Max laying down the ground rules about discussion at the start, but also being the biggest deviator and rabbit hole explorer is hilarious :D
@Skocik9113 ай бұрын
My problem with this list is that half of these dungeons for the vast majority of an expansion sucked it took forever for them to be “fixed”
@Fr33mx2 ай бұрын
now imagine if he didn't have those rules, he'd be waay deeper into each and every one of those.
@Sorae903 ай бұрын
This is a super cool concept with the checking if someone has the dungeon higher on the list and if not discussing it. More of this please!
@BiIboSwaggins3 ай бұрын
Holy crap man, I was listening to this before bed, and as I was falling asleep the video was kind of ending... but then the dratnos winning sound came in, and ill be awake for another 19 years.
@fronkacean3 ай бұрын
LMAO my bad man it's a little loud in hindsight
@BiIboSwaggins3 ай бұрын
@@fronkacean Well, I am still awake LMAO.
@fronkacean3 ай бұрын
@@BiIboSwaggins gm
@Gordonfreems3 ай бұрын
They would kill me with hammers Dratnos is such a beast with these takes
@BushesDid9113 ай бұрын
Dratnos with the greatest quote lol. "they would kill me with hammers"
@GreyRL3 ай бұрын
"They would kill me with hammers" is my new favourite Dratnos line 1:17:05
@someoneelse8783 ай бұрын
He's also right- DEATH TO SANGUINE DEPTHS
@HoGirth3 ай бұрын
Let me introduce you to my friend: Northern Lion
@quinnquinnquinn2153 ай бұрын
1:17:46 *
@GreyRL3 ай бұрын
@@quinnquinnquinn215 timestamping for myself as I enjoy the preamble, it really sends it home
@DanteDemonZ3 ай бұрын
Every time I see these list I am reminded just how vast the difference is between people who pug and people who play premades. Because I have nothing but horrendous experiences with Underrot. Genuinely think across BFA and DF that it's the most bricked keys I've ever been in, even more so than Murozonds Rise.
@andrewglover17513 ай бұрын
😢😅
@Mieli1013 ай бұрын
That's interesting to read your perspective on this. My experience pugging was Underrot was the most free key out there and was my least favorite for that reason.
@TotalRejection3 ай бұрын
underrot third boss on tyrannical = pug destroyer
@renanmoraes4242 ай бұрын
I always pugged and I always thought underrot was an easier key, would always be the loot key for me
@mysteryman77663 күн бұрын
Underrot and SotS were just objectively bad dungeons imo. I could not stand them.
@dibert93 ай бұрын
What I think is funny is that the "open pathing" concept is either the greatest thing ever if you have a group you constantly run with but it is the worst thing ever in pugs. That is a take completely biased by group consistency.
@oliverlee85613 ай бұрын
The best is when there are popular routes that are common and also choices for interesting strats.
@TheDeseat3 ай бұрын
Totally agree. It's the worst if you are used to doing the "pug route" and then out of nowhere the pug tank tries a different route and you just know it's gonna be a deplete
@samhope1193 ай бұрын
0:09 😊
@izadarx3 ай бұрын
I cracked up laughing for a solid few minutes in my car after “they would kill me with hammers”
@Zoho-Wow3 ай бұрын
Dorki so funny calling the Echo HOV snapping "basic"
@fastydaveАй бұрын
Because it is
@laxmax923 ай бұрын
Dorki's explanation of Atal Dazar last boss, hit too close to home. I cant count how many pugs would not listen to me telling them to stack just off boss
@thatepicwizardguy3 ай бұрын
the best dungeons aren't painful to pug civilian keys for. freehold was excellent for that so it was very good. underrot was horrific for that so it was very bad.
@vidjal3 ай бұрын
Agree on Maw of Shouls, it was one of my fav ever. Loved running it over and over.
@buddybarlow96043 ай бұрын
only because its 20 mins
@corysteiner12182 ай бұрын
51:58 I love Dratnos's response to Dorki. This is pure gold xD.
