James: An excellent comparison! I'm just starting to mess with this style of tool and your discussion cuts right through the myths and the hype. What refreshing clarity.

You're a man's man; "Get both. You can never have too many tools." 💯👍

This is the best explanation I’ve found yet to clearly explain the difference without being loaded full of bias toward one or the other. Usually people just talk purely about how the angles are very similar but never mention how the iron is in line or 45° to the cut.

Great video! Why do I consider this a very important and very correct coverage of the problem of choice - for a simple reason, many craftsmen, especially those who have extensive experience and a lot of knowledge in the use of hand tools, do not see anything incomprehensible and unclear in the coverage of this issue. 62 planes, they are also called “werewolves” in Russian, “cross-cut planes” are considered by beginning craftsmen to be a remedy for the problems of planing complex wood, a low cutting angle, a massive piece of iron, an adjustable mouth - all this is designed to make the process of planing complex areas simple and high-quality, but mostly quality, because it is believed that the more expensive 62 plane will do the job better.But in the video we see a slightly different picture - the knife with the frog is adjusted more precisely, which means it will be better applicable to each specific case, and in fact it cuts simpler and easier! And due to what? Due to the same cutting angle of 45 degrees! We turned the knife with the chamfer upward, but the surface of the upper cutting edge relative to the planing surface is 37 degrees, less than 45 degrees, which means cutting the end fibers is easier, but only the end fibers. The master showed us an excellent carpenter's bottom for planing the ends, the 62 plane copes with this perfectly, you can also use classic planes, but the 62 with an additional handle is a masterpiece in this work.Great video! Explanation of many questions on various planes comes during the discussion of knowledgeable people and showing examples of work! Thanks a lot!

Biggest example of this is the difference in planes anglo-saxon countries to european central countries. Here almost 99% of people use European style wooden planes. Metal planes are often frowned upon and considered bulky, heavy, complicated to use etc. Then add to that the Japanese style of having so many pull-direction tools that some might consider illogical. It's all a matter of style and personal preference. Great video, with great explanations!

Glad that you emphasize the "what works for you" aspect of our craft. That is most important.Need more info on Wood by Wright 2 site.

Brilliant video Keep em coming. It’s great seeing the smaller details in different tools

Thanks for the in depth clarification. Very helpful topic

Another great straight forward video, well done.

Great video I really appreciate the detailed explanation.

thanks , your channel make me walk in a correct way

good video it'll help in my design and making a shooting board plane I was trying to figure out where the iron needed to be

Good job, James. You certainly did your homework for this, which is why I enjoy your videos. You are a smart worker.

@Wood By Wright I want it all I want it all I want it now! Currently I'm trying to make my bench surface smoothness this video makes my mind clear thank you for that much informational video

Very good explanation. Thanks.

Just came here after watching Mr Sellers video about a similar topic. I must say that you have explained positives and negatives of both planes. Thanks brother.

Love your work, James. I got a bout of buyers regret after I ordered a low angle jack plane. I already own a bevel down jack. Thank you so much for advising me that I really need both! Excellent explanation of the strong suits of each type. Keep up the good work.

Very well explained and completely correct in all aspects. You did a very very good job on this subject and end at the top of the leaderboard. Thank you young man great video.

Thanks so much!!

I have the Quenshong love angle Jack Plane that looks very similar to yours and it is my go to plane when I have difficult grain, I am loving your Chanel and I am using mainly hand tools now, I have a table saw which I am getting rid of putting it in my other shed.

I am a serious hobbyist working with as little power tools as possible. I aim to go professional. I am currently planning the purchase of my first set of quality hand planes - I'm Canadian, so it's easy for me to get Veritas products. This video has just helped me figure out what I actually need. Thank you very much for making this material available. Cheers!

Wow, I've been subscribed pretty much since your humble beginnings.. this is probably your best video to date. The explanation and presentation is spot on. Great work and keep em coming!

Great explanation, thanx!

Thanks! What was great for me was the way you explained the angle and chatter bit earlier in the video. I've watched many others but you explanation really clicked - greatt stuff!

