RIP Clive James, P.J. O'Rourke and Christopher Hitchens. Only Edwin Meese is still with us. Enjoy.
Пікірлер: 723
@patriotunion72112 жыл бұрын
Most remarkable thing about this debate, is that people with clearly opposing views, could do it in such a civilised and respectful way. Something that very sadly missing today!
@patriotunion72112 жыл бұрын
@UFO what?
@OTMM222 жыл бұрын
I feel we've lost a lot of common sense and decency. People are so easily offended that they feel entitled to walk out of a room if someone holds a different opinion to theirs.
@NxDoyle2 жыл бұрын
It was rare then too.
@chrispalmer78932 жыл бұрын
The civility is better than we see today, but the constant bullshit spewed from the right is the same as we see today. Anyone who is prepared to argue that Reagan was an honest guy or even remotely competent at governance has nothing worthwhile to add to the discourse. Mease accidentally got one thing right. He said Reagan’s legacy is nothing if not SDI. Thirty plus years on SDI remains a childish fantasy and Reagan deserves no legacy.
@roughhabit90852 жыл бұрын
Such an original comment.
@thecanberean2 жыл бұрын
Hah! How good is this. What an intellectual, smart, witty and above all, civilised debate. Where are the likes of these men now? What a noisy vacuum we live in these days. Tragic. Thanks for uploading.
@hayleyelizabeth7172 жыл бұрын
Extremely depressing.
@justininfrance Жыл бұрын
Perhaps it was so civilised because they're all good friends? They may have some disagreement but they are all centrist liberals who all fundamentally believe in the dominance of the western capitalist system.
@kiwitrainguy Жыл бұрын
Both Hitchens and James are now dead. Does anybody know about the other two?
@eduardohope49099 ай бұрын
@@kiwitrainguy: Christopher Hitchens passed away in 2011, Clive James in 2019, and P.J. O'Rourke in 2022. As of October 7th, 2023, Edwin Meese carries on at 91 years of age.
@Cheepchipsable6 ай бұрын
There were a lot of late night discussion shows, I expect because they were cheap to produce.
@cobar53422 жыл бұрын
The mighty James with the mighty Hitchens - what a combination We do not have people like them now
@benthomas18852 жыл бұрын
What I wouldn’t give to hear Hitchens let loose on the fools of today.
@youngatheart48802 жыл бұрын
I miss that man, every day, Ben.
@Longtack552 жыл бұрын
Imagine him talking of Trump!
@chrisbaxter35972 жыл бұрын
@@Longtack55 - That would have been pointless like shooting fish in a barrel- what he would have done is dismantle all the mad premises behind identity politics- particularly the idea that a biological man can become a woman
@shinybeast89462 жыл бұрын
@@Longtack55 or better yet Hillary
@derekrobbins68002 жыл бұрын
I agree 100%, he would crucify them all
@johnjones6601 Жыл бұрын
Clive James- the Kogarah Kid! One of Australia's best exports. ❤
@paulsparks45642 жыл бұрын
Hitchens and PJ on the same interview, absolute gold, thanks
@legalmonkey2 жыл бұрын
You're welcome. Glad you enjoyed it. :)
@arriuscalpurniuspiso6 ай бұрын
PJ is a GOP suck up. Easily forgotten
@robertprice2148 Жыл бұрын
Wonderful to see this again, it just shows how gormlesss our current crop are.
@user-eu2eh6et9s7 ай бұрын
One thing you have to give Credit to Hitch for is that he is amusingly well recorded. The archive of his appearances seems to be a well without a bottom. Really an astonishment in hindsight, considering film was not a cheap technology and that the films must physically survive. Even as a historian it’s an uncanny achievement.
@HkFinn833 ай бұрын
This is the late 1980’s not the late 1880’s
@awallner19 күн бұрын
@@HkFinn83 Yeah, I don't know what that comment was pratingly on about.
@curseyoujordanshow2 жыл бұрын
Literally anyone: _"Ronald Reagan once had chocolate ice cream."_ Edwin Meese: _"No he didn't. I was there when he ordered it, and it was definitely vanilla."_
@johnwatts83462 жыл бұрын
nonsense.
@chrispalmer78932 жыл бұрын
@@johnwatts8346 Demonstrable true.
@nickdryad2 жыл бұрын
Clive James was a superb journalist, Polymath and intellectual.
@AnkurBorwankar2 жыл бұрын
I said this on Liam's other video, and I'll say it again here: I cannot thank you enough for sourcing and uploading this. To anyone reading: please do not post this link in public fora anywhere. That will only risk attracting content copyright strikes. If you want to share it, please only do so in private messages with discreet people you personally know and trust.
@legalmonkey2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for that comment. I will pin it here. I had a different video which I uploaded on CH taken down recently!
@AnkurBorwankar2 жыл бұрын
@@legalmonkey Every Hitch video taken down is a loss to thinking people everywhere.
