Ned: Rhaegar may be your father, but he ain't your daddy.

"The Mountain is Podrick riding on Hot Pie's shoulders." Now THAT's a theory.

"Arya stark killed the night king" Rhaegar: "I've tried so hard and got so far but in the end it doesn't even matter" 😂

"he plunged his sword into her conceiving Jon" absolute poetry

Wish i could see Catelyns face, when she realizes that Jon is not the bastard, but true heir to the iron throne.

why do i care about this more than real history

There's another little piece of evidence toward Jon Snow being Azor Ahai that wasn't mentioned in the video. Part of the prophecy says that Azor Ahai will be born beneath a bleeding star. Ser Arthur Dayne died while protecting Lyanna Stark during Jon Snow's birth. The sigil of house Dayne is a sword and a shooting star, and Ser Arthur Dayne was known as the Sword of the Morning. Ser Arthur Dayne was a star that bled on the day of Jon Snow's birth.

I find Rhaegar Targaryen utterly fascinating. On one hand we have this archetype of the Hero, the Prince, the Philosopher King of Plato almost. On the other, the wretched man who kidnapped a gullible teenager and sunk the Realm in chaos for what? Rhaegar is a man haunted by the ghosts of Dragon Dreams and obtuse prophecies; whose melancholy stops him from becoming the man the realm needs; with no political influence or understanding of who he is and where he is. In another story, he would’ve won the war and taken Lyanna to be his second wife if not his main wife. In another story he would’ve saved the world. But he’s just remembered as a shadowy figure, better than the King and as wretched as him. And the funny thing is, we will never know what went through his head when he decided that The Dragon has Three Heads. Gods, I hate you Rhaegar.

What a brilliant mind George has. This world he created with all its history and characters is incredible.

Bro this is way too complicated for D&D

I've always called Jon the Song of Ice and Fire. Love-making or conception has always been referred to as "making music" and I'd like to think that the romanticism is a metaphor for Rhaegar and Lyanna's love. Jon is their song. A token of their love. The Song of Ice and Fire.

I really want a spin-off where they show the life of Rhaegar

"The things I do for love" could've just as easily been uttered by Rhaegar just before destroying the entirety of Westeros through the consequences of his actions. As Maester Aemon said, "Love is the death of duty".

Rhaegar is probably one of the most interesting characters in the entire show that we only see through a vision for a few seconds. I'd really like to see the story of Roberts rebellion and the events leading up to it play out in a prequel series

While I think the last theory is correct, I am certain Rhaegar didn’t know it. He never thought he was going to die at the Trident as he planned to make changes on his return. Rhaegar likely had prophetic dreams but those are always misinterpreted and cause the person to take actions that cause the prophecy to come true, but not in the way they intended.

"Love is the death of duty." Jon: Chooses duty over love, killing Daenerys. Survives the series and saves the kingdoms from a mad queen. Robb: Chooses love over duty, marrying another when he is promised to Roslin Frey. Dies, gets most of his men killed and his whole cause set back.

"His actions led to Jon, who may be the hero who saves the world." Turns out he's pretty inconsequential and just repeats stuff like "Yur my queen" and "I dunt want it"

D&D really shat on the Prophecy of Azor Ahai and the Long night this season

I just died laughing at 11:58 "if we don't bang, the world will literally end"

Jon even literally said as much in his oath, "I am the sword in the darkness."

"Did I mention I play the harp?" LOL

And after all this it's just arya who ninja-dagger-one-shots the whole white walker army

I don’t see how can anyone possibly see Rheager as a hero. Even if John become an important character in saving the GOT universe in the book, it would basically be a unintended good consequences of a terrible action. Whether Rheager loved Lyanna or not he knew in medieval even eloping with a maiden without the permission of the father/brother was an offense of kidnapping and dishonorable. Brandon’s reaction to his sister’s disappearance was very realistic for that time period. Mad king killing the starks was just final nail in the coffin, Rheager have already dishonored three family (Starks, Martells and Baratheon) there was no way his actions was not going to create chaos.

plot twist: Rhaegar was the prince that was promised but he screwed it all up starting a civil war and getting himself killed trying to fulfill the prophecy instead of letting it play out and being a good king when Westeros needed it the most.

