STATISTICALLY LEBRON isnt passing JORDAN.. JORDAN won more in less years. JORDAN also averages 30PPG and lead the league in POINTS 10 times. LEBRON scores more due to the simple fact that he played more seasons and most of those seasons in a ERA with games ending with 120 POINTS.

Lol this guy is stupid . Ronaldo is the greatest no debate .

Really liked that my chess GOAT defended my Football GOAT. He didn't react on twitter on Messi's WC win, I hope you get his reaction soon on Channel.

Your thoughts on Ronaldinho?

Messi is the goat 🐐 but Ronaldinho is the most skilful of all time

It's an experience to eat a sandwich

I'll cry wherever I am the day he announces his retirement

Zidane

It is definitely closed.

it was closed long before the WC

but it gave maradonna the edge. took mediocre teams napoli and argentina to glory

Both are the most naturally gifted players of all time.

In terms of just elegance, playfulness and skills I still think there was no one better than Ronaldinho. Messi is beautiful to watch but even he just can't reach Ronaldinho in those aspects.

also without world cup :D

@@PsychoGallagher Ronaldinho was more of a trickster. Messi dribbles as if he can see 10 seconds into the future.

only manu/madrid fans say ronaldo is the goat every other football fan/player thats not associated with ronaldo has said messi is the goat its common knowledge idk how its even a debate

bro madrid fans knows that messi is the greatest they just dont admit it

@@jiahaogoh2822 I'm a real madrid fan before cr7 came and i always said that messi is better and I get called a plastic fan everytime haha. Both are great, but Messi is just a genius

@@alibee2083 i think most ‘real’ real madrid fans would also agree messi is the goat haha. not to discredit ronaldo im heavily inspired by his work ethic and his life story but watching messi play is just incomparable

I just happen to live in Barca at the time and I had loved football all my life. (2009) And I actually couldn't believe it was real! I always wondered what a nightmare it must have been for Madrid or any other team to had to go up against Messi. A player who could seemingly make goals from out of nothing. It was mind-boggling to watch in real time. How do you stop him? There was no reliable way! Play rough, he'd just... somehow ride the tackle, dribble a couple of players and pass it into the goal. Try to force him to his right? Well, you just gave him time to dismantle the whole defense! I was never a religious man but I swear to whatever is holy, that man, Messi, was a miracle. Words are not enough.

Not even Messi's peak imo, goal scoring wise sure but he's had better years.

But I guess that just shows how great he is, because for anyone else that would be by far their best, not even debatable

@@yoyo-tx6zg it was his peak, madness to say otherwise.

@@benjones4974 goalscoring wise. But 14/15 as an overall player is even better imo. Even 18/19, the way he carried an incredibly average team close to a champions league was one of the craziest things I've ever seen in football. But if you just want to focus on goals and not actually watch the football itself then sure, 2012 was his peak

@@yoyo-tx6zg I agree with you. 11/12 he played as a pure centre forward in the strongest, most creative club side of all time, so of course he was going to score a ridiculous amount. Since then it's pretty clear if you watch him year after year that he became an even better player. More creative, more intelligent, better mentality and leadership.

Well put, even as a huge fan of ronaldo, the levels of difference in terms of natural talent and ability is and should never be in question. But I think greatness is more than talent - and that’s the only way an argument can be made. Like Diego made meady teams champions, was coked up and living the life. Playing on a surface that had mini hills on and defenders that tried breaking your legs. Also the 80s was football at a developed stage. For me maradona is the greatest and if he played in this era he’d be greater than messi

i have to agree with you when i played as a kid/teenager i quickly realized that i will probably never be able to play like messi stylewise (not even talking about skill here) but ronaldos style was more suited for me i was fast strong and could jump like a kangaroo so i just tried to be like cr7. And i honestly don’t understand the “hate” from both sides. My generation (born late 90s-2000) was truly blessed to see those two legends grow, compete and dominate