@mangasky72 жыл бұрын
@@legalmonkey As you doubtless know, there's a serious cult for all things Hitch here on KZfaq, so if you can find a way of circumventing any copyright and try reuploading that video -- maybe by not mentioning his full name or undescoring some letters -- it would go down as well as this upload has.
@peterh43812 жыл бұрын
@@AnkurBorwankar ... and thinking women.
@legalmonkey2 жыл бұрын
@@mangasky7 - Ok. Thank you for that tip.
@andrewmacdonald36672 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the upload. I remember seeing the original broadcast and O’Rourke’s comment on humour has always stayed with me. The Late Show was great.
@williamvorkosigan51512 жыл бұрын
What an age we live in, where we can summon up wonderful voices from the past at leisure. I came he for James, and Hitchens with O'Rourke as an attractive addition. I must say, Hitchens doesn't cover himself in glory here.
@ralphtoivonen207111 ай бұрын
By being analytical and honest. Hitchens is fabulous.
@gabriellecunningham71962 жыл бұрын
This is so Fabulous! Many thanks for posting 🖤
@llewstrutt150 Жыл бұрын
This is civil discourse at its best. Unlike the shouty pissing contests which characterise the current media landscape. I miss Clive James😢
@ajahnpadawan8812 Жыл бұрын
When I watch this and other similar videos u quickly see that Hitchens wasn’t any kind of genius. Just another guy who can speak with confidence based on a privileged upbringing.
@borninvincible11 ай бұрын
Civil, yet treacherous. These awful people deserve to be called out on their horrendous ideologies and outright lies.
@borninvincible11 ай бұрын
@@ajahnpadawan8812ad hominem. don't pout because of your inefficiencies.
@ajp89417 ай бұрын
@@ajahnpadawan8812 He was on the wrong side of many issues, but his public school accent played well in the US. And I find him both entertaining and essentially likeable. Would be good to spend an evening arguing with him over a few pints…
@Cheepchipsable6 ай бұрын
@@ajahnpadawan8812 Not sure Hitchens ever claimed to be a genius.
@edwardbrinson61372 жыл бұрын
I love this era of Hitchens.
@marceldemir75142 жыл бұрын
Thoroughly enjoyed, what professional respectable gentlemen!
@hunter23138 Жыл бұрын
Time well spent: watching this. Time not well spent: reading the comments.
@johnjosmith422 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much for posting; oddly enough, this remains contemporary :: also, Hitchens, as per: Dazzles ✨
@legalmonkey2 жыл бұрын
You're welcome. I'm glad you're enjoying it. I have a few more to work on.
@johnjosmith422 жыл бұрын
@@legalmonkey this is glorious news 🌟 😄 !! Thanks, thanks and ever thanks.
@erc94682 жыл бұрын
@@johnjosmith42 Meh. Hitchens' vacuous smugness comes off as just swarmy. He is witty, tho.
@stewartcohen-jones29492 жыл бұрын
Hitchens’s exactitude and ability to pull up facts in the face of conjecture is admirable.
@charlescarter20722 жыл бұрын
Seemed the opposite was happening here
@stewartcohen-jones29492 жыл бұрын
….and the ability of his opponents to infer the opposite is undeniable….
@egverlander2 жыл бұрын
You assume that he is accurate and truthful. He disarms rebuttal by taking control of the argument, speaking loudly, cutting off others, and insisting on have the last word. Check your assumptions.
@charlescarter20722 жыл бұрын
@@egverlander well said
@stewartcohen-jones29492 жыл бұрын
Watched it twice to check my assumptions. No interruptions, only corrections which were needed. He let them speak with good manners. The opposing view had the most speaking time. Watch it again and keep that in mind. Hitchens would not apologise for his dulcet tones which is of course correct.
@babelinfocalypse81182 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this!
@Glassy9672 жыл бұрын
Great upload - thanks a lot! Something I'd not seen of Christopher Hitchens...very rare commodity
@legalmonkey2 жыл бұрын
You're welcome. Thanks for the nice comment. Glad you enjoyed it.
@tombombadyl45352 жыл бұрын
The breakup of the Soviet Union has very little to do with Reagan and everything to do with Gorbachev. Had Reagan been negotiating with Stalin or Khrushchev or Brezhnev - or Putin for that matter - Reagan wouldn’t have gotten anywhere. Reagan believed that the world was created in six days. I could never get past that.
@dthomas92302 жыл бұрын
He also screwed Carter with his guns for hostages deals as well as his genocide in Guatemala as charged by The Hague.
@tombombadyl45352 жыл бұрын
@@dthomas9230 it kills me the kind or revisionism that goes on regarding Reagan. As though history has proven him a great president. I guess it’s all relative. I would have taken Reagan over George W Bush. And compared to Trump, Reagan was a saint.
@joeanthony77592 жыл бұрын
@@tombombadyl4535 That’s what is….nostalgia and the political atmosphere having sunken to new lows in our era. Next to Trump and even W., Reagan seems swell.
@harmon1103 Жыл бұрын
@@tombombadyl4535 Not great, but pretty good.
