I'd forgotten Oz would be out of jail now. I have no time for anything he says - and as a proponent of the use of PTFE he even got that wrong. Don't feed the algorithm.

I'm just buying a chain pre waxed and top up with drip lube. Then if/when I like it I'll grab a pot and wax . So you can get into it when you replace your next chain without going all out.

I've genuinely never seen an actual candle in America made out of pure paraffin. They're almost always scented, made from soy or palm oil wax, or otherwise not suitable for chain lubrication. I imagine Australia is pretty similar. Japan just has a superior candle culture lol.

I waxed my first chain yesterday. My component s are shimano 105 10 speed. So in the expected lifespan of a single chain expensive commercial chain wax would probably end up costing more than replacing chain, casette and chainring. So I melted a locally produced quality candle. Hopefully I will not regret using candlevax instead of the muc off my otherwise well respected bike shop sold me 🤞

@@AllanHundeboll If the wax was applied well to the chain, then you are good to go. I'm up to about 1500 km on my chain with candle wax. At 1000 km I measured it against a new chain: no measurable wear. They were identical length. I ride in mostly good weather, but I did a few hours in the rain. The roads are very clean here, though. At 1500 km, I can still detect no wear with the chain checker, but I haven't checked it with a ruler yet. ZFC's data indicates 5% wear over uncontaminated blocks and I'm getting less than that, but I'm rewaxing approximately every 200 km so far (it's just a convenient timing for me). But even 5% wear would mean changing after 20,000 km at 0.5 % length increase (which is still less than you would typically go for a 10 speed chain). And with 10 speed shimano chains going for about $25 here, I think paraffin makes the most sense.

Thanks T-Omi - yes main reason for PDF on most docs is to avoid people easily editing and re-publishing (it can be done maliciously and looking like ZFC published something not nice / incorrect). I know there are converters and editors etc but it still has stopped some lower lever fudging of zfc work. Will try to improve some things but mostly the docs are created on word and then pdf converter which can change things around a bit sometimes - alas my time resources for such things are sadly very limited, as it stands many docs are in urgent need of an update, as are some product pages / website etc, some better organisation of information overall and more....just ...... yeah..... i have to somehow get to that. Many products have not been single application longevity tested so that is why they do not appear there. Mostly only the better testing products are put through the S.A.L testing to get the full performance picture for that product. Products that tested poorly in the main test i do not waste the resources to test them in S.A.L - the products single application longevity is basically irrelevant as one shouldnt be using that product. Some good products are not on there that should be on there (silca ss drip, smoove etc) - they were, but the S.A.L test protocol was greatly improved a few years back, so all previous test data for S.A.L scrapped and its been a slow re build since as testing has been extremely busy / booked. I will be trying to get those tests re done this year.... hopefully.

Sodium acetate or sodium citrate would likely be the best candidates for corrosion inhibitors.

I think you are correct. Those small packets that convert the oil to a solid are not perlite. This was rather badly researched.

Yes i wouldnt mind if he recommended such high ratio's if these ratio's were based on something. But as best as i can tell, he is basing them on "Well that should certainly do it!!" recovering a particular additive. And i am just not sure on being in a space where one is recommending something to people based on no objective testing, just gut feel on what should for sure have that base covered - but that is a) very wasteful, and b) may not always work like that. Ie if a recipe says at 2 eggs and 500ml of milk, and you go well, if thats good, how about 10 eggs and 5 liters of milk! It may not produce the final product he is expecting.

@@zerofrictioncycling992 The recipe will still work with 10 eggs and 5 liters of milk however. Oz Cycle's reasoning would be closer to: "If a bit of sugar tastes good, then a lot of sugar must be amazing!" Substitute this with PTFE powder and you've got Oz Cycle's reasoning at times.

If it is Stearic acid, that will mix with the wax as well as the grease. Maybe this is Oz Cycle's logic , i.e. that the grease will soften the wax and the Stearic will harden it back up again ? It's used in candle making to do that. Melts at 69 deg C so in the correct temperature range. It might affect wax adhesion to chain metal because in candle making it acts as a mould release agent.

@@dawn_rider Yes. That's the logic behind it.

So much time? He has been covered a bit in two recent vids to discuss merits / concerns of DIY Strip chip, so there was initial vid, and then some follow up information / clarification the following week. So i think your comment above is a little over dramatic. ZFC covers information in the waxing space a lot, so if something relevant comes into that sphere, i will cover thoughts on that information, any questions, concerns, clarifications etc. As i said in the first video, Oz is most definitely not any threat at all to ZFC, overall on net he is likely a good gateway in. To some degree DIY waxers - which may i say is a VERY, VERY small sub segment of immersive waxing, which again is just one segment of the overall lubricant market - and we sell ALL top products found from independent testing - so all the best wet lubricants, wax drips, and immersive waxers. Out of all of that, DIY waxing is tiny. Miniscule even. But for those who are interested, it is great to have dedicated channels that focus on that. From there, some % of DIY waxers switch to a commercial product to save faff, more guaranteed result. Do i have to re type concerns you have just listened to or did you miss them all? ie - what are the ratio's based on? recommending a path before even Oz has tested the outcome longer term re wear rates? What are the products made of depending on what one buys and where? The cost savings for DIY vs commercial etc etc. Yes i enjoy when get to have positive relationships with other channels / media. That would have been preferable in this case too. And who knows what may happen in the future. But there have been other issues previously that have hindered such, such as his very poor test of his blend vs mspeedwax (covered in a document on zfc website if you care to spend the time to read), his having a go at ZFC with one of the worlds worst people on the internet in cycling (Durianrider) etc etc. Despite such things, i think my coverage on last two vids re simply the DIY strip chip issue has been rather objective no? Can you raise anything specific that you think was not on, unfairly critical etc on any actual point? or are you just upset that hey its someone else doing stuff in waxing shouldnt we automatically be singing hand in hand around the same campfire and ignore any possible concerns?

​@@zerofrictioncycling992 I totally agree in most points. I just want to say that we're talking about different philosophies of two different youtubers. I'm sure jumbo visma ore UAE will never care about his videos, but maybe they will about your research and content. So your work is amazing and important! I started waxing about 5 years ago as a midage amateur and I learned a lot from your videos. But Besides commercial chainwax products I also tried his methods. And they work as well. I used a chain for 13k km and still running, it's super clean and feels perfectly smooth. So yes, for me as an amateur it works great but probably not for Jonas Vingegaard, since you proved that there are better products with better results that save you the extra watts. So for the fun of experimenting and cost savings I like his content and run his methods on a daily basis. But for competitive training or special rides with friends I stick to your research and buy the really fast stuff. You represent a very professional and advanced view on this topic while he is showing options for beginners or non professionals. Two different philosophies....