@Shapingus2 ай бұрын
@17:45 They *did* bring back Eye of Azshara M+ back in SL Before Season 4 which was the first "official" season with prior-expansion dungeons, Legion Timewalking had its own set of M+ dungeons with a special Infernal affix. Eye of Azshara was one of them, along with BRH/Court/DHT/Nelth's Lair/Vault
@lovelywaz3 ай бұрын
Underrot with a PUG was totally different experience. Be it the trash pulls, or "body pulls" that should've been skipped, or the boss mechanics. A LOT of all these relied on Tanks to begin with but then also team work. The positioning on bosses were extremely important and also where to stack and where to face. It was always either one of the best and most fun runs, or the miserable with PUGs usually disbanding on Cragmaw. Here's a quick "small list" of group wide mechanics that could go either way. 1) Tank positioning Cragmaw and entire group needs to clear ticks + groups positioning as well 2) Tank positioning Sprecaller and once again rest of the group needs to clear mushrooms 3) EVERYONE had their own brilliant idea of how last boss worked where people deciding not to stack with tank, or tank not doing it right to begin with and then someone thinking it's BEST to stay near the wall without realizing the breath could (and DID) splash back off the wall.
@Erik_Arnqvist2 ай бұрын
And this is why it’s high on my personal list too like it was a super chaotic pug key which I enjoy greatly
@fastydaveАй бұрын
Imagone not knowing EoA was a M+ dungeon brought back in Legion Timewalking
@Crazyhorrse3 ай бұрын
My favorite memories about Shrine of the storm is joining pugs on bolstering weeks just for pure entertainment and seeing which mobs will be made into 40 man raid bosses before people start noping out and disband.
@SuperHoggs3 ай бұрын
Great listen, really enjoyed this from start to finish
@bengixd3 ай бұрын
gooning to this
@Corrupted3 ай бұрын
great content! please do another one with the worst m+, best raids, best bosses, etc etc!
@Delarissa3 ай бұрын
I just wanted to bring something up. Vanilla Ice Cream is not bland, Vanilla is a flavour that I specifically seek out as an ice cream as when it's made with actual Vanilla pods, it's amazing.
@DivideresАй бұрын
The Gingi slap is for me still a clip that brightens my day :D
@RalphEvangelista2 ай бұрын
Dorki saying "fish stick" and dratnos chuckling like a damn teenager is big vibes
@Chimeraiam21 күн бұрын
After thinking about it, I actually think the recipe for good m+ dungeons is pretty simple now. 1. Wide open, not cramped spaces 2. Short to medium in length 3. Big trash pulls 4. Interesting bosses
@Rhaze73 ай бұрын
Dratnos with some major memorable quotes here! Love it!
@bramboter3 ай бұрын
A top 5/10 wishlist dungeons to get or return in m+ would also be cool
@toasted_ll3 ай бұрын
i loved the tree boss as a bdk, i was doing 26 keys with out clearing him my team can just chill while im stressing but its the most fun because i actually had to think about my cooldowns and one fuck up i was dead but it was so fun, got the heart pumpin
@Jay-4073 ай бұрын
Last season of m+ was goated imo. Gonna be hard to top that season in terms of the dungeon pool
@DerNesor3 ай бұрын
Dorky is becoming more and more that "I don't like it because you like it character" xD
@lovelywaz3 ай бұрын
I see, Kings' Rest won HANDEDLY right from the start! 👌👌
@Gabrielor8912 күн бұрын
agreed on Eye of Azshara. Great, great M+. Flexible on where you get mob kill from, can mount, fair bosses (minus the Naga Witch, which eventually made Prydaz mandatory if tyrannical and high enough), the ship skip was great. Overall, my favorite in a good collection of Legion M+'s.
@moldgrim12 ай бұрын
Prime content. From a pug, no coms tank/healer: can't say I agree on all of it, but a lot of good info and viewpoints here.
@nickolasroper32373 ай бұрын
I DIED LAUGHING Waycrest Manure!
@arjana38622 ай бұрын
Hot Shrine of the storm take: I loved that dungeon because on the last boss as a healer my damage actually mattered. (big fat debuff boost) Edit: Ah dratnos hit upon this point, i commented too fast :D
@Jehandr3 ай бұрын
omg no the Other Side? It's such a complete dungeon
@solomonahmad1642 ай бұрын
Absolutely wild 5 of the dungeons on this list come from BFA. I enjoying doing M+ the most in this expansion, the only issue for me was having to roll for corruption. Once you could buy it, it got even better. (I only played for the last 6-8 months of the expansion after a lot of QOL was added).
