What are your top 3 favorite land MDFCs?

TLDR for video: 3 of Tomers friend worry for their friend who doesn't understand why Ondu Inversion is good, but somehow loves Malakir Rebirth

Listen up algorithm, everyone needs to see this.

I like that Tomer is worried about bala ged recovery being too expensive at 3 dollars but the other cards are bad because they dont work well with the 100 dollar cabal coffers

Not every card in the mono black list needs to fuel Coffers. You need stuff to throw all that excess black mana into, and an X spell that can get tons of creatures back is a decent way to do it, and it's a land when you need it.

Before I've even watched this, I wanna say that I have fewer than 0 complaints about these super super long episodes. Please don't worry too much about keeping them short!

The one thing I've learned from this video is that Tomer loves Basic Lands more than I thought was possible.

Tangled Florahedron works the reverse of every other MDFC. Every other card, you’ll play as a land on turn 2, and maybe use it as its spell on later turns. Florahedron hits the table as a creature on 2, and as a land on later turns. I think that’s where the confusion comes from.

I love playing MDFCs, and I also love using the Ravnica bounce lands to bounce MDFCs I’ve used as lands in the early game back to my hand to use as spells later. But I’m also a super greedy player

I cant wait for tomer vs the rest of the crew for ondu inversion.

Setting the context for the ranks /and/ then also going through each person's own opinion on MDFCs. 10/10!!! Adds great context ontop of y'all's great discussions!

Seth saying kazuuls fury combos with his song mad treachery was golden and made my day

Charm tier list needs to be a thing now.

"C: is average" "C means I'm not happy casting this" Tomer is apparently unhappy casting the average magic card

"The rate on Sea Gate is bad, you're only drawing 1 or 2" I need to see this man's Blue-Inclusive Hellbent deck, because I don't think I've ever seen a blue-inclusive deck go down to an empty hand, much less on their own accord.

I have not played EDH since Zendikar but Seth, Richard, and Crim all legitimately sold me on Ondu Inversion

Malakir rebirth is by far the mdfc I’ve cast the most obvious s tier. I mainly play syr Konrad and he always draws hate and this is clutch time and time again

Valakut Awakening and Bala Ged Recovery are the only two MDFCs I think literally every on color deck should run, so I think those are my top two and in a tier of their own.

Richard on Tangled Florahedron: ...5C included, every deck. Just tossing fuel on the flames.

Is that what we’re going to do today? Fight?

I'm with Seth, Agadeem's Awakening is and S tier card. It can either be a land or a reanimation spell. I think the group is a little caught up on the either or instead of the flexibility. I play it in Muldrotha. I think Tomer is correct in his assessment on Malakir Rebirth, but I think he's off on Emeria's Call and Ondu Inversion. While I don't think Ondu Inversion is S tier but it's definitely A tier. Richard definitely explained it well. It doesn't necessarily have to sit in your hand, you can play it as a land. The key to the MDFC's is their flexibility.

I legit laughed out loud seeing the title for this, this will be interesting...

The florahedron is actually more than just a rampant growth or tapped Land. In golgari Decks that count the number of creatures in graveyards this increases the count ( Izoni, Jarad, Songs of the Damned , Splinterfright, golgari gravetroll, spider spawning , mausoleum secrets and soo much moooore!) . It is the only mdfz I’m actually playing ...

This is my favorite podcast because they shoot for an hour and I can see them doing a 3 hour show on accident.

Props to Tomer for continuing to push one of the best Commander cards: Hour of Revelation. It's a massive upgrade from Planar Cleansing, which I consider the "base" for that effect, and I need to see more people playing it. Keep fighting the good fight! With that being said, Tomer, you are dead wrong about Ondu Inversion. I need you to understand: I would play this even in your worst case scenario in a deck with Emeria Shepherd, Emeria the Sky Ruin, Strata Scythe, etc, etc. It is that important to have an answer to an otherwise unanswerable board state. You're right insofar as this card is not as good as Hour of Revelation (one less white mana, though, for the record), and you're right: i wouldn't replace any of the other "Planar Cleansing" cards for this. I would, however, replace a basic plains every. single. time. Is this card better than Hour of Revelation? No, of course not. But it's not competing against Hour of Revelation. It's competing against the 37th land in your Commander deck. The downside of coming into play tapped as a land *is worth* the ability for it to save a game of Commander in the lategame. I know you said that you've had many games where it sits in your hand and you're unable to cast it, but that's not a valid criticism *if* it's a part of your mana base; in that circumstance, a basic plains would have been just as worthless. The key metric in such a scenario is whether a land entering tapped will cost you the game more times than casting Ondu Inversion will win you the game. I assert that's a trade worth making every time. I've seen you run Guildgates in your budget lists because the mana fixing is more important than coming into play tapped, a decision that I agree with. This is similar: it's worth playing a bad land because it solves a more important problem. Edit: To add on, cards like Malakir Rebirth and Tangled Florahedron are cards that I would count in the "spells" section of the deck. Their front sides are good enough that I would want to cast them as a real spell, and they then have the added upside of being a land if you're mana screwed. Ondu Inversion is the opposite: a card I wouldn't want as a "spell" in my deck, because there are more efficient spells than it, but a card that I count as better than another land in nearly just about every deck that has white.

