Mercedes v Alfa Romeo: F1 front wing airflow explained

  Рет қаралды 92,414

Autosport

Autosport

Күн бұрын

Formula 1's new rules for 2019 have resulted in a mix of approaches from the teams to the new dimensions for the front wings. To explain the different concepts properly, we've taken one from each end of the spectrum, the conventional Mercedes design and the radical Alfa Romeo solution, to show the different ways their wings are trying to manage the airflow

Пікірлер: 144
@Miloristify
@Miloristify 5 жыл бұрын
Hmmm, the Y250 vortices of the Alfa Romeo are spinning in the wrong direction in this animation. :/
@dennispaguio
@dennispaguio 5 жыл бұрын
Went looking for this comment right away after seeing those pink vortices of the Alfa 😂 👍
@mukulsingh2540
@mukulsingh2540 5 жыл бұрын
its made in adobe premier not converge cfd 😂
@Miloristify
@Miloristify 5 жыл бұрын
@@mukulsingh2540 True, but they still decided to make those arrows in the direction, it's an easy fix.
@sporkeh90
@sporkeh90 5 жыл бұрын
Haha yeah lol saw this too, the animation was so basic anyway I was like people cant see this by just looking?
@marian-gabriel9518
@marian-gabriel9518 5 жыл бұрын
And also the green lines going in between the endplate and the tire have no logic....all the other lines (except the y250 v and the green lines) follow some surface or contour...those green lines just "decide" by themselves " screw you guys we're going left". Pffftt....pathetic! PS. And also I'm so fed up with these people hearing some words from an aerodynamicist and think if they also repeat the same words they know what they are talking about. Just listen to each car's aero presentation and basically they are all the same (the cars I mean) by these loonatics descriptions.
@pgansz
@pgansz 5 жыл бұрын
Your guys’ technical breakdowns are hardly technical. Honestly, this guy theorizes, and does not actually explain anything new for seasoned F1 fans. Instead he uses tired, arbitrary and generalized phrases. Lame.
@remid1994
@remid1994 5 жыл бұрын
This is the Hamiltonian era F1, what more do you expect?
@davidpape5548
@davidpape5548 5 жыл бұрын
Remi R What does Hamilton to do with it? lmfao
@Carfunmostly
@Carfunmostly 5 жыл бұрын
Get an aerodynamicist. He was Carp!
@bLiNdThInG1
@bLiNdThInG1 5 жыл бұрын
Very fishy indeed.
@dwaynehicks6838
@dwaynehicks6838 5 жыл бұрын
Yeah more flounder I thought.
@TimAnt46
@TimAnt46 5 жыл бұрын
I disagree. This guy had me hook, line and sinker
@jasperfk
@jasperfk 5 жыл бұрын
This is neither the time or the Plaice for fishy puns...
@PeteSimpson
@PeteSimpson 5 жыл бұрын
I bet if the Mercedes and Alfa aerodynamicists watched this video, they would be laughing their heads off 😁😂🤣👎
@em9136
@em9136 5 жыл бұрын
Pete Simpson 🤣🤣👍🏻
@matstanic8130
@matstanic8130 5 жыл бұрын
No idea
@matthewsmith8249
@matthewsmith8249 5 жыл бұрын
Wish they’d have addressed the boundary layer along the spinning tire and its effects on the out wash vortices.
@icodirtjumper
@icodirtjumper 5 жыл бұрын
Can you please explain?
@remid1994
@remid1994 5 жыл бұрын
You are asking them too much.
@formulajuan5762
@formulajuan5762 5 жыл бұрын
Mate, they couldn't even explain why their animations showed the vortices spinning in the wrong direction, you're definitely asking too much of them.
@chrisrushtonltd
@chrisrushtonltd 5 жыл бұрын
nice video. very helpful
@Altruistic00
@Altruistic00 5 жыл бұрын
This is getting ridiculous now. You guys are just trying too hard to look smart. Did Someone just got a hold of Adobe After Effect in the office recently?
@joetapson9583
@joetapson9583 4 жыл бұрын
Half of the vortices are shown spinning in the wrong direction and it's driving me mental
@TheRagingStorm98
@TheRagingStorm98 5 жыл бұрын
Basically the third world Scarbs for PeterWindsor
@PieterFret
@PieterFret 5 жыл бұрын
Interesting! Do you think we'll see a convergence in wing styles as the season progresses? And how fast could the teams that "got it wrong" (or less ideal) adapt? As I understand, changing the front wing design would mean changing the whole aerodynamic package of the car. So maybe, teams like Mercedes and Ferrari would rather stick to their own, very different, design philosophies?
