Must LITHIUM BATTERIES be BALANCE CHARGED ? #15

Рет қаралды 227,796

Күн бұрын

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Пікірлер: 483

@ingeborgsvensson4896 5 жыл бұрын

Some years ago I installed an extra 4 kWh battery pack in my 2008 Toyota Prius, it consisted of two packs 24V of 6 LiFePO battery banks in series. The 48V was then converted into 200V and set parallel to the existing battery. After a couple of months the capacity dropped rapidly and the BMP kept moving charge from one cell to another. I decided to take the BMS completely out of the system and within two weeks the cells fully recovered and I got the full capacity back. The problem with a BMS is that it looks at voltage only, not charge. Nice explanation, thanks for the video!

@snafu21 8 жыл бұрын

Clicked play, was interested, and a couple seconds later it had been 13 minutes. Good video

@HentaiNat 8 жыл бұрын

atheist?

@snafu21 8 жыл бұрын

hentai nat Yep Yep

@HentaiNat 8 жыл бұрын

Bro, nice to meet you.

@seansteel3326 7 жыл бұрын

@ Michael Ramey, Exactly the same here.

@esqueue 7 жыл бұрын

Random question. LOL!!!

@gren.hansen478 8 жыл бұрын

Been in electronics a looong time Best explanation I have heard. We are never too clever, or too old to learn.

@makeenibada4753 4 жыл бұрын

Goddamn crystal clear explanation, better than my university professor !!!

@truedepthaquaponics7118 6 жыл бұрын

Yay! Less cost of charging and alot less thinking involved in this aspect now. Very clear, thank you

@MrSurvivalDude 5 жыл бұрын

Haha I love how the video end with your high hopes for the drone to help storytelling and it crashes at first launch. I almost picked myself. Keep up the good work sir you are not only brilliant but entertaining at the same time

@storxusmc 8 жыл бұрын

great video man, there was an article in march version of home power magazine that covered this very nicely, they took 48 cells all manufactured from the same place and on the same day, they then split them into 2 groups, they made packs of 4 cells. on 6 of the packs they installed a very commonly used universal battery balancer on them. then they left the other 6 un-balanced as a pack, then they ran them under loads using the same load over and over to simulate usage on the cells to use up the cycle life of the cells tell the capacity of the cells starts to drop. in the testing they found out that the cells that were hooked up to a battery balancer during its charge cycle reached its 1/2 cell capacity limit 37% faster than the cells left unbalanced, the theory behind this is that when the balancer is balancing the cells its applying a micro load the cell that needs balanced in the pack and when it does this the pack voltage drops and the charger sees this drop in voltage and starts charging the pack over and over tell the cell is considered balanced, these micro loads and charge cycles during the balancing phase takes micro portions off the cell cycle life over time, resulting in that cell wearing out quicker... the only benefit of balancing the pack is to get slightly longer pack life out of a single charge when in use... the more cells you have in a pack that spreads the amp draw reduces your need for balancing, because the cells will stay closer in voltage as the cell capacity increases on the same load over time..

@mrclark10001 7 жыл бұрын

Thats really interesting. Do you have a link to this article? I think for my off grid batter bank I will be going down the route of LiPo, Hobbyking has some great deals right now on some packs and I can build a 1.5kwh 48v ish pack for very cheap. My concern was balancing but I think I will go down the route of a Meanwell variable 1.5kw supply that I can vary by a microcontroller. This will monitor cell / pack voltage and give me complete control. I have balance chargers already so no problem doing a balance charge every 10 cycles perhaps?

@rksg2003 6 жыл бұрын

William link would be a plus and thank you

@SamB-lc9cn 5 жыл бұрын

A link to this would be great

@nostamine2567 4 жыл бұрын

I appreciate the time you put in writing this . It really helps me , you are the best 💪🏽🎰

@dougveit 4 жыл бұрын

Jehu, I love your style my friend and appreciate all that you do and teach. Great thing, please keep it up!

@jimginnyohio 8 жыл бұрын

Great explanation. Most people that complain and criticize never actually do what they are criticizing about. On the other hand, you are speaking from experience! Keep up the great videos!

@bukolaayeni78 6 жыл бұрын

jimginnyohio, Thank you

@Cooldipo 5 жыл бұрын

@@bukolaayeni78 hello Baba, are you in the country? Can you join in a Powerwall project?

