Yes, i know waht you mean....the 59/62s certainly looked sad, as did the drivers i should imagine!

I hope so, i would like to get out again and make some more films.......

It’s weird too, I am roughly the same age but it doesn’t feel like that many years ago.

@@forza223bowe5 I got a video camera in 1985 and have been filming ever since, around 35 years now.....but it certainly doesn't feel like it!

Yes, LT tried various paint schemes until they settled on one they liked......

Some of the 1962 stock was transferred from the Central line to the Northern line to get rid of the 1972mk1 stock as they were much better in performance, simplified crew training and cut down on training and maintenance costs. Some of the 72mk1 cars were integrated with the 1967 cousins on the Victoria line but in the middle as they did not have automatic driving equipment. Others went to the Bakerloo line, refurbished and converted into driver only operation and are now half units with the mk2s, combined as one train.

Thank you.....And yes, the 59 does look odd painted up in LUL colours. The red one isn't too bad, looks a bit like a 38, which the 59s were really, a slightly improved version. the only other 59/62 stock to see any paint was a 62 on the Central Line in the early 1980s, it had a half red front like a D Stock to see if it made them any more noticeable to track workers. I assume it didn't as it did have the paint taken off in the end!

@@SoiBuakhaoRoutemasterbus The 1959 trains are almost identical to the 38 ones . If you take away the different light fixtures , the curved roof front and the interconnecting doors , the body shells of the 38 trains and 59 trains are identical , including the fronts . Same door shapes and same window shapes . I photo-shopped a 59 roof on to a 38 and it was seam-less . It looked like a painted 59 with a red front Sorry for the babble there , but I like pointing that out

@@balkywalkybalkbalkbalkbalk923 No worries... LT were looking at a new design for the Central Line, to replace the Standard Stock. The 1960 tube stock were the prototypes, the plan being to re-use Standard Stock trailer cars with new build 1960 stock Driving Motors. But the trailer cars were rotten and as the new trains were required quickly so more 59s were built, slightly updated which were the 62 stock! Although there were prototypes for the Picc replacement stock (the 56 stock) they all basically were the same, and as you said they were just an udated, aluminium 38 stock!

Erick Zucconi It was a “mongrel” fleet... during the mid 1980s we actually had 38, 56, (a couple of sets of prototype stock for the later 59s) 59, 62 and 72 mk1 stocks all running at the same time. I don’t think there ever been another fleet so diverse on the tube.

And some 72MkII's as well! Ones displaced from the Jubilee by the first 83s. Then in early 1986 the bakerloo put in for a stock change for all the MkII's as they were suitable for OPO conversion. The first to arrive were ex Northern Line ones in exchange for 59s. Bloody filth trains they were, covered in tunnel dust, doors all clogged up with the stuff as well. On some trains when they first came back, it could take 10+ seconds to get all the doors closed, some were so slow and hardly moved, you would loose lots of time. Horrible trains....and they're still running! With lots of running faults, and instructions not to use the FIS in event of failure, just push out every time......

Show me a northern line guard from the mid 80s who hadn’t walked down the train and given a well aimed kick at a door to get it moving at some point 😂. I can remember notching up quite often in the hope of shaking a stuck door so it would close, but like everything connected with public transport in the 80s, the tube was being starved of investment and stripped of staff and assets in the persuit of the political dogma of the day, much the same thing as has happened to local authorities and the NHS over the years. No FIS? Omg it has really gone to the wall, but then that much is obvious when I hear a whole line is closed due a signal failure, was a time that it could/would be worked around, I’ve spent more than a few minutes of my life sat at a tunnel signal while a technician worked at track level with my reverser key in his pocket, (usually listening to the controller frantically trying to reverse trains at various places to maintain service intervals) usually after he had used his few minutes I’d end up tripping past a still faulty signal and dropping him at the next station so he could travel back and repeat... happy days 😁😂 we did whatever it took to keep the service running.