@sciencegeek9706
@sciencegeek9706 5 жыл бұрын
I think he's missing a bit on the Alpha wing. I think the big plank yes does do the downforce like he says but it also forces a lot of air to race around it, thus helping the outflow around the tire.
@brucew.5292
@brucew.5292 5 жыл бұрын
Hire scarbs, this is a joke. That graphics team you have is a first year student quality.
@pranshupant1413
@pranshupant1413 5 жыл бұрын
These guys don't have a clue about aerodynamics. They just keep regurgitating trite remarks and pretend to be experts. The Y250 vortex is spinning the wrong way for crying out loud.
@kevinaguirre3168
@kevinaguirre3168 5 жыл бұрын
They sound like theyre just bullshitting
@Wishwader
@Wishwader 5 жыл бұрын
I see you didnt make any mistakes in your own analysis videos. Because you havent made any videos.
@pranshupant1413
@pranshupant1413 5 жыл бұрын
@@Wishwader I'm just pointing out that a company as big as Autosport shouldn't be making such gaffes. Moreover, they have decided to post this video on KZfaq so it's their prerogative to be factually correct not mine. PS. Maybe I will post some F1 aero analysis videos someday given the lack of competition these guys have. 🤔 Aarava makes some great analysis videos though.
@ggibbs2560
@ggibbs2560 5 жыл бұрын
It’s disappointing. Not enough credibility, but will stick with it. For now.
@ads2686
@ads2686 5 жыл бұрын
@peter pan fucking hell maybe you should consider growing up.
@kcb5150
@kcb5150 5 жыл бұрын
This is like the dollar store version of scarbs
@brellnob
@brellnob 5 жыл бұрын
kcb5150 why be disrespectful?
@elta6241
@elta6241 5 жыл бұрын
@@brellnob He's right sadly.
@MsJaood
@MsJaood 5 жыл бұрын
Meanwhile scarbs is held hostage in a bunker and delivers his presentation on a cropped tv that fucks the camera.
@kcb5150
@kcb5150 5 жыл бұрын
@@MsJaood And even in the current situation he outclasses them on every level. Even when they have a full panel of analysts.... It's telling.. Quality over quantity. I keep giving them chances too because the yt algorithm keeps insisting, but every time I either run into half-baked analysis or unhinged bias.
@ggibbs2560
@ggibbs2560 5 жыл бұрын
kcb5150 Scarbs would still be working for Autosport if they had bothered to pay him and other contributors. People can’t work for free or be mucked around.
@taqbir4zap
@taqbir4zap 5 жыл бұрын
Loving the #AlfaRomeoRacing wings!!
@MroStudios
@MroStudios 5 жыл бұрын
Oh, you finally inverted the car and the helmet on the background. It took more time than completing a lap for a williams car noways.
@shayannajam8373
@shayannajam8373 5 жыл бұрын
The y250 on the sauber is rotating in the wrong direction in the video, on the outboard section where the high AOA meets the flatter section would produce a bottom in rotating vortex hitting the front face of the tire at an angle instead of straight green flow as shown
@formulajuan5762
@formulajuan5762 5 жыл бұрын
They made the same mistake on the Merc endplate. Their animation shows air rotating from the low pressure side to the high pressure side.
@nobroblem1
@nobroblem1 5 жыл бұрын
Please please ; in future all the technical explaining , make Graphic added comment please. I now understand much better, Thank you
@realfians4k
@realfians4k 5 жыл бұрын
I can't believe this guy described vortices as "baby tornados". Guys, please be serious.
@juniorenninsampson1342
@juniorenninsampson1342 5 жыл бұрын
Thak you for making another video about fron wing
@anthonyfa18
@anthonyfa18 5 жыл бұрын
Can u do a video on pu and party mode
@nickwood9971
@nickwood9971 5 жыл бұрын
are the wings now not more important and any damage in a race could have serious consequences?
