MDF Verses Water Resistant MDF | Woodworking
Рет қаралды 51,476
9 ай бұрынRob Cosman compares MDF against Water Resistant MDF for woodworking applications
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@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Check out Rob's most viewed video of all time: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a9WVgMikttO4Zac.html
@1deerndingo 9 ай бұрын
When I eventually build a larger workbench I'll top it with MDF. I rang a supplier here in Australia. Three types: non water resistant, water resistant, water proof. The price for water resistant was $80 a sheet. The price for water proof was $750 for same size sheet. So, it's decided! I'll be waxing the top of the water resistant sheet.
@pawpawstew 9 ай бұрын
Alternatively, you could get the regular, and soak it with several coats of shellac.
@michaelhenderson4706 9 ай бұрын
Yo, I think both options ^ are going to be pretty damned slick. I'd just buy the cheap stuff, leave it unfinished and consider it a sacrificial top. Wax or shellac won't really do much for protection (you're gonna beat the hell out of the thing) and you'll end up with a skating rink of a top.
@tomkinney3216 9 ай бұрын
Extira by Jeld-Wen is, in my experience, a waterproof panel. I worked for a distributor that sold this to custom garage door manufacturers, sign makers, and cabinet makers for use in outdoor kitchens. I tested samples by fully immersing them in water and then leaving this water and the sample outside, in the winter, to freeze solid. No swelling or distortion occurred. I also used this to make five piece raised panel exterior shutters for my own home. Machines cleanly and finishes decently with oil based primer and acrylic top coat.
@susan_halla 9 ай бұрын
That’s what I use for outdoor products.
@jimmysiniawski7391 9 ай бұрын
Thank you guys
@11211lcb 9 ай бұрын
I first started using water resistant MDF in 2011. The color is green, easy to recognize. I placed a small chunk in a bird bath over night and the next day it was darker green but had not swollen, or changed size, or deteriorated. Good for flat slab Euro style kitchen cabinet door and drawer fronts. Paint in the usual manner of painting MDF.
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing
@GARDENER42 9 ай бұрын
Coincidentally, the water resistant version here in the UK is also green (as are water resistant flooring sheets).
@robertlevine2152 9 ай бұрын
I would be interested in changes in strength, both compressive and tensile. It would be nice to know if there is a change in the ability of a screw to hold after it is water soaked.
@Jadan888 4 ай бұрын
Where can I purchase this Trupan material? I contacted the manufacturer, and they told me to talk to their distributors. The companies on their list do not respond to emails. If anyone knows where to purchase it in the Miami area, please post that info.
@rogerhoene5304 9 ай бұрын
A well done test!
@TWC6724 9 ай бұрын
Thanks Rob and team.
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching
@danthechippie4439 9 ай бұрын
Hi Rob, a while ago I suggested using trickoya mdf on your cosman bench. It's compleatly waterproof but expensive. The manufacturer even recommend it for outdoor projects. We buried a section for about a year under ground and when we dug it up it was wet and dirty but didn't swell in dementions.
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Well I use a ton of birds-eye maple and I can tell you it is definitely not waterproof and it moves with changes in humidity like all wood, except torrified wood
@danthechippie4439 9 ай бұрын
Hi, I didn't mention maple, I was referring to trickoya. I understand maple, even birds eye isn't waterproof like any other species of natural wood
@55realitycheck 9 ай бұрын
Love your channel Rob. You are very talented and give a novice woodworker a challenge. However, I really wanted to applaud your for promoting the purple heart project. Not a phrase i was familiar with before this, but I understand it's purpose. great work. Support our troops.
@Artexmadera 9 ай бұрын
Such a simple test...but so informative...I´ll even give mdf a second chance after seeing your video, Thanks!
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@Grunt49 9 ай бұрын
Great test.Thanks
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching
@alanmckeown6462 9 ай бұрын
Nice test
@kiwdwks 9 ай бұрын
Appreciate the video...good information! Thank you.
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching
@MrTooTechnical 9 ай бұрын
Awesome
@kentboys5017 9 ай бұрын
What was the name brand of the dark water resistant MDF? Did you get yours from a supplier in Canada or USA? Great video and test on how these MDF products react with water. Thanks for sharing! Take care👍🏻
@michaelpayne8102 9 ай бұрын
30 years ago I saw some of these products (MDF and Particle) at the trade shows sitting in Aquariums, definitely a specialty product that you won’t find in the big box store but great when you need it and can find it.
