Pardon me for asking this twice on the same video, but does anyone know what the name of the song that starts at 1:42 and goes through to 1:51 is?

Well, what's the theory?

Red hit us with those Actaeon-Orion conspiracy theories

to add to that, what was the song at 2:51 :D

0:22 that shade u threw at jason caught me off guard and i almost died lol

Poor puppers did nothing wrong.

@billy weed aside from you know killing him...

@@omarsalem1219 they were hunting dogs and he was a deer! They're the goodest bois!

Autonoe and Aristaios had a son, Actaion, who was brought up by Cheiron to be a hunter and was later devoured on Cithairon by his own dogs. According to Acousilaos, he met such a death because Zeus was angry with him for courting Semele, but most authors ascribe it to the fact that he saw Artemis bathing. The goddess, they say, transformed him instantly into a deer and drove his pack of fifty dogs into a frenzy, causing them to devour him without recognizing who he was. Once he was dead, the dogs searched for their master, howling all the while, until their search brought them to the cave of Cheiron, who made an image of Actaion, which brought their grief to an end

@@strayyato1773 I also watched the video thank you

I want a modern retelling of the story where Artemis was willing to spare Actaeon because she deemed he made an honest mistake but then hears him refer to them as bonkhonagahoogs and decides he needs to die

@@archivist_13 "worth it"

@@kairuku6552 Actaeon's final words before being irreversibly turned into a deer.

Why not spare him for the mistake then give him a stag that reflects him as well.

@@archivist_13that just sounds like some frat boy coming across her and acting like a dick after being spared

"Dammit, most of these artists don't even HAVE hounds!"

Oh rule 34 how you ruin everything

not like sapphics are gonna complain

Artemis got Barbara Streisand’ed.

Actaeon won in the end lol

Its like a reverse Hachiko

He lives on inside all of them.

"Poor puppies" Dude they killed somebody.

@@_Opalescence In fairness they didn’t know that the deer was acteon

@@mr.skateandwatch Until he’s fully digested.

Too civilised. Thats Apollo stuff. Ironically.

Sign should be more specific. "Trespassers will be turned into a deer and devoured by their own hounds. If you are unable to afford hounds they will be provided for you by the goddess" That would've sent the message across

The entire “wild” was a warning sign. In Greece it was understood that all wild places belonged to Artemis by default. The idea that specific pools were more sacred than others definitely existed, but ALL pools in the deep woods were sacred. There was a non zero chance of this happening the second you stepped off the path, and as Greek citizens would have all known this, no additional signage was necessary.

That's hilarious

I love this in-depth AC lore

It looks really pretty, too!

Oh yeah i love Diana! She's on my island

😲😲😲 omg, I never REALIZED THIS!!

"Cause of death: Eaten by my own doggos"

As if getting killed by a woman isn't humiliating enough.....

“That Artemass had me Actaeon up.”

@@deadlydingus1138 Take my like and leave

And then a transfer student shows up with even bigger bonkhongahoogas

All I can think is "imagine if there was an 'original story' and his death was completely different in that first version."

A good story has a satisfying ending and apparently all the writers agreed on this one

A good story has a satisfying ending and apparently all the writers agreed on this one

Karma is a bitch.

Maybe all these version happen and it was an running gag that he getting trouble with the gods and gets attacks by hounds

I'm glad I am not the only one to jump the gun like this 😅

This theory is FASCINATING!

@@disillusioned.hermit why thank you. I didn't expect such hight praise. You made my day. :)

Honestly, considering people back then associated certain aspects of nature and life with gods it feels like that may have actually happened. 😅

I was thinking the exact same thing, it really has "you heard about the bloke in the other school" vibes

Okay, but hear me out, it starts with some brat antagonizing a large dog to the point that it rips the skin on his head. Bloody screaming followed by poor doggy running off, entitled parents insist their little Aeolus was just being the most perfect of divine creatures and it was an awful attack by beasts most vile. So things get Spartaned up and soon it's a huge pack of hounds rending an unlucky hunter, who was something of a braggart, into jerky.

