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Navigating Faith & Leadership: An Update from IHOPKC

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Doulos Clan

Doulos Clan

Күн бұрын

Join Borin and Ashley as they share heartfelt updates and reflections amidst the recent changes at IHOPKC and the revelations regarding Mike Bickle. This candid discussion delves into their personal journey of faith, the process of corporate repentance, and the importance of personal relationship with the Holy Spirit during times of transition and uncertainty. Witness their commitment to seeking truth and fostering community in the midst of challenges.
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* 🎤 Borin Doulos: Singer-songwriter and composer, podcast host, prayer room staff at IHOPKC, outdoor enthusiast - favorite food: gyros
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Пікірлер: 107
@alivetoride59
@alivetoride59 5 ай бұрын
I attend the prayer room frequently. I have observed a remarkable corporate grief work that is quite healthy. I can’t point to another organization that I know of that has exhibited healthy repentance and sorrow. I feel honored to witness this journey. It’s actually quite beautiful even though it sucks.
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
@alivetoride59 what a wonderful perspective my brother! -Borin
@chrispeterson9277
@chrispeterson9277 5 ай бұрын
Mike Bickle is the one that needs to repent (which literally means go the opposite direction) and be restored. What sin has the cooperate body of IHOPKC done they need to repent from?
@julz789
@julz789 5 ай бұрын
@@chrispeterson9277This is the work of the Body of Christ. One has fallen we all repent on his behalf. I’m confident that true healing is coming, and the future will be bright and glorious. Jesus wins.
@carefulspeech8696
@carefulspeech8696 5 ай бұрын
There are no doubt evil dark forces mobilizing from far and near trying to manipulate, exploit and spin a deceptive narrative that the humbling uplifting glorifying 24 hr Worship room w/ Prayer for one, should be shut down as the proper way to repent ?!? Hello !? The enemies and dark forces alike are celebrating and enjoying their successful victory in this operation.
@rethinkingjesus
@rethinkingjesus 2 ай бұрын
I just have to say that your last sentence: "it is actually quite beautiful even though it sucks" are such beautiful words. My greatest spiritual growth came during my darkest and most painful night of the soul. It was when I surrendered to what is ( or was back then) that the inner storm clouds began to clear and even though my outer world of circumstances was the same my inner world was transformed by surrendering to the Spirit with non judgment. ❤
@servantofmessiah1071
@servantofmessiah1071 5 ай бұрын
I agree with your heart on this issue and that the people whose faith is weak will need to be strenghthened. I think at this point in time, you are there for them. Thank you for sharing.
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
@servantofmessiah1071 He is so faithful to His children!
@rethinkingjesus
@rethinkingjesus 2 ай бұрын
I am so glad I found your channel. I am amazed at your beautiful open heart. You have such a depth of understanding. I love how you put that you are not "in the whirlwind" even though you are experiencing the whirlwind. You articulated the language of my heart so beautifully in this video and your authenticity is so refreshing.
@user-ct2id8xy4e
@user-ct2id8xy4e 5 ай бұрын
I believe there will be amazing fruit, even with the scattering of the sheep starting fires across the nation and the globe with effectial prayer that chanes the culture! Bless you two with the healing balm of Gilead.
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
@user-ct2id8xy4e He will definitely bring about wonderful fruit from this season. Thank you so much! -Borin
@TheJeraleeMaynard
@TheJeraleeMaynard 5 ай бұрын
Yes just like the Acts church. I totally agree...THANK YOU JESUS!!!! Thank you Father for turning around what the enemy meant for evil for our good because we love you Father God!!!
@terryvos1638
@terryvos1638 5 ай бұрын
Thank you for sharing. My view is pretty much the same as you all. We regularly live stream from Alaska and are very grateful for the IHOPKC family. Keep burning.
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
@terryvos1638 amen, thanks so much for the encouragement! Where are you in Alaska? We spent the summer there this past year! -Borin
@terryvos1638
@terryvos1638 5 ай бұрын
I moved from Colorado to Wasilla Alaska in 2018. I absolutely love it here.
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
@terryvos1638 wow, that’s amazing! We spent a bit of time in Palmer/Wasilla several times. I hiked to the top of Lazy Mountain- kicked this med-western butt 🤣 you might be interested in another video of mine titled “God Speaks: A Spirit Led Adventure…” its an amazing story that the Father orchestrated in northern AK! Here is the link: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/q7mHidqpltPOdoE.html -Borin
@terryvos1638
@terryvos1638 5 ай бұрын
Thanks Borin I will check it out.