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Thanks for the comment
@darrylportelli 9 ай бұрын
Thanks Rob - given the exorbitant increases in price of plywood, im going to attempt to make some shop cabinets with MDF - it is significantly cheaper and in my garage shop will not come in contact with any water so i think it is a good choice. I love mdf for sleds as well .. the dust is a bit of a drawback but i use a good respirator and keep it on for at least 15 mins after i cut any mdf to let the dust settle and open the garage door
@lucashurt6639 9 ай бұрын
Time 1:59 Light Color = Armorite Exterior MDF by Roseburg Dark Color = Trupan Moisture Resistant MDF by Arauco
@vince55sanders 9 ай бұрын
Right on
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching
@euopful 9 ай бұрын
In the UK we have a product called Medite Tricoya Extreme that is excellent, if a bit pricey. The manufacturer guarantees it for 50 years if used outdoors above ground, 25 years below ground.
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
And its MDF?
@paulburke9884 9 ай бұрын
@@RobCosmanWoodworking yes, the stuff is insane, far beyond water resistant mdf. Though it’s around £200 a sheet or more in uk, where good quality moisture resistant is around 1/3 the price. Very much a get what you pay for….
@marvinnelson5073 9 ай бұрын
There are several brands. Made a store sign from Medex 30 years ago. Still solid sound good shape. Made vacuum molds from it. Machines very well. Noticeably stiffer. Main problem was difficulty getting it. For a lot of applications, it would replace Baltic birch. Haven’t worked with newer products like being used for outdoor house trim.
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Great comment. Thanks for sharing
@AxGryndr 9 ай бұрын
I did a similar test as I was making cabinet doors for a bathroom. The first set of doors swelled because of the humidity of a shower. My local plywood dealer recommended Armorite and I was shocked and how much better it held up compared to regular MDF.
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing your real world experience
@jhcampbell7528 9 ай бұрын
Really interesting video, Rob. I noticed a difference in your two shooting boards - the larger one has a foundation that is darker than the smaller shooting board. Is the larger shooting board made more recently with some of the Trupan, or does it have a finish (oil, wax, etc.)? As always, thank you for the education.
@bradleytuckwell4881 9 ай бұрын
I use MDF a lot and I always hit it with a few coats of polyurethane and it seems to hold up. But I haven’t seen the water resistance brand in Australia I will be checking around to see if we carry it over here. As always thanks for sharing this one Rob it’s great to know it’s out there.
@TheLindsay720 9 ай бұрын
You can get it from DMK Forest Products in Brisbane and Gold Coast. Not sure if that is helpful to you.
@TheLindsay720 9 ай бұрын
Also their website only lists 16 and 18mm but you can get 12mm also. Not sure about other thicknesses.
@bradleytuckwell4881 9 ай бұрын
@@TheLindsay720 thanks mate much appreciated
@LarryBloom 9 ай бұрын
Good info!!! As you pointed out, we use MDF for it's dimensional stability and it's very flat surface. From my perspective, the light colored water-resistant MDF (Armorite) is just a fail. Yes, better than regular, but still fails in both the things we want from MDF! The darker (Trupan) on the other hand, did a pretty good job. Of course, they do market this stuff as water-resistant ("applications with high humidity and incidental moisture content"), so your test was a bit of a torture test for it...and yet the Trupan seemed to hold up well! Thanks for this! Now I wonder where I can find this stuff!!!
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
You should be able to look it up on the internet, and I understand there a lot of other manufacturers now
@jshanab42 9 ай бұрын
The dark one looks just like the regular mdf when I have put a couple coats of osmo on it. I trimmed one after the fact and had a rubbery strip about a 1/16 thick I could of edge banded plywood with. I made two mini shooting boards and did laqure on one and osm on the other. It is plesently weird how it reacts to osmo.
@yellowdog2181 9 ай бұрын
We use a lot of Medex , moisture resistant from Roseburg . It is a much more refined product than Trupan , which makes it incredibly heavy compared to Trupan .
