made up of Klingons and their subject races. I don't remember if Fasa has mixed race crews. I own a considerable amount of SFBs and Fasa source material.

@markfergerson2145 Жыл бұрын

My laptop with a pdf of the not-even-slightly-canon Bird Of Prey Owner’s Manual is kinda dead at the moment so I can’t check but I vaguely remember this being mentioned in it. The Klingon design aesthetic is so extreme function-drives-form that it makes Brutalist architecture look positively rococo. The long necks on their ships aren’t there because they look cool, and your rede makes more sense than the usual “escape capsule in case of impending warp core breach” which is a pretty low bar.

@mortyjhones4068 Жыл бұрын

It is cannon about the seperation. In one of the fleat comand games it give the real resion as that the D7's engines where improperly shielded (somthing that would plage klingon Capitol ship desines) and radeation fatalities amoung the lower decks crew where common. Also the fact that the crews where often made of the press ganged and consript's also didn't help. Hence all the mutanies and crew rebelions.

@sststr Жыл бұрын

I can see two uses for separable sections of the ship: first, and this is universally applicable, if there's some slow-building trouble with the engine that you can't fix and is going to result in a big boom, the separable section of the ship becomes something of a life pod, letting the crew in it put some space between themselves and the boom. Whether it will be enough space to save them will vary by circumstance, but at least it gives them a chance. Second, and this is more applicable to the Klingon ships, if somehow the mutineers are winning, the officers can detach the head to keep more mutineers from reaching the bridge. And even if the mutineers end up winning, by the time that happens they might well be millions of kilometers away from the rear section with little to no propulsion, and the rear section presumably has little to no navigational ability, so the mutineers gain nothing from their victory, other than I suppose the satisfaction of killing the officers who were causing them so much grief. But it denies them a fully functional ship, so they are kind of stuck until another Klingon ship comes along, and then there will be hell to pay for mutinying in the first place.

@richdurbin6146 Жыл бұрын

Since ST ships were powered by anti-matter, which can produce a really big boom, maybe being able to break off large chunks of your ship and run isn’t such a bad idea.

@randlebrowne2048 Жыл бұрын

Especially given that ships of this era were supposedly on long range missions. Small escape pods would run out of air before help arrived.

@stephenlightfoot9627 Жыл бұрын

I originally saw this point made in the notes for a board game called Star Fleet Battles which was only based on the original series and has it's own voluminous lore.

@kamaeq Жыл бұрын

Actually it had the lore up through the first movie or two. This included a LOT of Gene Roddenberry approved lore, both backstory and future. And just like Brian Herbert's "Dune", Disney's Star Wars "Legends", and GW's frequent retcons of 40k; it all got urinated on by the new design team when TNG was launched, although TNG had a few surprising throwbacks to the original lore. There were also fun tidbits in the discarded lore, like the reason the Enterprise was sent to steal the later Romulan cloaking device was because Scotty was the first officer that Kirk "acquired" during his career and met when Kirk was a senior grade Navy LT put in command of the FEDERATION cloaking device research program, which was shelved again after the energy costs were still found to be too high for the tactical advantage. Which was why the Romulan's used the D6 instead of the D7 Klingon ships. However, the stellar geography, racial makeup and such got tossed, including key plot points like the Organians, origin of the Tholians, the Gorn and Kzinti empires, etc. IMO, the SFB universe is much more fun and I'd love to one day get back into it, especially a well done expanded Federation and Empire strategic game.

@ailius1520 Жыл бұрын

The problem with the shooting gallery is it works *both* ways. The officers can't cross the neck to subdue the crew either. So the mutiny would become one long standoff until whichever side has access the the shuttle bay or transporter pads is able to get reinforcement. And as this video pointed out, they have 5 very big transporter pads all in the *back* of the ship, so the crew wins the mutiny.

@nobodyimportant5417 Жыл бұрын

Ah, but the bridge controls life support, and more importantly, the airlocks.

@ailius1520 Жыл бұрын

@@nobodyimportant5417 Unless the plot says engineering controls those things.

@nobodyimportant5417 Жыл бұрын

@@ailius1520 Well, thats 100% star trek fair.