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
@terryvos1638 awesome, can’t wait to hear what you think! -Borin
@glonadark
@glonadark 5 ай бұрын
Yay! I found you guys! 🎉❤ Jesus is so faithful to lead the willing.
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
@glonadark you did!!! Haha we had to try to figure out it was you 🤣 Isn’t He wonderful!? -Borin
@glonadark
@glonadark 5 ай бұрын
@@doulosclan oh gosh, I left you guessing. Sorry. 😒🤣 Danya
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
@glonadark HAHAHA we just googled your @ and it showed up on IG 🔎🤣
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
Awww we love and miss you!!! -Ashley
@patparker4722
@patparker4722 5 ай бұрын
Thank you for sharing. The tests God brings are so that we can see more clearly our level of faith and maturity and make adjustments. How we respond is crucial. It is time to draw nearer to Him. That is what matters. It seems we often forget God is in control, not we humans. "Unless the Lord builds the house, they labor in vain who build it." God desires a house of prayer for all nations. He is the builder of His temple...whose temple we are. We are to listen and obey, and that walk is wholly individual.
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
Thanks so much for the comment and encouragement, as well as this spot-on insight! Love it! -Borin
@fondamclain4727
@fondamclain4727 5 ай бұрын
How can you ever blame others and the enemy” for this. One person is to blame. The one who molested a 14 year old. The rest is confusing and complicating the issue. You’re saying who are you have a burden for. Do you have a burden for the one that was molested and the others who have come forward. I feel bad for y’all. You have a lot of growing up to do honestly truly I say this in all sincerity you need to wake up and smell the coffee. I am 70 years old. I have been born again since 1972 when I was 19 years old there’s not much I haven’t seen in life and in the body of Christ I know what I’m talking about. I’m not being prideful I’m just being honest trying to help you both.
@carefulspeech8696
@carefulspeech8696 5 ай бұрын
I agree, the 24 hr Worship Room | with Prayer - creating wonderful and humbling inspired songs to the glory of Christ - should Not be blamed for the sins of a former leader of a church. With respect to the local church itself as a whole (including Prayer Room) being accountable and thus repenting for Mike's past immorality and sins?? One beautiful way this blessed 24 hr Worship room could absolutely contribute to the need for the church to mourn and repent, is to yes, kneel down and humbly play again, 24 hrs a day and night, for anyone around the world to join in humbly rejoicing in the Holy Spirit uplifting glorifying praises to our creator God and savior Jesus Christ! Hallelujah. Amen Dear God willing, let this pleasing glorifying 24 hr praise Worship room w/ prayer restart soon it's powerful humbling uplifting song, for the people and children of God to be blessed at any hour of day around this planet. Peace
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
@carefulspeech8696 a wonderful word. Thank you for sharing, and commenting to help spread His light on this channel! And we so appreciate the prayer! -Borin
@tytuscaldwell8917
@tytuscaldwell8917 5 ай бұрын
Such beautiful words of humility, clarity, transparency and faith. I love this...very encouraging. That part about...knowing Jesus intimately for yourself...which makes you stable and grounded...when storms come. All flesh is grass, humans are sadly going to "human"...APART from the Blood of Christ, His mercy and the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit, i know am a wretched, sinful man. I praise God for His recalibration and faithfulness to me, despite my depravity and sin nature. He alone is the Worthy one. Thank you for sharing guys...i can tell you have PURE hearts bc of the work of the Holy Spirit and your PURSUIT OF HIM. Keep being you...alive in Christ... Much love and respect, Tytus 🔥🙏🤗
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for the wonderful comments, and for helping to spread His truth- THE Truth! It’s so great to have you on the channel, blessings! -Borin
@ResurrectionLifeMin
@ResurrectionLifeMin 5 ай бұрын
Thanks for the honest update. I have no doubt Father God will lead you. I think it's important to ask the Father.. Is it possible to stay in a place where the current leadership is under a strong delusion and not be deluded yourselves? And is it sin to partake of supporting a place that I believe is financially compromised? God bless you both. Love your creativity ❤ 🙏
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
@user-ph6el3lw2u thanks so much for the wonderful comment and encouragement. I think that is an important question to ask indeed! The Father has a perspective far beyond any of our own, and if we individually trust His leadership then we will never be steered wrong. -Borin
@lucindareppert9503
@lucindareppert9503 5 ай бұрын
Amen, Great Words birthed in the Spirit of the Lord ❤
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
He is worthy!
