If I learned anything from tekken 7 online it’s that the majority of law players refuse to adapt or change their options, so this probably won’t matter for 50% of the law player base lmao

Can't wait for the TheMainManSWE voice mods for Law 😂

The age of modern controls.

Figthing games really don't need to dumb down characters, they just need a proper tutorial.

The 10 players who actually did those old inputs consistently won't buy 3.000.000 copies of the game first day.

He got Strived basically lol. This is what strive did to all the returning characters. Remove, remove, remove, everyone should be able to do absolutely everything within 10mins

The newer DSS should do less damage and have worse frame data, the “blue spark” / old version should yield more rewards in terms of dmg and frame data. That way it benefits eveyone at all skill levels

Watch them give all the 'old-school' difficult Law inputs and gameplan to Shaheen, and that's where all the old-school players go.

Can't wait to see how many changes are made from the CNT to release.

It would be really cool if Law's pose before he does the Heat Burst is the same as his Game of Death poster pose. The pose he has now looks like he's doing a normal ki charge. I would like to see him using a nunchaku as his Heat Burst as well.

casualization is totally not a slippery slope and is always worth it guys.

They didn't just remove dss, they removed a sense of progress. The time u finally get that 4,3 dss f4 combo ender, once you do more that 1 dss in combos, your first ws4 pressure, ur first ws4 dss3+4 launch in real match, the feeling that you can do it constantly, doing some sick combos, that you thought you could never do. New law playes like any other tekken char, old law was something special, unique. But i quess putting any effort into playing characters is an older game thing. So i guess that asuka with nunchaks is cool to

dam they gave law the street fighter treatment..........

What a slap in the face! It took me 5 months to get his DSS down and I'm betting Lee's Mist step is dumb down too. I still hope the sense of reward will still be there though

I started playing law half a year ago, and it breaks my heart seeing these changes. Learning dss cancels in pressure and combo situastions has been so rewarding.

Seriously if they wanted to make this legacy stuff easier just put it in the assist tool. So lame they did this

"B-but making him easier will grow the fgc" -every green rank projecting

they have done similar things with kazuya I was surprised at some of the things that have no execution required and have been added to auto crouch extensions. I agree that removing execution is actually a bad thing it means you can't put really op stuff behind an execution barrier. It also add more tension to a match and yomi layers because of the potential of drops especially if the missed input can result in a huge reward for your opponent.

As a veteran Law main since Tekken 2 thats taken SERIOUS pride in instant dss execution for years, this hurts my soul to the very core 😔😮‍💨 DAMN it Namco

its a shame. cause this is the best he's ever looked. and compared to 7 he has so much more depth. i just wish that depth coulda be excessed with execution in mind. cause now he will be balanced as an easy mode character.

Such a shame.. I played t2 and t3 when I was a kid with my friends, we had no idea how deep this rabbit hole went. My next one was T7, and down the line I started to appreciate it more and more for it's complex mechanics, and tough execution. It's really a masterpiece when it comes to fighting games. Playing t8 beta I realized so many strange aspects; the sound effects, the hits sparks, the simplified execution, the heat dash smash hasj whatever.. Like you said mainman, The game is insanely less expressive.. Shame

I am a law main. Man I miss the old DSS. Thank you for bringing attention to this, MMS. I really hope they change it back to its old form later on.

I'm a casual player and I think they shouldn't remove the execution barriers on any characters. I personally think it's one of the charm in seeing tournament/high level matches. In Tekken 7, when a King landed a crouch dash into instant shining wizard, it makes me amazed even though I was rooting for the opponent. On other case, when I see someone landed Law staple combo into iws+4, dss, to legend kick, it makes me hyped up even though I'm the opponent. Execution barrier creates a lot of dynamics that make the game more interesting in long run. Making the game more accessible is not about removing them, but not punishing low execution people too hard for choosing high execution character.

I love this argument here "Well what's wrong with making everything easy to do I mean the game should just be about mindgames right?" The question I must ask these people. Why are you playing videogames? Why don't you go play chess? If you hate execution why are you even playing a fighting game? Don't you just want to play "mindgames" so go learn how to play cards or learn chess. I was a shooter player for the majority of my life. The increased casualization in shooter type games eventually forced me to migrate over to fighting games in the mid 2010s. Now I see the same pattern emerging within fighting games. I'm sick of watching crybabies that don't have the dedication or skill necessary to accomplish thing coopt entire game genres, ruin what made those games special, then eventually like they always do migrate over to something else and then ruin that as well. These people just want easy quick fast food satisfaction. It's like these people want to walk into a boxing gym and then want to be Mike Tyson in 1 week this mindset is poison.