@rogerdudra178 9 ай бұрын
Greetings from the BIG SKY. I used MDF for the chair seat in a chair I made because of the stability of the material. I sure hope it doesn't get wet.
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Yes you dont want that
@rogerdudra178 9 ай бұрын
@@RobCosmanWoodworking I guess I'm ok with it, but my heirs I hope don't get this chair wet or they'll learn about MDF.
@lynxg4641 9 ай бұрын
Great little bit of info very interesting would definitely be worth the extra cost IMHO. Think you missed the last/final step/test which to me would have been hitting it with a mallet on the sword edge to see if it crumbled or stayed together.
@stevebabiak6997 9 ай бұрын
The other test I would have liked to see is elongation - the wet end did expand in the thickness dimension, and might have expanded in the length (or width) dimension also but that was not measured.
@sjeff70 9 ай бұрын
Not readily available in the US, depending on where you live. Maybe in 5-10 years?
@Ox-Plays 7 ай бұрын
I wish this stuff was available locally.
@taylormedia1000 9 ай бұрын
Astonishing. That was a worst-case scenario. As you know, Water Resistant could easily mean you can spill a liquid on it and wipe it up. But soaking it in water overnight is a real test. I agree, it’s well worth the extra cost. I wonder if it wears as well.
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
We have been using it for a few months and so far so good
@jamalama5548 9 ай бұрын
Anyone know where this can be purchased?
@plexibreath 9 ай бұрын
Rob, would you please do a video on how to sharpen gouges?
@rolandgdean 9 ай бұрын
What brands are available and how and where can I get them?
@barrydoxseyuk 9 ай бұрын
There is another type called 'Tricoya' mdf. I have used it for external use as a garage/workshop door. It has been rated for external decorative panels. However, it is expensive.
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing. I suspect there is other water resistant MDF out the too
@miket3445 9 ай бұрын
Here in Aus I prefer the WR MDF when making shaker style cabinet doors on the CNC…….it doesn’t fur up as much as the regular MDF making it easier and quicker to prepare for painting, saving time and effort
@craigchisholm2643 9 ай бұрын
Thanks for that video Rob - currently working on a project that had exterior grade MDF panels specified as part of an exterior adornment. My colleagues and I had our suspicions on whether it could handle the local environment, so we lobbied for a change in materials. The materials were changed, thankfully I'm thinking now!
@mitchellbernstein42 9 ай бұрын
Great content as always. Can the regular MDF be sealed and with what would you recommend?
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Yes you can put a finish on it but you cannot “seal out” moisture. Unless you encased it in epoxy, moisture will penetrate any oil or water based finish. The absorption rate is slower than a non finished surface but moisture will get in
@garyleonard9178 9 ай бұрын
That is a pretty tough test for water resistance. I'd use either of the two WR mdf if I could get them here in the states
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
I know its available in the U.S. but probably not in the big box stores. Need to go to specialty wood sellers
@RobyWanKenobi 9 ай бұрын
Plywood Company of Fort Worth is where I get Medex but they also sell the Armorlite.
@dalescott3077 9 ай бұрын
Love the Content. Can you please advise the source for these here in Canada? Thanks
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Well we get ours locally in Fredericton, but thats why I included the manufacturers name so you can look them up and get the closets distributor to you.
@b2pi 9 ай бұрын
I do wish you'd tested a treated MDF (regular MDF with a latex primer and a wood sealant on top)..., but Thanks
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Maybe another video
@loki7441 9 ай бұрын
I hate the stuff, but the water resistant one gives me a glimmer of hope. Rob you should try a Burn / Fire test. That MDF burns faster than a credit card in the wife's handbag.
@herkhaston1915 9 ай бұрын
Used it for years
@multifaceted29 9 ай бұрын
Respectfully, isn't submersing the samples for 24 hours testing "water proof" vs. "water resistant"? Nonetheless, great video - insightful!
@66meikou 9 ай бұрын
This was interesting. The European market gets far higher quality sheet goods then us mugs on this side of the pond, I know as I'm from the UK. As a result and as an architect, I always call out for MDO/HDO. You get the same stability. Both are used for outdoor signage plus you get the smooth painting surface.