You should add a disclaimer when someone badmouths Eternal Witness guys!!! LOL, I had a mini heart attack

Tomer: There's a time and place for MDFCs Seth, Richard, Crim: But we like them. Audience: Tomer is the villain.

Something I'd like to mention about the "getting a Llanowar elf with turntimber symbiosis", if you dig Seven cards and the best creature was the elf, I'd be at least happy about the fact that the rest goes to the bottom. I traditionally don't run much noncreature heavy green decks, so pitching all those cards away has some advantage to it

I'm mostly with Tomer on the ratings. I think many people greatly underestimate how bad tapped lands are.

The wubrg thing didn't bother me.... until Tomer mentioned it and now I just can't stop thinking about it

Seth: so its another hull breacher Crim: I play other creatures Me: yeah like notion thief

I think everyone had some good points in this video. The effectiveness of these lands definitely depends on each individual deck and strategy. Great video!

The moment we've all been waiting for. Tangled Florahedron = S teir or we riot!

honestly tangled florahedron is one that you have to play to see how good it is. I slotted it in on a whim to try it out and it's always great!

I live for Seth's face during Tangled Florahedron

At some point they will need to embrace the fact that this podcast is just 2 hours long...

When you love Malakir Rebirth & Ondu Inversion equally 😵‍💫

I mean I dont see why Ondu is bad, but I 100% would not have it as an auto include, which is what this tier list equates to S. So I would give it an A Top 3 for me: Valakut Awakening Bala ged recovery Seagate restoration

So Seth likes to imagine magical Christmas land. Richard is seemingly level headed but loves things that are generically powerful to improve his jank tribes. Crim likes instants. And Tomer likes good cards.

Possible Topic: Is it better to incentivize or force an opponent to do something you want? It’d be a deeper dive on politics. Incentivize gives them resources and they can not but keeps their graces. Inversely forcing leaves them no choice which can build resentment. As a player which would you rather do to another player? Why? When? Etc. Another way to term it would be are Threats better or worse than Deals?

im fully supportive of tomers position with Ondu Inversion,

Probably one of the most important episodes, given how often it is referenced in clash

This is fantastic, I was just wandering which one should I put into my deck. This video is right on time! :D

To me, Ondu Inversion would be an A. I have had instances where I need a wipe effect on T5-6 and where I had 7 mana and only that card as a land which made for pretty awkward situations. Since its effect is 8 mana, I wouldn't replace a land with it in my deck as well, so although I believe it is very good, there are a few times where I wouldn't put it in my deck but most of them will have it. Edit: Oh and for my top 3. I'd say 1-Valakut's Awakening, 2-Bala Ged Recovery, 3-Ondu Inversion (sorry Tomer)

I'm writing this comment as I listen: So, I may be missing an implication by the statement... but everyone does not have Cabal Coffers. Maybe in MODO, but otherwise no that card is expensive as hell. I do wanna say that Urborg exists and is generally put into any deck running black which is far more financially doable than CC. It should also be noted that as powerful as CC is, you don't need them for mono-black to keep up.

My take on Ondu Inversion: if I'm casting an 8 mana boardwipe, I want it to be able to leave me ahead of the rest of the table, rather than leave everyone at parity. Maybe it could be worth half a land slot and half a spell slot, but most of the time I don't think it would make the cut for me.

The content we needed

The idea that somehow a board wipe/tap land is worse than a Plains because it doesn't trigger Emeria or you get one less Mana from Caged Sun is factually absurd. The notion that you'll never get that last Plains is nuts, you'll get there eventually, meanwhile this Ondu Inversion could save the day. It's a no brainer.

1) Makalir Rebirth 2) Balaged Recovery 3) Emeria's Call

So Seth likes to imagine magical Christmas land. Richard is seemingly level headed but loves things that are generically powerful to improve his hand tribes. Crim likes instants. And Tomer likes good cards.

