in defense, even if ITA is not part of skyteam, lufthansa will still eat ITA anyway

yeah, i thought Lufty was already big enough.

@@avgjoeavglifebiggest airline outside of the US

I would argue the order of operations to be the other way around, but the EU spent a lot more time considering the ITA merger than the SAS purchase.

@@marcusmyge because the EC make a big deal out of it due to Lufty’s size. AFKL Group only have AF, KLM, and LCC transavia compared to Lufty’s 4 full-service carriers (Lufty, Swiss, Brussels and Austrian), LCC Eurowings, a wtf (Air Dolomiti) and 3 leisure airlines (Edelweiss, Lufthansa City and Discover Airlines) among other airline subsidiaries. And don’t forget IAG, for they have LCC Vueling, LEVEL the leisure airline, and 3 full-service carriers with bunch of subsidiaries.

They don't fly the 737...the max is ordered thought. The 737 that fly Eurowings routes sometimes belong to Smartwings.

@@JackJohnson-cm6jk they have 40 max9 on order, should arrive soon

@@Sanginius23 yeah end 2027 ...wonder if they will go to Eurowings again or somewhere else.

@@JackJohnson-cm6jk SunExpress has only 737s and is owned by the Lufthansa Group.

Is there an airline that operates the b757/b767?

Tbh ITA airways on its own has been on the route to being profitable in 2024 anyway. They had their first full business year in 2022, and a loss of 480m€ in a start up year while also dealing with the late effects of the pandemic isn't that bad. In 2023 their losses were just 5m€

Carsten Spohr is a confessing Italy-Fan - this was very much his Deal and you can hear it when you read his Statement. On the opposite: The new SAS CEO started his career at KLM, so no wonder what Airline he preferred as partner for SAS.

Don’t forget that thanks for LH, SAS was not part of the LH-AC-UA interline agreement for North American flights. I think AF-KL will be much better owner of SK than LH Group.

in the near one, yes

2026 not sooner

yes

ULCCs in Europe are ini price war with each other, no need to worry.

I respectfully disagree, the fact that there will now be 2 major chunks of airlines competing over every route from and to europe means that prices are likely to go slightly down in general. However, some specific routes that are only properly served by one of these alliances will be exploited by the lufthansa and air france groups

Economies of scale will play a big role in it.

it’s a big bet

I think LH is seeing plenty of US travel to Europe (in particular Italy) and prices out of the US are quite high and therefore lucrative. Additionally ITA has an extremely young fleet which might help to reduce cost short and midterm.

Indeed. But on the other side: ITA isn´t Alitalia and Lufthansa can be lucky therefore.

​@@NicolaW72Alitalia huge debit is in the hands of Italian taxpayers indeed😢

@@idxluaviation you forgot Air Dolomiti 🇮🇹

@@montramito2 Funny i wrote that one down but forgot to put it in... added it lol.

SunExpress and AeroLogic are Joint Ventures with Turkish and DHL respectively, so I wouldn't count them in. However, you forgot Eurowings Europe. That's a different entity from Eurowings ;)

Thank you very much - yes, indeed! But as mentioned here: Sun Express is a Joint Venture with Turkish Airlines and AeroLogic a Joint Venture with DHL, at both Airlines Lufthansa has "only" a share of 50% and an equal, strong Partner - and at ITA for now "only" 41%, while the other Airlines are 100% Lufthansa. This is a difference.

lufthansa cityline will be shut down soon

ITA airways will never be competitive domestically or to holiday destinations in Central Europe anyways, but it is highly profitable on business travel and transatlantic

Nice aircraft on the outside, but the inside… here at sfo they can def compete with United if they try for the Italian market.

Yes and No. The European Commission cannot hinder LH to make a lot of money on routes they deem very profitable. And the EC can also not dictate ticket prices on routes on which LH has a de-facto monopoly. What the European Commission CAN DO (and what they ACTUALLY DO!) is define the amount of slots on a given route which see monopolies, ie Munich-Hamburg, that can be allocated to any airline. In other words: If Ryanair decided to start a Munich-Hamburg tomorrow, they could immediately do that because LH are not allowed to soak up all the slots. However, if other airlines are not willing to build an infrastracture to make these routes profitable, it certainly isn't LH's fault. And THIS is the point where the EC did something they have not yet done before and making an example out of the ITA buy: They are actively forcing LH to make sure there is competition on TransAt flights to/from Italy. LH has to ask their competitors to activate a route and even propose incentives to make it work. That's a very strong demand by the EC, so even more interesting that despite this issue, LH still sees a large potential (€€€) in buying ITA.