@Lionelhutz-attorney-at-law3 ай бұрын
The averagea timer for DF dungeons is currently 35.6 mins? Might be tough to beat with 30 average in TWW
@Crazyhorrse3 ай бұрын
Atal Dzar always has a special place in my heart. In BFA I was a mythic raider mostly and pugged for keys. Being a high DPS on server I feel like i carried so many pugs through AD and Yaz and it was rewarding. I haven't heard this much but Yaz in a high key in BFA with a SP in group was unreal. Spiders growing and walking crossways though streams of shadow apparitions all over the room forever on Tyrannical is some wild shit. BFA Underrot isn't the sexy pick but the true #1.
@Oliyox2 ай бұрын
Putting Azure Vaults in the discussion is crazy to me.
@coleragsdale48273 ай бұрын
I did pugs in atal dazar and going right sucked ass. Left was still easier than right in a bug, yet everyone still went right
@alacritysp3 ай бұрын
The seed clip is legendary
@Vikingeek3 ай бұрын
I think a big part of the issue of the Tree boss in Waycrest, considering the "meta" for the season was that you often just had to pray the roots would go on the augvoker, because the augvoker couldn't help nuke the roots fast enough to save people. xD I also think you almost need to bring in an "average pug champion" player for reference. Someone that perennially plays a non-meta dps spec and just about manages to hit KSM by the end of the season. It's only in DF that I've really stepped up and started pushing keys harder rather than just doing raids, and while I fully appreciated at the time how some of the pre-DF dungeons would play very differently in a properly coordinated group, pugging mid teen level keys trying to push to 15's to get KSM... man that is some of the worst PUG experiences you can get, and it totally skews perceptions of certain dungeons for sure! Like the bosses in Gambit being a good example: the dragon boss, you guys said something along the lines of how having a good or bad tank made a big difference, but in the 13-15 range it was more "did the tank even know they had to do mechanics", and don't even get me started on those 13-15 level final boss pug players not knowing how to do the lines through the orbs... xD
@carteks13 ай бұрын
Atal’dazar as a pug only player would possibly be in my least favorite dungeon list. Entire dungeon was braindead and then pugs can’t do the last boss for shit 75% of the time. Such a fucking waste of time.
@ThePolarpop3 ай бұрын
Yeah but if they didnt absolutely ruin the last boss...coulda been a fun speed run pug dungeon
@carteks13 ай бұрын
@@ThePolarpop could have, but, they did unfortunately.
@sooolangweilig3 ай бұрын
Fronk appreciation comment
@davidloureiro72943 ай бұрын
Max making WoW lists is the content I live for. I just love lists.
@er6243 ай бұрын
Thanks for this boys - great listen
@Jaredius3 ай бұрын
BIS trink in shrine for Sin…that dungeon grew on me and I loved it.
@RhodesianSuperiority2 ай бұрын
13:50 if i could change m+ in any way i wanted, it wouldn’t be affixes or routing. It would be to just drop healthpools and make every dungeon sub 20:00’ or 25:00’ minutes. Short dungeons feel so much more rewarding and satisfying when you just CRUSH THEM
@radicuris3 ай бұрын
How is Fall in your top 10, 3 months ago y'all put it barely in C tier, it has so many issues
@gruncleiroh55253 ай бұрын
It has issues as a dungeon with role play, the map, m0 tuning, and other things but as a spammable key it's goated
@radicuris3 ай бұрын
@@gruncleiroh5525i get that but with that many issues it shouldnt be eligible for top 10 ever. All it was good for is easy timed runs because you could wipe 46 times and still 2chest
@Ironloss3 ай бұрын
The list is based on personal preference. That’s his personal preference list lol
@Sven27113 ай бұрын
The comparison to hirumareds list is missing sadly, that would have spiced this up by a ton
@samschulman36633 ай бұрын
It was mentioned in some text near the beginning, they didn’t include it because they didn’t want to eat hirumared’s lunch, and instead direct people to his video. They’re being respectful
@IIIEPINEPHRINE3 ай бұрын
Growls take on Halls of Valor at 49:58 was SO needed. That dungeon sucks.
@Crazyhorrse26 күн бұрын
Growl in back loading bullets in a clip ready to unload on Halls of Valor was hilarious.