The remaining Tartarus denizens in general would be interesting to discuss in fact! Ixion, Tityos, 49 of the 50 Danaides, etc.

Lot of -uses

I have fallan too deep into final fantasy in that the first thought when i saw ixion was, wait why should she talk about the thunder unicorn

@@AlabasterTen The wisdom of Phil.

And that day I shall rejoice

Lesson learned: don't let David Cage write Greek myths. ...Or anything else, either.

It's just a "choose your own adventure" book with a really bad ending, no matter what you choose.

@@Talisguy The only thing David Cage should be let to is his namesake. Dive in a cage. And stay there.

@@Corbomite_Meatballs choose your own devoured by your own hounds adventure

Welcome telltale’s version of Greek myths

*Artist is about to chisel out the curvature of Artemis's cheeks in his art piece Artemis: time to have someone else devoured by his hounds

@@CrownofMischief "Mistress, he doesn't have any-" "STRAYS then!"

CrownofMischief Artemis: *Release the Hounds*

You had more common sense than most of the artists depicting that event, lol

Now I have this image in my head of Artemis sitting in a bath wearing waterlogged robes because the artist wanted to depict her in the bath, but didn't want to risk drawing her naked.

True it’s hilarious

Bro accidentally peeped some honnalonnanonologongas

When does she say that? I can’t find it in the video

@@sirhurricane4350 it’s not out loud, it’s written down

It's written on 3:55

Eh... isn't it plenty cruel to have him eaten by his probably beloved hounds?

“without a lot of the general cruelty…” Um…what?

@@GAPIntoTheGame Compared to other Olympian punishments, a relatively quick (though painful) death is pretty low on the cruelty scale.

It may have been a quicker punishment than usual, but that level of reaction still has the standard effect of making her, like the rest of the gods, seem petty and insecure.

@@GeneralBolas If we're grading on a curve I guess. It's still just as petty of a reason for the punishment though

Actually the saddest one cause of the dogs not knowing where he went

Yea, the dude had it coming, the dogs didn't

Yet another reason why Chiron is one of my favorite figures in Greek mythology!

@@jlancov8890 I mean…did he? It seems like it was just a massive accident.

The thing about the Greek gods is that they were venerated out of necessity (humans looking for any slack this rough world might cut them), but hardly idealized. They were humans dialed up to 11: vain, petty, temperamental, lustful, paranoid--with levels of IDGAF and rationalization to match their cosmic power. Not that the gods didn't have compassion or even respect at times; but mortals were mostly just playthings or pests in their eyes.

Well…there was nothing halfway about this death

@@kazeryu4834 Heh, unfaithful modern adaptation /s

Glad I'm not the only one seeing that.

So the Greek myth inspired that trope. Thats why the girls get super strong, they were being blessed by Artemis.

@@biswasbudhathoki8144 Nah, the trope has a separate origin in Japan. EDIT: Someone asked what exactly and I answered below, should be the fourteenth or fifteenth reply overall. Should mention again up here though, I'm not completely sure I'm right, I just vaguely remember reading something about it.

Excellent MitM reference.

@@HansLemurson First thing that popped into my head.

@@HansLemurson What's MitM?

@@HansLemurson What's MitM?

Malcome in the Middle

No no his dying wish was for his dead body to eaten by wild dogs Diogenes style.

I mean at that point they'd be completely different hounds so...I guess it doesn't hurt as much as it would normally?

Alternate take: He gets turned into a deer but manages to adapt and lives a long happy life as a deer, even finding a mate and having some fawns. Then one day his own hounds (now owned by a relative) find him and eat him cause they couldn’t recognize him.

maybe he got his body devoured by the hounds was a last request, now he can be with his loyal hounds even after death

Well... There's another story about someone seeing Artemis bathing, and here's how it goes: Kid walks into the grotto unknowingly and sees Artemis. Kid apologizes, but Artemis says no man can see her bathe and stay alive. She turns the kid into a girl. The end.