Canola oil was first used as a heavy machine gearbox oil think about that next time you get your fish and chips!!

Hydrogenation is not what Silca Strip chips do as they say so in their ' chain-waxing-system-and-stripchip-faq ' . The public would be horrified if they knew half the stuff that goes into everyday products. I feel sorry for the workers in the factories as it's likely they are exposed unintentionally to some medicating ingredients !

i can imagine that even too much of that stuff is not an issue if you just use it with cheap paraffin 1 or 2 times, in oder to clean the chain and later switch to fresh high quality wax

@@user-sx6dr1cw8y Yes, when you aren't worried about the quantities due to cost, as you aren't making it to scale like a commercial company. Would be more wasteful though if you are throwing out your PTFE contaminated wax for fresh stuff quicker than you normally would be.

Liquid paraffin do you mean petroleum jelly

@@tmayberry7559 Sorry. Paraffin Oil. Used in lamps.

@@tmayberry7559 Nah, like lamp oil. It's paraffin that's liquid at room temperature. Popular lubricant with brass musicians. It does evaporate pretty quickly though.

+1

No way. They wouldn't add sand to their lubricants, would they :)

I am waiting for the next DIY hack that advises perhaps iron filings or industrial diamond dust additive :). He could come out with a different type of "strip chip" - one that strips the life from your chain!

Ha!! yes perlite is for sure used a lot as above, and it does seem highly likely this is going to be the main ingredient in most such products i think from what has a) been emailed to me by other very clever peeps already and b) - it proved quite tricky but a bit of internet hunting. For sure the odds are well north of zero that one may be adding some pretty abrasive stuff to their wax if they just buy whatever such product like this that is available to them in their country. I think that this is something that Oz should have done a lot of testing on to check potential HIGH wear rate increase before just pumping out a vid recommending this as a DIY hack for silca strip chip. More to be known over time...

i dont know of anyone who has properly tested beeswax, but paraffin is a brilliant lubricant for chains. Anecdotal over time i believe beeswax is slow and gunky / easily dirty. I am not sure where the evidence is that beeswax is a good option, but you can always try :)

Thanks Tex! For road / indoor and a good wax lube, you wont really have to worry about what you might be wiping in as there is very little contamination for wax lubes + road. If you were doing gravel, then for sure wiping with microfiber cloth sprayed with isopropyl alcohol to lift off surface dust vs risk wiping in - that is good general tip for offroad riders. Synergetic and Rex BD are quite similar re both really are on the much less wet side of things as really so little of them is needed to provide great lubrication for a long stretch. Unless over applied they are typically much less wet than most wet lubricants. Hope that helps!

Afaik it's close to white spirit. I can dissolve wax in white spirit. The problem is the smell, so I made peace with it and I'm just doing wax baths. Also, I use white spirit to strip the factory grease, so I don't like that my wax carrier would be the thing I use to strip the chain. Sounds too aggressive .

I think really Oz should be the one providing such. I dont really have the resources to test hardly any DIY, as honestly its pretty endless number of combinations and every test takes a lot of time and resources that need to go to much higher value tests. Ie - why has he changed to shellite. Where is the data that sits behind the change etc etc. If he can provide you with tangible, objective information that sits behind his recommendations - then thats great. If its all anecdotal fluff, then is it change for change sake for more videos and clicks and looking / sounding knowledgeable. I could start making videos saying hey do this that or the other and speak with confidence and people could follow based on that - but if what i am saying is based on more or less whatever i am pulling out of my butt - that is different. From the ratio and blend changes over the years, and really what is there that sits behind this? where is the testing? where is the data? what decided the original recommendation? what instituted the change in recommendation? why is it so different to commercial waxes that have had a lot of R&D and testing? I fear more questions than answers, and a lot of waste and extra toxicity.

The Diggers Australia SDS for Shellite states it may cause genetic defects, cancer and is suspected of damaging fertility ! Oz used to recommend adding paraffin oil and xylene to the base wax to create the drip lubricant. He probably recommends shellite to reduce the drying time and thin the mixture. His previously suggested isopropanol was a lot safer but does not dissolve wax as well. An 'amusing' example of an Oz concoction is kzfaq.info/get/bejne/epdidal6vcCnlac.html Commercial wax drip lubes like Silca super secret use microscopic blobs of solid wax in a water carrier which likely with the help of a bit of surfactant, overcomes the high viscosity issue . You also get a higher proportion of wax in your lube.

@@dawn_rider yes indeed! i really think Oz should be doing more to substantiate his DIY blends, what sits behind the blends/ ratio's and when it changes, which it does - why. I am surprised more of his followers are not requesting this...

​@zerofrictioncycling992 ZFC and OZ targets quite different viewer segments. Typical OZ viewer probably just want a fast and easy hack that will allow him/her to move on. And they probably think even just watching the well documented but lenghty videos you produce to much effort. But please don't change. KZfaq has far to many fast life hack videos. So your scientific approach is much appreciated!

I wouldnt stress too much - if you are looking to switch between waxes etc - boiling water is just a bulk clean vs perfect clean - very little will be left behind, and not enough to worry re contaminating a different wax. Ie if you just rode that wax treatment until chain sounded dry - there would be only circa 1gram of wax left on chain. Then boiling water rinse will melt more off - you will talking a fraction of gram of previous wax and ptfe. So nothing to be concerned about. However, if you wanted a perfect clean of a wax chain, ceramic speed DT clean is easiest way as that works on wax as well. Remove chain, put in an old bidon of DT clean to soak for 10 mins, shake for about 2 mins, remove chain then rinse DT clean off with boiling water, dry, yeehaa.

Tungsten Disulfide isn't that expensive. It's definitely cheaper than silver unless you want extremely small particle sizes :)

Maybe you are right and PTFA isn't that dangerous/harmful. But is it worth the potential risk? My cost vs benefit calc: Value of planeth earth = indefinitely. Quality of life improved by chain vax with PTFE = Low. So NO PTFE isn't worth any potential hazard. But of course you might Value such things differently...

I can't comment on jockey wheels, but i have experience regarding contaminated chain. ZFC does mention this in one of his DOCs about chain prep, you are way better off starting with an unused chain. Even after one ride on factory grease, it will take more solvent baths to strip. I stripped a friends SRAM Rival chain the other day that had only one 30 mile ride on it and I used around 50% more solvent to get it clean vs. unused chain.