@bobchevallier8456
@bobchevallier8456 5 ай бұрын
This for all of us amen
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
Amen and amen!
@abpgrace
@abpgrace 5 ай бұрын
Would love, love, love to hear from Ashley! Please let her speak.
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
Well she has wonderful things to say- subscribe to keep up! We went through a meticulous editing process on this video to cut out the things that we did not want publicly. Ashley was the final check on that, and she cut out most of what she said, as she felt that it was important to simply keep it private with the people we intended to hear it in the first place. In fact, that’s why she opened the video stating that! Believe me, when she wants to speak she certainly does. You can check out our Sip & Sew with Ashley playlist where she exclusively shares on her own. Lots of wonderful and encouraging content- you’d love it, check it out! -Borin
@christianwoudenberg3393
@christianwoudenberg3393 5 ай бұрын
Praying the Fathers love and His heart over you and your family, that you will be in sync with His times and ways.
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
Yes and amen, thank you!
@souzanemayes5670
@souzanemayes5670 5 ай бұрын
You people at I Hop need to PREACH this among Yourselves.
@d.barnes4592
@d.barnes4592 5 ай бұрын
September 30th I had a dream of MB I agree based on what I saw in the dream. It’s on my channel. Loads of dialog in the dream - whole sermons of the ministry of the word of reconciliation vs division strife and every evil work. I woke up grieving in prayer.
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
Thanks so much for sharing. It is a difficult season, but the Father is still leading!
@laurie9993
@laurie9993 5 ай бұрын
EPIC. A perfect communication/Word once again Thank you ❤! Ihop has always sent people out and in * ). Issue not as much MB as internal striving (pain) and urgent need for change * ) My top prayer is for New Leadership, w Covering! while they reconfigure... Do Court/pay legitimate victims, Ihop start to move forward again, better than before ! "Whom Abba loves, He chastises." An initial massive Bummer...but the final yield is fruit that remains **
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
@laurie9993 thank you sister, we so appreciate your encouragement, prayers, and insight! -Borin
@L-ff5kw
@L-ff5kw 5 ай бұрын
Please forgive my blunt comment but the post is steeped in delusion. This man hurt people, children. Please tell yourself the truth. No one is above the law, and no movement is greater than God.
@laurie9993
@laurie9993 5 ай бұрын
@@L-ff5kw I trust that God IS and will deal appropriately w MB and true victims. I also acknowledge Borin's addressing the issue of internal STRIFE/pain within the Ihop authority structure. Have you ever visited Ihop? I lived there and my friends and I knew there was some internal issues... I am grateful this is finally coming to Light. Much correction is painful 💔 but praying breakthrough for this global awesome movement! Peace and thank you for writing 💗 Peace,
@carefulspeech8696
@carefulspeech8696 5 ай бұрын
Dear God, I pray this beloved blessed couple calling for something as simple sounding as a Mold-free home can indeed find a healthier interior home environment for their improved basic daily physical health. I'm personally allergic to mold too, as well as virtually every VOC vapor there is. I know the disruption and negative health effects from such regular exposure. I also thank God for the beautiful humbling inspiring music in praise for Jesus you all produce and perform in your path and walk on this Earth. Your abilities are a gift from God. Selfishly praying thusly, for God to allow those worldly powers and policymakers that be, to restore and restart 24 hr Worship room w/ prayer soon as a pleasing and proper way for any and all to repent and mourn, wherever one is on Earth! Amen. Blessed are the Peacemakers .
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
What a blessing, thank you so much for the wonderful prayers!
@bobchevallier8456
@bobchevallier8456 5 ай бұрын
Its for all of us amen
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
Amen and amen!
@christianwoudenberg3393
@christianwoudenberg3393 5 ай бұрын
When you have been in a system that is publicly exposed for hidden extreme dysfunction, it is normal to feel disoriented, and feel tugs of loyalty or trying to retain whats Godly. He will remain with you as He moves you. The current path that this ministry is on leads not to restoration my friends - trust me as one thats walked through extreme controversies. It is hard not to hold out for the sake of hope. But a lot of what this will look like depends on the grip of the old guard. We are at the tip of the iceberg of exposure, by the time it is done there will be nothing left but to move something new. I say this with grief and mourning, wishing this is not what I see prophetically.