Yeah but the same applies to almost anyone, man or woman, who ever met Zeus. Greek mythology is like that overall, no "karma" just "tough luck buddy". If anything the difference here is that a *woman* stumbling upon Artemis bathing might have been spared.

well, it is the counterexample of the trivilisation of stalking and voyarism often happening in western media where women have basicly no right at all to their own body. Is no all that suprising to me, that the sexrepulsed godess of virginity would not be fond of being creeped on and objectefied . . . maybe it was just an acident and he was about to turn away imidietly and all, but the instinctual reaction of feeling violated and defensive rage are quite understandable to me . . . and people go fucked up by gods for less

By his own hounds

@@Photoloss Well, there is another story where a small child walks in a similar situation, but he pleads for his life and is turned into one of Artemis's Hunters

@@Photoloss Worst thing is, he didn't even really meet Zeus. lol He got killed for flirting with the sidepiece of Zeus, the God of Rape.

This is a really interesting theory.

@@hiromitailor8075 Especially when you remember that Aphrodite was kind of an import of Ishtar.

I have theorized that the original story was obscured by Artemis's transformation from a fertility goddess into a virgin goddess.

Could be….but idk, that’s kinda a loose connection? It’s not a hard idea, “getting turned into something for hubris and killed by your own mates.” The difference in the details (he’s turned into a wolf, nothing like that happens in Acteons myth) makes it suspicious. Still, interesting theory

@@DavidJoh wasn't there a specific cult that did see Artemis as a fertility goddess? Also i seem to recall there are stories of Artemis aiding women in childbirth lending credence that she was at some point related to fertility

Maybe artists just liked having an excuse to depict a little bit of a guy being eaten by hounds and the story itself doesn't have that much of a point. Just a spot of cathartic ultraviolence sculpted into the side of a vase!

Even the ancient Greeks seem to have understood that sometimes, life's just out to kick you in the balls, and then steal your coin purse.

Red did say that one of the tellings specified that just seeing them naked was sacrilege (accident or not) because being virgin was part of their godhood. So, unlucky bastard: yes, but it did say it was crime by default. Kinda like trespassing on a military base even though by pure accident

@@MatthewCSnow Also the way the myths always emphasize Actaeon being a hunter might have another reading, like he went to the lake so he can "hunt" some virgins.

@@MatthewCSnow Well yes, but military bases tend to have fencing and clear signage. This poor bastard had no warnings, just really bad luck going for him.

Bro same

Mood

You'd think someone would put up a sign or something: "Go No Further! Artemis Using Aesop Coriander Seed Body Cleanser Ahead".

Technically you'd have one nickel, the other ones a girl now

@@AmyOnhercomputer At least Sipriotes didn't have to settle an argument between Zeus and Hera whether guys or girls enjoy sex more. Unlike poor Tiresias...

@@AmyOnhercomputer I know, that's a transformation

A similar thing happened with Athena, and she left that guy (Tiresias, specifically) blind.

Nude women are only art if there's an urn in it.

go to schol becase teecher says go to schol? am i circus animel or what? i make yt videes becase thats my dreem. liv my dreem is what i do. thats what i do. hopefooly the videes are good for you deer mer

@@AxxLAfriku *_HOW ARE YOU STILL ALIVE._*

​@@CoralCopperHead People like this a-hole would have Darwin scratching his head and going, "Wha...".

explanation of why this happened varies.

That's brilliant. Get this person a job as a writer for a film adaptation of the myth.

This is surprisingly a great adaptation of the myth.

Damn, that's brilliant

Nothing more satisfying than unifying different tellings into a concise story that hits all the beats and makes sense. Well done 👍

The story feels surprisingly in character for Zeus (the god of one night stands/ spreader of his Divine seed). Your story also provides a concrete reason for some badness to happen. The fact that "future dog Chow" didn't take the hint of I have a boyfriend already.

That hit surprisingly hard.

