I appreciate your comment however I am not the owner of this system. I merely documented this particular system. Even if I did provide cost figures, it would not be of much benefit as each system is unique to the chosen site and costs can vary widely depending on numerous factors. First there is the potential power available at the particular site which dictates if the desired use of that power is practical. Who will design the system? What will be the best equipment and materials available to meet the unique requirements of the most beneficial and practical design? Then there are expenses involved in acquiring water rights which are likely different in each state or country depending on a pro se (self applied) application or hiring lawyer to work on them. Who will do the labor to install the system? Is it your own sweat equity, friends that can help, or hired labor and at what rate? How much time will it take to install? What materials can be accessed? Reused or new pipe, copper or aluminum wire? How long a length of wire? What building(s) will house the equipment? What transformers, batteries, load regulators, power shunts, or utility net metering are available and/or appropriate to the particular site? All of theses factors can add to the costs and it would be naive of me to present a one size fits all price. One must be clear that installing a system is creating an asset which would likely provide power for a lifetime. Can it be financed over time and does that cost make economic sense when compared to running utility lines to an off grid property? Will a local utility be willing to purchase excess power and at what rate? Undertaking a project of this size is not for the faint of heart. It IS a large commitment both financially and in effort and time. My first system (1.5kw) which I own and documented on this channel cost ~$25k and was installed in the mid 90’s. Redesigning and moving the same equipment to a more reliable water source was also documented on my channel and took place between 2013-2015 and added another ~$55k but boosted the useable power by a factor of 5 to 7.5kw. WHEN a project occurs occurs is also a factor governing cost. Inflation impacts everything involved and the fact that I intend these videos to remain on the internet for years to come and provide some clear eyed guidance to people that are serious about their own intentions, this dictates that I not mislead them with cost estimates willynilly. Thanks for watching and for your comment. I hope you gain a broader perspective from the whole channel and benefit from the heart felt intention with which it has freely been shared and provided.

Cost is secondary. What matters most is the return on invest by a given number of money/unit of electricity. But even that doesn't matter if there are no/less other off-grid options. So here I would guess a ROI about 18-24 years including maintenance and replacement costs for the batteries for example, considering market price for the unit of electricity today.

That's bc it is too expensive. But not enough information. How far to the nearest commercial power source, vs total cost for the hydro. But I'm sure the people doing the project figured that out ahead of time....

Low side $100k American, High side $250k. That’s my guess. Depends on equipment, wire, plumbing, labor hours, purchased new? Used? Etc. Will probably run for 30 years with basic maintenance providing thousands a month if electricity. TAX FREE! Literally pays for itself if you get $1000 per month electricity even at $300k. Power company can charge big money to run power then charge you, tax you, limit your power. What’s freedom worth?

@@peoplenewstodayAbsolutely, it all comes down to freedom in the end.

Thanks for watching!

I'm glad you found value in the video. I must say that living with hydro is a joy. This system in this video isn't mine. I don't know if you've seen the earlier videos, but there is the system I own which I started documenting in earnest as the foundation of the channel (parts 1-21) and another which runs on irrigation water. I've attempted to broaden the range of systems I document, but they are not the easiest thing to find and then talk folks into letting me film them. Anyway, if you haven't seen the other parts of the channel, please check out my own system and the irrigation water one. Thanks for watching

You are so welcome! Thanks for watching!

Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching!

You are most welcome! Thanks for watching!

Thanks for watching!

I didn't design and I don't own the property. I will be posting another update video about how our system is running once I get through editing one on Micro Hydro learning and education. Thanks for watching!

Thanks for watching!

Even a small amount of hydro can really compliment solar with batteries quite nicely. Glad you find the videos helpful. More to come. Thanks for watching!

Thanks for watching

Thx for watching!

Thanks for watching!

Thank YOU for the kind comment and for watching. Micro hydro has become a passion and a joy to live with 🙏🏼

You bet! Thanks for watching!

Thanks for watching

You're welcome! Thanks for watching!

Thanks for watching!

Yeah, I thought it was interesting because it is a low head/high flow site which is very different from my own system which has a much higher head with much less flow. Different equipment as well. All very interesting to me. Thanks for watching!

Its about a five hour trip to get to this property for me as its not my own. If I learn of updates I will try to share. Thanks for watching!