@@warweezil2802 Yes, the job did keep moving back then, now it's all about giving up straight away. The 72 MkII's have had so many mods & refurb's they are an electrical nighmare these days. I well remember sticky doors but i'd happily keep a 59 running but look for any excuse to tip out a 72! Horrible trains....and freezing bloody cold to boot! Those we had on the Jubilee were just iceboxes in winter, unlike a nice warm 83, in the back cab, heaters on full blast.....lovely! We had a Sunday job that started on the Jubilee at Baker 10, Stnmore-Cross-wembley-Cross thhen off at Baker 7. In winter you just froze! It was a joy after grub to get back on the Bakerloo and warm up again! not once on that job did i ever get an 83, the best was an OPO conveted 72 where i was in the back cab with a modicum of warmth........

Soi Buakhao Oh yes my heart would sink waiting to pick up if I saw the headlights of a 72 coming towards Camden platforms.. I always preferred the older stocks of various vintages Even a draughty old 59 on a winter morning charging down the hole towards Sth Wimbledon as the windscreens misted up 😁. I could always get a smooth stop on the older pure ep equipment. Push outs were a last resort back then, god help the driver if depot staff found a pushed out unit should have been able to be driven back under its own power... especially if they had slammed them together A end to A end which of course required depot staff to separate. Having said all that... if I were still there now I’d probably be on the Bakerloo avoiding modern stocks as much as I could. Have been disappointed that TFW haven’t leased a few D trains to replace the Pacer crap they run on my local services, 2 hours to Swansea is a real ordeal on a Pacer, would have been nice to ride. D stock chassis again, they rode really nicely when I worked on them in 84/5.. wasn’t keen on the C stock either I hated duties that had any Edgware Rds on it the only upside was any duty that has DT at the “angle” and getting a lift from a passing train back to or from Earls Court

Yes, back in the day all was possible......

The 72 stocks especially the mk2 was what you wanted to see when you were waiting to pick your train up. Far better to drive than the others The best I ever drove was on the Victoria line 67 stock but that was a different era

@@AlanJolin I hated the 72s with a passion. A lot of running faults that Stonebridge never got on top of. Deadmen's handles not latching down properly and setting off the brakes were a constant bind. Plus all the mods & refurb's it's no wonder they are a mechanical & electrical nightmare. No using the FIS for faults, just push-out is the instructions....horrible, rancid trains.....

Soi Buakhao I agree with the refurbs with the self applied parking brakes maybe they got worse when I took severe ce I can remember ringing the depot foreman at Stonebridge Bruce Arnold when I sent a fitter back to him that didn’t know how to release the parking brake on a refurb who then tested the doors on the southbound platform both sides!!! With passengers onboard he never came to Queen’s Park again what was funny was that I had a suit on as normal and he believed I was a member of the public and gave me a load of back chat. When he found out who I was and I was sending him back to Stonebridge Park he went grey!

If you were in a trailer car it may well have been the compressors? They would cut in & out automatically as the air pressure dropped and was then built up again. The old stock had DC Motor Generators (and things like 72, 73 and beyond, AC alterantors) but these run continious while in service......

There's one on this upload here at 1.02.....kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fNGmocip1Z2sYas.html

Yes the mkll's only went as high as unit 63, the higher ones are the mkl's.....

Very few mk1s were transferred to the Bakerloo line, they have the rubber seals around the door windows. They are half units with the mk2s, combined as one train, although there are one or two complete mk1s Most of the withdrawn mk1s had their components recovered as spare parts and chopped up into little bits. I heard ex Victoria line 1967 stock had their components removed before chopping up. I saw one mk2 unit with a 1967 stock sky blue grab rail, they must have forgotten to repaint it Van Dyke brown. Wise move as with older stock like the 72 and 73 stock, parts become more difficult to get, maintainance, operational and repair costs become very expensive.

@@oludotunjohnshowemimo434 And some 67s still exist today

The last shot at Euston is a train i just got off of, it was still in service....

@@SoiBuakhaoRoutemasterbus Interesting... It's just that it looks like there was no one else on board, and it looked as though it was off into the sidings, and not carrying down towards King's Cross... Because it also looks like the cab door leading into the last carriage was open... I'd never doubt you though 😂

​@@SoiBuakhaoRoutemasterbusYes, although the northbound Bank Branch at Euston was diverted into the new platform when the Victoria Line construction works were taking place (thus dispensing with the old island platform there, as they did again with Angel some thirty years later!!) trains could still divert into the southbound platform at Euston for terminations/reversals.