@kapple654 Жыл бұрын
a top bloke - he knew all the great and respected ppl with talent. one of the few Aussies I like.
@jtro776 ай бұрын
I was born in 1977 in the U.K. and remember current affairs broadcasts like this. I was somewhat of a nerd and enjoyed programmes from around the age of 6 or 7 such as this. I recognised in my teenage years (1992 onwards) that open debates changed. Mostly in the "open" aspect, mildy at first. However, I still have faith that we will have no option other than to return to a balanced society.
@hayleyelizabeth7172 жыл бұрын
Thank you for uploading this. Superb.
@legalmonkey2 жыл бұрын
You're welcome. :)
@mickdevlin2 жыл бұрын
Three of the funniest men who ever lived in one room. That'll do me.....
@roryoconnor65742 жыл бұрын
Clive James, Hitchens and Meese
@_misnoma_2 жыл бұрын
@@roryoconnor6574 Three of the funniest men who ever lived, in one room.
@mauriceguiney12002 жыл бұрын
@UFO: ok.....it's 'in one room'....😬
@waukivorycopse24022 жыл бұрын
I'd say three of the funniest men who lived together in one room would have been the Marx Brothers. (Gummo and Zeppo had another room.)
@deirdre1082 жыл бұрын
I'd say that O'Rourke's book "Holidays in Hell" was one of the funniest books I've ever read. Highly recommended.
@iansmith91252 жыл бұрын
Fantastic. Thank you so much
@mangasky72 жыл бұрын
Thank you for sharing this terrific footage; it's depressing to think that Meese is the only man still standing.
@alasdairwatson7122 жыл бұрын
I was about to say that.
@legalmonkey2 жыл бұрын
You're welcome. Thank you.
@arriuscalpurniuspiso6 ай бұрын
Well, a sociopath with no conscience is not affected by age
@JohnCP332 жыл бұрын
The fact that the first 3 intro minutes of this video exist prove that humanity was once in fact, for a brief moment in the 20th century, civilized. Spot on good sirs.
@wonderllama43682 жыл бұрын
Great discussion. Clive was always a great interviewer/moderator.
@arriuscalpurniuspiso6 ай бұрын
He was horrible. Obviously biased.
@wonderllama43686 ай бұрын
Meh
@iainherridge62535 ай бұрын
@@arriuscalpurniuspisowhat to the middle?
@roughhabit90852 ай бұрын
His bias merely evened the numbers which seems fair ,and he was way more tolerant than Hitchens.
@nealmac1872 жыл бұрын
Wow, I'm delighted to find this clip. It's too late tonight to watch it, but I shall do so tomorrow.
@meredyddbarker73202 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this.
@meredyddbarker73202 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this. Fascinating.
@Buddythunder12 жыл бұрын
Great upload - discourse of a quality you have no chance of seeing today.
@robjohnston14332 жыл бұрын
Oh FAB! A Hitchens interview I haven't seen -- with the bonus of PJ O'Rourke!
@OlsBols Жыл бұрын
What a fantastic discussion. Thank you for sharing this.
@arriuscalpurniuspiso6 ай бұрын
Horrible forum. They all cut off Hitchens, who very patiently suffered their Nazi crap talk
@ligonwebbАй бұрын
Who else just fast forwards to when Hitchens speaks ? 😂
@willmpetАй бұрын
Not me.
@PaulSmith-wb9fo18 күн бұрын
I do
@rstevens77112 жыл бұрын
What a brilliant upload, thanks a lot. Edwin Meese's explanation of the 'Iran initiative' is absolutely astonishing. Somewhere, probably at the end of a bar, Hitchens is still laughing at that.
@egverlander2 жыл бұрын
Hitchens sits on the sidelines and pontificates but could never be in the arena. That makes him an intellectual coward.
@rstevens77112 жыл бұрын
@@egverlander An intellectual coward? The world would be a much better place if we had more of them.
@roughhabit90852 жыл бұрын
I liked how Clive would ask Meese , an eyewitness insider , what actually happened, and meanwhile Hitchens stuck to his fabricated conspiracy theories. It’s what you would expect from someone who never even had the civility to respect religious freedom, and I say that as an atheist.
@rstevens77112 жыл бұрын
@@roughhabit9085 You're aware that Hitchens cites the accounts of others, all made in public, when questioning the narrative of Meese? As for the comment on religious freedom, I'm astonished you think that Hitchens didn't respect religious freedom.
@egverlander2 жыл бұрын
@@rstevens7711 All bullies are cowards. He is an intellectual bully. Watch his atheism book tour, moralistic diatribes.
@bonnie43uk2 жыл бұрын
If you get a chance, read Clive James autobiography "Unreliable Memoirs" .. the funniest book I've ever read.
@roughhabit9085 Жыл бұрын
Yup read it 42 years ago.
@kasimsultonfan2 жыл бұрын
Wow. Reasoned discussion and articulate disagreement in words of more than two syllables... And nobody called anyone a Nazi once.
@Nexus-hh1lx2 жыл бұрын
Those days are long gone my friend.