I miss my father - both of them.

imagine Melisandre asking R'hllor a sight of Azor Ahai, and he shows her Jon "what kind of Stannis is this?"

„If we don‘t bang, the world will literally end, and did I mention I play the Harp?“ 😂😂😂

For a character that never appears in the books, Rhaegar is honestly one of my favourite characters

It appears all that was needed was a young girl with a dagger who was able to teleport.

Eddard Stark was the true hero; no one sacrificed as much as he did.

I just remembered this line in the fanfic I read that if Rhaegar wanted a Visenya he should've find a woman with a lot of sisters and not a lot of brothers. I just find it funny 😭

I love these videos. One clarification: you mention Jon rising amidst salt and smoke, beneath a bleeding star. It's worth mentioning that, forget the tears as a metaphor, the tunnels underneath Castle Black are FILLED with salt. The Jon chapters repeatedly go out of their way to talk about how that's the one thing they're not short of, so much so that even as I was reading it, I was thinking of the "salt and smoke" prophecy. My guess is that Jon's resurrection is going to take a LOT longer than it did in the series. The reason is simply story logic. You don't show the readers an impossibly huge wall of ice at the edge of the world to keep impending doom away in Act One without having that wall come crashing down by Act Three. It's Checkhov's Wall; it's GOING to come down, in spectacular fashion. We don't want that to be Jon's fault, now do we? As it kind of was in the show. So Jon spends a year dead for tax reasons, while other idiots run the Night's Watch, bring the wall down, and let the Others come pouring through. THEN you rez Jon to save the day. In fact, I don't think the Others will be stopped until they're south of the Neck. GRRM has made a point of how Moat Cailin can't be defended against an attack from the north, the dead are immune to frog poison, and the swampy terrain of the Neck is no impediment when it's frozen solid (in fact, I think the Freys will get their comeuppance at the hands of the Others, who can likewise freeze the Trident and eliminate the Twins' biggest defensive advantage). If GRRM stems that tide before the Others march into the Southern kingdoms, then you have the same problem they had on the show: that the looming menace of the Others is a nothingburger if the Others aren't shown actually rampaging across Westeros. You want the people of the Reach and the Stormlands wailing that they never should have wasted their armies fighting one another, you want to show those warm lands frozen over and starving. Otherwise, the threat is stopped while it's still largely hypothetical. Having the Others make it that far South gives GRRM a chance to show all those other would-be Azor Ahais throwing themselves at the Others and being beaten. Cersei dithers and bumps off her allies. Stannis tries and fails. King "Aegon", the Mummer's Dragon, tries and fails. The Seven and their High Sparrow fail. Rhyllor and Stannis/Dondarrion fail. People start getting sick of hidden Targaryen pretenders, miraculous resurrections, ruling Queens, and Princes(cesses) Who Were Promised. Jon and Dany become Chosen One number 8 or 9, and nobody believes anymore. Partly because they've been disappointed several times, and partly because people who were inclined to believe are already dead from following some previous Chosen One. The closest thing to a chosen one who gets any traction is Euron the Cthulu-Pirate, who doesn't give a fig about fighting the Others. Anyway, THAT is how things get GRRM-level dark. Dark enough that the one man who can save the day is Jon. And/or Dany. And maybe Arya, too. They emerge at the very end of Winds of Winter, then spend Dream of Spring fighting/resolving the conflict with the Others. Though I don't see how GRRM can fit all that necessary fail into one book.

11:50 Now I'm picturing Chris Hanson busting Rhaegar, "So tell me what you mean by 'Tower of Joy?'

Dude called both his sons Aegon

Every time you said her name, I was hearing Oberyn's voice "ELIA MARTELL". God, It really stuck with me...