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for the encouragement and the prayers!
@microstandard3094
@microstandard3094 5 ай бұрын
Any man or woman that says ihop KC needs to close is not of God and being deceived by the devil. Since when is not worshiping Gdo the solution?
@rhondachapman7136
@rhondachapman7136 5 ай бұрын
❤ Thank you
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
@rhondachapman thank YOU for watching!
@stephanieboardman7597
@stephanieboardman7597 5 ай бұрын
Absolutely…. You hearing Jesus IS Greater than the prophetic.
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
Amen!
@jessicaanderson1990
@jessicaanderson1990 5 ай бұрын
Hey guys!!! I dont know if you remember me but i was with you in your freshman year at IHOPU. Praying for you all. Sorry to hear about the ick. ❤❤❤
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
Totally remember you!! I still have the mug you gave me 🤣 thanks so much for the prayers and encouragement, hope you’ve been well! -Borin
@54725
@54725 5 ай бұрын
Praying for you both to have an encounter with the true gospel of Jesus Christ and have a biblical perspective of the Triune God. Move away from man made ideologies and false prophecies and teachings from a wrong spirit. It took me a while to understand that I was deceived and a lot of humility to finally admit it. Ask honest question like how would deception look like? Can I be truly deceived and ask the Holy Spirit to expose it. Pray that you will fulfill what the Lord has truly called you to do.
@elizabethvillalobos4504
@elizabethvillalobos4504 5 ай бұрын
I live in alaska. When were you in Alaska?
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
That’s so cool! We were there in July through August last summer! -Borin
@JohnnyJee
@JohnnyJee 5 ай бұрын
How much of the staff has left? Is 24/7 still possible without a major “scale down” in the size of teams?
@judithmiller7308
@judithmiller7308 5 ай бұрын
Ihop posted that 24/7 prayer shifts have been scaled back to 2 daytime shifts.
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
That’s in regards to streamer sets- otherwise, sets continue 24/7 in a devo style with one or two musicians/singers, allowing staff members time to reflect.
@JohnnyJee
@JohnnyJee 5 ай бұрын
@@doulosclan is it “the time to reflect” or are so many musicians leaving that they can’t fill sets like they used to? I’m not assuming anything just curious as someone who spent 10 years of my life there.
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
@JohnnyJee thank you- there are less now than previously, but there’s definitely enough at this point to continue on with full teams albeit with occasional holes. I can’t speak on what the underlying intentions of the leadership’s decision making might have been, but I don’t suspect that it was a matter of lacking manpower. -Borin
@JohnnyJee
@JohnnyJee 5 ай бұрын
@@doulosclan thanks 🙏
@lillisboyer260
@lillisboyer260 5 ай бұрын
First time listening to you. Enjoyed what you both had to share. But the music in background is distracting..
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
@lillisboyer260 thank you so much for the wonderful compliment, as well as the helpful tip! I actually mixed the audio different from how I usually do, and after I put this video out I felt the same- thanks for confirming. We are happy to have you visiting our channel! -Borin
@tlsings55
@tlsings55 5 ай бұрын
On a side note-for the longest time I thought you & Michael Maher were brothers! 🙂
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
@tlhenderson9578 haha we have gotten that a time or two! -Borin
@laurie9993
@laurie9993 5 ай бұрын
No...Michael has smaller eyes and lighter hair? Appreciate both of them tho ❤ !
@tlsings55
@tlsings55 5 ай бұрын
@@laurie9993 - I didn’t say identical, twin brothers. 😂
@laurie9993
@laurie9993 5 ай бұрын
@@tlsings55 How about fraternal twin...you never know 😃
@maryhaviland571
@maryhaviland571 5 ай бұрын
Excellent Word Sweetheart’s! God bless you & keep you!love ❤️ ❤ this email is wrong don’t know why.
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
Thanks Mama Mary♥️♥️♥️ and thank you for all your prayers -Ashley
@zhuangcorp
@zhuangcorp 5 ай бұрын
Do you support a thorough neutral investigation into all cases of abuse at ihopkc?