It was to save on crew training costs. Only one type of stock is easier and quicker and saves on spares part stock in depots.

Could be a replacement from a scrap train due to a defective one....

@@SoiBuakhaoRoutemasterbus I have also seen a few mk II 1972 stock with replacement mk1 1972 stock doors also due to defective doors. It is a good thing that they recovered components from withdrawn ex Northern line 1972mk1 trains to keep the other 72s on the Bakerloo line running.

COOL!!! 😮

The one at 6.32 had stopped normally. It was just the fact i had been on it and lept off to film it leaving. The red painted train was a special livery that was applied in 1990 to celebrate the centenary of the Northern Line. Once an unpainted aliminium train has been painted it leaves a scar on the bodywork so it stayed red until withdrawl. A few cars live on, one i think at the Epping-Ongar Railway and 2 cars on Guernsey pulled by a diesel (search KZfaq, Geoff Marshall has done a vid on them).....

I think there were a lot of enthuisiast's involved with running the Northern Line. So one in retro red (never carried before on the 59s) and one in corporate.....all good fun!

Soi Buakhao Do you have any more old footage? Love seeing these videos

@@SoiBuakhaoRoutemasterbus The enthusiast responsible for the retro 2-tone red livery was none other than Piers Connor, who personally instigated it. There's a direct quotation from him when he admitted as much on Usenet, referenced on my website.

@@squarewheelsorguk Certainly a lot better than the badly scarred unpaint aluminium that we had at the time......

The 72 at Golders was still in service as far as i could tell. The 72's were the bar*ted off-spring of the 67s,modified for crew working although the MkII's were different again as were planned to be worked in ATO in the tunnel section of the Fleet Line (which was re-named to Jubilee) although this never happen. The reverser key barrel on the MkII's had an auto position although it didn't do anything.

​​@@SoiBuakhaoRoutemasterbusnd now some of these 1972mk1 stock are on the Bakerloo line.

If i had picked the right station i could have got a few Westinghouse 's on film! You can tell if a driver's cocked it up if they have to bring it to a stop on the EP rather than the Westinghouse.....

@@SoiBuakhaoRoutemasterbus LOL Yes indeed, the nack to lap the brake handle. I remember it was a bet in the cab to see whether the Motorman would bottle it and go for EP in the end!

I can recall one driver who coshed it at South Wimbledon when I was a Guard... got the Westinghouse totally wrong and stopped the 72 we were working with a hell of a bump. Worst thing was mixing the air and getting one car with brakes hanging on.

Chris Page yes I was told to blow down the brakes and recharge after using the Westinghouse to prevent dragging brakes.

EM176 Yeah I brought a 59 out of Morden one early with a shiney new station Guard on the back, changed ends at Barnet and was immediately on the radio for a fitter as soon as we cleared the crossovers because not only was it banging... but the south end had a pronounced “percussion” through the floor... one of the few times I kept the thing down to 30 all the way south. Changed over at Morden. Worst flats I ever encountered. Happy days 😁

Nightington Crescent!

@@annescholey6546 Yes, i think they finally got the money to put new lifts in.....

@@SoiBuakhaoRoutemasterbus To be fair they did a nice job of restoring the period tiling and the street-level building. The newness of the station contrasts with how clapped out the 59 stock was by then. I was fond of the 59s anyway. The Northern Line was my daily commute between 1997 and 2000.

@@richardmcgowan6383 Tey were still good solid trains to the end, the 72s were got rid of first you'll notice! The better quality 62s from the Central put paid to some of them!

Re-opened on 27 April 1998, see The re-opening of Mornington Crescent www.squarewheels.org.uk/rly/MCT-reopen/ for more.

I can't remember what he called out now, too many years ago! Some MkI's have survived, some refurbished & converted to OPO and mixed in with the MkII's on the Bakerloo and various cars in departmental use. Some were converted to work with the 67 Vic Line stock (which was the original stock, the 72's were a crew version of them. Indeed the MkII's were built with ATO in mind for the Jubilee and had extra equipment in the cabs similar to the 67s!) but most have been scrapped.