@adamumagpire78482 жыл бұрын
Awe struck at the level of nuance and political discourse...very enlightening.
@hlysnan64182 жыл бұрын
More, more!
@browsertab28 күн бұрын
Why am I only learning of this amazing video just now
@ofrabjousday12 жыл бұрын
This was a fascinating archival interview that I am so glad has been posted, thank you! The one thing I hadn't picked up on back in the 80's is how much of a party line-spouting wiener P.J. O'Rourke was. Meese and Hitchens were as clear-eyed and well-spoken as always, even though I've always seen Meese as someone whose job it was to serve Reagan well. This video did NOT feel like 43 minutes to me!
@dansullivan76932 жыл бұрын
I disagree, and with time, PJ looks a much more clear thinking on the issue. Hitchens would sound more like PJ late in his life.
@ofrabjousday12 жыл бұрын
@@dansullivan7693 That was my impression of him too, Dan. I remembered PJ as well-spoken and well-thought out, but that was from 40 years ago. I guess he was either not on top of his game this day, or he didn't know what was being talked about for a lot of it. His comments here seem really generic, and not geared toward answering the questions posed to him. It felt to me like he was struggling to cover the subject for much of this interview. Thanks for responding.
@harmon1103 Жыл бұрын
@@ofrabjousday1 If this is mediocre PJ, I look forward to when he's on his game! Hitchens comes across to me as a dope, Meese is articulate and lawyerly, James is as usual worth hearing, but PJ strikes me as being the most reasonable & intelligent person in the discussion.
@ofrabjousday1 Жыл бұрын
@@harmon1103 Yipe.
@MrClingclong2 жыл бұрын
Such class. Compare this to the empty dullards on BBC Newsnight these days! We are so much poorer now.
@frogsin78502 жыл бұрын
Wow .. this was recorded before the Lockerbie Bombing... Gadafi was hardly dissauded from terrorism by F1-11 bombing on Tripoli
@MorphingReality2 жыл бұрын
Hip hip, hooray :)
@legalmonkey2 жыл бұрын
:)
@kurtfaber61592 жыл бұрын
God, life was good before identity politics and the politics of grievance made us miserable.
@mattygroves214782 жыл бұрын
Yep, back in the day, U.S. presidents didn't have to profess their love of (the Christian) God, not like now ;-)
@chrisbaxter35972 жыл бұрын
So true - I fight it when ever I encounter it - but as an old school free speech leftie I feel the battle is being lost
@mattygroves214782 жыл бұрын
@@chrisbaxter3597 what can't you say now that you could say 30 years ago?
@chrisbaxter35972 жыл бұрын
@@mattygroves21478 Biological men cannot become women - just because they say so - that’s one - do you really need me to carry on
@mattygroves214782 жыл бұрын
@@chrisbaxter3597 You said the unsayable it seems. Out of curiousity, can you define a biological man?
@wbh732 жыл бұрын
Astounding. No wonder our species is in peril.
@deesee60092 жыл бұрын
Big Hitchens fan but he was unforgivably dull during these exchanges.
@angelpacheco32432 жыл бұрын
O'Rourke is left twisting in his chair around 24:55 after Hitchens skewers his "joke".
@benfindlay62802 жыл бұрын
What a gem
@gregcoles4012 жыл бұрын
Gold… reasonably respectful discourse by 4 intelligent people on serious subjects.
@gamingwithslacker2 жыл бұрын
Oh my goodness. Clive James + Christopher Hitchens. This is great. Where do you find this gold ?
@MattSingh12 жыл бұрын
*Hitchens and James were friends- Hitchens spoke highly of James and James of Hitchens.*
@gamingwithslacker2 жыл бұрын
@@MattSingh1 I know they'd known each other in the 1970s, and Hitchens liked James , but I always thought James was a little more ambivalent abt Hitchens.
@MattSingh12 жыл бұрын
@@gamingwithslacker *No not at all, James was a out-right friend of Hitchens along the lines of Rushdie, Amis, Fenton et al.*
@barrylongstaff28162 жыл бұрын
@@MattSingh1 all used to lunch together every Friday I believe, Along with Martin Amis and a few others.
@comanchio19762 жыл бұрын
I'd been aware their friendship but, never been able to find an example of them sharing screen time together, until stumbling across this little gem...
@waukivorycopse24022 жыл бұрын
My insignificant observations, feel free to lambast me. 1. O'Rourke thinks he's smarter than Hitchens and believes it. 2. Meese knows he's not smarter than Hitchens and accepts it. 3. Hitchens is smarter than all of them and tolerates the situation. 4. James could be smarter than any of them and doesn't care.
@chrisbaxter35972 жыл бұрын
Excellent - James was indeed a very smart bloke and down to earth with it
@CD-pq1yv2 жыл бұрын
Nailed it!
@roughhabit90852 жыл бұрын
Don’t know too much about O’Rourke or Meese . James of course had about five more careers than Hitchens. He was a pioneer of television and comedy. He was considered one of the world’s best literary critics. He knew about ten more languages than Hitchens. Read them both and it doesn’t take long to glean who is the finer writer, and James never got labeled a sewer pipe sucker.