"It really hasn't" killed me

Ngl, I could see Bulma pulling a mynaid if someone peeked on her bathing . No god like power, just pure anime rage. Girl slapped Beerus TWICE and lived to tell the tale.

Honestly slightly disappointed there wasn't a single Yamcha reference in here. It's low hanging fruit, but it fits sooo well.

Why have you appeared in THIS video, my Mustached Rival???

^^^

Please!

^^

Same!

plheASSSSEEEE

Silly mortal, it's not the responsibility of God(s/dess/desses) to prevent human folly, just deal out swift and excessive punishment for minor infractions. At least he got to feed his doggies one last time instead of say ... being turned into salt for looking at a city.

I don't think bathrooms had doors at that time.

@Charles Hockenbury It's the ancient Greek version of Love Hina, and a thousand other terrible anime. "OH NO, BOOBS!" "YOU PERVERT!" "I'M SORRY, DON'T KILL ME! AIIIEEEEEE!" *She murders him."

Right? You think with all that divine power the god's would have better problem solving skills

@@Alverant to be fair the city was essentially nuked

Same

My thoughts exactly, worded better than I could ever put it

That's a really good analysis.

Welp that's even more silly.

@Hiromi Tailor The artist who created that version knew exactly what she was doing. She simply modified an already existing play. And after looking at who she got to play everyone on opening day...well, the Greeks would be proud of the sculpted hero with the face of a boy and an innocent disregard for modesty. And the Goddess was played by a dancer who can say many things in the way she looks at you. If you were going to cast anyone as Selene in all but name, she'd be the ideal. Might there have been an intentional subversion of who is gazing on who, and the love story meant to find a middle ground between the asexual (Artemis) and the predatory (Selene)?

And then they both were devoured by their hounds

There’s an episode from Olympus Guardian and there’s a small scene where Artemis fell in love with Endymion

That's a shame. As someone who watched a surprisingly high number of ballet presentations due to my sister, these things can be very crowded and full of movement. A scene of a man "running" without moving while a small crowd of shorter people "persue" him, with the music getting faster anf faster as they close in could be sick. Or silly. But possibly sick.

It might, of course, have gone the other way: Actaeon gets re-written as part of the Dionysian family because later authors make the same parallel that you just did.

Yeah, the hitting-on-Semele version gave me a start because in the Bacchae, at least, she's his *aunt.*

@@Teackay Hey, don't hate the player hate the game.😘

I think you mean the peeping Tom treatment? Iirc they're the guy who got eye blind from watching Lady Godiva naked but not sure

According to Wikipedia (so presumably also to its sources) the oldest remaining reference to Peeping Tom (not by name) dates to 1732, some six and a half centuries after Lady Godiva's death, and, in that version, his peeping "cost him his life".

@@whafflete6721 that’s who I mean. Guy was either beaten to death for looking at the naked Godiva or got his eyes ripped out. Or God blinded him. It’s kinda varied

@@rmsgrey again going by a legend here. I don’t know the full accuracy of it

@@rmsgrey I mean, the whole story of Lady Godiva's clothesless ride was also probably made up, so...

Yeah, it’s super sweet!

Seems legit

I heard that this is actually more of Odysseus' cleverness striking again: How do you gracefully tell a princess you were accidentally peeping on her in a way that won't get her to call her guards on you? "Mistake" her for a goddess! You get to make a big show about your sincere apology, while also subtly complimenting her on her beauty. Suddenly you go from vagabond to charmer.

I wouldn't blame him

@@HansLemurson Bruh that level of trickery reminds me of that one piece of media where some guy offers a girl a kiss and gives her the candy when she’s shocked

@@ikoniful3984 Odysseus absolutely either would have come up with that idea himself or taken whoever did come up with that idea as his sidekick

I don't even know how to pronounce those, and I was cracking up. XD

@@AegixDrakan it's a reference to a meme, look up "new anime plot copypasta"

@@AegixDrakan I couldn't pronounce them either. And I did try. 🤣

Same here! Where the hell did Red find the last 2 synonyms!?🤣🤣

He'd be a Lancer if he was in Fate.