@@sarahdaye9382 sorry I mean if I start with a new chain, my drivechain is contaminated from the previous oiled chain.

@@neil_down_south Do a regular cleaning session on your chainrings and cassette. That sufficed for me. I did remove both from the bike, though.

Hi neil not yet - i can certainly add to the list - there are possibly a couple of ins and outs i may be able to add over what other channels will have done cleaning DT - but overall cleaning DT for waxing is relatively easy from info point of view. Main things to consider first is the chain - ie if it is a used chain, balance if it is worth putting literally liters of solvent through it to properly clean for waxing based on how worn, and what value. If its a half worn ultegra or 105 11spd chain, its not really worth it. If it is a not that worn sram red axs flat top chain, or xx1, or t-type - for sure its worth it etc. The DT itself - this is highly variable. Some people using a decent wet lube and decent maintenance - its a 10 min job with a cloth to clean up ready for a lovely wax chain. Some not great lubricants with poor maintenance - it could be an hour with a lot of solvent and very stiff brushes and cloths (or replacing some parts like cassette). There are some hints and tips etc i can cover on vid but mostly - one simply needs to get drivetrain clean on way or the other, but on the plus side once thats done and now waxing, cleaning days are pretty much over. Pulleys - most pulleys will be roller bearings, there are not that many sleeve bearing / bushing out there (some cheaper ones, and some campy ones). It is easily found by just popping one wheel out and weather shield off. generally no unless way over oiled, then oil from pulleys should not contaminate chain. Personally i prefer using Time trial grease in my pulleys for longer service life (especially in offroad bikes) and better weather protection in case get caught in the rain, however - i typically run fast pulleys, and fast bearings typically have a no contact seal and so grease is a better protection barrier behind that seal vs oil which then doings doing a little and often for such bearings. If you have something like shimano or ultegra pulleys, they are well sealed and you just dont have to worry about them just replace them ever approx 20,000km etc.

@@neil_down_south I clean the cassette and chainring first.

What sort of conditions do you mostly ride in ( dry , wet , dusty and wet etc ) and at what sort of temperature range ? That will probably help Adam ? I hope you let that 'Oz lube' carrier solvent evaporate outdoors , or at least not in your house. There are far worse solvents like Benzene ( no safe exposure limit ) but repeated regular long term exposure in confined spaces would not be good. Commercial lubricants are regulated in most places so likely safer and a lot of them use water as the carrier. Since your DIY mix has no friction modifiers like WS2 , any commercial wax drip lube is probably better !

@@dawn_rider thanks for all the tips. Yeah, I let the bike dry in a balcony of my house, and when I prepare ligroin + wax I use the most amount of both I can so I don't have to repeat the process after quite a while, the ligroin easily gets into my nostrils/mouth and dry it out. As for the conditions I ride in, I live in a very rainy region (around 3000mm of rain a year avg.), and also mountainous, with roads that are a mixed bag, but I only ride when it doesn't rain, or like 95% of the time. The water can get into several components of the bike and that's why I prefer to ride in days without rain.

Have you looked at the zerofrictioncycling lubetesting table ( the green text highlights the wax drip lubes) ? This list is what he's tested and they may not all be available in your country or too expensive ? The ' Effetto mariposa flowerpower' wax is the best wax drip lube for all conditions but you will have problems removing contamination using boiling water. It uses a wax derived from sunflowers and not petroleum. Also , I do not know the correct cleaning chemicals to use ( maybe ligroin ??! ) 😞. The reason I picked this one is because it sounds like you experience brief but heavy rain , even though you try to go out in dry weather ! Once the dirt is in the chain it tends to stay there , no matter what lube you use but at least the flowerpower has some resistance to this and will not get washed off easily. Adam may say something different ?

Chain needs to be cleaned for traditional waxing. Strip chip turns factory grease into wax like substance (structure on molecular level)

Yep it will be interesting. I am very curious what will happen with the wax overall as many of the cheap paraffins also have a higher oil content, so there could be some fun things going on there. From some further chats it could be that if the product is stearic acid based, the volcanic rock dust concerns wont be a concern - but alas many such products do not state and ingredient - so if its perlite or stearic acid based will be unknown. This i think should be stipulated in his vid to ensure not perlite based.

AliExpress

I would probably go the cc-4 as that has a pretty decent adjustment for roller sizes, but that also only goes to 0.75 - however honestly that is a good thing. just because in theory / old days info you can go to 1%, that will still likely be causing wear to cog / ring. The thicker teeth are more wear resistant, but why put that to the test vs replacing chain before it starts to try to eat through the teeth. So having more leeway to go longer and hopefully still get away with it doesnt = a recommended path. Ie you can change the oil in your engine every 50,000km - but it will not be great for the longer term performance and life of your engine. You can run tires until the threads are showing through, but that is not optimal for grip / puncture resistance. Your chain is your most consumable part on drivetrain (well, it should be). A good lubricant choice and you will get a good time to 0.5%, then replace. And then you can keep doing this without wearing your cog and ring. Also wearing through the metal of your teeth is not as low friction running as not wearing through steel teeth :). Note also the cc-2 typically way over reads wear by about 0.25 (not always though....).

Belt drive, unfortunately. Waxing is pita for commuting, like for long distance rides (eg. 250km+). Imho, even with a fresh waxed chain you can't be 110% sure that it will not squeak on the last half an hour, especially if it gets wet. But it's great for shorter rides and races, like in triathlon.

Every ride? That is not what mspeedwax suggests at all unless every ride is wet. If dry you will get an easy 300km+ per treatment. So most will just re wax one weekends or every second week depending on length of commute. Even then, many will also use a hybrid approach and top up as needed with an IM wax compatible drip lubricant, so re waxing is very infrequent, and still drivetrain cleanliness is awesome and wear rates very low. If frequently wet it is a balance. Ie if it is wet almost every day then it is not generally practical to re wax everyday - so again most will just use combo approach - when home spend 30 secs to wipe chain and apply IM compatible wax drip to be ready for next day, then re wax on weekend to reset contamination and be back to awesome. There is no other way via just drip lubricant path to keep chain as clean and low wear as the above that is faster or easier. If just drip lubricant only to maintain low contamination and wear this means solvent flush cleans etc. watch the waxed life like a boss video to see how easy it really is.

Hot wax 2 or 3 chains in a single flow. And top up with a high quality vax drip on, like cs all conditions between chain changes. Should minimize work and ensure minimal wear.