I’m surprised they never mentioned the downside of Sea Gate Restoration, you need to have an already decently sized hand (3+) in order to get real value from it. Casting a 7 mana draw two cards is pretty rough

This podcast is the ravings of a mad man and that mad man is Tomer!

MDFC's power is that you never flood AND you never drought/screw when drawing them. Flood and drought are the most feels bad aspect of mtg. MDFC's are simultaneously letting you play a spell while being a spell to play. Taking a hit to quality to ensure consistency means a smoother over all game and will pad out your win percentage constantly.

It's so adorable when Tomer asks SETH for help with pronunciation... OF ALL PEOPLE, SETH!

It honestly never occurred to me that an experienced player would look at the MDFCs and count them as a spell rather than a land or at least a fraction of a land. I don't know how to prove/disprove such a thing, but every fiber of my being tells me that this is objectively wrong. Like, obviously so.

I count them as a spell, and use them only in game if I’m missing a land drop. Spell with land drop fixing

I struggle loving Agadeem's Awakening because most reanimator decks are trying to cheat in large mana value creatures, so it's difficult to pay enough into X for it to be worth it a lot of the time. However, I think it's a great card in specific decks that use low mana value creatures and that gain value from recurring them (as seen in standard with Lurrus + rogues)

"Charms are fantastic, how dare you" - peak Tomer :D

Tangled Florahedron draws cards off of guardian project, great henge, beastcaller, etc. etc. it’s definitely good in heavy green decks.

loved the video would love to see more structure arguments like this, was extremely fun

Common card draw cards ranked when?

Once again Tomer's brain is casting Worm Harvest

Tomer cannot fathom why someone would exchange a plains for a tapped land for the option to boardwipe sometimes. How is this possible.

I evaluate almost all MDFCs as flood insurance. When you draw them late, they’ll do a thing instead of being a land. Cards like Sea Gate Restoration and Valakut Awakening, then, are pretty mopey. Cards like Hagra Mauling and Shatterskull Smashing, on the other hand, affect the board in a big way. Silundi Vision > Sea Gate Restoration in any deck with a decent amount of instants and sorceries. It’ll at least dig 6 deep for something good. Sea Gate Restoration is gonna draw one or two cards at best 99% of the time.

I feel like a part of Tomer not being as willing to run MDFC lands is the fact that he is usually brewing budget decks and card efficiency is much more important in a budget list, tapped lands and expensive spells have a bigger impact on the curve/spells per turn in a budget list compared to a nonbudget list.

spikefield hazard turns a regular death to an exile effect, at instant speed... the spikefield doesn't have to actually kill the creature as long as it was dying already. seems a little underrated

I play Agadeem's in Orah clerics. It is invaluable. Need to reanimate stuff? Gotcha bud. Someone Bojuka bogged your yard? Still a land.

I agree with how Seth value highly the MDFC to S or A, sometimes people forget that MDFC is also a land it will never be a dead card in hand.

This topic might be one of the most controversial topics in magic after the reserved list

1) Bala Ged Recovery 2) Valakut Awakening 3) Glasspool Mimic I think 1 and 2 are very obviously the best to me. I struggled to decide on a 3rd, so I picked a card I think is very good and cool. Costed appropriately and although it is mostly limited to creature strategies, it fits any creature strategy.

The real question is, "Where does Hedron Archive land on this list?"