@DrewLSsix Жыл бұрын

You can't have a standoff when one side has the advantage. The reason the mutiniers want the bridge is to take control, staying where they are means they lack control and will fall relatively quickly.

@SacredCowShipyards Жыл бұрын

Guess who controls the transporter system? And the "shooting gallery" only works both ways if its surface area is the same, which it is not.

@trevynlane8094 Жыл бұрын

It is mentioned a lot in beta cannon and some Star Trek RPG/board games about the mutiny thing. I believe Star Fleet Battles canonized it.

@RamosLuis2550 Жыл бұрын

the separation of the sauser on the Conny was meant to be a lifeboat and could land (once) on a planet, there are 2 strutes you can see on the underside of good models and drawings the third strut was the conecting pilon

@DrewLSsix Жыл бұрын

That was originally a fan theory that was retroactively uh... retconned by Jefferies and is still not canonical.

@ericwilner1403 Жыл бұрын

Oh, great - another book in the queue! I kind of assumed the long neck would be to keep personnel separated from the high-energy stuff, but that doesn't fit with the enlisted quarters being in the high-energy area - unless it's only protecting the important personnel, and those of low status are of no concern to the ship's designers. (Been a while since I watched any Trek, but now I'm vaguely recalling a big weapon being in the front section, unless that was the Romulans - which implies not just having high-energy stuff in the front, but transmitting lots of power to it through the neck. I definitely remember that Federation ships stupidly had high-energy stuff on the freakin' bridge, just waiting to blow up in people's faces.)

@stevenhanly4412 Жыл бұрын

In the tabletop game Star Fleet Battles (based upon TOS) the Klingon ships had Security Stations on their Ship Systems Displays (the "character sheet" for a ship), located at the base of the boom (I think...I haven't played the game since the late 80's, and my memory is crap). This was to help control the slaves that Klingons had on their ships. Although they would work to prevent mutinies as well.

@MichaelLlaneza Жыл бұрын

SFB also had the boom being detachable. Impulse only for twin-engined ships, warp capable for ships with a third or fourth nacelle. And let's be pedantic. SFB isn't based on TOS, it's based on the Star Trek Technical Manual from Franz Joseph Designs, which actually was licensed from TOS. Paramount left that license open for sublicensing. And that's how we got a tabletop Star Trek game made by professional engineers, corporate attorneys, and railroad executives, aka the fussiest people on the planet and boy howdy did the rules reflect that.

@boobah5643 Жыл бұрын

@@MichaelLlaneza _Star Fleet Battles'_ version of the D7 wasn't based on the _Star Trek Technical Manual_ because that book didn't really cover anything beyond Star Fleet; it was based on a fan blueprint that one of the creators picked up at a con, and technically that blueprint was for what _SFB_ called the D6, with the D7 adding a couple phaser banks to cover a glaring weakness in the blueprints' design.

@christophernemeth421 Жыл бұрын

I remember that as well, that the Klingons used slave warriors from the planets they conquered

@MichaelLlaneza Жыл бұрын

@@boobah5643 True, I was talking narrowly about their license being a sub of FJD's.

@MD2389 Жыл бұрын

Technically the design of the D-7/K'Tinga ships would also possibly give them a tighter turning radius, because of the thruster modules on the forward section. That could give them an edge in combat when fighting their UFP foes!

@dmcarpenter2470 Жыл бұрын

I will pick up a copy of the Space Marine book. On the plans, I noted a 'Large Weapon Arsonal' (yes, Arsonal), portside, outboard of the Large transporters. I suppose that is where they stored the heavy flamers. Don't get me started on the seemingly random use of terms such as Destroyer, Cruiser, Dreadnought, Frigate, Corvette and Battlecruiser by SciFi, regardless of size, and mission. Good vid.

@TheRyujinLP Жыл бұрын

This terminology isn't as consistent IRL either heh. From WWII to the mid 70's for the US a Frigate was a warship smaller then a cruiser but *bigger* then a destroyer. That's why in some games from the 70's or early 80's have have frigates outclass destroyers (see Warhammer 40k). There's the fact that these are gonna get even more muddled when we start building space warships, hell what makes a ship a given type is muddled today. The Zumwalt class is the size of WW I battleships but is classed as a destroyer. Then when you get other races or militaries that aren't based on modern earth... well yeah. This level of inconsistency is pretty much a feature and not a bug.

