Making A Small Air Filtration Unit For The Workshop.... FAIL!

Рет қаралды 55,921

6 жыл бұрын

In this video I attempt, and fail to make a prototype air filtration unit for small workshops.
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Пікірлер: 328

@huskybeaver6051 6 жыл бұрын

I really appreciate seeing videos like this and like the one with your brother when things go wrong. Its feels more genuine and shows some things i might run into. Love the videos!

@VampyRagDoll 6 жыл бұрын

I love that you're not afraid to show your fails. Also cuuuuute kitty appearance.

@thewoodworker1703 6 жыл бұрын

Not a waste of time at all, you gained experience and us the viewers can also learn by your experiment. I am sure there are more knowledgeable viewers on here who can put you on the right track, thus we will all be better informed if we want to try something like this project in the future. It is good to see maker youtubers post their "fails" as it were, it shows us mere mortals that it is not a bad thing to get it wrong sometimes! I really enjoyed it.

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@manricorazzi 2 жыл бұрын

@@RagnBoneBrown great vid! Did you make a second attempt, improving the design? I would love to watch that!

@isthisthat 3 жыл бұрын

I was thinking about trying the exact same thing! I have an insulated shed of similar size and wondered whether something like this would work. You just saved me a lot of time. Nice scientific experiment too!! Well done

@vjtiengineer5496 3 жыл бұрын

No waste of time either for you or for us viewers. In fact, appreciate your intellectual honesty to share your results whether it was a success or a failure. We all learn everyday from every step. Thanks and keep sharing.

@simonralston4545 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing fella! As always I learned a lot from your vid (and reading the comments!). I follow a lot of woodworkers but I think your channel is the best as you do great work without a giant workshop filled with Festool tools like a lot of ‘tubers do! I hope you go on to make a MkII fan. Keep up the good work!

@kennethtaylor5084 6 жыл бұрын

Actually a good video mate. I’ve been looking at building one and though yours was not effective it highlighted a lot of points to take into account. Thanks.

@shehzadmuhammadkhan 4 жыл бұрын

This video is really helpful. Fan to begin with is generating low pressure and with addition of dense filters that are designed for 800-1000 watts vac cleaner drastically reduces air pressure. Use paper disposable hepa filters with deeper bends and fix the fan as it would pull air from the filter instead of throwing air on it.

@kayhaverkort4220 2 жыл бұрын

Verry nice to put up the failed attempt. Thare are so manny succes storys on youtube whare there is no reason to discuss why a diy device like this would fail. I'd say this is one of the most useful contributions. We'll done.

@mikecrawshaw9727 6 жыл бұрын

Hi. I'm a newbie to this channel and have been impressed with the content of your vlogs and project information. For my penny worth of icontribution I use an old cooker hood extractor fan and filters to clean the air in my work shop.

@stevetyler3016 6 жыл бұрын

Yes, sorry about my earlier comment but you are on the right track !!! Less restrictive airflow will cure the problem. See... we both are learning. Thank You !!!

@darrinpatterson2764 4 жыл бұрын

Very helpful for those of us currently looking into our work shop air quality

@KenpoMoogy 4 жыл бұрын

I built one for my shop 9x13 with 8 ft ceilings. I got a fan that might be used to dry carpet - so, very good CFM. I put a filter directly in front and one behind that way the air gets pulled in and cleaned a second time when exiting. The filters are up against the blower so dust has no place to go. That's the adjustment you need to make it clean your air 10+ times per hour. Great Video & Channel!

@nickpanteli74 3 жыл бұрын

Amazing learning experience, thank you for sharing

@DavisStillson 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your honest assessment.. think of it as a learning, not a failing..

@davewilliams355 6 жыл бұрын

Good video keith, enjoyed it.

@chekamleshpal 5 жыл бұрын

Like your way of approach

@rauladame2105 2 жыл бұрын

I thought about using a smaller fan to move the air in my garage. You made a lower pressure low volume system. The combination needs to be low pressure high volume or high pressure low volume. This is how air cleaner and shop vacuums work. Changing the filter might increase the volume but you may want to increase the volume coming into the unit. This prevents me from duplicating your effort. This post is absolutely valuable to me with the presented information. Thank you!