@leviahamefula3994 5 жыл бұрын

@@Cooldipo where is this going on? Interested

@bizim_eller 5 жыл бұрын

jimginnyohio, you explained beautifully, I own and operate a restaurant and thank God that I get very few comments coming from those kind.

@Skinniez 8 жыл бұрын

This video is awesome. Thank you for the time and knowledge you put in to this!

@henrywashington3732 5 жыл бұрын

I made a parallel pack of five 18650 cells to run a small 3.5v lamp. I charged 4 of the cells individually to the exact same voltage and forgot to charge the fifth because I wasn't going to use any battery monitor for this pack. I solder all five cells together and leave it sitting there for about an hour. I remember I didn't charge the 5th cell so I disassemble the pack to charge that one cell. To my surprise all 5 cells were exact same voltage 4.1. I know that the 5th cell was 3.8v. I guess those 4 fully charged cells charged that last one to equal them all out.

@MauriatOttolink 7 жыл бұрын

Entertained and highly informed. I enjoy your relaxed, friendly and authoritative style. Makes me feel comfortable heeding what you say and confident to act upon your advice... Thank you.

@charlestatakis9363 8 жыл бұрын

Nicely explained and clearly stated. When most of us recycle all kinds of 18650 cells from old laptop batteries I'd bet most of us worry about charging and discharging them out of recommended voltage ranges. I just use two B6 chargers to manage the individual parallel banks so they are balanced. Since the cells vary wildly I never get them perfectly balanced but as you said, when they discharge at a rate of 2 amps each it doesn't matter.

@giottodiotto1 7 жыл бұрын

EXCELLENT presentation, keep these good vids coming, very informative!

@taylorquimby4004 2 жыл бұрын

I didn't need the long-drawn-out and simplified explanation of why some batteries may need balancing while others do not... but you did such a magnificent job at it that I just continued listening for fun lol 😅👍

@rominhawk3949 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you JehuGarcia; this was a very helpful topic and you did an excellent job of explaining it. Btw; I like your T-shirt JAG35; nice graphics. Is it your creation?

@bobbywarrior1434 8 жыл бұрын

Great video as always Jesus, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience

@billarroo1 5 жыл бұрын

That was very informative, I'm glad u explained it like that. Thanks William. Great Video

@erialettchill 5 жыл бұрын

This is so cool. Great explanation using interesting but relevant side notes and visual

@generalaviationflying6784 8 жыл бұрын

Awesome knowledge man! Love techy nerdy stuff

@bukolaayeni78 6 жыл бұрын

Excellent analysis, keep it up

@SilvisSamitis 8 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the practical demonstration. It helped me to understand it better.

@Nostrildomus 5 жыл бұрын

Dang Jehu I just may have learned something and that is amazing . Thanks mon

@elektron2kim666 Жыл бұрын

Professions are compartmentalized quite much so everything is a larger journey each time we dive in to a subject.

@kaylor87 4 жыл бұрын

What a helpful video, thanks so much Jehu!! You're single-handedly making the DIY battery world a safer place (:

@recepgunoglu4058 4 жыл бұрын

This video is so incredibly smooth. Damn.

@mxcollin95 4 жыл бұрын

Love your channel man. You’re a good teacher. 🤙

@mav29 6 жыл бұрын

♥ thx buddy, you're videos are really great

@TheMarcball 8 жыл бұрын

I finally got your point, Jehu. so it's not so much about perfectly matching cells, it's about designing the whole pack big enough that your discharge rate per cell stays below the discharge rate of the worst performing cell. Now, how do you track that discharge rate cells, by the way ? do you write down how long it takes to discharge from 4.1V to 3.2V ? I guess i can do this with the BTC3100 which tracks mAh and time elapsed during discharge (processing 4 cells separately at 1A "in parallel"). waddyathink ? Thanks amigo. Keep on trucking ! (from France)

@daniellukonis 8 жыл бұрын

Thanks man, this video was very helpful to me.

@boricua1009 6 жыл бұрын

Excellent video, that's why you're "THE BOSS"

@bigviking0001 5 жыл бұрын

This is probably the most informational video I have seen yet on conceptualizing a battery pack for my electric vehicle. Thank you for clarifying many things. My vehicle is powered by two 500 watt, 48V hub motors. The current battery pack consists of 4 Sealed Lead Acid 12 volt batteries. Very heavy and doesn't deliver the range I need. My desire is to build a Life Po battery pack of 14s7p to provide me with 550-720 watt/hours of use. with 98 cells, I was confused about balancing vs. monitoring. Your explanation of power drain was very helpful. Since there is doubt in my mind about many of the Balancers ability to actually balance cells, I think I will stick with not having a BMS. It make further sense as I will not be requiring more than 20 amps of power at any time (most likely 10 amps steady), so the drain should be low compared to the capacity (below 2C if I am correct). Thanks again.