@dmcarpenter2470 Жыл бұрын

@@TheRyujinLP I am well aware, but did not mention, out of concern for the Dockmaster's internal pressure.

@kieranh2005 Жыл бұрын

I like the Honor Harrington series. Fairly consistent in their warship classifications.

@brentwalker9576 Жыл бұрын

“Like gunning down mutineers (in a command hallway)”, a Klingon expression for an action one wishes hadn’t been necessary, but that refusing to do would have ended in dishonorable death. Often used instead of the expression “like slaughtering the Targ for the feast” to indicate an outcome resulting from oversight rather than intentional planning.

@barrybend7189 Жыл бұрын

I fly one in STO it's a really good design. Also honorable mention to the Khitomer class which brings an early Enterprise Jefferies concept to life.

@blockmasterscott Жыл бұрын

Wow, I did not know that STO had a player owned version of the D7!

@barrybend7189 Жыл бұрын

@@blockmasterscott yeah there's a progression freebie and a Legendary T6 in the Captain bundle for the KDF. The Legendary one comes with the Stasis field generator from TAS more Tribbles more trouble. There's also the Kelvin timeline, Discovery and Temporal versions.

@blockmasterscott Жыл бұрын

@@barrybend7189 Oh cool, there’s a SFG in STO! I learned about the SFG from a late 70s game called Star Fleet Battles lol.

@widgren87 Жыл бұрын

Hmm... those long "necks" really remind me of the Event Horizon and the Klingons should really be thankful that their only has a similar profile and not the same drive. And now I made myself think of Khornate Klingons... The places my head goes to.

@patrickkenyon2326 Жыл бұрын

Blood for the Blood God, Qua'Plah!

@jimskywaker4345 Жыл бұрын

The event horizon certainly looks klingon, but i'm pretty sure the D7 came first.

@widgren87 Жыл бұрын

@@jimskywaker4345 True, but I saw Event Horizon first so it is always the first thing in my head when I see any similar designs.

@Scudboy17 Жыл бұрын

If you want a good resource on specifics of any and all Star Trek ships look up the Star Fleet Battles table top strategy game. Its was unbelievably detailed in its details and design specs on the ships. A friend of mine you to teach classes on how to play the game, it was that complicated.

@SiriusMined Жыл бұрын

The layout also alllows wide arcs of fire to all size of the ship

@phluphie Жыл бұрын

Ugh... I need to get chores done and then I see you post this. Thanks,

@phluphie Жыл бұрын

OK. No. I'm going to save this for dinner.

@SacredCowShipyards Жыл бұрын

Well?

@phluphie Жыл бұрын

@@SacredCowShipyards What I’ve come to expect. An enjoyable rundown of one of my favorite starships. Thanks.

@phluphie Жыл бұрын

@@SacredCowShipyards I knew about the lifeboat option. But I had never heard about the anti-mutiny purpose of the neck. That’s cool

@brianzmek7272 Жыл бұрын

If it makes the dock master feel better I also recall the same detail without a source

@warblerblue Жыл бұрын

Bumper sticker on the back of the Klingon Cruiser: I honk for Canadian Geese.

@SacredCowShipyards Жыл бұрын

"And they honk back."

@TheIrishTexan Жыл бұрын

The separation of hulls on ships could work well if you're boarded. Assuming you're able to push the boarders into one hull, you can separate the hulls and warp off to safety or shoot back at the other hull and hope the enemy doesn't have a chance to get to that hull's weapon and shield controls before you open fire. Or like seen in TNG, you can evacuate sick, wounded, civilians etc. into one hull and have them escape the battlefield while the other hull holds the enemy off or acts as a decoy. In certain emergencies, the section with the stronger engines can likely also be used as a tug, connecting to and towing vessels too big to be aided by tractor beams. If you think about the concept for a long time, you can start to see a decent number of ways that modular, separable hulls could be very useful.