Same old argument, that Ronaldo is just hard work lol. Sporting isn't recruiting every player out of the streets at 11 years old, bringing them away from their families, just for them to work hard you know? There has to be talent already there. Overall they are diferent players, even thou young CR7 was dribling past several opponents, he was never going to be that type of player forever, tall players are rarely gifted with that. You need a short person to create such a player, like Messi, it's the only way to keep balance is having a short center of gravity. Then Ronaldo is a player that uses tricks and expects a reaction of the opponent to move the ball where he wants to go. Which he was able to do for a long time. The quickness, reaction time he used to do this is one of his many talents. Many players have this talent, but it can't be thought I believe, you can try it, but you can only go so far with it. When it comes to dribling CR7 was one of those rare guys that could put the ball infront of anyone and get there first, I remember Thierry Henry, and R9 could do this aswell. R9 was crazy with it, because he did it being obese in the end of his career, shit you don't see in movies. This can be trained of course not to the extent of a R9 but yeah... Messi is diferent the way he dribles is using several techniques, if you go and watch his plays he does the same things, it's about 10 techniques/dribles/ball control(he does at high speed, which is nuts). He does them in a split second, always with his left foot, they are there automatized, for when he needs them, and he always makes the right choice. YOU CAN TRAIN this. Reaching his level, that is another story. Then he also has crazy acceleration, explosiveness. You can't go past several people without it. Football is all about the first few meters. And then when he is in trouble he does the same techniques but with is right foot, and that is a whole new level. CR7 relied in tricks/feints more then dribling, and Messi just dribled over anyone. Both playmakers, Ronaldo more important in defense to his team, way better aerial ability (then anyone ever I believe). We can't even compare them much behond this. Messi has always been the same type of player and Ronaldo has been like 3 diferent players that I can remember, he adapted his game. And he had too, because he grew much taller then he was when he arrived at Man Utd and because he played diferent positions and teams. Many good players disapear because they can't do this. They are great at 19 years old and at 22 they disapear. I believe that was where his hard work mentality became a factor. He coulda been a wonder kid(well he already had a balllon dor) that "flopped" after he joined Madrid but he went on to become a Real Madrid legend. These 2 deserve to be reconised as the best ever, because nobody else has been at the top for 15 years before. Only them Great players have 3 great seasons in them max, this is why we can't argue Ronaldinho, R9 in the same sentence as this guys, not even Maradona and I believe he was way better then Messi. And it's going to be a long time before we see a player like them again.

@@lordmarshall642 listen Cr7 is talented but Messi is too Gifted You can't be Ronaldo with hard work .

Messi has never dribbled past 11 players bro, ever

I hope he does well this World Cup

No, there is a debate, hence the existence of the debate.

@@craigr4763 just because people choose to have a debate, doesnt mean that the debate is valid. It is overwhelmingly in favour of messi, it is like debating flat earth. Yes people can debate it, but its silly.

What do you mean statistically? Statistically Ronaldo's the best goal scorer EVER in champions league and overall

@@zak2659 I agree with you in principle that not all debates are justifiable, you're absolutely right, but I think you're wrong to suggest that it applies here. I'm not just imagining that there's a debate -there actually is one, and crucially it's not just among random people on the internet, but among scholars. Sorry, the debate is perfectly legitimate.

I am a casual football fan and even I have a hard time comprehending how anyone can say Ronaldo is better than Messi.

Messi hasn't done anything since Xavi n Iniesta left. Finally won the Copa America after 15 tries vs the almighty Chile. From Eibar to Nantes assist hat trick merchant now 😁GOAT!

@@doliniplanini2260 Wont change the fact that ball on the feet Messi is a better player and there's nothing you can do about it, atp you're just trying to be different but one day you'll understand

@@doliniplanini2260 ok sherrif man

To say not even close to Messi, it’s a bit exaggerated.. CR7 is along with Messi one of the greatest. You don’t need to be choosing. Some ppl might prefer, Maradona ,others Pelé, others Cruyff.. Messi didn’t invent football nor you decide who’s the best for everyone else. Also, on the big matches, against the big teams when it really matters Messi tends to shy away. Just an observation, dribbling 5 players of Getafe, is not the same than dribbling 5 player of England’s national team on a World Cup quarter final..

So refreshing to see a comment about these two acknowledging both their greatness. Absolutely agree

@Free One Ronaldinho hahahhaha

Ishowspeed😂

I dont acknowledge ronaldo's greatness. and i dont fucking have to. stop shoving it down people's throats. I think that ronaldinho, kaka, zidane, ronaldo phenomeno were all better players. I'm tired of people acting like it's a fucking crime to say that ronaldo isn't great.

lmao ronaldo is dogshit compared to messi.

he quit chess to drink live on stream with 19 year olds...

@Chiave - Interestingly, even Messi himself said that Ronaldo Nazario was his favourite player and something similar to what you said about him. However, for me, Pele was the best of all time. No question about it.

Facts even after career ending injury R9 was very special. Most complete player of all the time.

@@wiseonwords You weren’t even alive when he was playing 🤣🤣

@@wiseonwords lol padded record Pele?

@@wiseonwords He was a good striker but definitely not the greatest.

exactly!

Manchester United wins even when Maguire isn't on the pitch. That's class!