@7upyourzАй бұрын
Would be cool to see a list that's not all about the great push or mdi or high level keys and just about enjoyment or lore
@lactoseintolerantgaming27113 ай бұрын
Interesting that Halls of Atonement was only on two lists and so low. I feel like it we definitely see it in future seasons because it was so ironically Shadowlands and pug friendly
@birogknight3523 ай бұрын
ML will always have a special place in my heart of all the wow dungeons, it was my first timed +20
@Proverb.Ай бұрын
Nobody had Iron Docks sheesh I loved that dungeon, I also thought very highly of Sanguine Depths. Pretty sure I had the most fun doing M+ overall in Shadowlands, I liked every dungeon a lot other than Plaguefall.
@ThePluviaumbra2 ай бұрын
Theater of Pain has a special place in my heart ♥
@AndreasMnck2 ай бұрын
Absolute banger of a video.
@RobTunes2 ай бұрын
7:31 At this moment, Growl and Dratnos became my favorites for the episode lol Also Fronk is god tier
@ericmats46623 ай бұрын
Galakrond, and shrine of the storm is two of my "worst of all time" dungeons. Just goes to show how people like different things :D
@Aeder422 ай бұрын
I can't believe the global combat on the sanguine depths gauntlet wasn't mentioned.
@DirewoofАй бұрын
maw of souls 1st blackrook hold 2nd freehrld 3rd for me! So fun.
@arma12183 ай бұрын
Growl making me wish I could go back and play sanguine depths with a new mindset
@BlakeMTG3 ай бұрын
Great video, v well edited fronk keep it up dude
@chilimaggaming3 ай бұрын
Really great content and I don't do M+ any more.
@simkont67933 ай бұрын
Speaking about top 10 m+ dungeons, hope blizzard brings back awakened affix again some time its 100% the best and most fun affix they ever did.
@jonathanmcelroy74573 ай бұрын
I agree with them that Underrot coming back took some poinst off for me but only because I have the worlds worst RNG and I was stuck in Underrot prison for a good 3 weeks where I only ran Underrot keys trying to get the damn fist weapon to drop for my DH
@og_ktg3 ай бұрын
I feel like they nailed it with Gambit and Sanguine being the best 2 (motherlode uhhh yeah i disagree there) Both incredible, gambit is my 1 but sanguine depths is definitely top 3 for me, that place was fucking sick. Most interesting bosses, the theme was sick, and the gauntlet felt really good honestly.
@Lionelhutz-attorney-at-law3 ай бұрын
Nah Motherlode is great. I think on teeming weeks it sucked for people the most.
@sp1nandroll3 ай бұрын
Growl is based af. I have such fond memories healing SD that was an amazing dungeon.
@Epicmission483 ай бұрын
Ragefire Casm. No joke it’s probably my favorite dungeon in totality.
@brian634593 ай бұрын
Algethar and Freehold definitely had the most fun pulls, coming from a player who doesnt go past 20
@KatieKatastrophee3 ай бұрын
Growl fuckin BASEDDDDDDDD. Sanguine Depths OWNS
@Askfornate3 ай бұрын
Great video! #TeamSargeras #TeamDetheroc Azure Vaults, SoS and Eye was/is too big/too long. I loved Waycrest Manor, lol!
@nahreallytho65833 ай бұрын
I love that dorki thinks non MDI players just get confused when the dungeon isnt linear and run around like headless chickens into a wall in the starting room ahaa. Guy needs to pug a little hes got it too easy
@Sadistichippo3 ай бұрын
Honestly though, that’s an accurate description of so many of the pugs I’ve been in.
@johnmassey26322 ай бұрын
i get 2-3 hours, 5 nights a week to play. if they went down 5 minutes on their dungeon times, id be tickled. thats one more dungeon i get to clear every day
@SaltyZera3 ай бұрын
Growl's top ten is the best simply because SD is #1. Also, I am totally disgusted that NOBODY mentioned Plaguefall. I know it gets a lotta flack for the MDI BS that happened, but holy shit that dungeon is amazing.
@NightKnight19963 ай бұрын
Surprised Mechagon dungeons didn't get mentioned. I guess having Junkyard bots carrying the dungeon wasn't great.