@afoolandhismoneychannel Жыл бұрын

The idea that any Star Trek universe ship could be threatened by a boarding party is ridiculous when you consider that anyone on board of a ship can be transported anywhere at any time... the second a ship is boarded, the aggressors could immediately be transported into the brig... or into space... or held in the buffer in a virtual brig. Of course this would make for less action for the fans to consume, right?

@TheIrishTexan Жыл бұрын

@@afoolandhismoneychannel I'm sure that if we're lookin at universe where transporters are as effective and common as they are, there's likely rules similar to a Geneva Conventions in place that stop things like that from happening. That, and transporter R&D groups probably have figured out various workarounds and failsafes and other countermeasures to prevent that from happening. Especially for military issue transporters.

@z3r0_35 Жыл бұрын

iirc the boom has another purpose on the D7 in particular: it's more or less the barrel of a great big coil gun hooked up to the fore photon torpedo launcher, allowing projectiles to pick up significantly greater velocity. This was important as the favorite weapon of the 23rd Century Klingon Imperial Starfleet was the photon torpedo, with the disruptor being very much a secondary weapon for softening up a target's shield for a killshot with a torpedo.

@SacredCowShipyards Жыл бұрын

There's a lot of comments to that effect, but there's no canonical evidence I could find. It doesn't help that, depending on the ship, it was the photon torpedo launcher, stasis beam generator, disruptor, or navigational deflector.

@Xtra_Medium Жыл бұрын

Neat I always thought the bird ascetic was just a legacy of early Klingon-Romulan collaboration Kinda like how Indian and Chinese weapons still have very Russian ascetics as a legacy of Soviet collaboration

@MichaelLlaneza Жыл бұрын

I've heard they actually managed to break or lose the original Romulan Warbird model so they re-used the D7. Then to come full circle, the 3rd movie had a leak about Romuans being the bad guys and the producers had a non-sacred cow and changed them to Klingons. Since this was after they'd built the bird of prey model, they went with that and Klingons got cloaking devices.

@Sgtnolisten Жыл бұрын

“You’re going to buy the book, right?” Sure! Is it in audiobook?

@SacredCowShipyards Жыл бұрын

Well, I know a guy...

@Sgtnolisten Жыл бұрын

@@SacredCowShipyards shit, if that actually happens I will gladly pay. KZfaq and audiobooks are how I stay sane on the job

@firefalcon100 Жыл бұрын

also, i believe originally the neck section could detach as an escape pod from the rest of the ship saving the officers if they need to. Though i imagine this is no longer the case and it's retconned itself to say that klingons go down with the ship

@SacredCowShipyards Жыл бұрын

We know who didn't finish the episode before commenting.

@DrewLSsix Жыл бұрын

Klingons have never been consistent lol, they both take prisoners and don't take prisoners, so who knows what they would choose to do.

@Typhonis007 Жыл бұрын

Fun fact, originally the Klingon Bird of Prey was a design that the Klingon and Romulan empires worked together on. In the Star Trek 3 movie it was also supposed to be stolen by the Klingon Christopher Loyd played.

@boobah5643 Жыл бұрын

It was my understanding that it was originally supposed to be a Romulan ship, full stop, and retained the name and cloak when they decided that Klingons worked better than Romulans for the story.

@Typhonis007 Жыл бұрын

@@boobah5643 That was the In Universe reason given. The Klingons and Romulans exchanged technologies between Season 2 of TOS and the Movie era. You can see part of it when the Romulans used D-7 hulls in one episode.

@entropy11 Жыл бұрын

@@Typhonis007 Lend-lease D7s. With the high-end disruptors and long-barrel photon torpedo launcher removed of course. Romulans had to refit them with their own weapons, and a plasma torpedo that was somewhat less threatening than the BoP's purpose built heavy launcher.

@patrickkenyon2326 Жыл бұрын

I have seen Canada Geese attack an 18 wheeler. They know no fear. Only anger.

@AmishPaladin Жыл бұрын

For the honor of the Empire!

@SeithonJetter Жыл бұрын

I would suspect the modularity in universe could be explained by a desire to be able to easily overhaul/separate out ships components that have been damaged in conflict. Nacelle's wrecked? Pop it into dry dock, whip off the engine parts and slap on a new one and its good to go.