I enjoyed the discussion, and just to also reiterate something that was eluded to early on in the video. A deck should only have so many tapped lands, so sure, these offer versatility, but outside of budget/specific decks, you don't want more than ~6-7 (~20% of your mana base) enters tapped lands, so these also compete against your utility land slots a lot of the time. Top 3 MDFCs: 1) Sea Gate Restoration 2) Bala Ged Recovery 3) Agadeem's Awakening (with a 3.5 of Khalni Ambush) And personally I think Khalni Ambush is a lot better than Kabira Takedown in letter grade. You don't always need the biggest creature on board for Ambush to have value, an Acidic Slime, Ambush Viper, Hornet Queen token, Ice-Fang Coatl, any creature with Ohran Frostfang on the battlefield after the damage step, etc., can just as easily be thrown under the bus to kill something. Yes, it's a 2 for 1, but in mono green the main way to get rid of creaturess if with a fight effect, so I'd rather 2 for 1 myself if it gets something off the board that will either kill me or have the opponent win the game. The only saving grace of Takedown is that it can target planeswalkers, but if you have a lot of creatures to kill one, you also can most likely swing through to just damage it directly. Though with my playstyle I'd rather have 1-several meduim-large threats vs. many little ones. Plus green only really has beast within and fight effects, white has much better options for single target creature removal. On Tangled Florahedron: I'm in the early planning stages of a 99 creature/land, Ruic Thar, deck, with hopefully a landfall subtheme, and I don't think this will make the cut. I'd rather play a 3 mana wood elf effect, than 2 mana for a bad dork/land. I basically want a dork that taps for 1 mana to be at 1 CMC one that can tap for more than 1 mana at 2 CMC, and a land ramp creature at 3 CMC. I mean there's at least 6 1 CMC dorks that tap for 1 mana, and many better ones at 2 mana that Tangled Florahedron shouldn't ever make the cut, right? And that's ignoring every green ramp spell, so it shouldn't be a contest. I will say, you did forget to mention that this could maybe go in elemental tribe decks to get more risen reef value. 1 CMC: Arbor Elf, Birds of Paradise, Boreal Druid, Elvish Mystic, Fyndhorn Elves, Llanowar Elves, Sakura-Tribe Scout 2 CMC: Bloom Tender, Devoted Druid, Gyre Sage, Llanowar Scout, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Priest of Titania, Whisperer of the Wilds 3 CMC: Dawntreader Elk, Elvish Rejuvenator, Farhaven Elf, Llanowar Tribe, Rishkar Peema Renegade, Selvala Heart of the Wilds, Shaman of Forgotten Ways, Somberwald Sage, Wood Elves, Yavimaya Dryad That's 24 creatures, that should all be, in most cases, better than Florahedron. On Ondu Inversion: 8 mana is a lot, so I wouldn't put this at S tier, and I already run ~5 board wipes in my decks and ~8 targeted removal, plus in my few decks, I don't run enough plains to replace one with Ondu Inversion. Plus with an average of 35 lands, I don't like the idea of it taking up a utility land slot. Maybe in decks I run more basics I'd be willing to try it out to have a 6th board wipe in a deck, but I've yet to use Hour of Revelation, so I don't think this would make the cut. In my 2 decks that contain white, I don't really have the space to fit Ondu in. Atraxa, Praetor's Voice big creature counters deck (only runs 3 basic plains): Black Sun's Zenith, Merciless Eviction, Toxic Deluge, Cyclonic Rift, Bane of Progress Ghired, Conclave Exile lots of tokens deck (only runs 1 basic plain): Austere Command, Hour of Reckoning, Martial Coup, Phyrexian Rebirth, "Aura Shards" (close enough to a wipe in a creature/token deck)

Seth: Commander Players don't play enough lands Me with my 19 land Anje deck: And?

So here's what I would say about mdfcs if you put them in a spell slot with the intention to cast them as a spell they also function as a land when you need the land. If you build your deck with enough lands and treat them as spells they're just redundancy which is always good

You can't get blown out by Hullbreacher with Valakut Awakening. You choose the cards you put into your library as the spell resolves.

MDFC Landspells are great. I'm with the oddly spiced olive man on this one

I actually run "Tangled Florahedron" in my 5 color Niv-Mizzet reborn deck, which was built on a somewhat restricted budget. It does work surprisingly well! It's not the single most optimized card, but it does put in a lot of work.

im on team Richard and Seth in regards to Florahedron. I feel like Tomer has some kind of emotional or mental block and will always refuse to admit any MDFCs are good.

Ironically this is like the one thing toner and I agree on. I look at mdfc cards as spells with lands attached to them not like seth who looks at them the other way around. I want a spell that has good cmc for its effect and then having it be a land is the upside or possibly an option for when you are mana screwed. Not once have I looked at an mdfc as a land first. I already have enough lands I'll replace a spell that has a similar effect and now I get an extra land just in case. That's literally how they were designed. Also as a side note most people I know dont play 38 lands in thier commander deck like these guys do. To me it's a waste of slots and then they want to count them as lands which is odd becuase they are already running extra lands

The two Mana Mana dork is also an elemental and plays well in certain decks

MDFCs are great in mono and some two-colour (Commander) decks. I always restrict the number of tapped lands I put into decks, and these would be competing for those slots. And those slots already have cards like cycle lands, bounce lands, Boseiju, Colonnade, etc. fighting for a spot. I can definitely respect the line of thinking of them just as spells with a little upside, though. But they're still competing with much better cards for those slots. EDIT: I am super curious what cards Richard and Seth would cut for the Florahedron. There's a HUGE difference between land ramp and mana dorks.

Florahedron is good. If your commander is 4cmc this is extra assurance that you get to cast it ahead of curve. At worst a tap land you can cast on a turn you're already going to ramp on. This card isn't bad by any stretch. I think at worst a B if you're commander isn't in a curve where 2cmc ramp matters

This is one of my favorite episodes. Rewatching it because of the break.