@mcquade502 ай бұрын
Where’d you get that wallpaper? So sick
@beverlydingus2 ай бұрын
i feel like i'm smoking balls for loving junkyard so much. i loved the last season of BFA, and maybe it's the robots that people hated, but i think junkyard was so good
@hallo-mt5tx3 ай бұрын
best dungeon was seat of the triumvirate in legion m+ invitational was just hilarious with the amount of wipes
@miturtow3 ай бұрын
Maw of Souls, let's go!
@painfullyavarage43163 ай бұрын
Fall was a good dungeon because you had the ability to pull bigger or smaller depending on how high the key was. It was super fun being able to pull 4 dragons or the entire first area on a weekly without being a complete joke on higher keys. Being able to just blast a huge pull without that much coordination is fun
@dzinx0rrr3 ай бұрын
"because you had the ability to pull bigger or smaller depending on how high the key was" I don't wanna destroy your logic there my friend, but you have that choice in every possible m+ dungeon :)
@painfullyavarage43163 ай бұрын
@@dzinx0rrr not really, a lot of the time you can’t realistically change pull size. Rise last season is a good example, you could kinda pull bigger in the first area if you wanted but every other spot you were gated by rp and low mob density. Same with spires of ascension, you physically can’t pull more than a few mobs at a time in 80% of the dungeon.
@MiiMiiOwO3 ай бұрын
lower kara was so bad that it almost made me quit the game
@ElScoobarino3 ай бұрын
The stupid kid bit was so fucking funny
@stynbeats2 ай бұрын
There is this one dungeon where u kill a professor who drinks like vials and after that you go through a part where you need to kill invisible spiders(?) fast enough while the boss tries unlocking a door? i know im a bit all over the place i just cant think of the name of the dungeon
@stynbeats2 ай бұрын
I found it! Plaguefall :)
@cbts73 ай бұрын
Halls of Atonement on top, hopefully we have it back in TWW.
@Onslaught5163 ай бұрын
"Here comes the forest"🤣 48:40
@Kekoleet3 ай бұрын
Eye of azshara will always be tainted because thats also when they gave hunters barrage, and thats the first dungeon where every one of them got to learn how to use it properly. but great dungeon
@averyward75203 ай бұрын
Banger vid as always.
@rezc59393 ай бұрын
Great video idea goodjob
@siXti663 ай бұрын
cant wait for your next 4h video about your top 3 npcs in the game.
@el3ctros3 ай бұрын
Aren't the chains in nelth a damage amp now? They used to do damage like TD cannons.
@CrippsyS3 ай бұрын
Algethar Academy is hands down the best dungeon Blizz have ever created. Mass AoE, no egregious mobs, great designs bosses (tree boss one of the best ever). 5% star buff at the start. What’s not to love? 😎
@Kelsousername3 ай бұрын
100% agree with Growl's number 1
@tailee70203 ай бұрын
Just here to shout out to Max that I have Shrine of the Storm in my top 5
@drakedbz3 ай бұрын
I agree with a lot of these, but I think my list would be very heavily SL s4 biased. That entire season was just an absolute banger. The only dungeon I actually hated was upper kara. Workshop could get a bit rough, but the rest were fantastic. The biggest disagreement I have with any of these lists is sanguine depths. The second boss just farms pugs, so I never got my portal for that dungeon.
@beantot1272 ай бұрын
saying someone is wrong for saying it was a worst raid boss on a video made 9 years ago before we had current iterations of boss design is odd and elitist
@JaydeeDJАй бұрын
Underrot has got to be the worst pug experience I've had this expansion by a mile. Ninja pulls galore, endless deaths to frontals, combat not dropping on death so an entire train of maggots comes rushing back, individuals being able to grief every boss except the first. Second boss on tyrannical had about a 50% deplete rate. Only Fortified+Afflicted VP specifically made for as miserable of an experience as this dungeon from a healer POV. I stopped signing up for this key at some point. Only redeeming thing about Underrot is that it made me look for a more stable M+ group and leave the pug world behind. F tier is too high for Underrot xd.
@BlastHeart962 ай бұрын
What’s the name of Maximum’s Plater Profile?
@jameysotelo5403 ай бұрын
Honestly i aside from algethar academy i like everyones dungeons. for me the dungeon is fun and the only way for me to say its actually good is if i turn off all sound and only have dbm yelling at me. god does that dungeon annoy the heck out of me lol