@andreamagni8017 Жыл бұрын

Fun fact. I was subscribed to SCS for a while, and from one to his video youtube suggested me a Lazerpig video. Now it's gone full circle.

@Cheshire020 Жыл бұрын

Never underestimate a Canada Goose. They'll mess you up if they get the chance.

@krakenpots5693 Жыл бұрын

I was very happy LP chose to promote you!!!

@spaceengineeringempire4086 Жыл бұрын

So to sum up the reasons for the Klingon ship design. 1: the command crew is in the head with a neck away from the body to protect against mutiny’s 2: it protects the command crew from the warp core and the radiation it emits. 3: it is ment to make your subordinates to trust you and to follow you cause your the first in battle and the first to die. 4: you are forced to be smart in your ships placement cause forward facing weapon. 5: if the engineering deck is destroyed the bridge can be used as a life boat.

@m3w 11 ай бұрын

This is great - thank you for the (future?) history and thoughtful ideas!

@richardjames6947 Жыл бұрын

I was told by a Star Trek TOS writer that she was told by the designer that the officers and important ship crew were in the front away from the engines, and the military soldiers were in the back, because engine radiation was higher there. She did state immediately afterwards that there was a lot of kidding around and she isn't sure if what she was told was the truth. Good episode.

@thepissoff10 Жыл бұрын

In Star Fleet Battles, the added security and whole boom seperation things was used because the Klingons crewed there ships with conscripts from the planets they conquered. Thus when the mutiny broke out, if it wasn't quashed, the klingons could gather in the boom, sperate it and fly off. Seperation also knocked the warp drives off line due to some mass imbalance. BUT that's all from Star Fleet Battles, not Star Trek so......

@uroghai3439 Жыл бұрын

I remember "Spot the Space Marine."

@TycoonTitian01 Жыл бұрын

Honestly pretty funny situation that I already watched both this channel and Lazerpig when he made that video

@williamhare4456 Жыл бұрын

On a Klingon warship when a crew mutinies the captain order the turbo lift shut down and the squeeze ways guarded. A few hours later the captain hears the sound of teleportation, as one hundred and five mutineers teleport into the head section of the ship bypassing the choke points.

@alexanderglass2057 Жыл бұрын

those must have a shut off that the bridge accesses and only the bridge can turn it back on.

@entropy11 Жыл бұрын

Bold of you to assume there are any transporters in that section of the ship.

@SacredCowShipyards Жыл бұрын

Guess where the master switch for not just the turbolifts was?

@williamhare4456 Жыл бұрын

The “few hours” the mutineers where not assaulting the neck they were over riding the bridge’s control over the teleport.

@jwb_666 Жыл бұрын

GW has to be the BIGGEST AHOLES out there I'm still bitter about TTS and it's been 3 years

@carlborg8023 Жыл бұрын

The sheer gall, they literally ripped everything they have from something else, Space marines in particular were an existing trope that they latched onto. Their legal team must be some of the most detached, imbecilic fools ever. And TTS was by far the best advertising they ever had. And it cost them nothing.

@travisbishop782 Жыл бұрын

Wotc is giving them a run for their money.

@teddyd633 Жыл бұрын

LazerPig and a Sacred Cow colab, oh how my worlds collide!!

@eaglestrike426 Жыл бұрын

I don't see it noted here in top comments, but to add to your comments. The BoP was not originally a Klingon design (IRL) but was going to be a Romulan ship stolen by the Klingons in early drafts of Search for Spock. This got changed in the end, but design didn't (hence the slight feathering on the wings and why it had a cloak). However, we know that in part of cannon (and certainly back in the beta cannon stuff) there was a short lived tech exchange from the Klingons and Romulans, where D7s were given to the Romulans and supposedly that's where the Klingons got their cloak from. It's very easy to say that if the early (small scale/crew) BoP was some example of this tech exchange, or the original stolen ship concept, why it would be missing this "Feature", beyond the lessened need with a crew of 12 or so. This all said, yeah... totally makes sense for TOS era Klingons. If not for their enlisted, than for those forced to server on their ships.