@@mickeytete9036 - Many would say that Ten Hag has finally discovered Maguire's best position - on the bench!

2022 france was stronger

no it isn't close if you study basketball

Ronaldo has quantifiably more goals , more champions league trophies and more International success than Messi...

@@Maiso23m you’re blind

@@Maiso23m 40 more goals in 140 games… use your small brain

@@Maiso23m Messi has a better goal percentage, starting with that. He has more assists also.

Ronaldinho definitely. Dude played as if the ball was just another part of his body,

Peak R9 in my opinion could match Ronnie skill wise

​@@ShiNooBi1986 Agreed, even though his peak was quite short lived because of his injuries, R9 was pretty much the best thing I have seen in football to date. Messi is just pure effectiveness with the ball and probably no one can match him at that

Yes! Ronaldino and Zidane should be always mentioned if there is a debate on who is the GOAT

@@jonasjonas8358 yea Messi is Arguably the GOAT. His close control, dribbling, agility, quick brain is something I've never seen and probably never will. But the Kid in me will always love R9s pace, power, Brazilian flair and finishing with power in both feet. R9 had it all and then some. Ibra, Henry, Ronnie and Messi all Idolised him too remember

😂😂 In just a few matches. Everyone with a brain knows that this is prone to distortions.

So what European titles did CR7 win with Juve if CR7 stood up when he was needed? How many leagues did CR7 stand up for to win for Real? Plus your using the Liverpool tie? Didn't Messi score 2? And the Bayern game that I'm presuming the 8-2 tie. Did you expect Messi to score 7 whilst also defending? Or are you taking about the 2015 tie where he scored 2? Cherry picking ties is so weak, its embarrassing.

Ronaldo carried a crap Portugal to its first ever title, carried a crap United with only the goalkeeper performing by himself at the age of 37, Messi has never done that before.

I don’t agree about Cristiano Ronaldo. To me he is one of if not the most overrated player ever. Plus, he always played in great teams full with big players. Real Madrid won LaLiga and UCL in the same season with old dogs like Benzema, Modric, Kroos (same players Cristiano played with but much older). He was a great stats machine and for the most part his goals benefited him. Real had a great team, Man Utd won 2 more titles after he left (Sir Alex could win the EPL with people like Anderson and Fletcher). And he didn’t do nothing in Juve. They were clearly more dominant before him. However, Maradona is the greatest. Messi is second.

Haha u keep saying that but diferent times and I bet Maradona wouldn't be able to do that with Napoli in the Era and no single handedly no he didn't cuz he wasn't a defender or a mid filder or a goal keeper right? Stop saying that stupid shit

Agree

Messi dropped out of the top 30 best players ever, Ronaldo has never done that.

I'm definitely not a hardcore fan of soccer/football, but the soccer GOAT topic interests me from an outsiders perspective. Most takes I read seem based on fans watching Messi and CR7. For the few discussions I've seen, the fans also seem too young to have seen Maradona or Pele (the only other 2 I hear in the convo). So for the sport, do you have to actually have seen the player to make an opinion? My personal priority for any sport is wining #1 and everything else factored in after that since the purpose of all sports I know is to win in the end. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but Messi seems like people's favorite to watch even if he doesn't win the most. CR7 wins more, but the separation is watching them on the pitch. Maradona and Pele historically seem more revered for their winning in addition to their skill. Can someone give me a little more insight?

@@mrfab4383 your point? Lol that literally doesn’t take anything away from Messi.

@@gumballwaterson1957 Messi literally has the second most trophies in history won by an individual behind Dani Alves,whom he will surpass by the end of this current season.

@@cristianalexander8861 Just trying to learn more about the topic since I don't follow the sport closely enough to tell if an opinion is BS or not. CR7 vs. Messi seemed to always break down to CR7 (and team) winning more, but Messi with more individual awards and having a more beautiful game to watch. Maradona and Pele lore seems based on wins they produced and skills or moment, though I don't really hear much about how Maradona and Pele played as compared with Messi which is mostly what I hear/see/read. That's why I asked if the sport is one where the opinion of a player is mostly based on eye test. It's not trolling. Legit question from someone's who's ignorant but curious. There's no way I'm going to watch a ton of games of any of the 4 to get an idea of what everyone else is saying, but I do want to get ideas on how the conversation is framed.

Yeah, not like that interview was before Diego's passing. Lmao some argument.

@@f7empest They actually find out in that interview Diego has passed. Wake up buddy

So does every player that played for Brazilian national team in the 60s. No one cares.