I totally understand what you're saying being a tekken player for 10+ years but the people who appreciate law's dss execution are like only the top players and the tekken team is obviously trying to make a more commercial game now because they want it to do good business so it doesn't go to the brink of death again like after tekken 6 and tag 2. So if they are trying to have more people play it by releasing it on playstation and steam etc then they will obviously have to dumb it down for that level of players to be able to do some cool shit in the game you know. They are not releasing it in the arcades first for just the Tekken community anymore, they are making huge changes to have tekken do good business and make it good for both tekken nerds and general people. As bad as these changes might seem, they are doing a damn good job by keeping the tekken nerds mostly happy and at the same time making the game more exciting for general public. So we should appreciate it because if the game does well in general, it gets better for everybody.

As a Lee main who only started playing Tekken in T7 season 4, I love the execution in this game. I understand wanting to make things easier, but this makes me sad. Why can't they do something like Jin and Kazuya, where they can do easy mode electrics in heat, but it consumes heat? Please don't dumb down Lei Chaobla like this

The slide is a welcome change. The input was borderline telegraphed previously

The equivalent of this is when kazuya wave dash became just a forward, forward input

Anyone on the beta? Thoughts on Bryan? I got up to Cavalry, but I'm not sure what to make of him.

I kind of understand this, but I still wish we had the option to do the classic input for more damage or whatever. They did the same thing with Xiaoyu’s ‘cross-lifting palms’ launcher.; it used to be df1~2 and was changed to b1+2. The only difference is, Xiaoyu players can still use the old input if they want. In Tekken 7, df1~2 required precise timing to punish certain moves and to launch people for doing specific wake-ups in specific scenarios, like Xiao’s df2+4 snapmare grab. With that said, I don’t see much of a problem with changing Law’s DSS, as long as they keep the classic input in the game for blue-sparks and/or raw extra damage. I’m not a Law player, but I have quite a few characters in blue-ranks. So, when I heard from RIP that the DSS input is gone, I looked up some DSS tutorials and tried out the input for myself. The verdict: If you have solid fundamentals and you spend some time playing matches with Law, you shouldn’t have a problem doing all of the hard DSS stuff in Tekken 7 with a little bit of practice.

Watching MainMan makes me nostalgic. Can not wait for T8 and all the new content it will create.

Im scared for lee...

removing skill limits like this is very dangerous for game development. yes you can make beginners happy for a while but you risk losing the core fans of the game because you remove all that is fun and rewarding from the game and wasted all the time those players have spent practicing those crucial skills

The access to his WS(while standing) stuff from manual DSS into that crouch not only allows you to fake your opponent out and do the slide or WS moves but it’s yet another example of this anti defense philosophy they have with T8 by making everything forced 50/50 mix ups. They dont want players with superior defensive skills and maneuvering, instead they want you to stay put and guess so that there’s constant action and players trading damage. Tekken was a game that allowed you to get the hell out of the vortex with superior movement and fundamentals. Mix ups needed to be timed and placed strategically like at the wall or during a tech trap so your opponent couldn’t maneuver out of it as easily, but if you played well And smart you rarely allowed yourself to get caught. It was intelligent gameplay that also locked superior moves and damage behind a learning curve. The really good looking stuff we see from great players is the reward for practice and perseverance. Now everyone has easy access to the characters full potential, and incentivizes less defense and more aggression. MK used to get clowned on because of its constant 50/50 nonsense that turned a lot of players off. Now Tekken, a series that stood above and beyond all these other fighting games because of pure raw fundamentals is adopting the same low grade gameplay philosophy, and it’s an absolute travesty. More profit for the company because of drawing in people with short attention spans and not willing to stick with the game to learn the hard stuff(it’s my mindset that if you like a game you’ll stick with it no matter how challenging it is, because you like it enough to get better at it, but what do I know) but at the cost of watering the series down and losing its identity piece by piece.

Gonna be weird switching to T8 Law...DSS ain't easy, but it's been a blast to learn!

For the slide I 100% support it. Yeah the mix-up potential is super strong, but if the character is balanced accordingly I think it's a lot more interesting than the old slide. For DSS I'm halfway supporting this change, but definitely feel legacy law players should be rewarded for knowing the classic input. problem is unlike perfect electrics there's no easy "it has better properties if you do it right" since its a stance not an attack. Maybe make the new/easy version a frame slower than it is currently and the classic version a frame faster than the current? a 2 frame difference should be enough to be noticeable at higher levels of play, but not such a crazy difference that rookie players are being super punished by not knowing how to

I remember back in 2017 ironfistlaw revolutionize law's execution with his crazy combo videos and i was blown up by the level of skill he had and i promised myself i would do all these combos and with 3 years into understanding law execution i got it. Tht how much attractive law was skillwise. All that is now gone....