Re: Lightbringer - Azor Ahai needed to forge a hero's sword, so he labored for thirty days and thirty nights at the sacred fires of a temple until it was done. However, when he went to temper it in water, the sword broke. [Rhaegar - died in the waters of the River Trident] He was not one to give up easily, so he started over. Azor Ahai took fifty days and fifty nights to make another sword better than the first. To temper it this time, he captured a lion and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered. [Aegon - died when confronting Ser Gregor Clegane representing the lion of House Lannister] The third time, with a heavy heart, for he knew beforehand what he must do to finish the blade, Azor Ahai worked for a hundred days and nights until it was finished. This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa, and asked her to bare her breast. He drove his sword into her living heart, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes. Lightbringer was henceforth always warm to the touch. [Jon - died by being stabbed in the heart, and brought back to life by Melisandre, a Red Priestess of the Lord of Light] The three-headed dragon could be three generations of Targaryen's that had to be killed to fulfil the prophecy.

To add something to this theory, the part about "putting the sword through his beloved wife" could also be interpreted as : by choosing Lyana, Rhaegar betrayed Elia, putting a sword through her heart metaphorically (and then indirectly when she was killed due to his actions)

It’s crazy to think that George rr Martin knows all the answers to this

A lot of people had to die for Jon's birth. Could they be considered a blood sacrifice? I also think that Rhaegar was mad. He just had to wait for his father to die (or overthrow him) and then reign peacefully. Instead he acts rash and throws it all away for a "prophecy". Kind of how King Baelor walks across Westoros to jump into a pit of vipers, thinking the gods will protect him. Mad, I say.

Sad that none of this really meant anything in the end :(

So sad that Jon development was cut off in season 8

Bran:"Why do you think I came all the way here?" Bro you were carried !

The true villain is the bells causing Dani to get sadistic murderer syndrome

To clarify the conclusion - Rhaegar probably wasn't riding to the Trident expecting to die there - he tells Jaime that he plans to call a council after the battle. But it's still plausible that Rhaegar had some general suspicion that his death, and the deaths of his family, might be part of his prophetic destiny - and that this foreknowledge contributed to his melancholy and sense of doom. Or maybe he had no idea and was only in it for his bae Lyanna - "Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman’s name" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

"if we don't bang the world would truly end" worst(best?) pickup line ever

People painting this is a love story irritate me lol. I doubt romance was the main factor of Rhaegar's or Lyanna's actions. Lyanna wanted to escape a betrothal to a loathsome man and Rhaegar took advantage of that cause he wanted his prophecy baby. They're victims of their own actions and Elia, her children and the realm were all collateral damage.

I'm just finding your channel but wanted to give major props for your breakdown videos. By far the best I've seen, keep on keeping on 😎😎

As Jaime Lannister says “you don’t choose who you love”

All this meant nothing in the end...

When it comes to Rhaegar and Lyanna the arguments are either "Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna" or "They met at Harrenhal and fell in love but she didn't want to marry Robert so she ran away with Rhaegar instead" but a point I have only come across a few times was; A young betrothed maiden meets the Prince of the Realm while trying to hide the evidence of something which she knew could get her into serious trouble especially considering his father, although he keeps his promise and her identity safe she can't know whether his word is absolute so whenever he comes calling in secret she answers and they do get to know one another and she divulges her problems and Rhaegar absolutely falls in love with her and Lyanna may as well but she doesn't know what refusing his advances would mean so things keep escalating and it all comes to a head when he says "Come with me" with the the best intentions and plans but what is she supposed to say or do but comply, then word gets to Brandon that she was taken and the rest is history. The point to my rambling was that she went with him willingly but how much free will did she have in making that decision. Until we get an actualy canon timeline and version of events this will always be in the back of my mind but hey I have enough patience to wait on Berserk I can wait for more ASOIAF right? RIGHT???

Getting back into ASOIAF reluctantly with HOTD imminent, and Rhaegar and Lyanna's story was one of the things that fascinated me the most when I was really into the series a few years ago before GOT's ending soured it for me. I thought I had heard everything about this theory but you shed new light on certain angles like the water, lion, wife angle and highlighting Jon's oath that means he himself could be Lightbringer and not just its wielder. I also appreciate you relayed different perspectives about Rhaegar as he's a very polarising figure and a lot of people (like in the series) portray him as either a hero or a villain, even when they know GRRM prefers grey characters. I also loved the clear, concise way you relayed everything. Finally, thanks for noting the potential of the ladies involved and wanting to know more about them, rather than them just being silent wombs and victims. I too want to know more about them. I also wonder if the Maesters Conspiracy theory is real and whether Rhaegar and Lyanna attempted to explain their actions but were foiled by the maesters who saw a chance to finally bring down the Targs. Great job.