@DanKoen 5 жыл бұрын

I learned something new thank you very much.

@jamesg1204 7 жыл бұрын

Great demonstration. Love your channel.

@JohnUllrey 6 жыл бұрын

Very good explanation, thanks!

@MrPir84free 2 жыл бұрын

I flew RC heli's with those sort of LIPO packs and many I knew didn't balance charge EVERY time; we would check the voltages of the individual cells, but often that was a cursory check done towards the end of charging, and /or as part of pre-flight. We would preach to new flyers to always balance charge, but that crowd often used the manufacturer's charger which charged thru the balancing leads anyways. However, we often didn't practice what we preached; there were many other factors far more important than balance charging.. In an ideal world, we'd balance charge every pack; but it takes longer, and always bleeds out some power doing so.

@alexrr2009 8 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Keep up the gr8 work.

@JTrained 4 жыл бұрын

This was a helpful item you pointed out, it'll be useful to know the discharge rate of the lowest denominator battery in order to get an EV to run for longer. In student FSAE there is an endurance test which will benefit from this 🙂

@AlvaroGarciaLazaro 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for this video! Now I understand better the use for a BMS :D

@peterwilliamson5953 6 жыл бұрын

thats amazing , i was just thinking about this the other day , good info thanks ..

@akaDavidWebb 8 жыл бұрын

Good video. I learned something. Thank you!

@noweare1 5 жыл бұрын

No shenanigans just excellent information. I like your style, you are very smart. Awesome electric bus you got there too. Thanks

@avid0g 4 жыл бұрын

When charging batteries to 100%, the cell balancing becomes most relevant since outliers will cause overcharging. If the overall regulator stops at 80-90% charging, the cell limits are not reached and balancers would not even activate. This also increases battery life to the greatest extent. LiFePO4 Chemistry is far less sensitive to overcharging (at low currents) and incidentally is very efficient.

@FretsNirvana 6 жыл бұрын

Another great tutorial ...and a good looking tele on that back wall that I can see.....

@NimblyJimbly 8 жыл бұрын

Another great video! Thanks for sharing. Would you mind showing how you figure out what the weakest cell in a group is? Also, in a large pack (or maybe a small one?), is there a standard C rating per cell that you try to stay below during max charge/discharge current to ensure that all cells in the pack will charge evenly? Unrelated, but I'd love to see a follow-up to your bottom-balancing video - one where you demonstrate the process and how it's done. :)

@melodysouljahrootsdubpress5539 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you, that is really informative. Absolutely it's down to application. I'm off grid running solar. I'm over sizing my bank which basically means I don't need to worry about balance and also maximize cycle life as the bank will be charged to no more than 80% and discharge to 25-30% of capacity. Hopefully this might lead to the bank lasting as long as I do. If I need serious power or very long run time, I just ramp up charge voltage and accept deeper discharge cycle. Great video...

@MrSummitville 4 жыл бұрын

Max life = keep the battery temperature stable ...

@quarklan 7 жыл бұрын

Great demo. Really shows the difference what a high load can do to a battery.

@panospapadimitriou3498 Жыл бұрын

flip crashed that drone in the first attempt is so motivating!!!!. unlessit breaks something !!!!!! keep up

@metthewsobol 8 жыл бұрын

Very comprehensive, thanks! :)

@OnurYldrm35 5 жыл бұрын

Perfect explanation man, thanks.🍻

@TheMarcball 8 жыл бұрын

useful, thanks ! Keep on trucking ! (from France)

@MrMaurolandia 8 жыл бұрын

hola como esta. queria saber cual pagina es de confianza para comprar baterías sony. si me puedes recomendar alguna

@skaltura 8 жыл бұрын

Good info right here! This is something no people usually tell you. I've been wondering do you really really have to balance charge all the cells each and everytime.

@alexandreesquenet3736 5 жыл бұрын

Delta in voltage grows as well when getting fully charged or discharged at 90% (I see it on the Winston 200Ah)

@profilm3014 3 жыл бұрын

Good solid into - thanks!