Yes for sure, i am just generally against this method vs quality drop in checker, as a - its more time and faff, which for many means it is done infrequently, and they easily get caught out. The other is chains never wear equally - so one section might be 0.5%, another might be 0.6 or 0.65%, and that more worn section will be doing disproportionate damage. So by the time a full length of chain is 0.5% overall, there will for sure be sections past that. So if doing full length, then use 0.4% max as your replacement guide to guard against the fact some sections of chain will be more worn and some less.

Thanks for the information. I did not consider that the chain may wear unevenly. The .4% wear you suggest might be a better guide in this method! It would be a bit of messing around but I figure it would not be hard to setup do if you were frequently waxing the chain off the bike anyway. Much appreciated.

Yeah i need to do more googling / chatting with some smart peeps - it looks like if its stearic acid - it wont be volcanic rock - so the one shown by oz might be not scary (but what actually happens will need to be tested indeed) - but the problem is also that as so many such products do not state what is in them - it is a risky thing for him to recommend without some clear caveats - ie ensure it does not contain perlite / aka volcanic rock dust! - must be stearic acid based etc - but yeah - there is also a high oil content in the cheaper paraffin waxes, like candles, so whats happening with that, is there gel in the wax now.... its all very interesting and i think a bit light on detail re the performance of this wax post doing this - he has sent me a message saying will know more about that in about 5 months when they have enough kms on it - so i dunno, may do the recommendation then if it works as hoped? Re the states yeah just a fun trip with the lil guy - he is at a good age for such things now at 9 (almost 10) - i think when 5ish y.o they still forget a lot and probs by teenager i hear that parents can go out of fashion for a time hahahahaha. So this one will be disney world, universal studio's, kennedy space centre - then dashing up to DC for the smithsonians, then to vegas for the sphere, hoover dam tour and grand canyon multi day tour. I will try to keep him out of gambling and strip joints :)

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Good for your family. That sounds like a trip to remember!

Hey Nick! Are the white industries chain rings Shimano 12s compatible? Shimano 12s chains have a special extended inner link plate, and the teeth must be profiled for that chain or for sure some issues could come up, most especially if it is a narrow wide chain ring. Just had a look at the product info, and from website says; Features MR30 series TSR chainrings fit White Industries M/A/R/G 30mm spindle cranks only Works with SRAM 10/11/12 speed and 12 speed flat-top chains Works with Shimano 10/11 speed chains Shimano 12 speed chains must use a SRAM Eagle 12-speed PowerLock connector Works with singlespeed 3/32 chains to be honest.... i think the chainring may be where the issue lies, it is not usual for a chainring to be compatible with shimano 12s and eagle as they really need different tooth profiles. And then they have thrown 3/32 chain standard in there as well. Generally white industries make beautiful great stuff, but this product has me a little worried re compatibility for shimano 12s chain, its just trying to cover too many different standards at once - normal 12spd 11/128, flat top which has oversize rollers, shimano with extended inner link plates, and the much wider 3.32 standard. Its like having a phillips head flat head screwdriver thats also a 10mm socket. Its generally better to have a flat head thats a great flat head, and a phillips head thats a great phillips head etc. If i was me if i was running sram flat top - i would have a flat top chain ring, shimano 12s, shimano 12s chain ring, normal 12sdp eagle - 12spd narrow wide chain ring, and 3/32 - for sure a 3.32 chain ring. The cassette, mech and chain are all in same system and shimano 12s system is very smooth, so its all pointing to the trying to be jack of all standards chain ring at the moment. If it is difficult to swap chainrings to test - see if you can get a just cheap other non 12spd chain, like a GX eagle (not a flat top chain - this is a normal 11/128 standard 12spd chain). This will run perfectly on shimano cassette and pulleys even thought it doesnt have shimano extended inner link plates - it just wont have as good a shifting performance without those plates, but there is nothing there to cause roughness / rubbing etc on places we dont want it. If that chain runs smooth - then likely it is the absence of the extended inner link plates rubbing on the teeth of the trying to be jack of all trades chain ring. Otherwise if you lbs has a shimano 12s specific chainring for your crank - i would try that. So overall my money is for sure on the chain ring being the most likely cause, because if the full system is shimano 12s - then i think all would be smooth as silk. I have run wolf tooth shimano 12s specific rings with shimano 12s chain - silky smooth. I would not personally run a chain ring trying to bridge across 4 different standards of chain..... So if it turns out it is the chain ring thats the issue, i would be asking white industries for your you money back, and suggest they perhaps make chainrings compatible with one standard...... Sending this too you from a computer that is just a computer and not also trying to be a microwave, coffee machine and back massager :)

@@zerofrictioncycling992 wow, thanks for the detailed and thoughtful reply! I figured/feared you might say that. The bike had the derailleur warrantied yesterday as the tech thought the pivots were a tad loose, it’s no better with the new derailleur and in total the bike has less than 100km since being built! One thing I forgot to mention is that the clicking and rough feeling through the pedals/cranks is only in the middle of the cassette, not all the gears.. just the middle 3-4. It’s very bizarre, I think you are probably right though that the whites chainring is trying to be to many things at once. The unfortunate part is that the whites cranks only mesh with whites chainrings, it’s all proprietary. I think I’m going to try to put some mileage on it and see if it smooths out. If not, probably going to have to buy Shimano cranks and chainring :(

@@nickthompson9851 ah that is interesting if its the middle cogs, and normally the extended innner link plates start to cause issues with non compatible stuff more so on chain line angles where those plates will rub more on the side of teeth. Is it a new cassette and chain? I know you said its newly built, but sometimes peeps build a new build with parts from previous stuff! :)

@@zerofrictioncycling992 yes, all brand new!

@@nickthompson9851 ah yeah then that is all pretty odd indeed! Alas i would try to find a good local LBS since trying a different chain ring is not easy, and it is in theory shimano compatible all the way (with the question mark on the chain ring). but.... really it is on chain line angles that any incompatibility will typically make itself known as those extended inner link plates rub on side of the teeth - it would be extremely unusual for it to be not good in straighter chain line cogs and fine on high chain line angles if that was the issue. So something else might be up - it could be simply a gear tune where it is out in that part of the cassette - it could be something like hangar misalignment making it impossible to get a perfect tune etc - in which case a shop with a proper hanger alignment tool for 12spd would be needed to check and adjust etc

That would be a silca secret! they worked on that for a couple years with some schmick other peeps.

not yet but that is pretty groovy. FL have for a long time not been in the good books for me, my view has been that really they are just pumping out Meh lubricant from whatever industry supplier, rebranded and bottled as a chain lubricant, with zero to back marketing claims, and no development for decades just living off legacy brand name. I would love to see that change. Imagine if they bring an actual great product or two to market. Imagine if the thousands of bike stores that stock and recommend FL sell products that actually protect against wear! holy batman what times we may soon be living in :). So for sure second half of this year post USA trip i will be trying to get hold of and queue up that test.