@@DannyIMCF Vampeta>Messi

@@FlightLevelAviation LOL

Probably to bait comments and engagements from people who get offended over what people call a sport

Good job remembering people that is not usually remembered. Cruyff said: "I can play like Di Stéfano (1), but can't play like Pelé" (1) Was probably the only one ever that could deliver on that, and did deliver. GOAT is a very short list, and I pretty much agree with this list as long as Ronaldo shirt number is 9. In that list, I believe anyone could be argued for it.

My dad would disagree with you. He is 75 years old, he's watched all of the greats including Maradonna, Cruyff, Maldini, Shearer etc. His favourite player was Pele until around 2011-2012 when i made him watch a random La Liga match. I don't even remember which team Barça played against but Messi scored a brace and made multiple complete dribbles. This was the year he scored 91 goals. A few weeks after that, he starts sending me KZfaq videos of Messi's highlight and came to the conclusion, Messi is just better. He's a die hard Brazilian fan btw and again, Pele was his favourite since he was a teenager. But few games of Leo is all it took.

Indeed. His plays and skills are incredible too.

Calendar year, not season

True

No dude, it’s called soccer. It was invented in the greatest country in the world(America). We wear socks here when playing, that’s why it’s called soccer.

@@bobzyurunkel i think you have been living in your parents' basement...can you travel outside USA and see what is going on? Football was invented in the UK and internationally is known as football(the most famous sport in the world)...

@@MMATopGs Nice try bruh. Everyone knows football was invented in Australia.

@@bobzyurunkel created by UK in the 19th century

Ronaldo: 2 Cristiano: 0

@@gerardomalazdrewicz7514 🔥

​@@gerardomalazdrewicz7514 PORTUGAL VS BRAZIL ARGENTINA 😂. MESSI WOULD RETIRE AT 25 IF HE IS IN PORTUGAL LETS BE HONEST . MESSI PLAYED FOR HISTORIC ARGENTINA . R9 GOT CARRIED BY PRIME BRAZIL

​@gerardomalazdrewicz7514 PORTUGAL VS BRAZIL ARGENTINA 😂. MESSI WOULD RETIRE AT 25 IF HE IS IN PORTUGAL LETS BE HONEST . MESSI PLAYED FOR HISTORIC ARGENTINA . R9 GOT CARRIED BY PRIME BRAZIL

@@rogger972 No matter how many times you repeat it, does not make it true. Remember pre-Qatar (at its start, that is) Portugal was considered a better squad than Argentina. Portugal finally won Euro when found Cris' best position: cheerleader.

They were not good! Argentina changed their system just before the World Cup started became they conceded way too many goals leading up to the Tournament.

Yeah, Monaco's substitute GK Romero, Man Utd bench warmer Marcos Rojo, Garay who was sold to Zenit St Petersburg, Enzo Perez who was sold to Valencia to become a bench warmer, Federico Fernandez who was a substitute at Getafe, Augusto Fernandez from Celta are good players to you? And Aguero that season played just 23 league games due to injury and Di Maria was sold to Man Utd that summer by Real Madrid and he got injured before the final. You see a defence pair of Rojo, Garay and Romero as gk, Mascherano as DM and think they are good compared to Mats Hummels, Baoteng, Mertesacker, Lahm at defence, Schweinsteiger, Khedira, Ozil,, Kroos at MF and Neuer as GK?

Disagree, even R9 and Ronaldinho at their peaks don't come close to Messi. Messi could playmake like Ronaldinho, dribble like R9 and score like CR7. Not to mention pass like Laudrup.

the fact that messi dissapeared after moving to psg speaks for itself. He isnt even close to CR's greatness.

Pre injury ronaldo had 15 goals in 43 champions league games, won 0 champions leagues and 1 league title despite playing for the best teams in the world. He’s so overrated it’s not even funny

@@Gojimaru lmao what a dumb comment. Messi has Ronaldo's goal scoring record plus he's the best assister of all time. Cry more 🤣

@@Mopark25 Ok kid. You can sit down now.

He's like Wilt Chamberlain. The game was too different back then. Fewer teams, players, different rules and officiating standards, tactics and style of play. It's almost a different sport. Also, many Brazilians will tell you that Garincha was the better Brazilian footballer.

Most people that remembers pele are already dead so yes

He's also a poet

He played in the best Argentina ever and Barcelona. Don't lie

"and won best player of the tournament as a losing finalist. That never happens." Modric, Kahn, Forlan, Zidane, Ronaldo (98)... Giving that award to a losing finalist (or 3rd place) is pretty much the standard in the past 30 years.

It happens for Modric in 2018 tho, but yeah i agree the worldcup is just the cherry on the cake and rn the cake is huge and tasty 👿

“By far the GOAT” lmao Who the fuck is pele and Maradona right? No merit in revolutionizing the sport

Well said.