@GARDENER42 9 ай бұрын
I built Rob's MDF bench here in the UK using water resistant MDF, as it was on offer at a price near enough the same as standard stuff. The bench was thoroughly soaked in Danish oil too, as the garage I use as a workshop is definitely a little damp in winter. I've had no issues at all. ETA Could you repeat the test using MDF treated with Danish oil? That would give an idea of how much protection it has against moisture.
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Yes a lot of folks have asked that so we will put it on the to do list
@thomasalison6188 9 ай бұрын
Extira is another brand of exterior rated MDF. I've heard good things about it.
@StinkyParadox 9 ай бұрын
Ummmm what was brand #2 called?
@richardcross9123 9 ай бұрын
Rob, which MDF do you use on your workbench? It appears to be darker like the one tested above.
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
We now use the darker water resistant MDF (Trupan)
@timstratton9 9 ай бұрын
Really interesting. Thanks. I wonder what happens if you let them sit for 2min in water not 24hours. In my experience regular MDF would be likely destroyed but I’d bet the others wouldn’t even change. Water resistant not proof.
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
well I can tell you with regular unfinished MDF if I get it wet for two minutes it will swell up. With regular MDF I have to always trim the edges before using as juts sitting around the shop the edges absorb moisture from the air and swell
@robertbamford8266 9 ай бұрын
Very interesting. A few thoughts. I watch builders wrap mdf sheathing a few days after rain. I wonder what they are trapping. It looked like the water had migrated nearly all the way across your non-wp sample. Did your mdf samples change in surface smoothness after they dried?
@MarcosElMalo2 9 ай бұрын
It would have been interesting if he tested penetration of the water. He could have used tinted water and cut a cross section. Maybe another day.
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
I tried to address that in the video. To my hand the water resistant MDF faces still felt "normal"
@madtitan9639 9 ай бұрын
Is the dust from the water resistant MDF worse than the from the regular MDF? I actually don't mind the dust from MDF that much. I mean, I don't like breathing dust, but it doesn't make me sneeze my head off, like western red cedar, for instance. Will it take regular wood glue? Or is it so much plastic you need to use something special?
@fredpierce6097 9 ай бұрын
Interesting and useful analysis but I think there could have been a comment or two about what can or cannot be done to make regular mdf water repellent or, if there is no such thing, then a statement of this fact. For example, is there any spray-on product that might be effective? Of course, I can look into this easily on Google and KZfaq…. Nice video!
@victoryak86 2 ай бұрын
Excellent point. I’ve heard some people use polyurethane or shellac as two possibilities. I’m sure either would be a ,AJ or improvement for water resistance but what they’d do for mdf as a working surface (very slick) is another question. Cheers.
@beechersmith-stackhouse3082 9 ай бұрын
Do these waterproof types have PFAs or other concerning chemicals in them?
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
No clue
@BKOLOMAY 5 ай бұрын
How would you laminate them together to make a bench top for the Cosman bench? I would think that wood glue or any other PVA would never adhere to the faces.
@RobCosmanWoodworking 5 ай бұрын
Glues very well.
@Zzibrahim16zZ 9 ай бұрын
Rob. Love your channel I learned a lot from watching your work great job keep it up. I work making signs the water resistant MDF is a great product. They also have the MDO, which is similar to plywood also water resistant. We use it for signs on billboards projects. Very stable product
@cindyharrison4191 9 ай бұрын
How can I get your tools in England. I don't see any on amazon
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
We don’t sell on Amazon. You can order directly from us or our UK distributor, Classic Hand tools
@richardsweet5068 9 ай бұрын
I once worked in the same complex as a sign writer. He was persuaded to use waterproof mdf for shopfront signs, despite primer, 3 coats of undercoat and 3 coats of gloss on all faces . every sign failed. They blew out sometimes in the middle of the sign well away from any fastenings. Total disaster.
@Erik_The_Viking 9 ай бұрын
I'm curious how those would compare with Valchromat, which is a water resistant MDF from Europe.
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
If we had any of that stuff we could test it
@ofpfury 9 ай бұрын
I skipped through most of the measuring, thinking I would get to the chart at the end showing results of all the tedium. Boy was I surprised! Love your channel otherwise :)
@J.A.Smith2397 9 ай бұрын
😮
@petelopez8841 9 ай бұрын
Where can you purchase the water resistant MDF in Canada
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Yes. We do. We by it our our local distributor in Frederickton NB
@dirtydenzal545 9 ай бұрын
I’m in England and have used a product called tricoya but it’s pretty expensive 👍
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Is it Water resistant MDF too?