He's using the plus 2. (Has instructions laser etched into the tool, the plus only has the Pedro's branding)

ah yes i will expand the names better on some - sorry, rushing too much!

​@xzcion thanks, that's the one I use along with a Cyclo one that is easier to show/demonstrate customer just how badly worn their chains are when it bottoms out at the 1% measure (typically after using crap Muc-off lube).

Hopefully optimistic. I cant sign off on it until i test it, but Silca have already delivered a lot of great products in the lubricant space - so i am hoping this will be as marketed. Mostly it is just another great option to make it easier for people to go immersive waxing, and the more easy options there are, the less barrier there is for people to switch. The more that switch and enjoy waxed life, the more enjoy super clean and super long lasting chains and drivetrains. Not having lovely drivetrains meet an early death by abrasion is the driving force for ZFC, so products that help in that regard i am excited and hopeful to see. So if you can imagine my reaction to product launches like for wend rub on wax, and then put me at the opposite spectrum to that, thats about where i am :)

yes thankyou - it will take a bit more research and i think correct - some may not contain perlite, but whatever Z acid or stearic acid is and whatever that does - but i ran out of google time. However, MANY such products do not even state an ingredient, and some such products for sure do use perlite - so results of what may go on could really vary from one person to another.

Thanks yeah it was a difficult bouncing ball to follow for many such products. At the moment i am not sure what may contain what, but i am pretty sure some may contain something not very low friction. I dont know enough about stearic acid yet - does it convert oil/ grease? by itself or does it need another agent? what is that agent? What does one do re the many of the products that literally do not state at all what they contain? heaps of them i looked up there is zero ingredient listed - what are they? Such questions should potentially be covered a little more by the person recommending that path....

@@zerofrictioncycling992 What's in strip chip then ?? seems like all Product composition is a SECRET its all a secret it seems I do use the recommended ones myself just food for thought

Ok you have missed quite a few points there somehow / managed to dial up some rather incorrect takeaways. 1) we have long advised to use food grade paraffin if DIY, because too many cheap paraffin options can end up very dirty and gunky, which is a bad experience for the user, and is part of what has given immersive waxing a bad reputation in key places - like bike store mechanics. It is not much to spend a little bit more on a much less gunky base 2) i used candle wax in the test as that has been the most requested for me to do as a DIY baseline vs commercial waxes. It turns out the one i purchased was much better and cleaner than i expected - which is all covered in the detail review, and completely goes against any concerns you have re protecting any big name brands - they did wish the gap was much larger, and outcome much dirtier. I am curious as to why you seem to be all out of sorts on me testing candle wax vs food grade paraffin as recommended. The recommendation to in general use food grade paraffin is a logical one, based on what is used by the top commercial wax brands - for good reason. How are you drawing a conspiracy out of something so basic and logical. You cannot speak for the majority of DIY wax users at all, you cannot claim MOST USE FOODGRAD PARAFFIN etc - the gunky messes rocking up to bike stores all over the world will contest your claim there which is based on what exactly? just you and your friends? Pls have more than that if you are going to take the time to hit me with conspiracy concerns. 3) back when i had a little time spot avail i offered to test oz DIY blend if he sent me some. He did not. Now as i have covered, i just dont have time resources to spend on DIY. Pls see vid re my current to do list. ZFC is unique in this space and very very booked and busy. 4) What scepticism around my testing and results? The only sceptics ever so far are from whackadoodles, based on literally either zero, or made up nonsense. The full test brief is open. The test is demonstrated. We have the largest open league table free for all. And we are booked solid all the time by mfg - who would book in with ZFC and pay thousands for testing if they thought the results are favouring anyone. We test for so many major mfg - is it not rather obvious that mfg who we have been testing for for years, and whom over time have attained excellent results, are then going to reference those results with zfc? if any company anywhere gets great results in the leading independent testing in their market - they use that for marketing. I am sorry but you are really sounding more like Q-Anon here. How on earth should zfc conduct things differently? 5) I dont recommend anyone fork over money to companies selling snake oil either. That is a big reason ZFC started and continues. There are plenty of lubricants and companies on the list that are in my view fleecing cyclists of their hard earned cash to then eat through their drivetrain. Isnt it handy there is now an open and free league table of lubricant performance in the harshest most exhaustive test, on an actual bicycle drivetrain and involving contamination (wet and dry), highlighting the companies bringing great products to market not just great marketing, and hold to account companies and products that are the opposite of that. if we want the good companies to continue to exist vs the bad companies - they are the ones that those who dont want to make their own stuff should support. how is that a bad thing. I also dont think you have any idea how much it costs to bring a product to market, global distribution, margin levels from mfg, to importers, to wholesalers, to retailers - all of whom need to make margin on the product sold to survive. The mfg behind the best lubricants found to date on the market are not buying their own islands either, most of them are in fact very small mfg, and i hope they survive. 6) Bicycle rolling resistance is great. And it is great if they can make money off that model, that is great. They also depend a lot of pro members i think too, so some people support by paying for the data. Their test is VASTLY shorter than zfc tests, which often take 1 to 2 months each, and with a lot of work in between each test, and post each test. So the business model of simply selling the best lubricants found from testing - how on earth do you arrive at conflict of interest from that? Without the retail side, we would not be able to exist. Even paid private tests, whilst expensive, it doesnt come close to make it viable, i would be lucky to make $5 an hour. There is no guise of philanthropy or any such crap. The business model, the testing, everything has been open from the beginning. It is simply a win win. Mfg's have an independent test facility. Cyclists have open test data against and open test protocol, and can see from that testing what lubricant best suits them and their cycling, and ZFC gets to exist from the revenue of selling the best products found from the testing. If you want to draw up conspiracies - well, thats on you. How can there be a conflict of interest when all of this has been open since day dot? Honestly - the type that want to see conspiracies see them everywhere. Have you not seen what often happens with other testing in this space? A mfg conducts testing with facility X. Their is no open data table, each client has to build their own. So they pay for 10 tests, their product and 9 competitors. 4 competitors test better than they do. So they go to market being number one vs 5 key competitors tested. With zfc - a mfg conducts one test, and they slot in onto the league table that is already there, and open and published. And if its a great product, we may look to stock it as it will be a great product to the cyclists who purchase it, and we are helping support a mfg that has brought a great product to market, not a shite product with powerful and misleading marketing. Thats what you take such exception too? And also a lot (like a lot) of our testing is for products in development, so the mfg is paying for testing of multiple bases and formulas so that they are confident of the product they are bringing to market before they go into production, which again is a win win for all - for the mfg, and for the cyclist buying it. I hope the above helps. A whackadoodle clings to their conspiracies to the death. A non whackadoodle can take in information and process new thoughts. Just finally on Oz - i have no problem with anyone promoting good DIY information - and maybe he is mostly doing that. But he himself has changed his recommended formula A LOT, and some ratio's of things have been pretty nuts (such as 50 frigging grams of ptfe per 500g) - never revealed ANYTHING to substantiate what sits behind his recommendations, or why there has been a change etc - or if its just pulled from a magic 8 ball. The top commercial products have a huge amount of control and field testing behind them, which costs a lot of time, effort and $$ to do. But the blends are based on actual information, and the consumer gets a great product vs your experience may vary. He has also conducted some very poor testing like his blend vs msw - where he was lucky not to be sued by msw, it was so flawed it is worrying that it was deliberately so, and i explain all that in the document on instructions tab titled "that oz cycle video" - if you care to learn more. So i do think at time he should be more responsible regarding the information he is pumping out - that it should be based on something. Ie take the DIY strip chip. He wont know for some time if there is a negative impact to typical wear etc - they are long term testing their first chains now. Should that be done first before going oh silca have brought out this, let me pump out a vid on hey just chuck these sachet's in to DIY it. Things like the sachets are to absorb a VERY large amount of oil, and the chain has like 5 grams of FG etc etc. Should he test this stuff a bit (a lot) more thoroughly before putting out a vid to 80 subscribers? in my view yes - but in your view you take exception to the place doing the worlds most exhaustive testing? interesting.