Thank you too!

Maybe one day. On cost, you are paying for all future power up front, so it is costly. Thanks for watching!

Thx for watching!

@@mrhydrohead èė

I hope to as well Ernie. I'm very pleased to see the view count up above 19K in 3 days. Way cool! Thanks for watching!

Thanks for watching!

Thanks for watching!

You might consider a Crossflow Turbine with such a low head. Its important to study the flow and resulting power potential through different seasons. Definitely should be done to optimize the expense/benefit ratio analysis. Thx for watching!

I did hear that they intend to use a grain silo as a protective structure, but I have no idea how they intend to build a foundation to support it. I think that task will be given to a separate contractor to accomplish. Thanks for watching!

Yes, I was thinking the same.

One year at a time. Seems their build season is weather permitting

They want to show the process. We would not be able to see if it was housed. Its far away from the house noise seams not a problem.

@LeJimster I wondered the same. Considering this seems system ment for decades, the turbine installation over steel box without any foundations, almost at the creek seems dubious. Ofcourse they were severely limited by 35 feet head. Building proper powerhouse would had robbed them easily 5 feet.

I have literally no experience with batteries as MY system is straight AC with ELC for load management. Hopefully readers of the comments will benefit from you sharing your practical knowledge. Thanks for watching and sharing!

@@mrhydrohead Your system is amazing! I hope I wasn't coming off as rude, I just didn't know balancers existed and I wish someone told me. We don't use them here in America (or at-least they aren't widely used here). Can't wait for more vids!

@@GeeCeeAte More to come. Thanks for watching!

You’re right, AGM batteries can’t be equalized by charging like flooded lead acid, so they destroy themselves as they get out of balance. Using a balancer on a bank of 12v batteries helps but you still have no way to balance the 6 cells in each battery. If you had a bunch of single cell AGM with a balancer it would help that one specific problem, but its not the only one. AGM is good for emergency power, where it stays at float most of its life. You cant store it at 50% charge and use it as a energy storage buffer. LiFePO4 is really what I was expecting to see in this system. Something that is happy staying at 30-80% SOC all year, and requires very little maintenance. AGM is cheap initially but will cost more after you replace them a few times. I just replaced mine with LiFePO4 and a smart BMS, so now instead of checking each battery with a multimeter and manually balancing them, i open my Bluetooth app and check and if its not staying balanced i can initiate a balance cycle and they are perfect again.

By now lithium ion is the way to go

Wow that sounds great! 3600gpm and 11ft head! WOAH! Thats a honkin' site! Sounds like you really get it with the utility being your governor for your induction motor. I had heard this was possible in the SEI course I took in 1996 , but I've never seen it done. Man, if I lived closer I'd love to film it and share the example. Alas I'm so far away. So glad something I posted was helpful to you. You can certainly call yourself a HydroHead. Congrats to you. and as always, Thanks for watching! Care to share any Pix to my email? MrHydrohead@gmail.com

@@mrhydrohead sent photos and sending a video if it will go through.

Great idea! Thanks for watching!

Thanks! Will do! Thanks for watching!

Thanks for watching!

Made in China is a beautiful term.

Especially if you are Uyghur Ismail.

I guess the turbine works fine and comes with a competitive price. Also I am not sure if you can get a Made in USA one for this little scale.

It may have to do with added cost on an extended Coanda. Not sure. Flow is turned down at turbine if supply is insufficient, but I'm pretty sure its scaled the available seasonal flows. I'm sure cost played into choice of Chinese Turbine. Its not my system, so I'm just and observer/documenter. Thanks for watching!

Coanda screens seem to me to be an overcomplication as they stilll catch debris and need maintenance by a human. Theoretically if you took water into the penstock at half way between the top of the water and the bottom of the water in a say 3ft deep pond....the silt would be settling on the bottom and the leaves would be floating over the top. Whatever the size of your penstock intake....a tube 50% bigger, stoppered at one end, sleeved down to fit into the intake penstock at the other...drilled with many holes along a good length of it with a textile sleeve as a "just in case" filter wrapped round it..... at the halfway depth in the pond....would always force more than enough water through all the holes and not induce suction vortices.... In floods all the excess water would flow over the dam wall without damage or clogging of the pipe...unlike with a coanda screen dam.... You could lay this intake over the top of the dam off to one side like a syphon which would mean no holes in the dam wall...and a much easier replacement if necessary.... kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gryfmMR8qKvIYqM.html

The Coanda screen as designed is self cleaning and the seasonal variations in flow would likely clog what you’ve described in fall time with leaves and debris which isn’t floating. I have worked with a variety of intake styles on my own system shown in the other videos on this Channel and have seen that sort of design you describe get clogged by submerged debris. There are many ways to approach any intake and this one design seems like it will function quite well. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!