There's a few of these MDFCs that are really obviously archetype/mechanical support for ZNR Limited - Akoum Warrior, Umara Wizard, Blackbloom Rogue, Skyclave Cleric: they're all here to support the Party mechanic of the set, and a bit of the color pair's effects (Blue/Black had a Rogues & Mill theme, making Blackbloom a decent enabler). The Mythics are all pretty interesting, and I definitely love the glasspool mimic, malakir rebirth, and the whole mythic cycle.

Agadeem's Awakening: B Hagra Mauling: B Malakir Rebirth: C Blackbloom Rogue: D Pelakka Predation: D Zoff Consumption: F Sea Gate Restoration: A Glasspool Mimic: A Jwari Disruption: D Beyeen Veil: D Silundi Vision: C Umara Wizard: D Shatterskull Smashing: A Valakut Awakening: S Song-mad Treachery: D Spikefield Hazard: D Kazuul's Fury: B Akuum Warrior: D Turntimber symbiosis: A Kazandu Mammoth: C Vastwood Fortification: D Tangled Florahedron: C Balaged Recovery: S Khalni Ambush: B Emeria's Call: B Makindi Stampede: B Skyclave Cleric: D Kabira Takedown: B Sejiri Shelter: B Ondu Inversion: A My top 3 being 3: Ondu Inversion 2: Bala Ged Recovery 1: Valakut Awakening

I liked spikedield hazard, everyone is blinded that the fact that only deals 1 DMG that they forget that the sweet part of the card is that the target gets exiled, that way, you can yeet out of the game some creatures that otherwise will be coming back and back again

I find it funny that Seth doesn’t like the Onslaught cycling lands but loved these MDFC lands so much.

Video title - MDFC Land Tier list Tomer - I don't look at it them like lands 🙄😂

The chorus of guys not understanding why you wouldnt play bala ged recovery in every deck was so funny lol.

I think Seth likes putting so many cards in S tier just because it's the letter his name starts with

I have 3 ranks: A- Card Spot: Can replace non-land card with acceptable downsides. These are the very best. (Hagra Mauling, Agadeem's Awakening, Sea Gate Restoration, Glass Pool Mimic, Valakut Awakening, Bala Ged Recovery) B- Land Spot: The spell is useful but a considerable downside thus it would not replace the spell it self but a land or the spell is not inherently strong enough thus played as a land with an upside. These are Mid Tier. (Ondu Inversion, Malakir Rebirth, Beyeen Veil, Shatterskull Smashing, Silundi Vision, Song Mad Treachery, Kazul's Fury, Turntimber Symbiosis, Vastwood Fortification, Khalni Ambush, Emeria's Call, Makindi Stampede, Kabira Takedown, Sejiri Shelter) C- No Spot: The spell is essentially useless and would play them as tap land 99.9% of the times. (Tangled Florahedron, Black Bloom Rogue, Pelakka Predation, Zof Consumption, Jwari Disruption, Umara Wizard, Spikefield Hazard, Kazandu Mammoth, Skyclave Cleric)

It seems like the fundamental difference in evaluation of MDFCs comes from whether you start with the question: "Is this an efficient spell?" versus "Is this spell critical when I need it?" Tomer starts with the former, the other three start with the latter. The discussion of Makir Rebirth and Ondu Inversion demonstrate this nicely. IMO, the latter is clearly correct. The entire point of MDFCs is that they take up a land slot (or at least most of a land slot) yet will occasionally provide you with a critical, game-changing effect when you need it.

Tomer, in the case that ondu inversion is in your hand and can't be cast, it would be a dud land draw either way. Actually, it would help you get to the higher mana cost cards.

Zof consumption to the moooon!!!! Should be upgraded now with the stats lol. Thanks for all the hard work and content u guys do

I wholly agree with tomer for once on malakir rebirth cards absurd just getting to essentially free roll a protection spell that’s also only one mana is amazing.

Crim in that Kings jersey 👀👏🏻

Quick question about valakut awakening. I could be wrong but dont you declare how many cards you "cycle" as it resolves? Couldnt you just say 0 if someone flashes in hullbreacher? But if I'm wrong please correct me😊.

Thanks guys :D, i think mdfs are very reliant on the powerlevel of your decks. If you play guildgates, you might as well rank all of them S tear

Tomer is so wrong about Floralhedron, Inversion, and Recovery. They take land slots to provide effects that are sometimes hard to have another slot for. They are as good if not better than Awakening in a lot of ways, not efficiency of effect, but in giving an additional slot for their effects.

I think that I may have slept on Emeria's Call. Indestructible until your NEXT turn? That allows you to alpha strike and pass without worrying about a wrath! That's decent.