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
@zhuangcorp thanks for the comment! Before I answer your question, I will ask you one: does our personal opinion in this matter hold any actual value to you? I simply ask because in this video we cover a lot of things that you haven’t referenced, but you are asking a question about something we specifically did not reference… -Borin
@zhuangcorp
@zhuangcorp 5 ай бұрын
@@doulosclan Yes, every staff's voice has value. There are numerous victims of abuse who are crying out for accountability and justice and they are asking for a neutral investigation at ihopkc. The staff at ihopkc (no duh), are the ones who can bring about this step in bringing healing to victims. You talk about corporate repentance...but this would seem to be the most glaringly obvious first step: to give victims what they are asking for to start the healing process.
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
@zhuangcorp @zhuangcorp I appreciate your response and for clarifying! It was important to ask, as I want to be communicable wherever relevant while not also being subject to corporate whims, if that makes sense. To answer your question: We feel that the answer has always been a mutually agreed upon third-party investigation. -Borin
@ronlagerquist9163
@ronlagerquist9163 5 ай бұрын
A humble breath of fresh air. That you both.
@gospelofJIK
@gospelofJIK 5 ай бұрын
prophetically.. *if there is mold in the home, you need to leave.* the mystery is only an opportunity to see the Father reveal Himself. It’s a picture of your spiritual home and your physical home. pray about it.
@treasurehunter-deals9910
@treasurehunter-deals9910 5 ай бұрын
About the mold, I have a question for my own interest. Does Borin have mucus in the back of his throat most or all of the time? I live in an apartment and have had that symptom for a year now. I'm wondering if that could be an indication of mold in the apartment. I'm also extremely tired most of the time.
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
Thanks for the comment! Firstly I’ll say that mold sort of causes different reactions in different people, but that to me sounds like it’s definitely something worth looking into. I’d suggest having it tested. -Borin
@treasurehunter-deals9910
@treasurehunter-deals9910 5 ай бұрын
Thanks for replying. Not able to test or fix, nor is landlord. Can't move, so it's all in God's hands. Praying for you, me and all mold sufferers everywhere.
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
That is a very difficult situation, I am sorry to hear it. I would definitely try to find a way out ASAP- praying for you! -Borin
@dawnbrown2125
@dawnbrown2125 5 ай бұрын
There is a lot of double speak in your statements, This is very typical with in the i hop movement. It is a spirit of error and is often emotional and often brings confusion with under currents of manipulation.
@sbrgm
@sbrgm 5 ай бұрын
That all happened because the wrong Spirit was from the beginning on at work. So, the whole process of the truth coming to light is not the work of the Anti-Christ, but of the Christ, cleansing the bride. Sin must be confessed. And I hope that a lot of the victims (and I don't mean only the molested women, but more or less all of the IHOP participants) see in clarity and learn to distinguish the false and the right Christ: 1 Corinthians 4:6 "Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” " That is the core problem! The hunger for new, fresh revelation, and the elevation of experience over scripture, and being not content to be fed only by the scripture. This whole charismatic "theology" is nothing more than doctrines of daemons. And whoever plays with that, plays with the fire. A fire kindled by the wrath of God. And these kind of things happened more or less to all (ALL!) charismatic leaders - be it sexual immorality or the love of money.
@L-ff5kw
@L-ff5kw 5 ай бұрын
An observation... The prayer room has been elevated as an entity. Please close the doors as it is an idol. The way that room is spoke about by you all at IHOP is kind of gross. Come on you guys... hear what you are saying and see what we all see. I pray that everyone there at IHOP would hear and see what that prayer room is... that so many would lie and deceive to protect it at all cost.
@sheilaboland6285
@sheilaboland6285 5 ай бұрын
Laff- telling us is your idol. Like we care. We read it five billion times already 😮…. Wait another same comment! Oh like wow.
@sheilaboland6285
@sheilaboland6285 5 ай бұрын
Anyway, the prayer room is for God. Not you and ur silly comments.
@dragoongod21
@dragoongod21 5 ай бұрын
If you want to hear from the lord just make up things like Mike bickle did everything that man has taught has been to wrap people around his finger.