Great show as always

One of the best videos I have watched on the differences between low angle and high angle planes. Great job James. Thank you for not saying the bevel up jack plane is the best plane for all tasks.

Your video is much more descriptive than the RC video - more history, and more scenarios of use are described - thank you (and, wow, you really like that Lee Valley custom plane!) (and, yes, get them both, for all of the reasons that you mention - if you do enough different tasks, you may eventually 'need" both)

I have No 5, a low angle Jack, 2 No 4 Stanley, Block plane, plus a rebate plane , plough planes etc etc oh and a Triton thicknesser for stock prep of pallet wood.

thank you . love the answer need more tools

Thanks for sharing that, well said

I own mostly Bailey style planes with one wooden 17" jointing plane I have set up as a hogger (scrub plane). The only bevel up planes I own are 2 block planes. One for general work and one for shooting and end grain. I agree that there is a definite difference in using a bevel up on end grain and so far, the block planes do what I need. I've held off buying a larger bevel up plane mostly because of the price versus my actual needs. By the way, great explanation of both types, for I believe the 4th time..... LOL!

Very informative. A subject I had little knowledge of before.

I often "brag" that my Subaru Forester is better off-road than a Mazda Miata and corners nicer on twisty mountain highways than a Jeep Wrangler. My Veritas #62 1/2 is kind of a similar deal--it isn't the best at anything, but it's very good at a lot of things. And, like changing tires, changing irons is an easy way to bias the performance in one direction or another.

Great answer. Too many reviews say there is no difference.

My dad was a power tool guy and had started getting into hand tools as I started getting into woodworking. He suggested that I get a #62 and I’m glad he did. I quickly realized I would also need a #4 but I was able to complete my simple projects with just the 62.

I appreciate your balance

Very interesting and informative. I would like to see more details on setting up the high angle bevel down plane for different uses

Great Job James! With your permission, I would like to submit your video to Lee Valley"s HQ training division. This would be a fantastic way to teach our new associates about the difference and help them better advise our customers on choosing a good plane for the customers needs and budget. BTW, I would like to make a point of order. The blade of a high angle plane is a two piece blade and the parts are the Cutting Iron (commonly called the Blade or better the Iron) and the Cap Iron (the part many today mistakenly call the "chip breaker"). The actual chip breaker is merely one FEATURE of a Cap Iron. It is the hump at the leading edge. This not only compresses the wood and breaks the fibers to prevent tear out; it also focuses more reinforcing pressure to the very tip of the Cutting Iron. The result is a significant reduction in chatter on the cutting edge over the original flat design. It this through both improved direction of force and the introduction of spring action similar to springs in a cars suspension. As a "traditional joiner" I would ask that you use the correct terms as they actually have important historical and functional differences. The whole part is the Cap Iron. While the hump, and only the hump, at the front of the Cap Iron is the Chip Breaker. The terms are important because they concisely convey very precise meanings. Thus it is important to use terms properly in order to maintain clarity within a given discipline. Once again thank you for the wonderful videos you make. You have been a major aid to myself both as an instructor in the science and art of joinery and as a customer advisor at Lee Valley's Winnipeg store. Your honesty, humility, passion and humor shine through in your productions, and they have been both inspiring and educational for both myself and my students. Should you ever find yourself North of the border and in the Winnipeg area, please let me know.

I don't think it's a "vs" question, the answer is to ave both for specific situations.

great video. im starting to learn stuff

Same with guitars, most end up with more than one!

Very educational. I will be sharing in some FB carpenter groups. Maybe in a UK group also as there seems to be many more traditional carpenters and woodworkers than I encounter in USA groups. I'll be searching your channel next for sharpening advice!

Did you just call woodworking a sport?? Does that make me an athlete??