@OldManTony 6 жыл бұрын

Nice idea. If I was doing this after watching, I’d probably go for car or motorcycle air filters, you can get washable ones, and I suspect they have a larger filtration area than the dyson ones, which means you should get more air flow through, although I’m not sure what size particles they will remove down to.

@10MinuteWorkshop 6 жыл бұрын

Keith, if it’s any consolation I reached the same conclusion - and I made two of the suckers, lol! The fans I used were rated at 230 cu M / hour but that drops spectacularly when you start throwing filters in there and I used comparatively free-flowing foam filters designed for motorbikes. Though like you, I also put the fan in front of the filter... 🤔 More experiments needed - and remember, no such thing as a failed experiment, as long as you learn something! Cheers, Peter 👍

@jochenmayer 6 жыл бұрын

Use a fan with more pressure, pull the air throug the filters and don't use such dense filters. Just do it, we need the follow up ... nice channel btw...

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@jeffallen3598 4 жыл бұрын

Jochen Mayer right.. The bathroom fan is not designed to use filters, just suck moist air out of the house. These Dyson filters are designed for the high powered vacuum suction system. So, too dense for the power if this fan. If it needs to be this small, you might try less dense house (hvac) type filters. maybe use an electrostatic filter so you can have better airflow but use static electricity to attract the particles... other than that, you would need to change out your fan system for something more powerful in a small package

@manhngo4275 3 жыл бұрын

it is correct, the fan is too weak to suck outside air, more powerful fan is a good idea

@dougprentice1363 3 жыл бұрын

@@manhngo4275 I don't think any fan will be able to produce enough static pressure to pull air through those filters.

@ukhottubs 6 жыл бұрын

Irrespective of the failed project, you made an interesting and informative video as always. Great stuff. Keep up the amazing work, can’t win them all. I Look forward to your next vid.

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks!!

@gazgough9264 6 жыл бұрын

I was trying to plan one out for my shop this week, basically i think the filters are a bit to big but most of all try adding a fan to the back to help blow the clean air back out. no idea if it will work 100% but thats what my plan is

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks Gaz hope you have more success. Not sure if you have seen it but if you're considering buying one instead one of the comments on my video was about a product called Thor Microclene which looks absolutely perfect for the size I wanted, albeit quite expensive!! Not sure I'll get one but good to know they exist

@JohnColgan. 4 жыл бұрын

Hi Keith, another great video. One year on, did you resolve the issue & gain the expected improvement?

@colinbates9563 6 жыл бұрын

The wood particles will be heavier than air so reposition the unit lower down. Also are the filters starving the fan, it will take quite some energy to push air through those dense filters, a bigger surface area filter could make the fans life easier. Keep trying and sharing as there has to be a solution. Cheers

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks

@mtv3110 6 жыл бұрын

Good effort 👍🏻👍🏻

@matthewbutcher8037 6 жыл бұрын

Jay Bates has a great design for a dust cart using furnace filters. I replicated this design and managed to find furnace filters on a UK website. I have my bandsaw mounted above it to save space. I used a fan unit from a broken blast chiller but any fan cooled fridge fan would work.

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks will check it out

@Jeremy-su3xy 5 жыл бұрын

Very informative.

@SebastiaanMollema 6 жыл бұрын

Hi keith, I made air filter and fume extractor combi with two of those little fans and it works for me perfectly. I haven't tested it as you did with the particle measuring device but I could determine I had decent flow of air through the filter. And the air didn't smell as much like dust and fumes when I used it. behind the fansI used a different filter materials than your example, a active carbon fabric and fine particle fabric (grease filter from a extraction hood). It might be worth trying different filter materials. I have a video about the build, it might give some new insights. Thumbs up for the video!

@MarkMcCluney 6 жыл бұрын

Good experimental practice. Everyone will have a theory about the mechanics of the fan, filter position/order and fan speed etc, but it might be worth considering the extractor's place and orientation before giving up on this. It could be that it is in an area of neutral air flow - like a back water in an otherwise moving river. I saw something similar to that years ago - oh well, just a thought. Anyway, it's all experience. Thanks for sharing Keith.