@deesee60092 жыл бұрын
If only being smart equated to effectiveness! As a huge Hitchens fan his eager dourness backfired against his positive company.
@autodidact537 Жыл бұрын
Christopher Hitchens was a smart man. He was a debater par excellence & a polemical pugilist. But for all his brilliance he lacked true wisdom & his legacy will not last. Christopher got the flashy wit, his brother Peter got the wisdom.
@francismaloney87752 жыл бұрын
Thank you, 👏💯🇮🇪
@legalmonkey2 жыл бұрын
You are very welcome.
@ianlacey65882 жыл бұрын
I did not know this existed. There just is not enough footage of P.J. O’Rourke, and here he is with Clive James, and Clive James. Thank you so much.
@ianlacey65882 жыл бұрын
?! Clive James, P.J. O’Rourke, and Christopher Hitchens.
@hittitecharioteer2 жыл бұрын
9.34 Re. flippancy. The Hitch well and truly put in his place and brought to heel by P.J. O'Rourke. Witheringly so in fact.
@damienbowles4306 ай бұрын
That's a bizarre interpretation. O'Rourke basically said, "No, but you are!" A really lame retort. I'm not surprised he regards flippancy as a virtue, though.
@calql8er2 жыл бұрын
Fascinating. Hitchens powers of articulation vs. Meese eye-witness accounts.
@chrispalmer78932 жыл бұрын
I think you mean Hitchens's powers of articulation vs. Meese's barefaced lies. I find it oddly comforting, I had come to think that the right telling easily disprovable lies without remotely caring that we can prove they are lying was a fairly recent phenomena. I forgot about the pioneering work in that field by Reagan and his accolytes (thinking about it, might have go back a little further than to Nixon, although it's no coincidence that even at the very end of the Nixon presidency Reagan would shamelessly deny that any wrongdoing had taken place).
@calql8er2 жыл бұрын
@@chrispalmer7893 Ah. I see. Meese is a liar. Give me just a couple of his lies and if you can reference your source, so much the better, but not required. Incidentally, I did not care for Meese.
@shinybeast89462 жыл бұрын
@@calql8er What did he lie about?
@calql8er2 жыл бұрын
@@shinybeast8946 Against my better nature I am defending Meese. I asked Chris Palmer to give me some examples of when Meese lied. I presume he did. But I want him to provide me with some specific lies.
@calql8er2 жыл бұрын
@@shinybeast8946 I see what happened. This mysterious chris Palmer must have deleted his post wherein he accused Meese of lying.
@Longtack552 жыл бұрын
PJ is a light weight amongst James and Hitchens.
@litote92 жыл бұрын
Reagan didn't put the Soviets at ease with his flippant "We begin bombing in five minutes" joke. It was taken seriously by some and led to a wartime alert for a short while by part of the USSR's military. The Cold War was not a time to be feeding Soviet paranoia about nuclear strikes. Loved Hitchens' "lumberjack in the Sahara" analogy slap down, or should I say "Hitchslap"?
@TedATL12 жыл бұрын
Soviets werent that stupid. BTW, Khruschev banged his shoe at the UN and said "We will bury you!"
@roughhabit90852 жыл бұрын
Well it worked didn’t it?
@jonathangwynne19172 жыл бұрын
Meese was such a worm.
@roncarroll15182 жыл бұрын
Four brilliant minds !
@call_in_sick2 жыл бұрын
How discussion, disagreement, debate is done with mutual respect. The good old days ✌🏻🥹
@nickprohoroff3720 Жыл бұрын
What a quorum! Won't see this again in our lifetimes.
@elizabethanderson29682 жыл бұрын
Meese ... what rot
@daveluck57172 жыл бұрын
Nice trio of commentary ... Not seen clive for a good while.
@mrbenben49512 жыл бұрын
Having Christopher Hitchens in any debate must have been terrifying for all involved. Sadly things have not progressed as much as we would have hoped since then
@seanmoran27432 жыл бұрын
Where did you hood to progress too ? Utopia?
@TedATL12 жыл бұрын
O'Rourke wasnt in the least terrified and very effectively slapped Hitch into place with his return on "flippancy".
@roughhabit90852 жыл бұрын
Three of them wanted a discussion and Hitchens wanted to be righteous and belligerent.
@twntwrs2 жыл бұрын
@Don´tbehasty unlike ideologues he did let facts influence his positions.
@twntwrs2 жыл бұрын
@Don´tbehasty as well as US ineptitude (which Hitchens never neglected to point out) would allow. But that had nothing to do with the necessity and rightness of removing Saddam Hussein.
@terrytoucan64792 жыл бұрын
Spin Doctor Meese.
@joeanthony77592 жыл бұрын
Pathetic partisan hack. Just because he keeps repeating “I know, I was there” , he thinks we’ll all believe him.