Great video. Again. I wondered about the difference and why. I have some small planes, I think they are called palm planes that are bevel up. While my larger planes are bevel down. I tend to use the palm plane for end grains, just because it seemed to work better. I never tried to use them for a whole cutting board. Now I understand the logic behind them. :)

I work on fairly standard wood/stock, and rarely have to plane end grain thicker than 3/4”, for which I find a freshly sharpened Stanley no4 iron works well, or no6 if I’m using a shooting board. For smoothing awkward grain I have a spare Stanley no4 with an iron with a 5 degree back bevel, often called a York pitch, it’s surprising how much harder that 5 degrees makes it to push through the work, but it hasn’t failed me yet. I have a low angle apron plane but very rarely use it. I’m not against low angle bevel up planes, I just have no use for one. If I was going to spend my money on a new plane I’d probably just get a more modern Bailey pattern from one of the current manufacturers like LN, or Wood River, or whatever, probably not a Veritas plane, I just don’t like how they look, I prefer traditional designs if you hadn’t guessed.

I’ve been trying to become more proficient with hand planes. I have always used power tools for everything I have ever built. A chisel here and there. Someone gave me a Stanley no.4 and 5 so I decided to learn how to used them. I’ve watched dozens of videos on how to tune up planes, sharpen irons, set chip breakers.. you get the idea. But I still can’t get a smooth consistent finish on certain woods. It’s so frustrating. I watched this video hoping you would demonstrate how a low angle plane would produce a smoother finish but that’s not the case.

I love your work and your videos. On this topic - you have to try Veritas' bevel-up smoother. Somehow it cuts through the most difficult grain without any tearout with ~40o blade. It's some kind of magic, a very similar Veritas low angle jack can't do that. Maybe it's the extra width and mass and shorter length - somehow it works. Looking forward to your next video!

Watched Rob Cosmans take on bevel up vs bevel down after I watched this one and am as confused as ever. I'll go with what you said, "you can't have too many planes". More planes it is! Grilling, gas vs charcoal.

a little back bevel on the iron could do the same thing as a different bevel on the low angle device... ( don't have a preference just learning from multiple youtube channels :D )

Hello, new guy who is somewhat starting to use bench planes and looking into the histories and what not of the tools. In my personal opinion the high angle, bevel down design with early modern to today’s metal bench planes are like a legacy design. It does make sense during the time transitioning from wooden body/sole of a bench plane to a metal (bronze/cast iron,) body/sole. If it ain’t broke why fix it mentality when Stanley first started making metal bodies for the plane designs. Since most and probably all of the planes before Stanley’s Bailey design were made with a very hard and dense wood that can handle abuse pretty well. It was probably very difficult to try and either to mortise (cut out,) or a laminated style during the late Victorian time period to early modern period. There is also the chance with the wood too not being durable enough to handle abuse with how thin trying to make a low angle, bevel up design with just wood. Although I could be wrong about the wooden design. Amazing video though, keep a good job making amazing content for wood working

Personally as I started integrating more hand tools into my work, I started with the low angle jack because I was a bit intimidated by all of the customization in the standard angle planes. Now I have a 4 1/2 and am kicking myself that I did not just jump into the deep end and start there. It does have a lot more to adjust, but once you have it all down, it takes way better shavings. I do plan to build a shooting board soon, but until then, my old 62 rarely sees much use.

Well presented, good information and comparison that is useful, said in a straight forward manner that is very much appreciated. Perhaps even more important is your philosophical statement to take the information and apply it to your own way of working and see if this is the tool for you. There is no one tool that is exactly right for everyone. It is up to each of us individually to discover with the tool in our own hands what works best for ourselves. I thank you for that reminder, to me, it is that process of learning and discovery that is at the heart of woodworking and keeps us coming back.

I now think the low angle bevel up wins every time because it takes much less effort to cut through the fibres. I’ve just bought a Zen Wu blade and chip breaker to upgrade my Stanley number 4. It doesn’t fit at all well. However when messing around all possibilities I tried bevel up, no chip breaker either Stanley or Zen Wu, but just the cap iron. I adjusted the blade and tightened up the screw and it cuts a dream with no chatter.The mouth is wide open, however. The proof of the pudding is in the shavings. I seem to have created a high angle and it works a dream despite an open mouth and a sort of chip breaker set too far back to break chips. I reckon the blade approaches the wood at 70 degrees. I could mill out the mouth to take the new blade and chip breaker, but it looks like the protrusion is insufficient with the new blade. I might have to mill a new slot in the blade as well. I’ll stick with my unorthodox bodge for a while as it appears to work fine.