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@BigDaddyOworkshop 6 жыл бұрын

I have the Jet air filter, and the filter is basically a thick fabric bag in front and the fan behind to suck the dusty air into and through the bag filter. In your instance for a quick test, I'd say take out those Hepa filters, and just secure a tight knit sweater over the front of your fan. it will probably work much better.

@leehenderson8488 6 жыл бұрын

did you ever revisit this idea? I had a similar idea as i have a larger inline extractor fan spare made by manrose, approx 250l/m. I wondered if a car air filter would work something readily available to us here in the uk. Id love to see if you could rig something up that actually worked.

@n8zimphotography 2 жыл бұрын

As others have said there are two factors here. The pressure needed to push air through the filters and the amount circulating happening within the room. A bathroom fan is moving moist air from inside to outside and only needs 100 or so CFM to clear a bathroom in 15-20 minutes. There's no filter holding it back so it's a relatively weak fan. I'm going through this myself in an 18 sq meter shop and I picked up a fan from a Furnace which moves 500 CFM and is designed to work with the drag of trying to pull air through a filter. I'm also using filters designed for heaters or furnaces, so they are compatible and easy to change. Putting it in pandemic terms, you have to work a lot harder to jog when wearing a mask than without.

@toastersock 6 жыл бұрын

I think you placed the filters on the wrong side of the fan! Basically it is designed to pull the air though not push it out, hence the air behind the fan in your set up goes nowhere fast. Both the air filters and cleaners I use have the filters before the fan, the ensuing air exhaust is appreciable not blocked. Also I think one hepa filter is enough, you're just further restricting the air passage with no appreciable dust reduction benefit!! Just remove both filters from your setup, duct tape one to the front and let me know ...

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thank you! May try this :-)

@mitchelwb 6 жыл бұрын

This was my thought too... pull the dust in to the filter, don't try and push the dust in to it.

@cakepanda 6 жыл бұрын

pulling or pushing air won't change the effectiveness. filters only work by there being a pressure differential from one side to the other, they are not direction specific.

@ipworx 5 жыл бұрын

You always want the filters on the intake of the fan for the mere fact that you dont want your fan clogged with particulate....but....there are actually a few more things wrong too. With the filters in the exhaust area instead of the intake the exhaust actually bounces off the filters and causes back pressure against the incoming air, this is why the pull was strong in the middle and weak on the edges...the air is trying to come back around the edges. The fan has a very low CFM rating which is only decreased by the filters (check how little is coming out the exhaust). One filter would likely have been enough to kill this little fan but two was pretty much a guarantee. You might be able to salvage materials in the project a bit be reversing the flow but you will likely need to use a fan with more power. I would suggest either the tried and true box fan or if you really want to re-utilize your design as much as possible, try using a duct booster fan like this one. www.amazon.com/VIVOSUN-Inline-Booster-Noise-Grounded/dp/B01C82T0QC/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1546612519&sr=8-14&keywords=duct+booster+fan

@oswmacdonald 3 жыл бұрын

@@cakepanda Most filters are direction specific - hence the arrows!

@phildxyz 6 жыл бұрын

Agree with people saying the Dysan filters may be too dense. Maybe you could cut one of those light weight corrugated paper filters to fit? Hopefully would not cost too much to try and might save the project, which fundamentally looks like a good idea.

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Do you have a link to the filter you mention? Will check it out

@ecaff9515 5 жыл бұрын

I would build your unit like the units in our factory fan filters. The filters collect the dirty air before going thru the fan. Therefore, the filters are mounted on the intake side of the fan. However, the filters are much closer to the intake of the fan. It is just an observation. Thanks for sharing

@olachus 3 жыл бұрын

You supposed to check the CFM on that fan before ordering it. The higher the amount of CFM (cubic feet per minute) the more air will be moved through that fan in the same amount of time. There are some inline duct fans meant to improve the recirculation on certain machines (also available on Amazon or eBay) for 230V that are more powerful than that bathroom fan and also not so large in diameter. Don’t abandon your project, just look for ways to improve it. One more thing... being quiet or slightly loud fan will make no difference when you operate any saw in your small shop.