@nelsonphillips
@nelsonphillips 5 жыл бұрын
Huff. Firstly, this analysis does not make sense when the wheels are pointing straight. For there you can start to speak about how the car is generating downforce whilst cornering. This is particularly important on the outside of the front wing as the rear of the car is rotating into the turbulence of the outside front tyre. Now this is particularly evident with the sauber as the is a clear demarcation of geometry between the downforce generating section and the flow structure section. Creating such ubrupt geometric difference suggests that the section interacting with the tyre is that part with the curious lack of slot gap. However, if considering there is a large blockage behind the wing created be the tyre then the principle shifts from flow separation concerns to flow volume concerns. Meaning that the flow volume interacting with the tyre allows for greater consideration of the high pressure rather than the low downforce creating pressure. This is why they have a gurney flap to help aid a greater high pressure interaction. Normally for example high pressure is just an energy wasting process, like trying to blow on your drink to make is go up the straw. Now that there is this exasperated high pressure section this could be used to interact with a low pressure region and create a more dominant flow structure. The low pressure comes of the end plate and thus allowing for a stronger and wider outwash. The strakes under the wing of the merc does something similar in a more conventional way. But, rather than exaggerating the tyre blockage they are trying to exaggerate the low pressure of the wing section that is outside of the tyre. Which is better? neither, one is stronger and one is more efficient. But, if there was a team that understands the flow structures that interact with the rear of the car in yaw, it is merc. something something......
@nicolafox9452
@nicolafox9452 5 жыл бұрын
Think you should be sat on the sofa 😉
@leoarc1061
@leoarc1061 5 жыл бұрын
I also think that you should be sat on a sofa. Im not yet convinced that the alpha wing is the best overall solution. It strikes me as being way too aggressive. The Merc wing seems simple in comparison but the bargeboard area is anything but simple. As you correctly pointed out, analyzing these wings at 0 yaw is completely out of context. Qualifying them without considering the nose and the bargeboard area is even more ludicrous. In any case, this is a free Autosport video. We get what we pay for.
@mosca3289
@mosca3289 5 жыл бұрын
Does anyone have expertise in CFD? How difficult/expensive would it be to do an analysis of approximations of the two wing types?
@guanweihe7614
@guanweihe7614 5 жыл бұрын
You wouldn’t see much, all of those differences make very little impact on the whole car, but they do add up and it’s more about how the whole car works, and to do a CFD simulation of a whole car you basically need F1 team level resources
@mosca3289
@mosca3289 5 жыл бұрын
@@guanweihe7614 Thanks. I did find a pretty interesting analysis of a generic 2017 car. www.davidpublisher.org/Public/uploads/Contribute/5b88eb315a456.pdf
@nothngspermanent
@nothngspermanent 5 жыл бұрын
Lets have race without front wings
@yangguan4070
@yangguan4070 5 жыл бұрын
I need to redesign my aircon vent that can create vortices around the headrest with sufficient outwash to ensure my rear passengers have sufficient cooling
@oxcart4172
@oxcart4172 5 жыл бұрын
So now we know about the '250' but what about the 'Y?'
@oxcart4172
@oxcart4172 5 жыл бұрын
@Davvy Jannes Thank u. No joke. Everyone is ignorant about different things
@SMACK1978
@SMACK1978 5 жыл бұрын
How do the blown hubs affect the flow around the front tire?
@leoarc1061
@leoarc1061 5 жыл бұрын
They dont. They are banned for 2019.
@SMACK1978
@SMACK1978 5 жыл бұрын
If they are allowed brake ducts, they are blowing the hubs. Whether FIA like it or not.
@leoarc1061
@leoarc1061 5 жыл бұрын
@@SMACK1978 You are correct. However, if you have a big brake duct, the brakes and the tyres will lose too much temperature, on top of the extra drag and dirty air created by it. With a correctly sized brake duct, the brakes and tyre temps will be comparatively reasonable, but the air will not have enough energy to influence the tyre wake.
@keirangeorge4638
@keirangeorge4638 5 жыл бұрын
What a duo! JBL and that sofa.
@enzoma7253
@enzoma7253 5 жыл бұрын
Love these graphics!
@madbycc
@madbycc 5 жыл бұрын
Been trying to watch this now for a couple of weeks. Can anyone tell me who these guys are? Ever been near an f1 car? Or even watched a race live?
@alensabanovic747
@alensabanovic747 5 жыл бұрын
next video on autosport, Alfa is faster than Mercedes
@defmud80
@defmud80 5 жыл бұрын
My precious
@bkgordon5491
@bkgordon5491 5 жыл бұрын
Very well done 👍
@linslins4860
@linslins4860 5 жыл бұрын
When the air passes through the car, it feels refreshing like in front of an electric fan.