@@zerofrictioncycling992 I appreciate the response. I am not a conspiracy theorist, quite the opposite. A conspiracy requires a secret by definition. I am simply claiming, in my opinion, and I am not alone, that there is a conflict of interest at play here. Jason Smith of Friction Facts offered his original formula for free because he RECOGNIZED the very same conflict of interest that you are feigning knowledge of. **Read that twice, digest, and continue** We are "whackadoodles" if we question the methods, benefactors or credibility of your testing? Name calling is always a mature, sound rebuttal. Sigh. If I purchase a car from a salesperson who tells me it is the best car ever, that is on me. If however, the salesperson says that he conducts the "most exhaustive testing", he very well may, but his credibility, his opinions and his recommendations are a matter of TRUST. I use Consumer Reports, experience, common sense, and the unbiased opinions and testing of third parties with nothing to lose or gain to make that decision. I also make a judgement call based on the character of the person telling me the information. Speaking of character, one of my main points of contention, and one that you never really addressed, is your level of animosity towards Oz and his efforts. Dr Oz? Bringing up his mistakes? How is that relevant? Does any credible testing entity preface their data with that sort of behavior? Don't get me wrong, as I said, I think the actions of Oz and his personal mess is horrible, and the last thing I am doing is defending him. I just don't understand the high school level of behavior. It is as if he has negatively affected your wallet, efforts, those of your friends... or kicked/harmed YOUR dog. No one uses food grade paraffin or requested it and most asked for candle wax? In the states, you can buy a pound of Gulf Wax for $3.97. It is widely referenced on forums that discuss the DIY model. Why would my "secret cabal" of "whackadoodles" and "conspiracy theorists," ("people who don't drink the ZFC Kool Aid") insist on candles? Even so, why not test food grade paraffin if it is superior? You are too busy. Ok. Convenient. Posting KZfaq videos attacking others is exhaustive, I am sure. I don't know the circumstances of Oz failing to send you a testing sample. I can't imagine it would be because he didn't trust the character of those involved. That would be ironic coming from him, but given the name calling and conflict of interests, I can see his hesitation, but I can't speak for him. He has changed his formula. Some of his concoctions were certainly questionable, including adding Xylene. Changes in formula have been evident in a lot of these companies, including MSpeedwax and their admission that they changed from PTFE because of public perception. I suppose you would claim Jason Smith, if he released his pro bono recipe now, is an idiot because he advocated the use of a toaster oven combined with close use of solvents. He may even earn some nickname to also ruin his credibility. Nah, he now supplies the ZFC online store. "Manufacturers have an independent testing facility." I feel like I am having a conversation with a overly proud, overly sensitive wall with an unwarranted superiority complex. While I am happy to read, learn, take in new information and form changed opinions, I do so based on the facts at hand. If those opinions don't line up with yours, and that makes me a "whackadoodle", so be it. Let me break it down for you. -A testing entity with a conflict of interest. -Juvenile, even vindictive at times, behavior towards others. I do not care to search and read your long-winded summarizations and opinions of the drama you have helped sow. I will let you respond with more quips about your unbiased fantasy land and in the meantime, I will jump on my Silca Super Secret lubed bike, brought to you by Zero Friction Cycling, all rights reserved.