@trishblakely3476 6 жыл бұрын

The Woodpecker (Alain Villancourt) also built his own air filtration unit. But he could probably fit three or four of your shops inside of his so his design was pretty big. You could still pick up some ideas and make an improved v2.0 of your own. Happy weekend, Keith!

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@monophoto1 6 жыл бұрын

Tend to agree with Mulligan. You are using rather 'dense' HEPA filters which means that you need a fairly powerful fan to push air through those filters. On the other hand, the fan you used looks pretty 'wimpy'. So your choices are either to use less effective filters, or a more powerful fan.

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@CammiesGarage 6 жыл бұрын

I don't know anything about this, but you gave it a damn good try. I see loads of folks already made plenty of suggestions, so I will leave it there. Keep up the good work.

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks

@runzareviews4188 2 жыл бұрын

I’m just about to make one myself. I’ve got a particle monitor, a voc monitor, an air purifier and an extractor fan. I’m going to test which one does the most for my small 3.6m by 2.4m workshop

@whirled_peas 6 жыл бұрын

Static pressure is required (not necessarily CFM) to force the air through those filters. They are HIGH resistance because they have a 1-2KW vacuum impeller behind them. You have a what, 100-200W fan. The air resistance around the path to pull air in around the edge of the fan will be much lower than pulling it through those filters. Use a large pleated air filter next and with a large fan. Mattias Wandel's design works well - I made one, struggled for a while to find the correct term to find the filters - "Pleated G4 Filters". You can get away with a single G4 filter but could put a finer filter after the G4 if you wanted and had the static pressure.

@malcolmoxley1274 5 жыл бұрын

I had the same issue with an outside extractor,heat loss truly isnt an issue I put one in my small shop and placed a foam filter in front of the hole,no heat loss at all and it captures small dust particles,I'm not an expert in dust control so couldn't give you specified results but you already have the extractor give it a try

@zeroy 6 жыл бұрын

Have you ever checked out Mattias Wandel videos on making your own air filtration systems from wood and reclaimed parts from washing machines?

@sebastianwells5635 6 жыл бұрын

I believe its due to the power and of the fan, great video though like always, like everyone we always learn from our mistakes :-)

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks

@atteljas 6 жыл бұрын

Oh crap! I was looking for this episode so much. Feel bad for you, but youre such a MacGyver this is just temporary. 👍

@wauhawk 6 жыл бұрын

Air filtration is something that over powered isn't so bad. Like you said before this isn't your forever shop so investing in a unit with more power won't hurt you it will actually if anything do you better.

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Yeah I agree, just wish I had space for it to live

@wauhawk 6 жыл бұрын

Is under a bench or tool an option? Matthias Wandel has done videos on some smaller ones also.

@philipallen8648 6 жыл бұрын

Would use of your good dust extraction system for 20 to 30 minutes after machining improve air quality be an idea? Won't keep the shop warm but may be effective to add an electric delay relay to the shut down controls or do it manually.

@celynjones4958 6 жыл бұрын

Interesting video, thanks for posting it. While I know nothing about air filtration, I do use custom fans on my PC. Many comments point out that the square box is reducing the flow (static pressure), and possibly adding a second fan in a push-pull configuration may be the ticket i.e. one fan at each end of a tube ? Looking forward to a follow up and please keep on being entertaining, informative and very natural with your video style. Cheers and good luck with round two.

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@farmingbrit4611 6 жыл бұрын

you could take a look at poultry fan units that are designed to move as much air as possible but are pricey. ziehl fans are the best there is in poultry production , but would turn your workshop into a wind tunnel!😁

@stewartprice8881 6 жыл бұрын

Think cooker hood that uses filters and how that works .mine pulls the air and i think the fan is not upto the job ,its looks like the one in my bathroom

@stans5270 3 жыл бұрын

Several factors are causing the results. 1 - The fan is underpowered. 2 - Only the lightest and smallest particles will be at that level. Lower the box to 1.5 meters to make a meaningful difference. You can use a box fan with a filter attached as a cheap alternative. The HEPA filters [11-16] will clog immediately. Try a #8. You can use an old canister vacuum from a thrift store since size might be a factor.