Lee main here. Really hoping they don't dumb down mist step

Tekken 7 started the dumbing down, 8 is continuing even further on top of it. This is going to annoy many players, but also will bring a lot of new players. The last true Tekken in terms of keeping its whole technical complexity and depth was TTT2, even though it was considered a failure. With SF6 simplifying its core mechanics, to Strive, to the upcoming project L, Tekken devs want their game as accessible as possible to be able to compete with these upcoming games and retain a solid player base. For dumbing down moves and features, I wouldn't mind them making anything easier , but what I strongly take issue with is the entire removal of something , at least they should give an alternative of a similar move or modifying it to something else, but removing it completely, that's a huge issue, an example of this and maybe no one really noticed, it's removing 10 hits combos variations, before each character used to have 3 to 5 10hits combo versions, in 7 they dumbed down that to 2, and even 1 with some characters. I'm aware 10 hits combos are useless and easily parried/blocked, but that gave me a clear picture about their upcoming path and the vision to start cutting down moves in upcoming Tekkens, and this is just the beginning .

Execution IS decision making in fighting games. The execution and brain power required to do difficult things, DO play into the decision making process when playing fighting games. So people saying fighting games shouldn't be about execution, are basically noobs who've never dedicated themselves to fighting games in the first place.

He’s basically forest law now

Roll dash out of DSS sounds like it has some crazy potential with ws 4

Tk6 was the first tekken game that i took competitive seriously and seeing really good law players perform the dss cancels was a treat, so for me it took 15 years to get good at dss cancels and in tk7 i got alot better, such a shame what they did with this character, years of effort for what 🤦🏾

I get appealing to a casual audience but most of them end up leaving a couple months down the line regardless since no one likes getting bodied and easier execution isnt going to change that.

I'm a returning Law player from tekken 6 and I got to eliminator before knowing about this change lol. I never drop the DSS combos offline but I do seem to miss a few online. This changes everything and I'm happy they did this.

Even the optional execution will probably be gone or obsolete from almost all characters. Watch my Leo KNK cancels and iWS execution be gone too. It was never necessary to play the character, but it added an element of expression and depth to strive towards. But nobody wants or feel like they have time to learn this stuff, and Namco certainly won't be satisfied at just providing better tools for teaching players the game. The sad part is, I feel a lot the players that want changes like this won't stick around for the long haul. Could be wrong though. Call me an elitist, I'm okay with that. I just don't think its an execution barrier that is gatekeeping players, I think its Namco's lack of tools to learn.

I spent months tryna perfect dss for it to mean nothing now lol

How is he playing it? Is he part of a group that gets to play test or is there an open beta? Sorry if this question has been asked

Tekken always felt like a second job I’m happy I don’t have to spend 3 years learning a character I like only to be ass blasted by someone who’s been playing Leroy or fahkumrham for a month I’m sure there’ll be other difficult characters for everyone to sweat about

Newbie to tekken here,I dont understand your explanation of how easy it is to do slide cause I have a hard time with that input

I hope they do Lee like they did king new moves and add ons to his old stuff

Is the dragon fake step (dfs) completely gone? I liked faking a failed dss transition to get dfs and then use dfs 1,4. If it's not gone then there maybe some hope of the old inputs coming back IF enough people complain. The slide mixup is going to be infuriating though, looping ws4 into dss slide dash.

He makes me feel bad about my beginner stage lol 😭

That dash up mechanic looks ridiculous everytime im not gunna lie

I'm guessing Lee Chaolan won't have his b2 loops, or other crazy changes.

I've just played around with Steve in the demo and they did the same thing for every character not just Law. I dont see it as being dumbed down they just consolidated everything. Its not a big deal to me but I see there is a need for some legacy players to feel Elite.

The hell… What were they thinking with this change?

Ok I’m glad I’m not the only one. I thought I was crazy cuz I was trying to do basic old school law things n it just wasn’t working.