@@jasonf2252 Oh my goodness. Pls dont patronise with the whole read and digest etc. You need to take some moments yourself, as you just lack information on what you are talking about, and ending up in all sorts of wrong and weird places. For one, he released the formula after he sold the UFO business. For two - there was a possible conflict because he was then a player in the game. How to test independently for others, if you would need to ensure their test results were worse than your own product you are selling as the fastest. I do not have any product in the game. I simply sell the best products found from the independent testing, be they IM wax, or wax drip, or best wet lubricants. Hence there is no conflict. And again if there was a conflict, i wouldnt have any business from other mfg looking for testing - they would be the first to be concerned re any conflict of interest no? not cyclists who just have access to the league table and can choose to buy those products - FROM ANYWHERE!! They are not locked to buy them from ZFC, i dont have affiliate links, i dont get kickbacks - so honestly - i dont get how you can arrive at this place. It is a rather special place. So you can take your supposed sound rebuttal, and look and feel rather stupid, because you completely missed a basic and obvious difference between UFO, Friction facts and ZFC. And again your comparison to car salesman is just stupid. I dont sell one lube thats the "Best lube ever" and you should only buy this lube. I sell a whole swathe of the best products found from testing - people can choose which one they think - based on the data, based on the detail reviews - which one they think is a great option for them. And they can buy it from anywhere in the world that sells it, with zero link back to me financially in any way. The information they have to help inform the decision is from an exhaustive test - again of which the protocol is open. I cant run a consumer reports model on bicycle chain lubricants - there is not enough market, by quite some factor - to do this in this one little space. The only way to make it viable is the model i have, again all side of which have been open from day one - both the model, and the testing. Level of animosity - Incorrect testing. Recommendations based on magic 8 ball formula's. Recommedations done before any testing even done. Associates with absolute horrific human being Durianrider. Horrific torture and murder of neighbours pet etc etc. Considering this as a start, i have been extremely diplomatic. No he hasnt or doesnt negatively impact - Diy / Oz are more like a gateway. Many DIY'ers convert to a commercial product. i have had many emails over the years re tried Oz, had a bunch of not grand outcomes, but liked the idea of benefits of IM waxing, then bought msw or hot melt etc, and then its grand ol times. And again, overall - the DIY wax demographic is very small vs all other demographics of people lubricating their chain with a comercial wax, wax drip or wet lube. And in the candle wax detail review vid i talk about how cheap it was and how that still would beat the vast majority of commercial lubes, so for those looking to diy - here is where i bought 5kg of it for $40. I dont know how else i can be more just up front and open re - like - everything. I dont get your point re no one uses food grade paraffin or requested it etc. You have access to my inbox and see the requests and DIY wax general enquiries? Are you sure you read the forums because i read them, and i have read a ton where people say use candles, and vids demonstrating using candles. I just have no idea what you are concerned about which me doing the candle wax test re DIY. If it is your personal opinion that more DIY'ers use food grade paraffin (man i wish that was the case) - then fine - but how do make a friggin conspiracy about me testing candle wax. Seriously. And kindly go shove the comments re it being convenient about testing food grade. I have gulf wax here. i state in the candle test i have it here and hope to find a spot to test it. But please perhaps watch the recent video on my to do list. Yes i am fking busy, and have testing to get done that is banked up the wahzoo, all of it MUCH greater information value than testing food grade for DIY'ers. It is already stated we know it will overall test great, so go for it if you want to DIY. Honestly you wonder why im classing you are a conspiracy theorist when thats what you put to me. That really reflects on you, big time. and what is with this? "Manufacturers have an independent testing facility." I feel like I am having a conversation with a overly proud, overly sensitive wall with an unwarranted superiority complex" Its getting a bit beyond the pale. Ok - so you are a mfg of a lubricant that you believe is a top product. But since anyone can claim whatever they like in this space - what do you do to prove its performance if there is no established independent test facility? Or you want to ensure performance before going into production? It is a simple fact that we are providing a service of value to mfg, as well as to cyclists. And that is obvious. If i cant present points of fact to you without you coming back with stuff like that, again - you are simply being impossible. I have stopped reading at that point - it is clear i am definitely at the old adage of never argue with an idiot, they bring you down and beat you with experience. How about since you dont beleive me, or the testing, or the results, or the open (no conflict) business model - you just dont buy any of the recommended lubricants, dont follow the testing or zfc etc. No idea what on earth you're coming on here was about. But overall, far out man - just relax, enjoy your DIY and food grade paraffin, its great, you dont need a ZFC test vs commercial to validate that its great, ZFC does need to focus on commercial products vs DIY for a whole stack of previously explained and logical reasons, check the vid on my current to do list to get even a brief idea of why testing DIY is just a super low priority (and again - really not needed, food grade paraffin would go great - just relax and enjoy it if that is what you are doing ) - we are here to benchmark commercially avail products. Ie what if i had people saying hey what about my motor oil X DIY wet lube blend, or olive oil PTFE blend blah blah blah - should i divert valued test time to wet lube DIY as well as IM wax DIY - thats not what ZFC is here for at all. So if you are genuine at all - watch the To do list vid (and some key stuff is missing off there in my little update hurry). I just really have a so much other test work to do of higher value to 99.9% of cycling world - and that should be obvious anyway - and so again, intimating conspiracies re oh - convenient etc - you really are just out of line, and out of touch with basic realities here, and you can just take that to forums where that thinking is more to your liking.

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Forum? A wrong conclusion based on a skewed and biased hypothesis. Fitting. I'm not registered on a single forum, but I now understand, after our enlightening conversation, the disdain I have read about and heard when researching anything bike related. Thanks for clearing that up. Enjoy your scientific endeavors in the benefit of... you and the corporates of the industry. I am sorry I peeled you away from your "valuable objective testing time" by forcing 15 paragraph War and Peace length ramblings that ignore the giant elephant in the room of your conflict of interest yet perfectly exemplify your juvenile behavior. You have somehow managed to make, even a challenged soul like Oz, the underdog to root for. **Braces for eight chapters of more hair trigger lunacy and denial.**

He is 100pc shooting from the hip when it comes to that grease converter. He straight up promoted something he hasn't tested.

@@pierrex3226 Yeah if he presented it like, hey guys I may have found out what Silca is doing, here's how I tried replicating it. Still not perfect as you could still be bamboozled into think more of it than an experiment. Presented with way to much confidence and lack of care.

Durianrider. One of the objectively worst people ever to be in the cycling space. Google him.

Hey daniel! alas i mostly disagree re the judging actions. I am sure any such things were taken into account, and thats why he only received a "record" sentence for what he did. Yes for sure there are conditions which affect ones ability to make judgements ,decisions and impulse control. But also there are actions taken that are just horrific, and cant be just be oh well - thats ok, he has a bit of this. That is a pretty scary, and pretty slippery slope, and if you were on the end of that slope, i think you would feel differently. Oh yeah did you hear about that guy who raped and murdered that girl - i hope he gets a slap on the wrist, i heard he might have some aspergers.... Wonder how i can support getting that person getting back out there into the community and wonder if he is free for babysitting this weekend. I can tell you from previously being police, the biggest frustration for police, and for victims - is the justice system. basically everyone ever brought before a judge or jury has a whole history of something/s. There a typically so many mitigating circumstances factored into the sentencing, and overall - whilst i dont believe people should just be locked up and throw the key away - if you ask any police, ask any prosecution, ask anyone who is the actual VICTIMS of crimes involved - they will all tell you the system is way broken in favour of the offender. As soon as something bad happens and one is arrested, the whole system here is about the offender, not the victim. Everything is done to support the offender and get them rehabilitated and back out, and every possible mitigating circumstance is drummed up and used. Meanwhile the victims are often left chasing justice, being unsupported, broken, and dismayed at our "justice" system. A lot of people are in favour of a lot of things for offenders until they happen to be the victim of something bad, and then they see what happens in the system. And thats an awakening. Dont make excuses for this. He may have got a record sentence, but for what was done..... if you think everyone who wants to point to X condition as basically getting a free pass on whatever they do no matter how horrific.... that is just one of the biggest issues with the justice system, and what it leads to is more victims. Many, many more victims.