I mean, technically Australia and USA both use "soccer" which the USA, at least, got from the English so....? And since it's pretty clear you know the USA uses soccer, it's kinda hard to say "in English" unless you're implying British English is the end all be all. Not super serious, but just saying. All love though

I love Zidane but on that note I would put Iniesta up there with Zidane.

Yeah messi is better than zidane but there is something about how zidane touches the ball as if he can turn the ball into a cotton, his dribbling is so smooth and delicate

Ability. Legacy is simply Ability + Luck and Circumstance

Messi and pele has both, it's hard to argue against them

@@madworker1927 I’m going off his early united career. That would be when I watched him consistently the most.

He ain't even the best Ronaldo. There's Cristiano Ronaldo then there's the real one. R9. Phenomeno

@@ShiNooBi1986 nope. That’s utter shite. You can have talent and not be able to utilise it. Which due to no fault of his own was the problem for R9.

@@HandsomeFlackoJodye that take is more shite lol he utilised it at a very youn age doing what he did and what he won. It was a shame he got those injuries tbh but CR7 ain't even close to 20 year old Ronaldo. Ask Ibra, Henry and Messi lol the real ones know but you can have your opinion that's fine man ✌️

@@ShiNooBi1986 when you can continue to do something for more than a decade. That’s real talent!

Pele can play easily in this era. By far the best football player ever

@@cerveshred even the limited video we have (and the stuff from his time playing professionally in America doesn't count because other than Kyle Rote Jr. No one could play) shows his amazing skill. I believe a case can be made that at his peak he was the greatest athlete of all time too.

@@JimPfaff LOL what makes Pele the greatest football player ever? If you made the case for Maradona being the greatest ever that would be hard to dispute but Pele honestly I don't get the hype he played in a mediocre league.

@@Ali-qc4qo clearly his World Cup record stands out. Listen, I was always a huge Maradona fan. He was clearly awesome. But to Pelè, he had a better career. Played in COPA averaging nearly a goal per game (692 games 618 goals). Three World Cup championships. More than twice the goals as Maradona in the World Cup. He has 77 goals in 92 games on the Brazil national teal.wit 77 goals. Messi has more goals (92) but in 162 games. I could keep going. The numbers are astounding. And football around the world is much like American baseball in that you can compare players in different eras well since the foundations of rhe game haven't substantively changed. Personal conditioning is better now, but that becomes an inconsequential difference in that relative conditioning was the same for players in different eras with their contemporaries. This isn't really isn't a controversial thing ranking Pelè the best. You may disagree. But it's not at all controversial. And I say that as about the biggest Messi fan who is a native American.

You are not a big Messj fan stop with the lies! What the hell makes Pele better than Messi. Messi is much better.

he's right tho, in just a month using your logic now all of a sudden messi is better than almost everyone in your list just because he wins the wc. It's hard to take someone's opinion seriously when they can only formulate an opinion thanks to a single trophy without truly understanding how football works

If they were, then every modern GOAT contender should have at least one...oh wait....

Not on football.

@@njldst2007 Why? The guy is right, wc are very overrated. Dont go along with the hype.

​@@issi529 The guy is not right just as I am not necessarily right either, it's a subjective opinion, there is no black and white, right or wrong in this. The main reason many to most Argentinians still don't put Messi above Maradona is because Maradona won them the World Cup. That is a fact, you can argue with the reasoning behind it all you want, as it is an opinion, but it doesn't change the fact that people who rate the WC rate it. Either way, pretty presumptuous of you to assume I'm 'going along with the hype'. Small tip, just because someone doesn't share an opinion of yours, doesn't mean they don't have the same knowledge or are not aware of the same facts you are, people come to different conclusions with the same variables in place, that's how free thinking works

@@njldst2007 Indeed. Its a opinion. But if people think that a wc makes a player bigger or better is also a opinion. And not a fact. Messi won much more than maradona in his career thats also a fact.

Lol hell no dude

@@gabrielreyes2790 who else

@@delayedcreator4783 michael jordan

@@gabrielreyes2790 what a joke🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Man, ARG-BRA rivalry is much older than Maradona himself (the person, not the player).

KOBE PRIME was missing the play-offs or struggling to get the last places so please stop talking about basketball...

@@flip3249 been in North America way too long.

Lol

He also did it with cocaine. While Messi dominated europe for at least 15 years. Consistency in a much tougher tactical era. And btw, in Maradonna's era, no one was spending millions.

@@DarthwRath lol

@@urbansamurai261 it’s true