@SoYFooD2
@SoYFooD2 5 жыл бұрын
i know just a small bit about aerodynamics and they got it almost all wrong. like the step in the end plate of the mersedies. the high part will have lower pressure difference and will have a big but slow spill over vortex. the step part will have way higher presser then on the other side of the end plate and will have a small but powerful spill over vortex. if u combine them u can get a vortex in a vortex or u can make them blend.u can have the big one pull the fast one to the outside. or the small one can pull the big one to the inside. u can have them murage in to a ovel for a short bit and use that as a wall. or it can produce counter rotation so that the top of one vortex will power the bottom of the other. having tall but narrow high speed air instead of big round and slower spinning air. wat i think the merc idea is to have the angel of the step down vortex be way to the outside. this being helped by the curve of the end plate and the ridge on the outside end of the of the end plate. the big and slow vortex will want to hit the tire.but at the 3'o clock moment it will hit the 12'o clock of the fast vortex and be powered to the outside of the wheel. wiles the small high speed vortex has time to lose its power and fade in to the big opening in front of the tire. again im no expert but, i know better then to just just add random vortexes inside the front wing streaks. they are there to maintain laminar and more impotently strait flow.
@SoggyCabbages
@SoggyCabbages 5 жыл бұрын
JBL talks like he’s trying to stifle a fart every few seconds.
@hellobooom
@hellobooom 5 жыл бұрын
Noise cancelling enabled.
@soraaoixxthebluesky
@soraaoixxthebluesky 4 жыл бұрын
They nerfed our front wing? Let’s build a tons of wings on our barge boards.
@brabhamF1
@brabhamF1 5 жыл бұрын
I have never seen a person with a more kubical head than JBL.
@hellobooom
@hellobooom 5 жыл бұрын
That's where he keeps the speaker grille.
@LeCharles07
@LeCharles07 4 жыл бұрын
Surely it would be easier to just show us cfd modeling, those lines are nice but they still over simplifying things.
@64hawki
@64hawki 5 жыл бұрын
Alfa front wing should be band on the grounds of FIA directive of stopping out wash.....I do think.
@formulajuan5762
@formulajuan5762 5 жыл бұрын
What FIA directive? lol. There was no rule that outright banned outwash, otherwise literally every car this year would be illegal, since they all accomplish at least some degree of outwash.
5 жыл бұрын
the purple lines do this and according top this Chap not only do these wings create down pressure ...They create Weather Tornado's and the SUCH ...what a LARK!
@NeweyAdrian1
@NeweyAdrian1 5 жыл бұрын
Y'all can talk about ur alfa and mercedes front wings, but my front wing is innovative, advanced, ultra light and better than the Lidl budget frontwings of mercedes and especially alfa romeo. I cant believe everyone takes this newbie team and its horrible frontwing serious, while i have been a respectable designer for decades and get little to no attention in this video.
@pihermoso11
@pihermoso11 5 жыл бұрын
please.... did you make rubber morphing front wings this time??
@Carfunmostly
@Carfunmostly 5 жыл бұрын
Lol
@cjsotelo8695
@cjsotelo8695 5 жыл бұрын
Fake
@skinsisagod
@skinsisagod 5 жыл бұрын
That because no one likes Red Bull.
@gothic785
@gothic785 5 жыл бұрын
I see the fake accounts are rearing their ugly heads again ...:p
@hamzterix
@hamzterix 5 жыл бұрын
I wonder why F1 never build bodywork on the back of the tires. That's where all the drag is happening. If FIA allows it F1 could have been even faster.
@ChefofWar33
@ChefofWar33 5 жыл бұрын
Tradition mostly. F1 has always been open wheel.
@Razor77725
@Razor77725 5 жыл бұрын
Mercedes W196 disagrees with you.
@SiR2Dean
@SiR2Dean 5 жыл бұрын
Oh dear....
@sipsterstudioz5598
@sipsterstudioz5598 5 жыл бұрын
Jbl actually called the vortex a baby tornado! What a lad!
@rajjy1976
@rajjy1976 5 жыл бұрын
Sipster Studioz He gets £5 commission every time he uses the word Vortex. So far he’s made £350k during these winter testing analysis videos over the last few weeks.
@s.d.h.3t981
@s.d.h.3t981 5 жыл бұрын
Vettel=Tornado
@gokartbob6478
@gokartbob6478 5 жыл бұрын
All you talk about is the front wing.
@nicolafox9452
@nicolafox9452 5 жыл бұрын
Not long now it's getting so close first race 🤗🤗🤗
@nicolafox9452
@nicolafox9452 5 жыл бұрын
@Fabian MadridReyes Yep Ferrari's year this year
@aformalevent
@aformalevent 5 жыл бұрын
y250's in the wrong direction :/ come on guys. I feel sorry for the presenters who (hopefully) saw this and were dissapointed by it but had to do the talk anyways as if it wasn't obviously wrong.
@remid1994
@remid1994 5 жыл бұрын
I'm fairly certain than Mercedes gonna show up in Melbourne with lots of Ferrari's design cues just like every other things they copied from Ferrari. James Allison might have done to them what he did to Ferrari.