@nickmestas2218 5 жыл бұрын

The absolute hands alltheway down college level clarity. U Rock !

@cvicracer 8 жыл бұрын

Great work bro

@johnnyhayden357 7 жыл бұрын

Great explanation bro cheers for the info

@mitchgordon8199 7 жыл бұрын

I'm back, great vids. I got lost working somewhere.

@rickmarlow9341 4 жыл бұрын

Jehu.....GREAT video , as always ! What year and style ( high windows/vents )is your V-Dub, Samba ?

@samguapo4573 5 жыл бұрын

@jehugarcia if you don't use BMS, what is your methodology again in charging without one? I use a BMS but one time the BMS got busted and my LIFEPO4s got screwed.

@pault5179 7 жыл бұрын

There may be a risk that if even just one cell in a parallel bank develops a significant self-discharge current, it could cause that bank to reach 0% much sooner than the other banks? (and once the voltage plummets, the discharge current would then rapidly reverse charge the empty bank, killing it, even if it wasn't already damaged from the

@gravelydon7072 3 жыл бұрын

Which is why the packs ( 7S ) I am building all cut out at 29.02 Volts. 7 X 4.145 with me charging them at 29 Volts max makes for cool LiPo batteries. At rest, they come in at 28.7 Volts which is 4.1 Volts per cell. Each pack of two parallel cells has a dual BMS board on the pack.

@ncgallagher 8 жыл бұрын

Thank you for explaining this so clearly.

@ncgallagher 8 жыл бұрын

Im trying to build a 48volt 20Ah+ battery. How can I determine how much the motor will draw and the cells supply? And how can I figure out whether it will need balancing or not?

@starpuss 5 жыл бұрын

*Great Video!!!*

@EvanDinelli 4 жыл бұрын

Informative, thank you!

@SeaJay_Oceans 8 жыл бұрын

You are a living inspiration! Thank you for sharing your inventive ideas. :-)

@LegoBeto 7 жыл бұрын

Very informative. Thanks!

@one4stevo 8 жыл бұрын

Well said great video man

@jestronixhanderson9898 5 жыл бұрын

I have run my DIY powerwall for years with no balancing:) they stay balanced enough and every six months or so I'll manually balance them. Cells become unbalanced when you hit their limits all the time, I daily cycle my pack about 50% so lazy cells never get the chance to shift a pack.

@larsltj 4 жыл бұрын

Fantastic video, I'm speechless...

@E-BikingAdventures 4 жыл бұрын

Great video!

@chandrupalaniappan1369 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the information.

@ponkuna 5 жыл бұрын

Hi Jehu, I just joined yesterday and today I opened a battery froma dead laptop and found all 8 cells are in good shape. I made a small battery bank and my led lights are working on that. Thanks for your teaching. Question:- after putting 100 used 18650 cells in a powerwall how to see ballance charging and which battery is stop working aftyer few months?

@justharryjohnson7250 5 жыл бұрын

You say you don't balance the cells, are you using a bms and letting that balance ? Or do you have some way of monitoring you battery health ? I'm looking at making my own pack and dont want to add in more expense or difficulty. If you have covered this already could you please post a link to the video Thanks

@truthseeker6649 5 жыл бұрын

experience is what matters most. thanks !

@P3achJ3lly1233 8 жыл бұрын

makes sense! you're the man.

@chrismartin831 3 жыл бұрын

Best explanation I've heard, good video

@mp180170 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you my friend excellent exclamation really cool video liked and subbed kind regards from the UK 🇬🇧👌🏼

@dreadnot427 6 жыл бұрын

This is a perfect video! Your explanation is clear. I have a question. Your example for uneven discharge rates was batteries wired in series. Does the same principal of discharging a cell to the weakest cell apply to cells wired in parallel? Love what your doing. I am newly subscribed. Thanks

@MarianCobirlie 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for explanation !

@someguyontheinternet- 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your Layman's explanation.

@utadjyo 6 жыл бұрын

hello i have a question for you i just made a battery pack with brand new samsung35E 15s6p with bms . Now in case i wanna charge it without bms can i connect the charger (60v 7 ampere) directly to the discharge cable?

@billyburroo 2 жыл бұрын

thanks for the great video

@maxkielbasa3324 6 жыл бұрын

Best Video Ever! Thankyou.

@pauladams1156 5 жыл бұрын

Love your channel.