@twwanderer 6 жыл бұрын

Thought I couldn't like this channel more ... then you hit me with experiments, graphs and some Excel AND Dylan (look at those toe beans)! This is what I'm here for! I'm going to be gutting an oscillating desk fan and building a Matias Wandel style one, which might work for you too. Maybe fitting it horizontally so it sucks up towards the ceilig with a v or x-shaped deflector above it so you can get it nice and tight to the ceiling to minimise the amount of headroom? Might be worth putting the Dyson filter on the output vent of your small Titan shopvac, putting the vent on your door to get the heat out in summer (but not the noise) and using the power hookup for a different filter setup.

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Haha I was a bit out of my depth with all the technical stuff but hopefully it made some sense

@2adamast 5 жыл бұрын

I used 4 vacuum hepa filters in parallel with a squirrel cage ventilator ( a little more pressure than axial) it didn't work either.

@emptytomb4967 6 жыл бұрын

i wonder if you left the port open to your hanging vacuum hose, it would help get out some of the airborne dust.

@knightrideruk 4 жыл бұрын

Hi Although the fan is probably underpowered the one thing that stands out is were is the cleaned air output?

@walterrider9600 6 жыл бұрын

thank you good info to me

@Bill.L.Carroll 6 жыл бұрын

Do you not think ir may be because you have the unit sealed? For good air flow, wouldn't the back wall of the unit be better if it were vented so the air had somewhere to go? Just a thought....

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

The back of the unit isn't sealed, not sure if it was clear in the video. The back of the unit had a circle cut out the same size as the filter to allow the air to go through. I suspect though that as others have pointed out the fan is too weak and the filters too dense! Thank you!

@EmM-ko7mu 4 жыл бұрын

can you try this again? All the videos are using box fans that you cant seem to get in the uk

@tapper1971 6 жыл бұрын

i would use a diyson hoover motor and the tube think you would get more suction from that

@brewer13210 2 жыл бұрын

So, two basic issues: 1) vacuum cleaner filters are designed for high velocity/low volume of air. That little bathroom fan can't generate nearly enough flow to get the necessary pressure drop across those filters. 2) As previously mentioned, that bathroom fan is just way too small...don't know the total volume of the shop, but it would take ages to circulate all of the air in the shop through that little fan. You'll have much better success using high quality furnace filters and a box fan.

@scalemodelenthusiast1633 6 жыл бұрын

If you can reverse the polarity on the fan so that you can pull air through the filters or flip the fan around your filter will work. I think you can create a vacuume in the box. Don’t give up on this if like to see you make it work. Your so close I think this will work. Look at how people clean the air in grow tents for hydroponic systems. This is very similar and will give you a good reference.

@petermenningen338 6 жыл бұрын

A couple of observations More air flow (air exchanges) is always better. You can always do short time runs with larger unit. Possibly reversing the direction of unit could help Push clean air into the shop from the corner. Use filters for air filtration rather than vacuum made for air flow and not pressure. Redo the box to have more filter area maybe make it wider than high. Place course filter on input (suction ) side of fan and fine on output side.

@JoseyOaks 4 жыл бұрын

Pull the air through the filters. Turn your fan around. It should work. Built one similar and it works just fine.

@seanandlee8280 6 жыл бұрын

Are the filters put in in the right direction as most have a flow direction.

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Yes, I suspect the fan was the wrong way round though judging by some of the other comments, and should have been pulling air in rather than pushing

@gopakitv7721 4 жыл бұрын

Use the same method but use a larger table or window fan and not a bathroom exhaust fan. Also, put the filters before the suction, not after the air suction.

@gte717v 4 ай бұрын

You used filter meant for a vacuum which could probably pull a vacuum around 35” of water. An in-line fan like the one you used could maybe do 2” on a good day. Try a filter meant for furnaces since they work as part of a system with much less required pressure differential.