❤️🙏🏼 Thank you for watching

Thx 🙏🏼 for watching

Thx for watching!

Thanks for watching!

You are most welcome. Thx for watching 😉

They did have difficulty pulling the wire mainly caused by burial damage to conduit. Thanks for watching!

You're welcome! Thanks for watching!

I'm not sure how to answer this. To harness potential power from water, it needs to be moving and/or falling over a vertical change. I don't know what elevations your intended wells will be or if there is an adequate difference in the two wells. I also don't know how much water you intend to move. The potential power is a result of two measurements. Flow and Head (vertical drop). I am assuming they would be drawing on the same water table and you would need some energy to pull the water from one well and it will feed into a second well with the same water table elevation. As a consequence I don't see how you could make the system viable and worth the expense of putting it in place. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Thanks for watching!

You bet! Thanks for watching!

At 4:24 in the video is a plate showing 6.6kw. I don’t own the system, so can’t provide measured output over time. Thx for the compliment and for watching 🙏🏻

Thanks for watching

Thanks for watching!

This was a reply I got from Ken, the designer/installer: "The Francis turbine required a battery based inverter because the system is off grid. There is plenty of power from the turbine and the batteries would rarely cycle. I used AGM batteries because they are designed for that purpose - remain full most of the time. Lithium batteries are far more expensive and don’t justify the expense as the batteries are simply a requirement for off-grid." Hope this answers your question. Thanks for watching.

I imagine so. You need to keep in mind the cost to wire in grid power to the property and this off grid system becomes a much more attractive venture. Thanks for watching!

You bet. Thanks for watching!

I didn’t design the system, but my system (in other videos on my channel) does utilize a transformer to lessen wire costs and line losses. I’m assuming you are referring to using transformers for the lengthy transmission. My take on it would be that any lessening of line loss in transmission (step up at turbine/step down in power room) from higher voltage would not offset losses from the transformers utilized. I'm uncertain if any benefit would justify the added cost. I don't have a way of analyzing this and you might ask Ken Gardner (the designer) if there is another reason. His contact info is in the notes below the video. Thanks for watching.

I don't know what Ken's rationale was in his selections of gear, but I trust his expertise. And because MY system is straight AC with an ELC for load management I know very little first hand about batteries/inverters. As I understand it, the purpose of feeding the AC to the Outback Inverter is to enable battery peak load capacity to the overall system as well as a means of shunting excess power to the dump loads to the right of the Outback. I don't know that the ABB inverter has the capability of shunt loads which would provide load management tot he system. The shunt dump load wasn't described in the video for reasons of brevity. I don't know virtually anything about the SolArk unit you mention and it may forego what he has designed. Ken is a pretty busy person and isn't involved in these videos beyond allowing me access to document them. I try to not bother him with questions about what he has completed as I know he's onto several other projects once he finishes one. Thanks for watching!

Sorry for the slow reply. The power from the turbine is unregulated and comes into the house in a range of voltage and hz which varies. Using a simple transformer would not output the standard power required by code. Rectifying the power to DC enables the inverter to use this source plus the battery bank to output regulated power that meets code specifications. At least thats how I understand it. Thanks for watching

The info I have on it is on screen at 4:24 in the vid. Thanks for watching!

A tricky bit. Pulling wire through, it stops, mark the wire at feed point, pull it back out, measure mark on wire to the lead end, measure that distance out on the ground, dig away, voila the damage to conduit is found. A very frustrating process for them. Too much to describe in the video, but a good question. Lesson is to be very careful with bedding and backfilling the trench. Thank for watching!

@@mrhydrohead great explanation. That is the method i was guessing but i wanted to ask incase it was something i havent thought if. Must have taken quite a bit of force to break that tube in such a manner.