"Oh my god, Actaeon got devoured by his own hounds!" "You bastards!"

@@merrittanimation7721 niceeee

I know almost nothing about Fate, but I'm pretty sure he'd be adapted into some kind of deer-girl if that happened.

A deer femboy with common Servant classes as Archer, Lancer, and Avenger NP involves his hounds, each immortalized as phantasmal beasts of some kind By offering up his own flesh, the hounds grow in strength and ferocity; a Master unwisely using this to feed the dogs too much will result in them re-enacting the myth but in exchange letting loose a bunch of loyal monsters each with the strength of a Berserker

Like a joke where the setup changes but the punchline changes the same, Actually makes sense, I mean wrong any god in any way and you'll be dead

"I am eaten by my own hounds" was a common ending to posts on Ancient Greek Tumblr

So in this theory anyone with that name just runs the risk of this death curse?

Maybe Actaeon was less of a name and more like an archetype? Like "someone who was devoured by his own hunting dogs after offending the dogs" is WAY too long of a word compared to "Actaeon" - maybe the same way we use the words "Cuck", "Beta", "Simp", "Incel" etc. ancient Greeks just used the word "Actaeon" to describe such a guy? That's why they share a "name" and some core qualities but can differ in the details.

So kinda like how the central character in most jokes about the Irish is named Paddy, or jokes about Bavarians all being about some guy named Ignatius (kinda, technically speaking, they used the common diminutive nickname form of Ignatius, but the internet overlords won't let me actually type that, I will say, it begins with "N" and ends in "zi" and is two syllables).

So you are saying it is super common for ancient Greek to be eaten by their hounds?

​@@Great_Olaf5 Yeah and there are also modern day examples like how Karen is currently used in American culture, or Kevin in Germany.

Where was that part, may I ask?

@@Elthian it's in the rolling credits bit when Red sings her ukelele songs

Likely made in an attempt to make his death more justified.

There is 0 way you are dumbass enough to cat call deities that always do unpleasant things to you when you see them naked

I feel it often gets notes he wasn’t just unlucky but being very stuoid about it

as a pagan (at least based on what i know) youre right. he’s a hunter, he probably made a sacrifice to Artemis minutes before this incident. he would have known what signs to look for not to mention a deity’s presence (at least from my experience) is hard to miss even from a distance. so yeah he was just an idiot or actively looking for trouble

@@plantlover3741I’m very curious to learn what are the sighs that deity is near by?

frankly... basically the Di-vine series is my guess lol That, or basically the same things in the graffiti at pompeii

*apud nos*

Bold of you to assume they wouldn't get turned into the happy crackhead trio;aka Dionysus,Apollo, & Hermes, shenanigans

Pretty much as they're shown. Remember these were plays and things.

Her theory is basically "Actaeon and Orion are both hunters, depicted as hunting, in relation to Artemis so they are the same!"

I'd like to hear that theory as well!

I would also like to see this conspiracy theory on a cork board like Red did with the Loki threads.

This is now my headcanon lol. Thank you 😌

@@disillusioned.hermit SAME

I like this

Literally the bare minimum

I love this

--I wish those thighs can make me to a stag too--

Interestingly, I read a version of a myth about Aura who described Artemis having a rather womanly body: "Artemis, you only have the name of a virgin maid, because your rounded breasts are full and soft, a woman's breasts like the Paphian, not a man's like Athena, and your cheeks shed a rosy radiance! Well, since you have a body like that desirous goddess, why not be queen of marriage as well as Kythereia (Cytherea) with her wealth of fine hair, and receive a bridegroom into your chamber? If it please you, leave Athena and sleep with Hermes and Ares. If it please you, take up the bow and arrows of the Erotes (Loves), if your passion is so strong for a quiver full of arrows. I ask pardon of your beauty, but I am much better than you. See what a vigorous body I have! Look at Aura's body like a boy's, and her step swifter than Zephyros (the West Wind)! See the muscles upon my arms, look at my breasts, round and unripe, not unlike a woman. You might almost say that yours are swelling with drops of milk! Why are your arms so tender, why are your breasts not round like Aura's, to tell the world themselves of unviolated maidenhood?"