@brettpaterson8042 Жыл бұрын
What a gem from the past,Thank you..Anything Hitchens is involved with I watch, he didn’t get all his own way but that’s what’s necessary regarding serious intellectual debate. Messe will always defend his master, obedient till the end. O’Rourke acted like a articulate bodyguard for Meese, cutting Hitchens down once he scented any liberal left opinion. But Hitchens is scared of no one (Chomsky should of been invited to this debate to even the sides up). The real diamond amongst the gems was Clive James, dry wit mixed with knowledge and intellectual articulation is what’s required today in serious debates. Reagan was a enigma, his I’m just an ordinary man doing my job attitude worked, but behind the scenes in the White House as in any power organisation there is always sculduggery a plenty.
@roughhabit9085 Жыл бұрын
God what drivel
@dannistor72942 жыл бұрын
... Hitchens (whose brilliancy is obvious), puts forth such an absolute confidence that, when proved wrong, he falls from very high...
@egverlander2 жыл бұрын
Well said. Obvious in this exchange in the face of peers. You can see his anxiety go up when he loses control of the conversation. His legs flutter and he starts to stutter.
@joeanthony77592 жыл бұрын
@@egverlander He never had control of the conversation and had to struggle just to get a point made. O’Rourke and Meese came off as pathetic partisan apologists.
@harmon1103 Жыл бұрын
@@joeanthony7759 Not to me. Meese is obviously the Reagan partisan, but I've seen enough in my 75 years to think that he's largely truthful. PJ is terrific.
@sjmac97372 жыл бұрын
Hitchens in his last years would hate this HItchens
@personalsigh Жыл бұрын
Oh my dear boy
@eddyk20162 жыл бұрын
I hope you win the lottery my dear chap thank you once again 😎👍
@roughhabit90852 жыл бұрын
I’m not sure he’s a CH sycophant. Some of his other clips feature Milton Friedman , who is the polar opposite of the idealist Hitchens.
@eddyk20162 жыл бұрын
@@roughhabit9085 I’m not sure I ever said he was my dear boy! Nothing wrong with expressing thanks to someone who’s gone to the trouble of posting things one jolly well likes Have a great day sir
@roughhabit90852 жыл бұрын
@ Eddy K 🍻
@stuartmcdonald29742 жыл бұрын
The more things change, the more they stay the same. A debate conducted in the last week of Reagan’s presidency. Hear how Reagan was seen as a safe pair of hands after batshit crazy Nixon. Sound familiar ? Reagan himself sounds like a cross between Biden and Trump, an insensitive senile liar. Hitchens and James are the stars of the show. Hitchens is accused of being humourless by his two opponents when his sardonic wit is several levels above their attempts at humour. RIP the hitch taken too early
@hypnotechno2 жыл бұрын
Good well said
@alleyesallsides Жыл бұрын
9:36 - "can you?" - very sharp.
@brianmurray26872 жыл бұрын
The liberals were persistently wrong about SDI. So glad Reagan wasn't. So glad this has been preserved!
@craigcarter98592 жыл бұрын
Debate between highly intelligent people who have differnt views...i miss this today. Its so sad today to see what has happened to the left and right. Many thanks.
@HappyinJapan3588 ай бұрын
I wish people could still talk about global topics in this way. Just great stuff
@buddinganarchist2 жыл бұрын
Why no talk shows like this anymore? Amazing. And Clive is no liberal.
@carryonpompei Жыл бұрын
They seem so much more articulate than current pundits and politicians.
@harmon1103 Жыл бұрын
Maybe. I'd like to hear Bill Barr, for example. But he's too rational to get air time, and we have no forum for reasonable discussion these days, at least not that I'm aware of.
@MrSatts692 жыл бұрын
They talk about curtailing Libyan terrorism, yet less than six weeks after this ran was the tragedy of Lockerbie
@tomglenn4852 жыл бұрын
That is a very important counter to Messe's point.... But my reading of Paul Foote's long form work points to another player... Who now thinks much of the USS Vincennes 'incident' July 88.
@raoulmontefiore48032 жыл бұрын
Almost certainly not the work of Libyans.
@ryans7562 жыл бұрын
A wonderful trip back in time. You can't help but wonder what Hitchens would have made of Presidents Trump and Biden. Especially Trump. Thanks for the upload.
@cwegers32 жыл бұрын
Out of these four , Edwin Meese is the only one still around .
@robertborden542 жыл бұрын
Amazing video. Great debate. Love the combination of O'Rourke, Hitchens and James. I like Hitchens and this is the first debate I've seen where he didn't always have the upper hand.
@ttacking_you2 жыл бұрын
Except, about the facts.
@stephenchurch9382 жыл бұрын
@@ttacking_you and that it's two against one ...
@roughhabit90852 жыл бұрын
@ Stephen Church. 2v2 or did you skip Jame’s introduction?