Rhaegar at some point during the Roberts Rebellion probably Rhaegar: Also from now on, we’ll be using codenames Rhaegar: You can address Aegon as Aegon One Rhaegar: Elia, codename: Been There Done That Rhaegar: Lyanna is: Currently Doing That Rhaegar: Cersei is: It Happened Once In A Dream Rhaegar: And Jon is... Rhaegar: ...Aegon Two

DID HE SAY HE PLUNGED HIS SWORD INTO HER CONCEIVING JON AHHSHAHHA

When first time saw Rhaegar, i taught it was flashback of Viserys Targaryen😂😅

Great video, love your writing and editing! also really interesting theory haha

"Rhaegar was melancholic, had a sense of doom, and was born in grief." - sounds like Jon Snow/Aegon Targaryen to me. love your theory btw

The thing that confuses me most in this is Lyanna. If she found out that her (and to a much greater extent Rhaegar's) actions led to her father and brother being grotesquely killed by the Mad King, why would she in any way still stay with him? Not only that, but her own brother Ned was now fighting a war against Aerys II, and was in danger everyday of being killed on the battlefield. Either she never found out (Rhaegar purposefully never told her, despite finding out from Gerold Hightower who was there when Rickard and Brandon were killed, which is rape by deception) or she found out but still was kept at the Tower of Joy, perhaps against her will. From the characterization of Lyanna (headstrong, willfull, dedicated tomboy, etc), it would seem that she would've at least attempted an escape, but was prevented by the Kingsguard. Whatever happened, this does not make Rhaegar look good at all. In my opinion, Rhaegar is most definitely not the true hero of Game of Thrones, Ned is, because after all of Rhaegar's bad decisions, Ned made the choice to save an innocent child, raised him right, and set him on the course to be a good person in a world that too often eats them up.

You can see in both theories how Goerge R. R. Martin's writings were inspired by Dune. If Rhaegar is the hero and knows the Song of Ice and Fire ahead of time, then he intentionally brings death to his family to create the Prince that was Promised, humanity's one chance of survival. This parallels with Paul Arteides' son Leto II prophetically knowing the Golden Path, and sacrificing his humanity and intentionally being a brutal dictator to save humanity from extinction so that the Golden Path comes true. Alternatively, if Jon is the hero, Jon Snow saved humankind by sacrificing love and his own humanity. Jon succeeded, making the necessary sacrifices where his father Rhaegar, could not. Much like in Dune, when Paul has the prophetic vision of the Golden Path, but selfishly decides to pass the burden to his son Leto, because he cannot make the necessary sacrifice. Leto transformed himself into a non-human being and became the oppresive dictator the world needs for him to be, succeeding where his father failed.

The review is deep and interesting. I look forward for more

All we need is a 10 season prequel which show case the events which took place before Game of thrones

Masterful work once again, Alt Shift. Really appreciate the time and effort you put forth to make these. Give everyone at ASX the day off after this one!

I love how the thoughts and actions of these characters can have a variety of reasons or interpretations.

Thanks for all the great videos, the best ASOIAF content. Really helps to get through the time till the next book is published. And your voice is amazing, I'd totally make prophecy babies with someone with such a voice :D

You make the best breakdowns. Theres so many KZfaqrs riding on the coattails of show's popularity. Churning out misinformation and nonsense for the sake of views. I just watched a video of a guy that thought needle is Valyrian steel, the Hound is still on Arya's list, and mistook the Flayed Man sigil for the Night's King. In short: we can tell you are a true fan and thank you.

"We just fucked up the whole important brilliant stuff in the books related to azor ahai because it was unexpected" ...

I loved the memory scene of the marriage. I wish we could of seen more from that time. I'm still hoping for a series starting when the mad king took the throne

2:45 I just realized it’s the same theme from Troy. The prince falls in love with a beautiful woman and a man goes to war to get her back.