@@EarthshipFreedom Just one heavy rock dropped from the excavator bucket. That was the evidence at least 🤔

You know, those Bull Tapes are marked every foot (here in the U.S.) By noting the number at the receiving end when the pull starts , and then where it's stuck, you know exactly where the hangup is.

Thx for watching!🙏

If you look at part 1 you will see that the intake dam has a Coanda screen which will mitigate any of those problems. Thx for watching

It’s not my system so I don’t know about lubrication

At 6kw it could produce over 140kWh/day which is certainly enough for more homes where ~35kWh/day is the typical power usage most people see on their power bills. However I don't think the owners intend to run it at max capacity year round. Additionally, this system being fully off grid, running wire to distant neighbors which are few and far would not be a reasonable step. I do believe one day the owners plan to erect other structures on the property. I believe Ken Gardner (Utah based) works on project nationwide and his contact info is in the comments section of the video. He may also know of others working out east. I have only traded a few messages with this hydro source www.langstonsalternativepower.com so I don't have direct experience with them. I think they are in S.C. If you contact either of them please let them know that I referred you to them. I'm sure they would appreciate the referral. Good luck if you have a project in mind. Thanks for watching!

Thanks for watching. There will be a new video up on Friday 😉🙏

If the owners run it at designed max they should get 6000 watts or 144kWh/day. I don’t think they will need to run it at that level until they build other buildings on the property. Thanks for watching!

What Mr. Gardner (system designer) told me was that the owner intends to put a grain silo type structure over the turbine. I don’t know what sort of foundation is planned for that. I hope you saw part 1 where the base below the turbine is shown as a prefabricated discharge chamber. I don’t think there is any slab under it. I haven't been back to see what changes have been made. thanks for watching!

What Mr. Gardner told me was that the owner intends to put a grain silo type structure over the turbine. I don’t know what sort of foundation is planned for that. I hope you saw part 1 where the base below the turbine is shown as a prefabricated discharge chamber. I don’t think there is any slab under it. The least amount of transmission loss is achieved with the 3Phase AC being run the greatest distance and then being rectified at the house. DC would have a greater line loss. The dump load in the house provides some heat where it would be useful. I don’t believe they wanted to put any automation on the vane control and to leave that adjustment to be manual. Thanks for watching!

I believe the owner plans to put a grain silo over the Turbine for protection, but likely will be built by a different contractor. Thanks for watching! I posted a new video today.

The cost wasn't stated, but it wasn't cheap. Probably in excess of $100K. You pay for all future power with up front costs. A lot of money can be saved doing the installation yourself as opposed to hiring labor. The best way to approach a project is to determine what the power demand will be, ie less demand = less cost. Analyzing first your need and then sizing the system to meet that will save you a great deal of money. 30kWh/day is what most US households average out to. Having batteries/inverter can serve to cover peak loads. Hope this helps some. Thanks for watching!

harrismicrohydro.com/pricing.html Here is a far more cost-effective solution. A weir can be built from natural materials and a little fabric with clay. Turbine sizes can vary. Install energy-efficient devices and systems, and supplement your power with other forms of renewables such as solar panels. A larger battery bank allows for more usage during peak times, and it will recharge at night, and during the day while you are working the land or working. The normal total cost for a system capable of operating the average household is between 25-35k. This includes all materials and the rental or usage of an excavator. The maintenance costs are between 150-500 a year. Depending on the system, the pipe is the most expensive part.

Thanks for watching!

Thats a question many folks have asked. As I wasn't the designer or owner, it wasn't MY choice to make or even consider. I will ask the designer why he made that choice and will share the thinking if I get a meaningful answer. Thanks for watching!

Sorry I don't have an answer to those details. I'm neither the designer or the owner of this system. You could ask the designer/installer (Ken) whose email contact is in the notes about the video. Thanks for watching.

Welcome. Thx for watching

it is worth the investment if you got the property at a good price because it has no power to it. Lets say it was for sale at $600k with no power..they offer £500k and spend that money on renewable electricity and never have to worry about paying an electricity bill ever again..also 6kw is 140KW/hrs a day so about 5 times more than the average house needs so they have surplus to charge an EV or two so gas prices are no longer an issue either. Maintenance shouldn't be too bad , the pipe has 10m of head so should stay clean , the Coanda screen rarely needs any cleaning and the turbine needs bearings greased now and then. It's a no brainer.