@davidfanimation 6 жыл бұрын

Use a vent axia 6" standard range fan they are the strongest ones ! :)

@AllenGoldsmith 6 жыл бұрын

use an inline fan from screw fix (26867) its pulls a lot more air through. i was thinking put the inline fan in the extension and put 2 grills through the ajoining wall an IN and an OUT and put the filters inline through the ducting so it will take air out filter and put back into the workshop and that will make more of a notable difference??

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thank you nice ideas

@pgtips4240 6 жыл бұрын

I am very glad you shared this video because it has forced me to think more about the physics of the problem. Personally this is how I see it. You want a decent airflow to pass through the filter. As you rightly described, blowing air onto a dense filter will just cause turbulence and if there is no static pressure (high pressure) then there will be no pressure difference and the air will not flow. The air will only flow through the filter if the air pressure is higher at the entry side of the filter such that the air will be drawn through the filter toward a lower pressure at the exit side of the filter. So to me it would in theory seem better to get a fan with high static pressure but have it suck air out at the exit side of the filter, in other words create a low pressure area forcing air to pass through the filter. It's a balance between filter density and strength of the fan. But then you have to consider the cost of buying a better fan and whether it's really worth making your own? Unless as someone suggested you pick up a Dyson motor for free or very cheap? But then, if you get say a 1200 or 1400 watt motor, this is not exactly quiet, nor cheap to run for extended periods.

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Lots of thinking to be done 😃

@pgtips4240 6 жыл бұрын

Rag 'n' Bone Brown I used to have a very powerful fan that came with a cheap £50 bouncy castle and stupidly I gave the fan away after the bouncy castle wore out. If you can get a hold of one of these fans you will have all the pressure you will ever need because they are very powerful and come 240v as standard with plug fitted. You could even use one of these to build a very powerful dust extraction system.

@genericjesus8803 5 жыл бұрын

your video was still educational, thanks. We all 'fail' and we learn from it. People are still trying to make a better mouse trap. Look at the Wright brothers

@mururoa7024 6 жыл бұрын

1) Dyson filters are no good for this application, 2) your fan doesn't have nearly enough static pressure, 3) you always need more CFM than the actual volume of your shop. I made a copy of the Jet AFS500 airfilter using 18mm plywood, 6 high performance server fans I got for dirt cheap during a sale, and a leftover 150W PSU to feed them. It accepts one Jet pre-filter and one fine filter. The fans move about 103.8CFM (176m3/hr) each at 66 Pa. All 6 of them move a total of 622.8CFM (1058m3/hr), way more than the Jet AFS500 itself which max out at 353CFM (600m3/hr). I can tell you it does get the job done and you don't need a meter to notice ;) You can smell the air is clean, and you definitely see it because the filter turns brown when it's full. You could also make a slimmer 3 fans version of it if you cut the filters in half. PM me if you want the SketchUp plans and pictures. Link to the fans: www.amazon.com/Panaflo-120mm-FBA12G12H-1BX-103-8CFM-Computer/dp/B008LA75XG Other fans would work too as long as they have the same static pressure (66 Pa).

@Jack-ws3os 6 жыл бұрын

You should use one of the big oscillating desk fans.

@terrorfirma2764 6 жыл бұрын

My first thought was that the fan isn't powerful enough to push air through those filters. What flow rate is the extractor rated at? You may need 4 or 5 fans that size to get sufficient air flow.

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks you're probably right

@andrepoon 3 жыл бұрын

Dyson vacuum filters require high pressure. That fan extractor moves high volume of air at low pressure. Change the filter to a pleated one. Use one filter. Then upgrade the fan. This can still work. Never give up!

@MrBenjibogs 6 жыл бұрын

I would say a combination of underpowered fan and thick filters. Also the fan is trying to "push" the air through the filters and not suck it though them. Have you tried putting the fan in the other way round so it sucks the air in through the back of the unit?