@clarkeonenil32522 жыл бұрын
@@roughhabit9085 More like 2 v 1.5. The purpose of the show was to discuss how much, if any, truth there was in a particular commonly-held negative view of Reagan. As host, it fell to Clive James to present that view at the beginning. Thereafter, it was 2 v 1. James interjected now and then with some negativity about Reagan, but that was just him steering the discussion in the direction it was supposed to go.
@emilymaitlislaptop2 жыл бұрын
My three teenage heroes. Still.
@britpackdog45452 жыл бұрын
You old
@emilymaitlislaptop2 жыл бұрын
@@britpackdog4545 not yet 50. I started early.
@britpackdog45452 жыл бұрын
@@emilymaitlislaptop wow
@emilymaitlislaptop2 жыл бұрын
@@britpackdog4545 isn’t it (not) amazing. Just an innocent comment that all three literary heroes are in one discussion. Nothing special at all for others, but interesting for me. Sarcasm is healthy - keep going if you wish.
@britpackdog45452 жыл бұрын
@@emilymaitlislaptop not being sarcastic my guy I'm 50 and all my chickens came home to roost
@Chardonbois Жыл бұрын
Such a refreshingly polite discussion between complete opposites of opinion.
@jandekker60082 жыл бұрын
Funny how this debate contrasts with the largely benign view of Reagan that seems to apply now. Clive's words at the end are quite prophetic.
@dmisso422 жыл бұрын
I am continually impressed with Politician's ability to manipulate semantics. 05:40
@atg19622 жыл бұрын
Clive James is great, had forgotten about him... RIP PJ and Hitch.... PJ was not nearly as intelligent as i thought. Hitch was smart as hell... Meese is a yes man, a good one but a yes man none the less
@carygson2 жыл бұрын
RIP Clive James too.
@headdowneyeontheball55292 жыл бұрын
4 articulate and intelligent men. Wonderful debate.
@PeteJones812 жыл бұрын
"He can't stop being flippant." "Can You?" Lmao, I love both Hitch and PJ but definitely advantage to PJ there.
@imgoingonamarch2 жыл бұрын
Nonsensical. I’ve watched quite a lot of Hitchens’ stuff and read a couple of his books. To describe him as a non-serious individual is obviously wrong.
@joeanthony77592 жыл бұрын
Uh, no. P.J. there was being flippant himself on the topic of nuclear war, which is idiotic.
@PeteJones812 жыл бұрын
@@joeanthony7759 No, they were talking about Reagan being quippy after his attempted assassination.
@spleenware2 жыл бұрын
The older I get, the more I realise that, although Hitch was 'clever', he wasn't always 'right'.
@ThomasPowellNZ2 жыл бұрын
Hitch would agree.
@brendangallagher8087 Жыл бұрын
he rather got routed here , all very elegantly of course. A rare defeat for him
@autodidact537 Жыл бұрын
The simple fact is although Christopher Hitchens was an extraordinary debater & polemical pugilist, he lacked wisdom.
@harmon1103 Жыл бұрын
@@autodidact537 Or perspective.
@royboy457111 ай бұрын
WTF ! Hitchens quit rightly predicted Reagan would b e remembered as one of the worst presidents ever.
@michaelneil59464 күн бұрын
It's a shame genuinely well considered and wide ranging debate like this is pretty much a thing of the past on television.
@markwatkins83092 жыл бұрын
A good debate but Meese & PJ don't seem to concede much, if any, ground to Hitchens. Christopher has a point about perceived flippancy in serious situations.
@egverlander2 жыл бұрын
Hitchens has no sense of humor. Just condescension. He's an intellectual bully.
@joeanthony77592 жыл бұрын
@@egverlander Not really. It’s that people who can’t possibly hope to keep up with his encyclopedic memory of facts and figures can’t handle it so they ignore what he’s actually saying and attack him ad hominem, like yourself.
@nickwyatt94982 жыл бұрын
@E.G.Verlander: No sense of humour? Have you read a single word the man wrote, starting with his autobiography?
@autodidact537 Жыл бұрын
@@joeanthony7759 CH was an intelligent man but he lacked the true wisdom of his brother Peter.
@brendangallagher8087 Жыл бұрын
Not often you saw Christopher Hitchens bettered and out argued .... but this is one of them. Great stuff from all involved in fairness
@lucianopavarotti2843 Жыл бұрын
You wish
@lucianopavarotti2843 Жыл бұрын
@@ericprinzing1600 Why do you want me to do that, but think it is dreadful for Hitchens to? He doesn't need to be original on Atheism and in fact no-one can be-- the arguments of atheism are pretty fixed and have been for a few thousand years. Hitchens' value was to introduce a new generation of people to that critical tradition -- see his Portable Atheist. But I think he had a very powerful way of formulating all those arguments anew
@lucianopavarotti2843 Жыл бұрын
@@ericprinzing1600 Wrong.