In many small ways, yes!

I don’t own the system so I don’t know specifics but my guess is that cost is in excess of $100K. Designed output is for 6.6kw (see 4:25) or 158 kWh/day. The supposes availability of design water flows which is unlikely year round. The average US household uses 30-35kWh/day. My understanding is the owner may build other structures. Battery system should easily handle any peak loads. Thx for watching

Thanks for watching!

I don't own this system, so I don't know how much the total system cost. Even if I did provide cost figures, it would not be of much benefit as each system is unique to the chosen site and costs can vary widely depending on numerous factors. First there is the potential power available at the particular site which dictates if the desired use of that power is practical. Who will design the system? What will be the best equipment and materials available to meet the unique requirements of the most beneficial and practical design? Then there are expenses involved in acquiring water rights which are likely different in each state or country depending on a pro se (self applied) application or hiring lawyer to work on them. Who will do the labor to install the system? Is it your own sweat equity, friends that can help, or hired labor and at what rate? How much time will it take to install? What materials can be accessed? Reused or new pipe, copper or aluminum wire? How long a length of wire? What building(s) will house the equipment? What transformers, batteries, load regulators, power shunts, or utility net metering are available and/or appropriate to the particular site? All of theses factors can add to the costs and it would be naive of me to present a one size fits all price. One must be clear that installing a system is creating an asset which would likely provide power for a lifetime. Can it be financed over time and does that cost make economic sense when compared to running utility lines to an off grid property? Will a local utility be willing to purchase excess power and at what rate? Undertaking a project of this size is not for the faint of heart. It IS a large commitment both financially and in effort and time. My first system (1.5kw) which I own and documented on this channel cost ~$25k and was installed in the mid 90’s. Redesigning and moving the same equipment to a more reliable water source was also documented on my channel and took place between 2013-2015 and added another ~$55k but boosted the useable power by a factor of 5 to 7.5kw. WHEN a project occurs occurs is also a factor governing cost. Inflation impacts everything involved and the fact that I intend these videos to remain on the internet for years to come and provide some clear eyed guidance to people that are serious about their own intentions, this dictates that I not mislead them with cost estimates willynilly. Sorry to go on and on here. I know the system in this video with installation costs were in excess of $100K. Information on the specific Francis Turbine can be located off the placard on the side of unit at 4:25 in the video. You can contact them for current pricing. Thanks for watching and for your comment.

@@mrhydrohead thanks a lot for the detailed reply ...I appreciate your time and effort ... Keep up good work ...

We did that on my system which is the major part of the channel, but this is a system which I don't own and didn't design. I just documented what they did. Thanks for watching

I don't own this system and was merely granted access to document it's installation. I do believe that the owners plan to use the reliable supply of power for heating @7500ft. elevation. Output can range up to ~158kWh/day at full capacity with surges handled up to 10kW. See 4:24 in video for specs. Thanks for watching

This is a system which I don’t own and merely documented. I guess that the cost would be more than $100k although I don’t know the specifics. However I do know that utility power is far far away and the cost of bringing it to the property would be much greater than harnessing the power of the water and you would then be presented monthly bills as well. Thx 🙏 for watching

I don't know the answer to that because I don't own the system and wasn't given access to the budget. You can contact the mfr and get that info. Their contact info is shown on a placard at 4:25 in the video. Thanks for watching!

Sorry I don't know what MPPT is. Could you enlighten me? Thanks for watching!

Not sure where you suggest utilizing a mandrel, but for alignment that might have helped. I don't own the system and didn't design it so I don't have exact numbers on V drop, but because the AC was wild and unregulated it would have been a range depending on Voltage. Heavy gauge aluminum wire was likely a higher loss than copper would have been but I'm sure cost was an issue. Thanks for watching.

This system is an example of low head/high flow and is potentially producing up to 6kw or 144kWh per day which is 4+ times what a typical American house uses on average. I don’t own this system so I don’t have specific numbers but that is the potential of the system. Thx 🙏 for watching.

Cost certainly. But also simpler charge control, wider operating range and longer life. There's no need for light weight or even to be incredibly compact in an application like this. AGM are hard at work in fork lifts everywhere everyday. I'd imagine easy replacement _if_ something were ever to go wrong has to play into it.