@vocalpelican
@vocalpelican 5 ай бұрын
Oh, good grief, Borne! How convoluted and irrelevant can a man be?! Please, for your own sake, and the sake of those that listen to you -- I'm not one of those, BTW, y'all just popped up in my feed -- stop using Christianese and develop a larger vocabulary. Moreover, a "personal relationship" with the Holy Spirit? Seriously?! Where do you see that in Scripture? Nowhere. He points to Jesus. Jesus alone. Never Himself. Ah, so y'all are musicians. Ha! That explains a lot. Get your head out of the clouds. Earth to Borne! But, I must say that the quietness of your wife, and patient expression on her face throughout your rambling, was impressive.
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
@vocalpelican thanks for commenting and helping us with the relevancy issue! As far as the Holy Spirit… “Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?” Fairly personal statement.. “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” That “you” is pretty personal… “But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.” How can He teach us about Jesus if we have no relationship with Him? “In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.” What’s more personally relational than helping an individual pray? “Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven” Sounds like there’s some important distinction between Jesus and the Spirit, and that we’d need to know the Spirit in a very thorough way… “And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever-“ That word Advocate, as I’ve used twice now, is a very personal word. Look into it! And it seems very relational that He will help us AND be WITH US (relationally) forever. “the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him.” Seems like He is being spoken of as Someone to know, and an important Someone at that… “But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.” Oh, then Jesus said that the disciples already KNEW Him! The word for, get this: COMMUNION and FELLOWSHIP. Followed by a statement that we’d know Him even MORE because of the personal proximity He would have after Jesus ascended: WITHIN. “You must be born again… So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” How can someone be birthed by Someone and not KNOW that Someone in an intimate relationship? Just imagine those who have no relationship with their earthly mother… “But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don’t need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know” Sounds very important to know personally the One Who can teach us all things, and lead us into all truth. I could go on, but I will cease. Especially as I would be surprised if you honestly read these statements- particularly the ones that Jesus Himself stated about the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is in fact a unique person with a unique role, and it is paramount to the Christian walk to know Him. For supplementation, read Romans 8, Galatians 3, 4, and 5, 2 Corinthians 3, John 14, 15, 16. I do not care so much as to the personal (and unfoundedly ridiculous) personal attacks, but walking with the Spirit is of paramount and foundational importance to the follower of Jesus. Oh, and one more thing: Jesus explicitly said before dying on the cross, “it is better for you that I go.” What an amazing statement. What could be better than Jesus being here with us? “… because if I do not go, the Holy Spirit will not come”. Truly amazing. -Borin
@vocalpelican
@vocalpelican 5 ай бұрын
@@doulosclan Thank you for your response! And yes, the Scripture does speak of the Holy Spirit, but none -- even the ones you gave and referenced -- tell us we should worship Him. He is part of the Trinity, but His role is to glorify the Son -- the second person of the Trinity. And, as amazing as you think everything that is written about Him is, Jesus is the Lamb that was slain, and unto Him be all glory and honor and praise. Yep, that about sums it up.
@doulosclan
@doulosclan 5 ай бұрын
@vocalpelican well, I will say that in regards to worship, I never said anything.. Jesus never pointed to Himself. In fact, He explicitly stated multiple times that He is utterly dependent on the Father, and the Father is the One Whom Jesus gave glory. The Father gave Jesus the words He would speak. This is a similar function as the Holy Spirit- He did not come in His own authority, and only speaks what is given to Him. Even Jesus will never be supremely over all things, that will remain the Father’s role (1 Cor 15:28). You’re speaking of roles and their importance, but you have to ignore the words of Jesus to lessen the importance of the role of the Spirit. The Spirit is the essence of the New Covenant, because it’s His work alone that completes us in the framework that Jesus paid for on the cross- John 3.
@vocalpelican
@vocalpelican 5 ай бұрын
@@doulosclan You're correct, you never said anything about worshiping the Holy Spirit, what you said was about having a relationship with Him. THAT is what's wrong. As for Jesus, HE is overall, and the father has made him both Lord and Christ. Jesus is the essence of the New testament, not the Holy Spirit. He asked the father to send the Holy spirit to be our helper, not our friend. It's not that He serves us like the angels, but He brings back to our memory what the Lord has said in His Word, and walk in faith according to the will of the Father. I'm glad you plainly came out and said what you believe so that others who are following you will know exactly what you believe and know you're off base. Be warned, however, if you and others continue to pursue that route, although it may appear as a small off at this point, it will become a very big one in very short order.
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