@yolinkin
@yolinkin 5 жыл бұрын
so i take it you`re a ferrari fan .... d__(^_^)__b
@a.Hopeful
@a.Hopeful 5 жыл бұрын
People... I have a fun game... Have a shot each time JBL says Vortex... :D Trust me it's real fun..... :D :p
@bmoney2011
@bmoney2011 5 жыл бұрын
That Alfa is gonna suffer mightily if its front wing gets damaged in any way.
@hughtubecube
@hughtubecube 5 жыл бұрын
Who else thinks they installed the frosted glass because the comments lit up w/ creepy comments every time a video came out with a woman walking past in the background?
@randomtask9029
@randomtask9029 5 жыл бұрын
Yawn... Modern Formula 1 should be renamed Formula Aero and sponsored by a bubbly chocolate bar.
@KompletterGeist
@KompletterGeist 5 жыл бұрын
You should hire an engineer or aerodynamicist for this stuff...shouldn't be too difficult
@AyaxRo
@AyaxRo 5 жыл бұрын
I'm sorry but what are the qualifications of these guys to supposedly go "in depth" on these explanations? this whole video reeks of overly complicating VERY BASIC airflow concepts?...
@mukulsingh2540
@mukulsingh2540 5 жыл бұрын
These guys dont know shit and that simulation is just animated. journalists arent engineers
@JamaaLS
@JamaaLS 5 жыл бұрын
Keep that armchair warm, make a better vidoe or just shut the fuck up.
@formulajuan5762
@formulajuan5762 5 жыл бұрын
@ᚱᛖᚨᛞ ᛋᛖᛁᚷᛖ They should at least consult an aerodynamicist before making a video full of so much bullshit.
@gigasigma8373
@gigasigma8373 5 жыл бұрын
0:20 wtf is this guy talking about?
@chrissummer1327
@chrissummer1327 5 жыл бұрын
F1 + nuclear reactor engines.
@DrummerBoii1411
@DrummerBoii1411 5 жыл бұрын
Can y’all consider inviting Mark Priestley? An actual former F1 engineer is always good as a perspective.
@williamstephens9945
@williamstephens9945 5 жыл бұрын
He'd probably cost too much for them.
@rohitrevankar7674
@rohitrevankar7674 5 жыл бұрын
These guys might be amateur in their aero explanations but I don't see how Mark Priestley could do much better... He's a mechanic.. His expertise is in alignments, camber, suspension geometries... Watching his vids doesn't tell me anything more about the aero in f1 than autosport.. I think you all have an issue with the way they deliver the info rather than the info itself.. Granted it isn't elaborate but this isn't aero 101 at university guys!!
@north6ix_linden673
@north6ix_linden673 5 жыл бұрын
Blue air, pink air, purple air and swirling vortices. Seriously? Guys you can do better than this.
@duke_gaming5447
@duke_gaming5447 5 жыл бұрын
Good Analysis..😊😊
@user-oh8bb5wb4d
@user-oh8bb5wb4d 5 жыл бұрын
Ferrari Champion 2019
@alanpods______8260
@alanpods______8260 5 жыл бұрын
These Autosport guys are clearly just blagging it. No qualifications to speak of. No technical information whatsoever. We have just a single image of a wing, with some speculative coloured animations generously drawn over it. Is this what F1 has come to now?
@varffman1053
@varffman1053 5 жыл бұрын
Good analysis! Mutch better than Rich energy Scarbs!! : D
@TMJ32
@TMJ32 5 жыл бұрын
Are you on meth?
@happyface96
@happyface96 3 жыл бұрын
F1 used to attract millionaire playboys and blondes bc of it's sex appeal, now it's just a geekfest for geeks and nerds(like these two blokes), lost most of its raw and risky nature & replaced it with safe, logical snd rigid one.
@gigasigma8373
@gigasigma8373 5 жыл бұрын
shouldv done a ferrari vs merc front wing airflow comparison not against alfa
@tcroft2165
@tcroft2165 5 жыл бұрын
Alfa is the most extreme version of that wing concept and Merc the most the other way.
@geepersoilyrag1884
@geepersoilyrag1884 5 жыл бұрын
been watching these shitty F1 videos pre season on Autosport now for what feel like months! All I have to say is - OI AUTOSPORT, NOOOOOOOOOOOO. WTF1 have more credibility these days! Is F1 where real motorsports fans dont go or something??
@ohm-one-sir8965
@ohm-one-sir8965 5 жыл бұрын
Without Scarborough and Windsor , this channel is so boring. No professional analysis and infantile guessing about facts. USELESS!!
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