I didn't design and I don't own the property. My system in Colorado is straight AC, so I'm no expert on batteries. Lead acid batteries have an established recycling path as well. There are other discussions of choice of batteries in this comments section as well. Thanks for watching!

@@mrhydrohead LiFePO4 just seemed like the logical choice to me (as someone who does work with battery systems, but not hydro). They have a much longer lifespan than any lead acid type battery that I am aware of (sometimes in excess of 15-20 years), can use standard lead acid charging systems (though some form of balancing between cells/packs should be added), are extremely stable and relatively fault tolerant, but are a lot more expensive than any lead acid type pack (though are actually cheaper in the long run due to how long they can last). I wasn't sure if cost was the issue, building codes/permits where you are located, or something as simple as preference. Thanks for the reply!

Ken the designer said: "The Francis turbine required a battery based inverter because the system is off grid. There is plenty of power from the turbine and the batteries would rarely cycle. I used AGM batteries because they are designed for that purpose - remain full most of the time. Lithium batteries are far more expensive and don’t justify the expense as the batteries are simply a requirement for off-grid." Personally, I don't know about comparative costs because my system is straight AC, but I trust his information.

​@@mrhydrohead The mention of "...remain full most of the time" is a great clarification! I did not think of that factor. It isn't like solar or wind where the power input can vary greatly and often dip below the demand for hours or even days on end; hydro is much more consistent around the clock. The AGM batteries rarely being cycled at all will significantly increase their lifespan. I'd still wager that a proper LiFePO4 pack would outlast any lead-acid based pack, but the large up-front cost savings of lead-acid may just meet or exceed the long-term cost savings of LiFePO4, even with replacing the AGM batteries. That is as long as the AGM cells are maintained and don't fail prematurely.

At 4:25 in part 2 the design parameters show 6.6 kW. I don’t own it so I can’t report what the actual performance over time is. But it’s impressive to see that output with so little head pressure. Thx for watching

Not sure what you have in mind, but email me MrHydrohead@gmail.com

This isn’t MY system as I only documented the project and don’t own it. Our Pelton system in the first 25+ videos on my channel is straight AC with a load controller that dumps excess power into resistive heat loads. I didn't want the pain of dealing with batteries when I did the first install in 1997 and haven't regretted that choice. Take a look at parts 20-1,-2,-3 on this channel for a synopsis of the system. A playlist for those is here: kzfaq.info/sun/PLtTypVpmDd-vkT9bJQkXw4I1t0e_4jMYA Thanks for watching.

@@mrhydrohead Awesome!!! Thank you so much for the answer!! I was starting to think no one had done it.

@@JeepD Sorry for the slow reply. Been busy with holidays and just today went about catching up. Again, thanks for watching.

I don’t own this particular system and only documented it. With the costs you list I do expect it went over $100k. But it is beyond the reach of the grid, so it probably would have cost a fortune to bring power in. The system I own shown in the majority of videos on my channel made great sense in ‘96 being 7 miles from the grid. It continues to provide abundant reliable power now up to 511+ megawatts since installation and a joy to live with. Independence factor does rule! Thanks for watching

The system is capable of up to 6.6kw so that is a great deal of power yielding up to ~158kWh/day (24x6.6). But this system is fully off grid so there are no lines to the utility. Thanks for watching 😉

Interesting. I didn't know that. Thanks for sharing the info.

I wish I had the depth of knowledge about water law in different states. I might then be able to make that sort of video. I am not shocked and understand that often there are vested interests that do not want water rights to be adjudicated. Diverting water is a nonconsumptive use of the water, and to some small extent prevents evaporation from occurring with water openly flowing. Finding a local installer may be of some help in terms of an efficient means of learning the laws in a particular area. Sorry that I don’t have the depth of experience with water law in any state other than Colorado. I do hope that you can find a property which will meet your needs. Best of luck and thanks for watching.

At 4:25 in the video there is a placard on the turbine which shows the rating of the unit to be 6.6kw and also has contact information for the mfg. As with all hydro systems, the output is dependent on the amount of water available and that supply fluctuates depending on seasonal and climatic changes. Thanks for watching 🙏🏼

@@mrhydrohead Thanks for the response- that's a pretty good top end!

Yes! There is a much greater availability of mfrs & designs today then when I started out in 1996.