Obviously, you did not make it to the end of the video...

ITA is to leave SkyTeam and join Star Alliance.

Well in return SAS will move from star alliance to skyteam

But Alitalia had a strong connection to Africa too in its hay day. ITA could serve more Anglophone countries while Brussels could service Francophone countries in Africa. Two airline groups serving the continent is better for Lufthansa than one. Transit wise, Rome has better overall facilities. I know a lot of Africans from the US hate transiting in Brussels due to the airport infrastructure. Their only other viable option is Royal Air Moroc or the longer way Ethiopian Airlines to East Africa and then back. ITA is also an overall better experience in Business class for status customers.

Rumours IAG / oneworld want to buy TAP too.

Depending on how you define a "large airline"; Ryanair, Wizzair and Easyjet will likely stay independent. And these together already own half of the market.

@@semaex correct, I mean a regular carrier

Cabin staff from Lufthansa, Swiss, Austrian, Air Dolomiti etc. was always nice to me. But they managed to destroy my luggage several times. Or deliver it to my address a few days in delay because it didn't arrive at all.

A little naive

@@hassocks1206 no it wont

@@killerbees177 they already ate SAS

Oneworld just chillinf

@@GG-hi5if and Iberia won against BA this past sunday. Young sibling won over old one.

@@AndrewIndoChannel what does football mean to airlines

of course it will. They ruined swiss. That crappy company will ruin everything they touch.

It is, when the alternatives are an end of service due to bankruptcy, or a company that needs constant subsidy to survive (which would be fine in the medical sector, but not for an airline).

National airlines are also bad for customers

If a market is already concentrated a lot, yes. But many small (national) airlines just doing their own thing isn't good either, as service suffers a lot.

I'm sure SWISSAIR costumers disagree. Not sure they were happy when from one day to another that airline went bancrupt without any sort of financial backup. Yes mergers tend to dominate and raise prices. Thats why an effective anti-monopoly commision watches over them in developed countries. But the upside of a consolidated market which doesnt undercut costs, something which ultimately leads to bancruptcies (leaving both staff and pax stranded), is a far more important factor.

well those are the ones normaly being sold

Airlines has a love affair with the Italian market. It's one of the biggest tourist destinations in the world. Also because of the geography of Italy there are a lot of internal flights. Being in a dominant position in such a market would be really beneficial.

@@Worldwide_aviation81 they tried when they’re still Alitalia. Look where it got them.

Aer Lingus is also owned by IAG (Spain + England). I would not be surprised if Ryanair or Wizz Air has bigger share of the Italian market than ITA.

Audi already owned Lamborghini for a while now so.. Nothing new

State aided? because LH got help during covid which all has been paid back alread?

Dream on ...

No ITA is an Airbus loyalist they will never ever order a Boeing piece of crab

Obvious troll but I will bite. By that logic the US airlines should all buy Airbus as theyre only independent because of France, Spain, the Netherlands, Prussia (Germany) etc who financed ,trained, supplied and fought alongside the U.S continental army to get Americas freedom. Also nice way to forget about all the other countries that fought in Italy....Britian, Brazil, Poland, India etc etc etc. Why not buy say Brazilian from Embraer by your logic.

@@danielforrester5265 troll LOL. I said 50/50 for a reason. It’s reasonable. All Airbus is not.

Oh my gawd. Move on from the war, honey. It was 80 years ago. So you didn't "liberate" Italy out of the kindness of you heart? The US made sure everything went its way thereafter with a war-devastated Europe the anni di piombo, Operation Gladio, leaving Spain under Franco. Like it or not, the Soviets did most of the legwork in the Second World War anyway. If it hadn't been for the Eastern Front, the Western Allies (not only the US, sweetheart, but the UK, Canada, exiled forces, etc.) would have been hard pressed to keep Nazi Germany across the English Channel.