​@@zerofrictioncycling992 Dear Adam, I didn't know that you were a police officer in your previous life. What I know from private discussions with police men ist that these people get in contact with the worst crap of humanity unfiltered and instantly quite often. I know that this work wouldn't be for me but I am very grateful for them making a good job. On the other hand, judges are mainly working inside their boundaries which are the laws. And the law is applicated differently to people with mental disorders which is a good thing. Of course I am sorry for the owners of this poor dog. I really am and i don't wish that to happen to anyone. Unfortunately the community is now completely on its own with the situation that you are decsribing. But maybe it can help to see Steven not as human being like you and me but as a human being with an Asperger background. Actually I think it would help if he apologizes at least. But you know, it's so much upside down with discussing this matter in public here and just by knowing about it from newspaper articles and court protocols. Of course I felt like yuck! when I learned that about him. But I am also very remote. I decided to keep following oz cycling on youtube but there is definitely a shadow on him now. If just all evil actions were clearly connected to mental disorders, but zero friction remains an utopia, in physics as well as in society.

@@danielschindler9180 yes all very well said and yes my perspective and views overall will maybe be more harsh than others. Despite in general being very relaxed and not confrontational, i hate corruption, i hate bad people doing bad things to other people, and i joined police to try do my best to help protect people and community from those who would do them harm - be it physical or financial or other. It is such a tough area as yes - absolutely there are people with a mental condition that make it much more difficult to not do bad things. There are also people with a mental condition who make no effort at all not to do bad things because they have that a fall back crutch excuse. And then there are people who are just absolutely very bad people - who also have a mental condition. It can be very difficult to distinguish who is in what broad category there. Especially when it is the defense lawyers job to put forward whatever narrative will have the best chance of getting their client the most lenient sentence, and our system is focused much more on rehabilitation of the offender than it is protection of victims / community. I don't know where oz sits in things. I do know i love my own dogs very much, they are truly part of the family. I have always when i have had to read or deal with any animal cruelty cases wish the justice system allowed the perpetrator to be treated the same as they treated the animals. So for me personally it is hard to just sweep under the carpet what Oz did, and i am often surprised how non plussed some seem to be who do know. I just cant help but wonder what a persons line would be that one would have to cross before they would go hmm, you know what... that guy is just not for me i dont think. Outside of that...... remember Oz is also friends with Durianrider - who is one of the objectively most horrific people in this space, just maliciously making up whatever he wants to attack people he doesnt like. Thats pretty insidious stuff, and its well known, easily proven for those who dont know - and there is just no way that Oz doesnt know exactly who Durian is and what he does. And he has been involved in hit pieces on ZFC. So yeah.... as they say, birds of a feather flock together - the odds that oz is just a good guy who had snap due to a mental condition vs what may be the other options when he is throwing in his lot with the likes of known horrific slanderer and liar Durian - my god you should see some of the stuff Durian has done also in his vegan space - it is horrendous. There is just no way Oz doesnt know what Durian is, and yet he is buddies with the likes of him.... The odds he is in the good guy category reduce rather drastically, sadly - in my personal opinion. Which is a grand shame as it sure would have been better to be saying what a great guy he is doing overall great stuff in the space. So at the end of the day, for me - i dont truly know re him as i dont really know him. But boy oh boy we have some pretty big flags there with the Durian and the torture and murder -- over the period of a week - of a neighbours pet. And we all have to be true to our core beliefs and feelings i think, and for me it is just very difficult to give a benefit of the doubt at the moment. But his info will be judged on its own merits. if the stuff is stearic acid based, the abrasive powder concerns may be unfounded. But not all products state whats in them, so it is difficult to say what others may end up getting. And he has advised he will have first wear rate results in about 5 months - i think that should be done first before blanket recommending as a DIY thing. And i think there needs to be much better information re how he has arrived at his numbers and his DIY blends and wax drip blends which have changed A LOT over the years - and we do not know on what basis - so i think he should be doing much better to validate what he is recommending overal to his cycling audience.

At the moment, yes

RIP poor dog.

@@Onigure no, OZ is out and still alive actually

Sigh - yes. I havent wanted to cover that side as its just..... horrific. And i dont want to be "doxing" someone or viewed as similar - but i think overall surely the knowledge must be pretty well known? and so how does he have so many supporters? what is the moral line one has to cross before people will go hmm dunno if thats my guy to get cycling advice...... I fear i dont really understand this modern world.

he tortured the dog in the worst case ever seen by the local authorities, then killed the dog.

wtf are you talking about?

@@user-sx6dr1cw8y i will try and post link but YT may delete links, but yes he recently did an 18 month stint in jail for the most horrific torture and murder of his neighbours dog. i just dont get how he still has supporters - what is the line he would have to cross before some people would look elsewhere. For cycling advice. Its not like the internet is short of options and he is like the only voice so oh ok he is horrific but really where else can i go. I dont understand.

@@user-sx6dr1cw8y www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-05/steven-john-leffanue-jailed-over-killing-neighbours-dog/101209462

ok, wow. i can't say that this article looks like a good (~attempting to be objective) source to me. but the fact that he apparently deliberately killed a dog doesn't make him look good. my view on his tech advice stays the same. i sometimes watch him talking about his experiments and am not accepting his claims as necessarily true. let me know how it would be helpful to boycot his channel and potentially make his financial situation worse.

Thanks ralf - i did, and as i mentioned in the video it can be very unclear what is in some (many) of these products. Some do not state and ingredient at all, and so whilst an unknown % may be containing a plant based derivative, i also showed that some contain a volcano based derivative. Or perhaps you missed that bit. Oz has contacted me to say he will be back in about 5 months with wear rates. Personally i think that part should be done first before openly recommending. I am gathering you are an Oz cycle man. You may be able to provide the same rousing feedback.

@@zerofrictioncycling992 No, I am not an "Oz cycle man", whatever that means. But I am pretty sure that none of the products that solidify fat in pans is volcano based - it would kill the coating in no time.

@@ralfmimoun2826 how are you pretty sure? didnt i show that some are? I hope that most are seemingly stearic acid based, but to be honest many i looked at dont even list an ingredient. Initial information on fryclone etc was sent to me by people in usa so that seems potentially a product that comes up over there that does ues perlite. So what comes up and whats in what may be fairly location dependent, and with products that dont list an ingredient - how do you know if its stearic acid or perlite?