The 72TS was unit 3202, which along with 3-car 3523 were painted (in 1989) in an early version of what became the corporate livery but not refurbished. 3202 was stored at Acton Works for many years after withdrawal from the Northern but I believe was scrapped relatively recently. However three similar trains were fully refurbished for the Northern and (aside from two damaged cars) were transferred to the Bakerloo by 1997 and remain in service. The 72TS Mk1 cars that ended up part of the Victoria line fleet were converted some time before the refurbishment programme began, other than three odd cars done later to replace damaged vehicles.

@@astock5000 Thanks for the info. That would explain why i never saw a refurb'ed 72 on the Northern, by the time i went out to film the old stock before their replacement, they were already on the Bakerloo. I didn't do much Underground filming from 1990 to 1998 really so lost touch with what was happening.....

astock5000 yes! 3202 was the Acton Works shunter for many years I believe. 3523 was there for a while too but got absolutely plastered in graffiti. I think some of the cars of 3204/3522 (upper blue livery) were actually reused, might’ve moved to the Victoria or Bakerloo fleets. The third train 3227/3518 (blue doors) weren’t so lucky. 3227 was sprayed to hell in 1999, then used by the MoD for all sorts of torturous things before finally being put to rest in 2004. Shame as it was the last 72TS on the Northern in service.

@@NC-002 Yep, I've been doing more research into these recently in fact. That's correct that 3202 was used as the shunting unit, though I'm unsure as to when it was withdrawn from that role. Both it and 3523 were also designated "Bakerloo line spare" at one point. 3204-4204 were reused to replace damaged cars in Victoria line unit 3016 after 4304-3304 were damaged in a depot collision with refurbished unit 3224, which also explains why that one only formed part of 3266 on the Bakerloo. One thing I'm still unable to find is when the Mk1 33xx cars ceased to be used as outer cabs. I assume it may have been around 1989 - 90 when some safety modifications were carried out (it would also tie in with 3302 having a white cab but the two painted previously having red on the 33xx cars) but haven't come across any confirmation of that, or indeed whether the Mk2s that returned to the Northern in the 80s ever ran that way round. Unlikely I know, for all the usual reasons, but I still hope 3229 can be saved once its use on the Alwych branch comes to an end.

The line from Mill Hill used to go to Edgware, it was a mainline service, the Great Northern Line from Kings Cross that went over the Northern Heights from Finsbury Park to Finchley Central where the line split to Barnet and Edgware. The Northern Line didn't reach Edgware until the 1920s. At Morden there were polans to extended further south but the Southern Railway was electrifiying lines everyuwhere and improving their services so the idea was abandoned. Beyond Mill Hill the M1 cuts across the trackbed right were Mill Hill The hale stationused to be.

The Mark I refurbs were more cosmetic unlike the MkII's which were more involved as they had a long term future. So the MkI's were all mixed up as required to make up serviceable trains.....

The 59s were there until 2000, they were the last to go. I was on the last crew operated train, not just of the Northern Line of course but the last crew worked train on the Underground! It took LT 16 years to convert the whole system. It went quite quick at first because a lot of stock had been built with OPO in mind. The A60s were large enough with space to spare to be able to OPO convert them but the 59 & 62s were too small so the Central & Northern needed new stock.

It will say FDCO limit, I believe. This is Front Door Cut-Out Limit, and it's the point beyond which you have overshot the platform by *more* than the distance that can be covered-up by operating the Front Door Cut-Out switch (which, unsurprisingly, stops the front door from opening).

@@squarewheelsorguk I have been with a few drivers that mis-judged a few stations.....Kilburn Park southbound being a favorite.....

@@SoiBuakhaoRoutemasterbus With the S stock you can effectively "get away with" an overrun of up to 1 car, as when you go to Emergency Door Open the leading & rear cars remain closed. Never would I ever have been glad of this feature...

@@squarewheelsorguk I rememeber the R & CO/CP stock on the District Line, the guard could cut out the rear two doors behind him, and the front i think the driver could do the same!....

Gibberish 😆

Yes, a 7 car train had been painted in those colours although it had been split and re-coupled to other units.

@@SoiBuakhaoRoutemasterbus I have the E F E model of that one in the corporate colours

At that time i wasn't interested in the new stock, just the old trains that were being withdrawn. Now, i wish i had just filmed everything!......

Soi Buakhao As in, did you not go to the northern line to film for quite some time?

No because they were rancid then and they are still rancid now.