Its like taking a lake which floor is diverse in depth and turning it into infinite azure, still a beautiful lake just not as interesting and diverse.

seriously, we need more katerina 444444 combo

"I dropped the dlss in tekken 8 that's impressive" It explains it all Mann will miss the days of dropping every dlss combo whenever I most needed them

I mean wouldn't that be much more convenient? maybe alot of player complain about Law control how complex it is lol it's like playing Invoker in DOTA 2 if they didnt change law control into a bit simple lol

Upset law main waiting for this video. Skeptical for lee… Didn’t even know about the slide shortcut.. so used to doing old way i thought ”they wouldn’t touch that”…

I am a pretty upset cause I worked very hard to get dss and slides down pat, but the dss mixup on slide is kinda huge tbh.

I'm a law player and now i can play the game instead of worrying about dropping the DSS.

Instant Gratification 8: Unga Meets Bunga

wait laws slide was considered hard to do? That was like my signature move when I was Law main spammed it all the time

This might sound crazy since im not a competitive player for tekken and play other fighting games but is it so bad they made something easier to do. I mean the complexity of something should come down to its application not just how hard it is to input right?

cant wait for TMM review about hwoarang.

I was told nunchucks isn’t guaranteed on knockdown is that true?

I'm a lee main and I pray they don't dumb him down....I love the timing and cancels

Ive played Law for years in T7 , im one of the only law players at my local event. I despise the new changes, unless something changes before launch im dropping the character indefinitely.

I think the "dumbing down" of certain characters and their move executions is a response to the growing popularity of leverless controllers and controllers like the crossup arcade stick. Like you said in that video you made about the crossup being a cheating tool, the tekken team probably had to develop the game so that people with those kinds of controllers are on a more level playing field with players playing on a regular arcade stick or a regular pad. Either way I think its fine. Theres more aspects to the game that separate beginners, intermediates, experts and pros. Unbalanced, over powered characters is probably a bigger issue than lowering execution barriers anyways.

I haven’t seen a singular person use the back turned stance for Law

Thank God they didn’t remove the just frame from the skyrocket and its still a just frame skyrocket

imagine doing an old dss execution but they scale down the damage significantly, that's what they did to bryan tju. smh

You can go to challenge combos to avoid getting matches.

What about ws4 dss?

Noticed that his sidestep 3+4 launcher is the same as In tekken 7. so u basically get 3 boundes plus heat dash filler mid combos xd

Lee : guys.....I'm scared

To be fair, the dss slide is wayyyy more predictable than the regular input slide

They've put all the Law mains that mastered dss for 10+ years into the bag and just threw them into the river this is so sadddd

I've been doing DSS since Tekken 4 and took very long to master it...20 years of doing it. and now anyone can do it just by pressing forward? Okay, so can we dumb down the Mishima electric then because I'm not used to it....

It seems like theyre making the characters easier to play. Tekken is already the hardest fighting game in the world. Dumbing down some charcaters wont hurt the franchise. Ive been playing Tekken since 1999 and I can hardly get past red rank. Ill enjoy this game a lot more I'm sure.

I'm really hoping that they don't touch my boy Lee Chaolan's execution... I'm proud to say that I can reliably use most if not all of Lee's hardest execution combos and dumbing him down would be just spitting on my face.

I pray there is not a similar future video regarding Lee.

After playing law in t8 I'm a lil afraid for lee when comes, i hope he's technicalities are there

Okay now I pray they don't dumb down Steve I'll be so upset

As a new Tekken player, I see this as an absolute win.

Does he still have back 2 3 4 ?

This makes me sad as a Law player. Hope it's not too late for change.

venting about law was the first thing i did when i heard about dss being removed. now law is not that interesting to me. doing electrics all day is more interesting than law right now

Law skill ceiling lol but seriously I’m happy about this too,quality of life changes if you ask me.

TMM explaining the history of Law (2023, colorized)

Does that mean there's gonna be even 3 bars wifi Law players in lower ranks and I'm gonna lose my god damn sanity with all those fucking "wooooooo" ???

Not sure why theyd change the slide input. Playing against a Law or Lee and not seeing the shimmy makes you really respect the execution of that opponent. A strong low, like this and Bryan's hatchet kick, are balanced by the input length.

what's fun, is to watch this character play I saw Ninjakilla play this character the other day and he is not even a Tekken player I enjoyed it so much. The Character is fun to watch over all I think these changes does not hurt the character. At the end of the day FUN is the number one Factor

Remember when TMM said Law is secret S tier in Tekken 7 😂😂 but it turned out he is D tier

brother nice video.. ive found the answer to the biggest question i have ever had for this game

I had no idea they did this. You can still do the technical aspects, but new law players wont do this and gi for the easiest route. Creating bad habits.