@mikehenthorn1778 Жыл бұрын

Every time i see the cuber in the imtro i can hear Ellie from borderlands saying " i tuned up the crusher i think it can crush a star into a black hole now "

@muninrob Жыл бұрын

I think your "missing" source material is either the Star Fleet Battles board game by Amarrillo Design Bureau (particularly the parts about boarding actions), or the Star Fleet Battles video games based on it. Klingon warships are crewed by prisoners and conscripts, with the officers & marines being Klingons. The Klingon detachable bridge actually had a VERY good reason - all of the communications, navigation, life support controls and computers are in the bridge. In the case of losing the ship in a mutiny, the Klingons would kill the main section's life support and fly off for a few days while the slaves & conscripts die off - then re-attach & limp back home for a new crew of slaves, prisoners and conscripts.

@76TomD Жыл бұрын

Old tech manuals stated the fore section after the boom was in case of emergenices could be jettisoned. Also kept the officers away from the engineering section that supposedly had less shielding from the engines. Lesser officers spent most of their time in the after engineering section

@adam346 Жыл бұрын

she donned the black carapace of the legal system, the ceramite power armor of a lawyer, the Bolter of legal motions and took down the floating Space Hulk that is Warhammer Studios.

@franksmedley7372 Жыл бұрын

Hello SCS Yes, I too have that memory that is not really a memory. And I too 'knew' about the whole 'defensible against mutiny' reasoning, as well as the fact that the boom and command module were detachable. I also knew that the Constitution class saucer was designed to detach to become a 'lifeboat' as well. At least with the 'Connie', when the saucer detached, it still had its primary Impulse Drives attached. And, like so many other kids that watched the show, my brother and I had models of the D7 and the Constitution class hanging from the ceiling of our bedroom, along with the obligatory posters and pictures of various members of the crew of the Enterprise.

@Reddotzebra Жыл бұрын

I always thought Targs looked more boar-like but since the Federation response to the first one shown on screen was that it was a cat-like pet... I guess "weird dog" also works.

@mowgli2071 Жыл бұрын

This episode's sponsor is one of the best sponsors

@daniel_f4050 Жыл бұрын

I think that information might, maybe, possibly, be from FASA’s Klingon Ship Recognition Guide. I also seem to remember that even way back in the early days of Star Fleet Battles the D7 had a single box impulse engine in the boom for the life boat concept and that must have come from the even earlier Franz Joseph Designs material.

@PsychedelicChameleon Жыл бұрын

I have a vague memory of reading in the late '70s or early '80s that the Klingons' overall technology was slightly behind the Federation and Romulans (because they are not particularly interested in science), but that their empire made up for that with lots of adaptations: their engines produced some radiation that was dangerous in the long run, and the long neck of the ship is to keep the officers' exposures to radiation minimal. The crew can suck it. Also, those large diagonal things within the ship that look like shock absorbers are actual shock absorbers to reduce the structural stress and damage when their ships are hit in combat.

@mowgli2071 Жыл бұрын

My big question over the years has been why they don't put cargo clamps on the "neck". They could haul around a lot of supplies that way. "...professionals talk about logistics", etc.

@brianhiles8164 Жыл бұрын

(16:40) “Please be advised that any ship left on the dock for more than 24 hours will be compressed to a cube at the owner´s expense.“ _Cube_ *=>* _hypercube._ Thank you for your cooperation.

@Binidj Жыл бұрын

I have always loved the D7 and D9 designs, they appeal to my sense of aesthetics.

@molybdaen11 Жыл бұрын

This only works if no one on the bridge is rebelling and they have to know that the crew is comming. Usually you dont scream your intentions into the next microphone ...

@DBresien Жыл бұрын

If memory serves. . . D-6/7 was designed to separate as stated in the video. Con class ships could separate the saucer by shearing the connecting structure. The saucer could house all of the crew and the impulse engines and auxiliary power reactors were housed in the saucer. Btw. Klingons did not have Klingon cloaking devices on the D-6/7 class. They had a handful Romulan cloaking devices which were presumably later reverse engineered and added to later ship classes. In return the Romulans got a few warp capable D-6 hulls, and again reverse engineered warp tech.

@SacredCowShipyards Жыл бұрын

Interestingly, there was a tech exchange of the D-7 to the Romulan empire that included the latter providing cloaks to the Klingons which were eventually mounted on their D-7s.