@@Kelaiah01 So, she’s built like Aphrodite and she’s a couple with Athena?

@@9Godslayer I don't know about Artemis being built like Aphrodite (I personally figure that Artemis has an "in between" kind of body; not as voluptuous as Aphrodite, but not as muscular as Athena), but I think the part about "leave Athena and sleep with Hermes and Ares" is more about how Artemis should give up being a virgin. After all, Athena is also known for being a virgin with, as Red pointed out, "no time for Aphrodite's shenanigans." So I doubt she and Artemis were a thing (especially since both goddesses lived in completely different areas; Athena was a city girl while Artemis preferred the wild).

Oof.

“Oh My Gods! They Killed Actaeon!” “You Bastards!”

I remember reading that version of the story in Percy Jackson's Greek Gods and thinking "damn how much of a dumbass do you have to be to go for ARTEMIS of all the gods and humans?" Than I played Hades and now I live in fear of getting devoured by hounds.

He intruded on her privacy. I can. I can blame him.

@Space Cat Hey if you unknowingly open the door and see someone naked in the bathtub is that really your fault or the dumbass who forgot locks existed?

I hope you’re doing well.

Note cards and strings at the ready!

Yeah it'd also be great if they had a series on their KZfaq channel that would fit for that kind of talk

The gods are assholes but staring at the naked body of godess who doesnt want the company of men has its risks also i always thought it was artemis manipulating the dogs to kill him as a deer

Or they were badly trained dogs with a high prey drive.

@@nkbujvytcygvujno6006 Which makes Actaeon fate even funnier.

Or that Ovid had no idea how dog training worked.

@@nkbujvytcygvujno6006 The moral of the story: always train your hunting dogs, or when you accidentally see a goddess's bonkhonagahoogs and get turned into a deer to shut you up, they might chase you down and eat you.

You mean that sexy succubus lady? Yes please. 🤤🤤🤤

*The Morrigan. They are always refered to as 3.

And my favorite vampire 😍

@@CountofBleck Babd, Macha, and Nemain. The triple goddess... holder of secrets, holder of grudges.

@@dallanledford6364 she's a succubus, not a vampire.

I see you ....took me a sec, but you got me.

Oversimplified let’s gooooo

A sophisticated Oversimplified reference? Here's a -tax- applaud for that

"Ahh, Ancient Greece. The sun is shining, the birds are singing, the children are playing in the village square. What a wonderful time to be alive!" "You just saw Artemis naked, aaaand you have been turned into a deer, aaaand you are being eaten by your own hounds." "What an awful time to be alive!"

"Insulting the gods? There's a tax for that"

I dunno. The Greeks had vivid imaginations. There might be an even wilder version out there that we simply haven't discovered yet, or that got scrubbed from the pseudo-canon by moral guardians, or was simply never written down in the first place.

What is the "Aristocrats joke"?

@@kjj26k It’s an off-color joke which usually involves a family or the head of the household going to a talent agent and doing (or simply describing) something typically absolutely horrid as a kind of “act.” Nothing’s off the table and this part is usually ad libbed. Then, when it’s done, the agent asks “what’s this act called,” and the punchline is “The Aristocrats!” It’s basically a setup and punchline you have to provide the midsection to, and is usually pretty dirty.

@@bitchesbrew2315 Ah, thank you for the knowledge.

@@bitchesbrew2315 I finally get that Helsing Ultimate Abridged joke.

that's a really good theory,well done good sir!

It's also true that in ancient Greek and Roman culture having your corpse be eaten by animals (especially by scavengers like crows) was seen as the worst thing that can happen to you after death- burial rites were important, and being eaten denies you that

I can vibe with this.