Thanks, I am just learning about planes now. One interesting thing I would like to add is I saw Rob Cosman swap out a blade and chipbreaker on his jack plane. I hope I get the terms right here he had a blade and chipbreaker set up for smoothing and one another pair set up for hogging. This was a high angle 5 1/2 Woodriver plane. Typically I see woodworkers with two different planes perhaps of the same size. Starting out and being a bit miserly I think this is a great idea. Of course this could be done on a low angle plane as well. Thanks again for discussing the pros and cons of each.

out of all my planes my veritas bevel up jointer is my favorite, my no. 62 comes in second, then all my bevel down planes... but I recommend having both. the low angle are great all around planes, they take on most woods with ease, but every now and then....

Thanks! Which three planes would you recommend for a new woodworker?

For me it really comes down to which is the better too for the task at hand. Example: you can tap joinery together with a metal hammer though a wooden mallet you'll do a better job in that it's less likely to mare the work piece.

I'm interested in the shavings themselves. I'm making small things from veneer, and it would be a nice touch to make the veneer from some meaningful piece of wood, even if I have to glue multiple bits together to get what I want. Which tool would I use to get shavings of wood closer to veneer?

Thank you so much for your clear explanations. I follow several, actually quite a few channels, I find that yours, Paul Sellers, and the "10 minute workshop" are the best no BS teachers. This video is very timely for my education am process. I am just learning about and how to use hand tools. I am taking a hand tool sharpening course from Highland Hardware in Atlanta next month before I purchase a plane and better chisels and other goodies I can slide by the "boss" ! I have seen some sole plates lubed with wax, and others with oils. Which do you prefer and do either of them effect the finish on the wood? Thanks for your answer in advance.

Lmao, and a new search begins. Maybe I'll just make one like you did for the challenge with Rex.

Could you post a link to low angle stanley that was used by you please?

As everyone is saying, thanks for the useful explanations ! At my basic stage, I didn't know that the two types existed. I don't use power tools and never have, and still have a full set of fingers as a result ! I have and still do use Surform tools which are so quick for shaping. In the 1960s many of us were put off woodworking by the classes at school, which could be an ordeal because of the strict regime which stifled originality. Retirement has meant that we are rediscovering woodworking, and finding that thanks to your channel and others that there is pleasure in learning about techniques - it isn't an ordeal after all ! In a way we pity people who do it as a living, and have to use power tools all day long. If a low-angle bevel up is good for end grain, that suggests a smaller bodied plane for that purpose, whereas planing along the grain will be best for a longer-bodied plane ? Thank you for the introduction - something to bear in mind as we progress !

Great video as always! I've been looking at the veritas custom planes recently. I have a low angle smoothing plane and jack and my fingers are long enough to adjust the norris adjuster more or less on the fly with them, however the bailey style is much easier and more comfortable to adjust - can you adjust on the fly with the veritas custom planes?

It would be possible and not too difficult to machine a chip breaker for a bevel up plane. Then you would have the best of both worlds in a bevel up low angle plane. The handle on the Stanley Sweetheart doesn’t look right to me. Is it good and comfortable? My Qiangsheng has a lovely comfortable handle. Very informative video. Thanks

That's impressive, I like that veritas plane

Do you have a video on tuning your handplane

As someone who only does one thing with planes and can’t afford both of these, what would be better for quartersawn rock maple? At first glance I was hoping the low angle would stop my tear out issues with my cheap #4 bevel down plane but you’re saying that the low angle bevel up had issues with tear out and the bevel down didn’t? Maybe I need to spend several hours adjusting it but I’ve never been able to get it to not have severe tear out on knots and such

Hi! Nice viedo though the opinions seems to differ very much on this topic your conclusion is full of wisdom. I` d like to ask about one important thing in from the standpoint of ingeneering and re- servicing the low angle jack. Are all the screws and dimensions metric or imperial? Regards!