@lucianopavarotti2843 Жыл бұрын
@@ericprinzing1600 Thanks. On points 1 and 2 -- you were certainly recommending a course of action to me and insinuating -- as you do again here -- that Hitchens is redundant; and there were quite a number of ad hominem remarks in which Hitchens was reduced by you to a sort of trivial entertainer. But no matter. On 'religion poisons everything' -- I think Hitchens made that case very well: it poisons life by making the individual a plaything of non-existent totalitarian deities or very existent theocratic authorities, so crushing our individuality, committing us to a life of subjection and a perverted sense of guilt, and its foundational texts express either primitive tribal codes that we are well rid of or common sense things that are instinctive and don't require supernatural enforcement. That's all quite poisonous, I'd say. On atheism, the fact that its public expression across different ancient civilisations up until fairly recently even in the West was usually met with death or exile or other penalties for' blaspheme' does not mean that people did not have very strong and clear atheistic thoughts from the beginning. They just had to be suppressed. I have nothing against Russell et all. Russell's books are on my shelves, including 'why I am not a Christian'. But to suggest that Russell or Mackie are the last words on the subject of atheism and that no further comment is needed seems a bit cramped. Finally, on Muslims, what you say is a huge slur. Hitchens was certainly for the extirpation of militant Islamists of the ISIS and Al Qaeda persuasion --- the beheaders and suicide bombers -- but in no conceivable sense of Muslims as a whole. For years he advocated for the Sunni Muslim Kurds of northern Iraq. On Stalin and the Orthodox Church, I think Hitchens was actually pointing out that Stalin appropriated all the worst bits of the Church --- the imposition of doctrinaire views, the pursuit of heretics, the tribalism, the inquisitions and fake miracles of industrial and agricultural production. He also made points about the cynical alliance between Putin and the Russian orthodox Church, which have proved all too true in the current Russian onslaught on Ukraine. best wishes.
@ralphtoivonen207111 ай бұрын
Delusional
@davidwilkie95512 жыл бұрын
Exceptional service to civil debate.
@roberthuismans35332 жыл бұрын
If you are ever invited to debate Hitchens... decline. (Dawkins quote, I think)
@charlescarter20722 жыл бұрын
Went ok for William Lane Craig and George Galloway
@twntwrs2 жыл бұрын
@@charlescarter2072 William Lane "everything has a cause until I say it doesn't" Craig? You can't be serious.
@charlescarter20722 жыл бұрын
@@twntwrs not quite his theory but nice try.
@theplayer22862 жыл бұрын
@@charlescarter2072 Only if you have a good sense of humour.
@harmon1103 Жыл бұрын
Unless you are PJ...
@davidgoulden59562 жыл бұрын
Thanks for uploading this Liam. I remember watching it when it was first broadcast. Where did the years go? I like Hitchens. Met him once outside the National Portrait Gallery. He was charm itself. Take issue, though, with his dismissal of Carter as a 'cretin'. Carter did not connect with the American people and I don't think anyone argues that he was one of the great Presidents. Still he was far from being a 'cretin'.
@legalmonkey2 жыл бұрын
You're welcome. Nice place to meet him. When was that would you say? the 90s?
@davidgoulden59562 жыл бұрын
@@legalmonkey A rainy weekday very early 2000s. He was with a woman and a child/children. I told him I thought his essays in Vanity Fair were the best things in the magazine. (I wasn't kissing up to him. I DID think it.) His reply? Well thank you very much indeed. You've just made my day. A charmer. Met his brother near Royal Kensington Gardens approx. 10 years ago. He wasn't rude exactly. Lacked his brother's charm and approachability, though... BEST, David.
@twntwrs2 жыл бұрын
@@davidgoulden5956 Ah, so you met both the greater and the much lesser. Meese too is still around - the good die young. Hitch was perhaps thinking of Carter's godbothering but the remark remains otherwise inaccurate and certainly uncharitable.
@davidgoulden59562 жыл бұрын
@@twntwrs The meeting with Christopher was forgettable. If I'd know he would be that chilly, I wouldn't have bothered approaching him. (To be fair, perhaps I caught him at a bad moment.) Regarding Carter, he reminds me of Ted Heath in some ways. That is, both fundamentally decent and very intelligent men who were not ideally suited temperamentally to becoming the leaders of their countries. To compound their problems, I think they attained the highest office at an uncommonly turbulent time. BEST, D.
@davidgoulden59562 жыл бұрын
Drat. Meant to say, of course, that the meeting with Peter, not Christopher, was forgettable!
@latkagravas29672 жыл бұрын
P.J. started way left, and after hanging with those lefties, hightailed right, then mellowed to the middle near the end of his life. Way advanced humorist. Meese still lives and would have been a brilliant and skilled spokesperson for current Republicans. Great "spinner". Hitchens would have demolished current Republicans, and would have been avoided at all costs, if not suffered a mysterious accidental death, had he not died from cigarettes first.
@HarryNicNicholas2 жыл бұрын
i didn't recognise o'rourk, the same guy who made me laugh every week with lampoon? how much was reagon paying him?
@jonharrison92222 жыл бұрын
Less likeable when he started making excuses for Trump and religion drove out his sense of humour.
@ralphtoivonen207111 ай бұрын
PJ just found out he could make heaps more money telling right wingers what they want to hear.😂