👏👏👏👏

just adding my personal theory here, but the idea of betrayal/turnabout dismemberment rly does pop up a lot!! red’s first source (euripedes’ bacchae) ends in the same way: the king of thebes doesn’t believe bacchus is a real god, so bacchus tricks him into spying on the maenads. king promptly gets caught and dismembered by the women, including his Mom, who’s enchanted by bacchus into believing she’s killing a lion. the references to actaeon in the bacchae are a parallel to the play’s ending and themes about not pissing off the gods. but they’re also very interesting in that context, because euripides Directly connects the two myths. he refers to the spot near thebes where the maenads kill the king as the “same spot” where actaeon was ripped apart. and both maulings take on a sort of ritual sacrifice-a duped group taking down the one they used to follow, in service of a wild god who was slighted. or their maidens, who were spied upon. and although dionysus himself doesn’t seem to show up in any other tellings, his MOM does!! bc apollodorus cites actaeon as a suitor of semele, who according euripedes, lived IN THEBES. it’s all coming together. SO. my crack theory is this: whatever the original myth of actaeon was, euripedes may have bent it a bit for his narrative and created this connection between dionysus and actaeon. that survived in the popular imagination as the semele version of the myth, which eventually apollodorus recounted as the less-popular offshoot. it’s not impossible that euripedes’ version created some of the variation discussed in the video. (or, if i wanted to go off the deep end, i could wonder how actaeon (ritualistically destroyed by a wild god for his hubris, then tied together in an old play about a pre-Olympian bacchus) may have once been connected with dionysus in a stronger capacity. after all, the god who cursed him isn’t consistent! maybe in the days of his old wine cult in arcadia, Dionysus punished actaeon.) but im no expert of course. all i can say is that he was, for sure, devoured by his own hounds. 😌

Well from the sounds of it, Artemis is fine with women seeing her naked. Unless you're suggesting Red is screwing over all her male viewers to get devoured by hou-

🤣🤣

She’s ace *and* a woman she’s fine.

@@kjl3080 the thing is the public is also seeing the thumbnail...

@@lindenbrock4102 well... i guess we all are going to die by our hounds. Never tought i was going to die that way but okay then.

I mean to be fair Achilles is also remembered for being gay

@@mermaidismyname nah they were just friends... good old pals... really good chums... homies... bros being bros... brothers from different mothers...

Achilles is also remember for his wrath and his relationship with Patroclus, the arrow in the heel thing doesn't even happen in the illiad

@@a-drewg1716 Yo, it ain't gay to kiss your homies goodnight.

You may have missed it, but Red specifically spoke about how the versions where he was only human were followed by a period of time from whence on he always had some kind of deer parts on him to indicate the transformation. There was a transition from him just being a guy who was eaten by dogs to him being a guy that looked like a deer being eaten by his dogs, which is significant to understanding the evolution of the story. Also, depicting a transgression against a god wouldn’t require committing the same transgression in facsimile. They wouldn’t need Artemis to be naked to show that Actaeon made her mad by seeing her naked - they could depict him near a bath house, or a body of water, or fleeing from some image that symbolizes bathing or nudity, and the god he angered could be left as an implication. The fact that Artemis and imagery like I describe also only appears much later in the life of the myth is again very relevant to the evolution of the story. It may not indicate what Red thinks it indicates, but I think she’s right in assuming that if it was an important part of the story it would be depicted visually more often and much earlier

Yes!

I support this inquiry!

Came here to say this!

replying to boost this comment in the algorithm.

Also replying to boost this

I was scrolling just to find this very comment. Now, rise to the top so that we may know.

Thanks, watching Saint Seiya made me wonder what was strange with the spelling.

To be fair, Artemis is also pre-hellenic, being found in linear b texts from Mycenaean Greece. But, you make some good points, regardless.

Makes sense. Especially since the later Athenians would never choose to name a city after a woman, no matter how good her olives were.

@@snowyowl235 language is wild like that lol. I mean, we are translating from a language with a different alphabet. So, some spelling issues are basically guaranteed. Also, Saint Seiya is not a very reliable source for basically anything. They really butchered the mythology, as well as just being very polarizing in the anime community for various reasons.