It's best to have both. And one nice thing with low angle planes is that their blades are a bit easier to sharpen free hand due to their bigger bevel area.

Where does a cabinet scraper fit in to this discussion?

need help justifying to my better half the amount of tools I need. how you guys did it?

How come your chip breaker us flat and not a weird curved shape like a Stanley one?

Do they make low angle, bevel down planes? If so, what are they used best for? Thanks and great video!

I think there's a tribble hiding in your shop 10:20

How about buying one good blade, and building wooden planes with different angles that use the same blade!

You might want to make the distinction from standard angle planes and really high angle planes like 55 degree planes and scraper planes that have the negative angle. (; Just to keep things spicey.

Aww...I was going to make the apple/android comparison, but you beat me to it.

You've covered the topic well. I think some people just like to argue.

New to woodworking, I’ve never worked with hand planes, low is for end grain, standard for with grain?

Worked late today, but I'm here...cheers..rr Normandy, Fra.

How much fettling did the new Stanley 62 require?

So I have two questions I'll go with the most relevant (at least to me) first: is there a reason the low angle has a much thicker iron than the high angle? And as far as shooting planes go is making one basically the same as making any other plane just putting the handle on the side instead of the top?

Oh sure, go ahead and try to stop the controversy over which plane is best. Next you'll be making videos about which glue is best........oh, wait...... :-)

If anything, this illustrates the joy of tools. Get both and learn how to use either or.

I don't know why I always wait around for those terrible jokes at the end, they never get any better. =)

I have both because each has its place where they work better than the other.. Then you missed the card scraper can be considered a hand plane of sorts.

It always makes me laugh when people argue about woodworking methods when the masters get the same results using all the same methods. Its mostly the worker using the tool.

High angle always the best choice 95% of the time from my experience. The other 5% is an even higher angle lol idk just my experience

Well i will never take part in the argument for or against either style again. I use BU planes but don't care for them. I find the norris adjuster to difficult to get the blade set perfectly parallel.

There is the best answer to do anything in woodworking! Not exactly what you might think it would be but sure our ancestors knew it very well as the spent a lot of time doing it. The best answer is the one that makes you more productive or more efficient. Except that sometimes you don't know how to use tools efficiently or what tool. And in hobby world everybody tends to not care about efficiency. And then there is a fact that function of chipbreaker was forgotten and rediscovered again in 2011-2013. But once you master it then you know what it is for. And yes, both are needed for different tasks. Heck, for that matter even machines are needed for best efficiency. But here it is - if you are more productive then you are doing it more right than you did before.

Bevel down is the best because they're the tools that are most available.

Bevel up, bevel down. The best is bevel sideways.

Yes! First like after #205...🤣

So basically the low angle plane is a bigger version of the low angle block plane? 😬😶

You can’t have too many planes, or clamps, or spokeshaves, or chisels, or.....

If you really want to start an argument do a video on the origin of the saw nib. And get the popcorn

😃👍🏻👊🏻

OK, I just watched a video by another guy who said “a low angle jack is the only plane you will ever need”. I thought, “Great! One and done.” Now I watched this and I’m back to analysis paralysis again. A low angle plane should reduce tear out, but it doesn’t. So a low angle plane is only be better for end grain? In my limited experiments with a couple planes I got for free, I don’t get wispy thin shavings. I get thick slices (with some effort) or something resembling saw dust. I’ve spent many hours with diamond stones and a Veritas honing guide trying to get a razor sharp edge and they catch my finger nail, but don’t shave hair. At this point, would it be reasonable to conclude that I need to pry open my wallet and buy a better plane or should I be able to get even a no name, flee market mystery plane to work well?

But is that rabbit bevel inside or outside?

For the price of those 2, you could have 6 japanese planes and a set of nice chisels.