Ok after this I see why everyone was mad that Arya killed the night king. Now I’m thinking why would they wanna waste this all for nothing for “shock value”

Yeah right. Rhaegar left his original wife and two kids, marry another girl to conceive his third child that meant absolutely nothing in the end. JON AND HIS SIBLINGS (RHAENYS AND AEGON) DESERVED BETTER!! DAMN IT HBO! WHY DO YOU HAVE TO EXILE JON TO THE WALL?? Still so disappointed grrr.

Crazy how deep the world of ice and fire really is. All the connections and tie ins and lore is pretty unbelievable.

I think so much of the brilliance of the Revellion’s story is taken away if it was all Rhaegar’s plan. I think instead he demonstrates how even the most “promising” prince can ruin themselves by falling for prophecy and self obsession. And if he knew what would happen, it’s hard to root for a guy who literally abandoned his wife and kids to die, which doesn’t make sense considering his belief that “the dragon has three heads”.

Crazy to think that years ago I named my cat Rhaegar cause of this show.

Robert didnt start a war to win her back. Brandon Stark went to confront King Aerys and demanded to have Lyanna "back" from Rhaegar. Aerys then imprisoned him and his companions (all lordlings from the north) and sent for their fathers. When they came they we're all executed. Then Aerys ordered Jon Arryn to give him Eddard Stark. Eddard then fled the vale and he, Jon Arryn (Who saw Eddard as a son), Hoster Tully and Robert Baratheon all called their banners to bring down Aerys. So the war didnt happen just because Robert wanted Lyanna, but because Aerys was an imbeccile and the lords of Westeros were tired of him.

this theory was honestly incredible but in the end, the writers were like fuck you Arya kills the night king!

Amazing explanation and ties!

Holy crap, that water, lion and wife analogy is hard to argue.

I am still pissed at the show for that stupid line: "Roberts Rebellion was built on a lie". Yeah sure, Brandon and Rickard Stark were apparently never brutally murdered and Aerys never demanded Neds and Roberts death which caused Jon Arryn to call his banners. Fucking genius writing.

Now that House of the Dragon is out, Rhagears actions remind me of Kings Viserys actions in the series. Fully led by prophecies and dreams, they both sank Westeros in war because of their actions, Viserys naming Rhaenyra his heir and Rhaeger trying to procreate the prince that was promised. Its interesting seeing how the Targeryans destroyed themselves twice because some dream Aegon the Conqueror had hundreds of years ago, not knowing how to fulfill the prophecy and just making horrible decisions.

After seeing Hill's Alive video on Rhaegar being a villain, it's more likely he misinterpreted prophecy like Daeron the Drunk, Daemon Blackfyre II, and Melisandre, and then proceeded to screw over the Seven Kingdoms as a result. Maybe he even thought the ensuing war and death were necessary to birth the Promised Prince, as he was going off the Asshai version of the story, and from being a Targaryen, he thought blood sacrifices was the only way to do magic.

I've missed your videos so much!

Elia 😭😭😭😭 you deserved better

Nicely reasoned and clearly explained.

I love this!! thank you 👏🏼

Danny: Is my campaign of conquest a joke to you?

In interviews, George has talked about how he always wanted to write a story where the grand hero of the story dies or loses at the beginning, and the aftermath of it. Makes sense now...

Fantastic video thank you so much!

Wow, I think I'm going to read Game of Thrones after all this! VERY WELL put together and narrated. I'm Subscribing!!

All of this went to trash cause Arya stark killed the night king.

PLAY THIS AT MY FUNERAL 😭👏🏾

This could have been a spin-off! Very good!

Whoa, the water, lion, love bit blew my mind. Especially Argon's murder by the Lannister's fitting there. 😮

By far one of the best channels on KZfaq that the whole game of thrones community looks forward to his videos

That image of Rhaegar you always use really does look like John Cena in a Silver Wig.

Love it..well stated and read...The mind..The gift..

Last part is just marvelous

It only makes sense that there has to be a new series that covers everything before this series. Money grab or not.

Anybody ever though that the bleeding comet could be Dawn, the sword of Arthur Dayne made from a comet that had a lot of blood on from ‘defending’ Jons birth at the tower of Joy?

Your lightbringer hypothesis is fantastic(al) and beyond what I had gleaned.

Hey , great video The seen and the unseen at play in the life of the one’s that make a difference Exhilarating Thank you