In book she did

the north had already rebelled the moment Ned was thrown into the dungeon.

@@user-br4vx2xq6h Still, exchanging Ned Stark was the wisest option.

Right, his a lot smarter than people give him credit for

Calling out the queen in the betrayal gardens thinking she’ll tuck tail and run was fkn stupid.

Given how much plot armour was needed for Cersei's plan to work, I don't think it was dumb at all.

​@@TheRealm-xu2kl he gave her the plot armor

He made stupid decisions. But his honor was his downfall

Little finger is gonna be double crossed by a pissed off little girl, which is way more embarrassing than falling into an accomplished liar's net. I can't wait to read how Sansa destroys the giant.

The problem was not lack of honor. Cersei's plot was almost brain-dead, and she only succeeded through dumb luck. Lancel was not a reliable co-conspirator, and if Robert had not sent back Barristan and the Hound, the boar would never have got to him. Or if Robert had realized that this was not the wine he was used to. Or if the boar had not wounded him critically. In any of these cases Robert comes back, Ned tells him the truth, and Cersei has no more time to get away.

Also Sansa running to Cersei

Oh it does, do remember that Tywin may have put the fear of god into people, but no one ever actually cared for him. The fact that everyone acted with dishonor meant that every alliance they made was frail, short lived and far worse. Yet, with the exception of the Boltons the entirety of The North, a kingdom of such size that the other six barely match it in size, holds loyalty to them.

@@MagicalMaster "the other six barely match it in size" - only in terms of area, but for what you are saying, population is far more important.

@@TV-ge3uj It just makes the North harder to raid though, that's a defense. The low population and harsh terrain means on a defensive war The North is almost completely barren to the southern folk. You have to go much longer, through rugged, inhospitable terrain for less supplies.

How is Renly or Littlefinger's plan better or less risky than what he did? Why didn't Renly join Neds plan and install the rightful heir by law. He is the master of laws after all. Then he wouldn't have gotten murdered. Maybe if Cersei went along with Neds plan her entire family wouldn't have died horrible deaths. Or if Littlefinger joined Neds plan he would have made his first real friend.

You can't really say he is naive about it. He takes steps to secure the loyalty of the city watch. Also I don't see that allying with Renly is such a great plan. First Renly is a coward and has no clue about how to fight a war. Does Renly still get the loyalty of all of the reach and storm lands when he orchestrated a coup and murdered the royal family. You still have Stannis to contend with. The vale is of uncertain loyalty. You are still surrounded by a bunch of power mad people that wouldn't mind seeing you dead if it advanced their position. Also you should consider that ultimately Renly dies, all the Lannisters die, littlefinger, etc. It's not like they won and Ned lost. At least Ned dies with his morals somewhat intact.

Ned's "mistake" was not acting without reason (being stupid), it was because he acted with a moral compass. So it is not even that LF was smarter than NS, LF just acted free from moral standards. That works too in any comparison to other carachters who "lacked" moral breaks.

I couldn't agree more.

GRRM is not a nihilist. He's a realist about people and power. A nihilist does not despise war. GRRM does. In war and killing, neither honor nor the law has a place. It was forever thus. Martin hasn't finished his story, and may never finish it. But the show ended with the emergence of an elective monarchy, the abandonment of birthright succession and right by conquest, with the ascension of the low born, cripples, bastards, freaks and outcasts. That is not a nihilistic outcome.

Tywin wasn't a short term thinking fool. He was very smart and wise, just didn't care about anyone aside his legacy the way he saw it. He only wanted to control everything and increase power and wealth of him and his house, no matter how cruel it would become. Olenna was no fool either. Nor Robert. He was just a man surrendered to his pain and passions leaving others to do the job. Baelish also looked long-term and was very smart. But he cared only about his rise to power. And in his position destabilising the realm was the only way. Varys and Davos are maybe the only smart characters in the south actively working about long-term welfare of the realms, but their positions were not favourable. Eddard found an out of control hidden mess in the south ready to come out at any moment. He did as well he could his job. But he underestimated Baelish and the need of Renly and Barristan by his side. At least in the show. He could tell Baelish that he would reconsider the proposal to deny Stannis after they deal with Cersei. The same to Renly. And could tell him and Barristan Robert's proposal for Eddard to rule for a short time. Having Loras' men, Renly, Barristan and Baelish at his side he would take the throne for a short period, negotiate with the small council and try to clean the mess. Then he may got the chance put Stannis on the throne as he wanted or he could change his mind and leave it for Joffrey when he comes of age or pass it to Renly. He could play according to the conditions instead of rushing his support to Stannis. Now I'm sure Martin wrote the story differently, but probably he had alternatives that he missed in the books as well. Whether Martin wants to take out such characters 'by force' is not clear to me as I didn't read the books. But the series deviated too much from the books as they even proceeded the story beyond them, so I d rather treat them as 2 different things.

@@angelkar5132 Tywin traded for short term gains in opposition to long term ones. He destroyed two houses that legally had done nothing wrong, but he claimed they were wrong. Do remember, when it comes to the Reigns and Castameres, Tytos had forgiven them. That was supposed to be the end of it. Instead Tywin wipes them out. This sets an insanely dangerous precedent and the moment the fear of the Lannisters wears off they're going to be despised. After all, if being forgiven by the Lannister Lord of the West won't save you from being wiped out by Lannister forces, then why bother trying to earn forgiveness if you've done something they don't like? If rebelling will get you killed, and surrendering will get you killed, you may as well rebel anyways because at least then you have a chance of survival. As Machiavelli states, if one cannot be both feared and loved then it is better to be feared. But one must take care to never be hated. And he is correct in that, there comes a level of fear where you're so scared of something that you can't tolerate it's existence any longer. I wonder how close Tywin was to that? We may never no, for the hate he inspired in others overwhelmed the fear before it could reach critical mass.

@@MagicalMasterCastameres is not a house. It was a castle that was the seat of House Reyne. The Tarbecks were the other offenders that Lord Tywin destroyed. The precedent was that Tywin was not his father who the other 2 houses openly laughed at and called the toothless lion. I don’t remember what Niccolò said about what to do when your subjects are laughing in your face and mocking you but I’m sure he would have agreed that Tytos was contributing to his own demise by allowing it to continue. Tywin was simply the new manager who slacking employees who they worked for. Lol

yeah I don't know about masterfully made, but thank you, I appreciate the support.

@@TheRealm-xu2kl You are welcome, and I enjoy the Game of Thrones series.

Glad you enjoyed it

True, but also literally- soldiers won't fight long without pay, especially if they have families and/or farms they need to go back and take care of.

Cersie was not intelligent. Ned underestimated how much of a moron she was.

She was smart enough to do something, but the problem is her entire plan was to get Robert drunk and hope something happens.

Cersei gets her entire family killed and universally hated by everyone. The Starks ultimately prevail taking the iron throne, and securing the north as an independent kingdom. All of this in large part because Ned was an honorable guy.