@danthechippie4439 9 ай бұрын
No tricya is 100 % waterproof. It's very expensive. We buried a piece under ground for about a year. Dug it up and apart from being dirty and wet it's dementions were perfect. I suggested to you a while ago to try it on the Cosman work bench
@ToxicSpork 9 ай бұрын
Would have been interesting to see how it cut after being soaked vs a new piece
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Sorry we didn't do that but we were thinking a project getting wet after you built it so there would be no need to re-cut it
@CrimeVid 9 ай бұрын
I once tested some samples of genuinely waterproof MDF, from a local builders merchant. I cut them in half to obviate cheating and left them in a water tank outside for the winter. It was summer by the time I remembered it ! I got the samples out, dried them roughly and put a 3/8” drill bit through them, dry drillings, marvellous ! Phoned merchants, wonderful ! where can I get this stuff ? Answer; very sorry sir, they’ve gone out of business !! I think this was an experimental product from Sundeala in Sunbury on Thames. But no use now, gone ! Rats !!
@f.kieranfinney457 9 ай бұрын
I see Europeans using a black water resistant mdf for work surfaces. Wish it was available here. Looking for an outdoor (covered porch) table top for a spoilboard, might the Trupan hold up?
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Yes I think it would work, but I have not tested it
@grousehaven9756 8 ай бұрын
A little epoxy goes a long way. While I don't see that material showing up at my local lunberyard.
@Exodus5K 9 ай бұрын
I wonder how they're treating their MDF to make it water resistant?
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
No clue
@512banana1 9 ай бұрын
i like yo hair!
@bobbycresap4440 9 ай бұрын
Did your barber retire?
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Covid clowns (Govt) put her out of business!
@eggsngritstn 9 ай бұрын
*versus
@daleevola2512 9 ай бұрын
Uh, what's the brand? Can't you say?
@thekinarbo 9 ай бұрын
There are even better brands that are rated for outdoor use. Tricoya is one and I think Medite is another. Yeah, it's crazy that he didn't state the brand names. Makes the video almost pointless.
@Jerry_Fried 9 ай бұрын
"Versus"
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching
@tonyrigger 9 ай бұрын
No wait 😅
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Thanks fir commenting
@vincenttanner8977 4 ай бұрын
😂 wish it was only 20% more. Not in the uk it’s about 900% more. 18mm is around £35 where as the tricyoya is £364. 🤦♂️🤦♂️ffs
@MarcosElMalo2 9 ай бұрын
Yes, find “oot” for us. 😜
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Thanks for commenting
@MarcosElMalo2 9 ай бұрын
@@RobCosmanWoodworking Sorry, I was just cutting up. It was a very interesting video about a new material I’m interested in. And it’s not like I didn’t see the maple leaf on your clothes. 😊
@quietwoodworking 9 ай бұрын
This video is not too useful unless the source information of the better Water Resistant MDF is listed.
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
What source info??? We just dunked MDF in water to see if water resistant MDF holds up better than regular MDF. Our test is the source info!
@rmm9676 4 ай бұрын
Mr. Cosman is just too busy it seems. He does not get that you are simply asking about the manufacturer. Other viewers give the answer above.
@quietwoodworking 4 ай бұрын
Thanks, I read some other comments and it looks like Extira by Jeld-Wen may be a good product.@@rmm9676
@shukfaizi 18 күн бұрын
Wrong experiment. you left the two other in water longer while drying up and measuring the first one :)
@billrogers6863 9 ай бұрын
That was pretty painful to watch. Seems like "water resistant MDF" has a ways to go before it is ready for prime time.
@matseriksson8177 8 ай бұрын
I haven't watched Rob for some time. Where is he? And who's that hippie?
@MrErViLi 9 ай бұрын
OMG! I haven't watched one of your videos in quite a while. What happened to your head? Cut your hair ya dang hippie! 🤗
@johnburens3395 9 ай бұрын
It would be interesting to see how strength is compromised after introducing moisture to both.
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 ай бұрын
Yes it would. Maybe another video
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