@bsmith4592 5 жыл бұрын

please update us on your ventilation fan. chris lauden's idea seems correct

@mihazajc 6 жыл бұрын

Great experiment! mybe not an product just yet... but some very interesting info... specialy about the need for dust collection! one more (experimentaly tested!) reason ill build one asap! I would think of two things for improvement...1. larger fan... more sucction... input(or intake?) holes facing downward; and 2. id put the fan "to pull out the air of the box not to push it in" hope its clear what i mean? in a sense that air is pulled into the box into the two filters... driven out of the box at the end of the proces by the fan... maybe... :D good luck and thnx for sharing! maybe ill join the experiment soon when i start building my dust collection sistem... but probably not this year :O :D good luck!

@mihazajc 6 жыл бұрын

And yes i would also reconsider the place to put it... on the ciling i think it only picks the dust up in the air... maybe ... just my thought...

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I think you're right as others have said similar

@webchimp 6 жыл бұрын

A tip sor smoothing silicone, wet your finger with soapy water.

@almagill 6 жыл бұрын

Disclaimer... I am not an HVAC engineer in any way, shape or form but... Slower fan, moving a higher volume of air into a box with a large surface area for filters. First filter acts as a baffle, causing the air speed to drop, particles lose energy and become entangled in the filters. Your fresh air relatively slowly but in large volume exits the system. Your MkI system isn't a fail, it's just a prototype and I hope you build a good scrubber soon. Check out Matthias Wandel's really detailed build videos on his filtration system.

@tomhargrove4556 6 жыл бұрын

I think you are on the right track, however hepa filters can reduce air flow. Instead of having the filters stacked you my want to attempt having both filters exposed to the shop air. This should help to improve the CFM passing through the unit

@jakematic 6 жыл бұрын

The fan likely just doesn't have enough CFM to move any reasonable amount of air, and the filters exacerbate that. Wonder if you could put one of those bigger models under the table saw. They need to be fairly central to the room from what I've read. Have a WEN branded version of the Record Power you showed and it works very well for $125, but my ceiling is almost 3 meters tall...

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Yeah you're probably right. The filters were surprisingly thick although you could still feel the air coming through a little. Under the tablesaw - yeah that might work... the space below my saw is still empty following the removal of the titan vac... thank you!

@JasonShowell 6 жыл бұрын

As you used Dyson filters, can you not get the motor from a dyson vac and use that on the box? It must be powerful enough to get the air through the filters and i am sure you can get an old one from ebay?

@andljoy 6 жыл бұрын

Its not just CFM , you need static pressure to force the air through the filter. The filter also needs to be closer . So get a high CFM fan with high static pressure .

@Syrun81 6 жыл бұрын

As far as I know industrial filters on machines at my workplace, it seems that there is the air sucked through the filters rather than be blown through. I think this is maybe because the blowing creates more distortion right before the dust hits the filter and the particles won't go through the filters as easily.

@JasonShowell 6 жыл бұрын

Kai Seissler , I have no idea how true what you say is but it certainly sounds sensible and nearly all filtration units I have seen operate as you mention.

@macbaar 6 жыл бұрын

Just follow the dust... make your shop dark - no light if possible - and use a strong torch to see the flow of the dust - please move very slowly around or stand still and observe the air and what you are breathing in.... kind regards from switzerland

@bc3024 6 жыл бұрын

Has anyone mentioned trying to visualise the air flow patterns with smoke? A common technique used in clean room design. Use a smoke generator designed for purpose or, less expensive, a few incense sticks. I wonder if the main problem is the input being so close to the output, filtering the air in a very local area, rather than having a ‘sweep’ of air from the dirty area to the filtration unit. That issue would also apply to a shop bought unit.

@springboard9642 6 жыл бұрын

What volume of air is going through the extraction unit? If you're only moving a small fraction of the air then you're only getting a proportional amount of dust.

@markmc2011 6 жыл бұрын

Bummer it didnt work first time. Worth a few tweaks though. I agree with other comments that ifeally you would suck the air through the filters rather than trying to blow it through. Also, your fan is 250w. A typical dyson is 700w or there abouts. Maybe 2 thick filters are too much and you need a thinner pre filter with just one hepa filter?