@@tyrant-den884 lmao I'm almost certain that it was named during the hellenic period, believe it or not. Then again, I could be completely wrong. But, among other things, they did make some of the goddesses virgin, most likely. They did that in order to further their patriarchal agenda. Athena and Artemis, in many ways, stood for what a woman "should be." According to the male greeks, at least. An unmarried, untouched woman, bc you know, men wanted to make sure the goods weren't previously owned, so to speak. Also, literally speaking, since women were essentially livestock, back then. Sad, but true. Marriage and the consummation was a property exchange. Hence a dowry. You were buying another man's daughter. It wouldn't be too out of the question to name a city after a goddess that is structured in a way to further subdue the women by giving an example of what was expected of them.

Artemis flips a coin to decide whether she turns you into a woman or a stag

Thank you for letting us know this existed

The end result does seem to agree that there would be no dysphoria afterward, although half the time it’s because there’s no body.

So long as you've got the right vibe and mindset it'd... probably be fine. Probably.

@Merritt Animation I heard it was because this particular character merely _glimpsed_ Artemis, whereas Actaeon actively gazed/leered at her.

Ayo new transition method just dropped?

W h a t n o w

If I recall correctly, Siproites' fate was different because he was specifically a boy; a child. This is why he got turned into a female which spared his life. Whether Artemis knew he was just a boy (not a man), and fell under as a child which technically was her domain (stretching the goddess of childbirth aspect)- can't really tell. But the main point is that Siproities was a boy (thus young hunter) which saved him from a deathly demise.

Well, he was spared because he hadn't hit puberty and also because he immediately got on his knees begging.

@@mvalthegamer2450 Adding on to what you said Artemis was also a protector of children so killing a male child who just happened to stumble across her bathing is kind of against everything that defines her

This was even funnier to me than usual, because I imagined Acteon approaching Hades' desk still in his Stag form. XD

Hades is probably tired of this lol

@@gabyzz1331 hades has to deal with every mortal killed by a god, this has to be every day for him.

I can imagine that he would be annoyed that so many died because of a certain deity that does not learn from their mistakes.

@@gabyzz1331 "My Dear Niece, Please bathe in a more secluded location. Love, Hades"

She did Amaterasu's.

Too soon 😭

AND YOU DIDN"T PUT IT OUT?

@@patchwork5532 well not with blue there

Ovid and his issues with authority are hilarious when you see all the dumbass ways it has been misinterpreted as pro authority

The Metamorphosis, I'd say, tends to skew its sympathies away from the gods in most of the stories. (Arachne wins the weaving competition against Athena, Medusa is victimized by Poseidon and then transformed into a monster by Athena rather than just being a gorgon, etc.) Red pointed out in another video that Ovid had a fairly contentious relationship with authority, eventually being exiled from Rome by Emperor Augustus, which might have shaped his perception of the powerful. Less "gods punish the prideful and vicious" and more "gods act on their whims and mortals suffer, nothing to do about it ig"

@@wppb50 and Ovid's stories tend to be very slanted against female characters (his Pandora was basically just open the box for lulz because wommin amirte?) so it's probably a mix of anti-authority and his tendency to portray women as evil and irrational

well to be fair I think malicious was added in later. So idk it feels a little strange to act as though him being a victim is a twist of the "real" story.

@@robindaybird that is likely but to be fair I think Artemis doing that is in character with the greek portrayl in general. the gods are all dicks even the women dont think it hurts to highlight that in that specific case. (I do agree that pandora being evil is silly and wrong)

It really is. XD

He'd have to have been deliberately looking for her for it to count.

Your username makes me wonder about how fate Artemis would react to Acteaon

The awkward moment when your sister kills your grandson...

@@jenneacubero1036 Indeed

zeus is married to hera his sister sooooo

@@maxodonnell6092 Yeah, but they are deities and Zeus is Zeus, in their case is less surprising XD

@@Micaerys Hermione and Orestes are first cousins on both sides of their families and they get married

The feminist version