@@QuarioQuario54321 I laid off filming buses & tubes for years apart from an odd bit of main line railway. Once the classic Underground stock went and the Routemasters, Titans, Metro & Olympians finished i sort of gave up. I did go out for the A, C & D stocks when their time was coming to an end and since doing KZfaq have been enthused to get out again (fat chance at the moment though!) and film. And now i do what i should have done 30+ years agaon and film everything i see! When i'm next in London i will be out & about filming buses, trains, tubes and aircraft again....

Soi Buakhao I certainly wish I had taken my camera to work... I’ve only got a couple of cab shots... oh and one of me drinking tea while shovelling a 59 along at a respectable rate of knots 😂😇

Forza223 Bowe weren’t the 1995s severely de-rated due to power consumption?

limeyfox I don’t think so, because if that was the case the 59 stocks would be sluggish too.

I'm guessing the drivers were more comfortable driving the older stock and could really throw them about unlike the newer ones which they treated with some caution.....

@@SoiBuakhaoRoutemasterbus Nah, I think the original responder @limeyfox was correct. 1995ts was heavily de-rated in software whilst it was inter-running with 1959ts and ultimately until TBTC. I heard an unconfirmed rumour that one on test, unrestricted, reached 104kph passing Neasden station which seems perfectly believable. (I've translated from the original story of 104mph as I do NOT believe that!).

@@squarewheelsorguk Thanks for the info, yes 104 kph sounds more believable!

They hadn't been refurbished, only had a repaint. No 59s were done and the only 72 MkI's refurb'd were those transferred to the Bakerloo.

Half of that 1972 stock was refurbished

@@harrygrieves6812 It might have been one of the three that did get done until LUL decided not to keep them but have a full fleet of 95 stock. It could well be the few that were done were those moved on to the Bakerloo after OPO conversion?.....

The Bakerloo line has most of them now

@@harrygrieves6812 Yes, it has all the MkII's (less accident damage) and around 4 trains of MkI's. Some MkI's are in engineering use and the rest scrapped!

Euston SB on the City Branch.

I used to hit the end door cut out there.... just in case

Chris Page wise choice sir,

Central Norfolk Transportation . Probably because as a new Guard/Motorman, I was still well used to having to cut out end doors routinely when on the back.

If only we still had the quick thinking and teamwork of the guards, working together with the driver. It was just better back then. If only they could bring the Mk1 72TS out of Aldwych and then could relive the 1990’s with that, as it still has the guard controls!

It wasn't refurbished! It had a paint job but the insides haven't been touched. The only MkI's to be done were those that were sent to the Bakerloo.

@@SoiBuakhaoRoutemasterbus I thought 3 trains were given a proper refurbishment in 1993.

@@MrGriser I have never seen one on the Northern...That's not to say they didn't exist, the Northern wasn't a regular travel route for me when i lived in London and when i was out filming i never saw any that were more than a quick repaint & a clean up!

MrGriser Nope, plus I think repaint were earlier. Just to be SUPER nerdy, fleet numbers for each Livery: Blue/white & red doors: 3202/3523 White & blue doors: 3227/3518 Upper blue: 3204/3522

@@NC-002 If you get the book Underground Movement there is a picture of the inside of a refurbished 1972 Mark 1!

And some of this type of old train (72 stock) is still at work today on the Bakerloo Line!.....

Yes, i believe only one 7 car train was painted in corporate colours....

@@SoiBuakhaoRoutemasterbus by chance have you got films of any battery locos or weed killer trains etc?

@@alfiewhittaker3763 I never did although a friend of mine who passed away earlier this year did do some engineering trains. I am hoping to aquire his films rather than have them disposed of (his family are not bus or train enthusiasts)......so you never know!

@@SoiBuakhaoRoutemasterbus oh sad to hear that but interesting proposition

1959 stock in corporate livery just looked wrong, it didn’t suit the look of the train.

No, i just think he wanted to make a comment..... a pre-social media way of doing things....... lol

The last shot of the LUL coloured 72 is at Euston City Branch platform. The end shot of the 38 leaving Queens Park is at the end of my uploads to put end cards over without ruining the film......

Northern line. It was 1959, 1962 and 1972mk1 stocks running at the same time.