@eduardvaniersel7535 6 жыл бұрын

Hi Keith, I think past of the problem is that the fan isn't powerful enough. But probably more important is that the filters are to small. A filter provides a lot of air resistance, so you need a larger surface area to compensate for that. In your case the filter has about the same surface area as the fan but I'm guessing it has to be at least two or three times a much.

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thank you

@cbassrips 4 жыл бұрын

20" floor fan and furnace filters. Done. I have 2 in my shop, just slightly larger than yours.

@bazzatron9482 4 жыл бұрын

In the UK, you can't buy simple 20" box fans, and we don't have furnaces here so furnace filters just aren't on the market - even on Amazon. I found this video looking for UK builds that worked with materials we can get in this country.

@davewalker1785 6 жыл бұрын

Use bigger filters a car radiator fan powered by a modified dell server psu and a cheap pwm board to control the speed that was my workaround I did the exact same build as you first attempt with similar results :)

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks glad to know I'm not alone!

@brandansystemtests1077 6 жыл бұрын

At least you tried the best 😁

@CreatingtheReaper 6 жыл бұрын

could use a hepa filter pad that furnaces systems and what not use and tape it to the front of a box fan. thats what i do anyway. seems like it works well enough. moves alot of air thats for sure.

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks

@slow96ss 6 жыл бұрын

Agree with the others. You have the fan backwards, it's supposed to draw in through the filters.

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks

@_J.F_ 6 жыл бұрын

Matthias Wandel has made loads and loads of videos on homemade dust collection and air cleaning, so I’m sure you can find something on his channel that will work for you.

@stevenmoore3130 Жыл бұрын

Great video. This s not tested. Just theory; I would suggest that your not moving enough air because your fan designed to move steam and moisture is not strong enough. As evidenced with the prefix "silent". The air has to pass through two strong filters. You said that the filters are from Dyson which comes with a good strong motor. You could find an old Dyson and repurpose that. Or, if it's too loud, you adapt your current set up to a suck and blow approach with the strongest fans you can find at around that size. Placing one fan before and one fan after the filter.the thing is, with two filters blocking the way, your solo bathroom fan is not pushing enough air to force the air through the filter. Keep going, crack it. With millions of small sheds world wide, you have an attentive audience.

@ontheslowside 6 жыл бұрын

As other have pointed out there are a couple issues that probably contribute to the poor performance. 1 - Bathroom fans are generally low cfm and very low pressure. 2 - Fans, in general, are better at pulling air than pushing it. 3 - HEPA filters are typically pretty restrictive. You could try remaking the project with a new design. The two filters on the outside, but not inline, and the fan in the middle pulling air out. Air would be pulled into the box through a filter on either end, then out the middle through the fan. But that fan might not be up to the task of moving air through those filters.

@iamlonefrog4252 6 жыл бұрын

Try a single filter in front of the fan, don't know if the motor on your fan has enough oomph (technical term) either. Hey Dillion!!!

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Suspect you're right.

@BjornV78 6 жыл бұрын

The idea and creation is very nice done, but a see a few problems. The biggest problem like the other comments below mentioned, is that the fan is too weak, and doesn't provide enough CFM, and also, the filters will lower the CFM, this reduction will even be more when the filters are getting dirty. Second big problem is, that the air direction is wrong. When you pull in dirty air through the fan, the fan will get dirty air and the lifespan will be reduced. If you let the fan blow in the other direction, then the fan gets only clean air. I bet your next design will be improved enough to work. Good luck.

@RagnBoneBrown 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks- great info

@Tensquaremetreworkshop 2 жыл бұрын

Good insight. Probably the fan was not sufficient to move the air through the filter- they are designed for high vacuum systems. BTW it was 200% higher, not 300% (12:01)

@alfredneumann4692 6 жыл бұрын

I think, the error is easy to detect: U used filter from a dyson vac. U need much much more pressure to get air through the filters. This toy fan has no power. The tube fan only works like a mixer.

@Woodden 6 жыл бұрын

Did you think to try different air filters. Could it be that the filters that you have now will not let the air move better. Some times the best filters might not be the right filters for the job.