@VinsPol247 3 жыл бұрын

Just charged my DIY 13s 4p 48v ebike battery I made without a BMS. This video gave me confidence to try it. Of course I monitored it's progress the entire time. Worked like a charm...Thanks for the info...

@yoyyoy1390 16 күн бұрын

May i know the status of your bike sir without bms?

@nostamine2567 4 жыл бұрын

I love you man , this video has the best explanation on youtube . You are the best 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

@atefamriche9531 3 жыл бұрын

great example demo. best I've seen I wanted to ask you a question: What do you think about charging a 52v 20ah Li-ion battery of an ebike without balancing? my BMS died a couple of days ago and I am debating whether to get a replacement BMS. I know how important it is to stop before low voltages and can do that with a precise monitoring app. I still have my old charger that I was thinking to modify so that each cell gets a maximum 4.1v instead of 4.2v. Thank you in advance for your help

@jedics1 8 жыл бұрын

Good explanation, so I could do a powerwall using the cell log 8, or two of them to check my packs periodically? I think I remember you saying that you dont leave them connected because they ironically unbalance the packs over time?

@BurnabyAlex 8 жыл бұрын

Excellent explanation.

@bobjackson4720 6 жыл бұрын

Is it usually/always necessary to change the charger if you go from Nicad to 18650's if you have approximately the same voltage value. (For battery drill)

@jonjudice1155 4 жыл бұрын

As far as my understanding of batteries go, when you put batteries together they balance themselves take a fully charged battery and connect it to a used one, the full one transfers its energy to the used one until equilibrium is achieved

@MrSummitville 4 жыл бұрын

I would *NEVER* connect a fully charged battery to a discharged battery ...

@veresij_ 4 жыл бұрын

Not in series, thats for sure. But if you do it in parallel they will balance each other out.

@American3510 7 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@steveclark3379 8 жыл бұрын

Good explanation, thanks... :-)

@CrossfitCarlos 5 жыл бұрын

I can't find a Cell Log 8 that is the same as you got there, are there others you recommend, maybe a video on some different types.

@ronniepirtlejr2606 7 жыл бұрын

You explained that pretty good brother. I hope they understood that!

@UmpTSquat 4 жыл бұрын

Jehu, Forgive me for laughing out load at your expense. I watched this video and reached the end where you attempted to launch the drone from your driveway. I saw the thing power up and then flip over. And I thought...'Did I see what I thought I saw? Did one of the propellers launch by itself?' I rolled the video back about 10 seconds and hit play. YEP! A single propeller launched by itself before the drone flipped over. I'm sorry Bubba...but I almost rolled out of my chair because I was laughing so hard!!! I've watch several of your videos since discovering you a few months ago. I have picked up a lot of information from you and your videos. It is great information. I eventually want to build a battery-backup system for my home. But first, I want to build a portable but fairly powerful battery backup system that can run a few decently sized appliances. I am thinking about solar power, and have been watching DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse. Between the 2 of you, I don't think I can go wrong. You both provide insight about power storage from two different perspectives, and it is invaluable. Keep on doing what you are doing Jehu!

@meowzic 4 жыл бұрын

I'm using thunder sky lifep04 3.2 60ah batteries in a 12v solar powered system for an RV. Would I need to balance these?

@drunkramen 8 жыл бұрын

I'd totally make one of those lights if you posted a How To video. Great explanations!

@jehugarcia 8 жыл бұрын

+DrunkRamen coming

@jehugarcia 8 жыл бұрын

+FilmGelenk632 FilmGelenk632 yes

@jehugarcia 8 жыл бұрын

i have no idea what you are doing with your cells, if you are going to use 6000 of them to move a car around you have to balance them once them they will be fine for a few years

@Ganuesthai 7 жыл бұрын

Does Tesla use any kind of BMS for each cell in their cars' batteries? Just curious.

@totelife6443 7 жыл бұрын

DrunkRamen No sir, they dont.

@TheOffgridkid 8 жыл бұрын

Using no BMS with my solar systems lifepo4 batteries, just top balancers & cell meters for some low voltage protection. working great, going on two years now...

@jfbeam 7 жыл бұрын

Unless they are being overcharged, deep cycled, or carrying huge loads, it's generally not necessary to monitor and balance all the time. Once they are all at the same potential, they will tend to stay that way -- until a cell starts to die, which is why one should periodically check the levels across the pack. Cars have an active BMS to do this because no human is supposed to ever see the batteries. (it has to be 100% automatic, 100% of the time.)