My thoughts are it might actually be less complicated to really learn real warfare. Combat width is such a jank.

The world was so much simpler with 20w/40w. I have to say if the intention was to make divisions more specialized for climates/regions/terrain I dont know if this was the best way to do it.

I'd like to see some Monte Carlo testing for how much impact those penalties actually make. The numbers don't seem particularly bad, compared to having more divisions attacking.

Feel like they want us to make dozens of templates for every terrain type instead of like 3 or 4 that everyone use

seems like a weird direction to go. they seem to want to make bigger divisions better given the changes to support companies but then also discourage them

10/15 width for all purpose infantry (6/1) 20 for city/urban specialised infantry 25 for mountaineers or marsh specialised infantry 35 for tanks

thanks for this work, your spreadsheet is awesome !

That’s the type of videos I like, short and showing exactly what I was looking for. Thanks a lot!🎉

honestly the combat width were probably better before, the only positive thing now is that cities dont have one third as the extra width when you attack from multiple directions which was weird

Thank you, thank you, and thank you - for the patch information in a nutshell!

Quick and to the point. You’ve got yourself a subscriber.

for a 1:31 minute video, I come back to this so often! So packed with info

Me, a China main about to completely ignore this fact:

20 seems to have few penalties while beeing beefer

Thanks for the acclaration with the CWs, I thought they were changed to 82 for plains and other different numbers than the ones you show, but looks like they changed them again later to this numbers. What I was doing until now (BBA, not the original numbers for AAT) was a combo between 27s and 30s, which allowed me to fill most CWs with the fewer penalties in every kind of terrain (except mountains). I will have to remake my spreasheets and see if there is still some good combo, probably a mix of 20s and 30s could be good, as I heavily distrust divisions with less than 20 with.

Something to consider is how many directions you'll typically be attacking from. If you are hitting from 5-6 directions or even 4 they're probably fucked anyway so it matters a lot less than 1-3

Thanks for the video!

Thanks for the video

Thanks for this super great video with actual data backing up your recommendations! You are a God amongst ants ❤ I have watched this 5 times now with many pauses. (Maybe consider giving us a bit more time to read text that flashes on the screen, but on the other hand, the pause button exists for a reason!) As for actual thoughts on the meta changes it seems like the hoi4 devs/designers are leaning into trying to force the player to tailor specific divisons for specific terrain types which seems like too much micro in my opinion, especially with big battle plans in a major over long front lines... Will the battle plan AI optimize unit placement for best terrain combat width use? Doubtful... I would love to see what an optimal space marine division looks like now? Would it be 15w? 20w? 35w? Seems like no matter what it will be one size fits most at best. Also would love to see a 10 or 15w "all-terrain" super fast, super tough armoured division with optimized tank design, support companies, MIOs and nation bonuses. Release the armoured spam divisions!

I really appreciate how constructive this video is. So right now spamming 10s looks like general strategy and then having 35 tanks to breakthrough

Nice vid. I wish i cared about combat width more. I just make my divisions based on vibes. lol

thanks you so much mate

Amazing content Pure Stat

okay but, where can we get that superb combat width calculator? Asking for a friend, of course!

20 still looks decent, I usually don't like to go too low because of the HP leading to higher losses. So I think maybe the go for infantry is 6/1 (15w) or 7/2 (20w)

Combat width is probably not as important as you'd think. The next time you play hoi4, try to be conscious of where it is affecting you negatively (or positively). You will find that it only ever really matters where the province is either heavily defended, or in defensible terrain, which means it favors the defender. So in other words, combat width only matters when you're fighting a superior foe. The solution then, is not to optimize combat width, but to optimize your divisions in general, just like the rest of your war machine. The meta division isn't just good because of combat width; it's a *good* division which has been optimized for combat width.

With every new update about the CW it looks like the smaller the division the better, I'm a bit against smaler=better, cause like just let me make a fat 40W tank division. That is what makes me happy.

0:28 you had 6 chances to spell "Version" correctly...

thanks, alot of information in a 1:30 video

20 width seems pretty solid too, kinda sad they ducked over 21 now, since that was my “favorite” infantry/Art combo. Guess it’s going to be 7 inf 2 art nowadays, instead of 9 inf, 1 art?

what was the thing that u had that told u the penelty for combat witdths?

great vid but what do you recommend for inf? Pre patch I wold just do 21 widths. 9/1

I think that 35w is also good for infantry offensive divisions

2x 36 Width tanks still work pretty well even with penalty

Well, in one of the videos paradox did say that seven twos will be the meta

I like the new 10/15/35 meta now. 10w solid infantry for garrisons, 15w 6 infantry and 1 arty for frontliners, and 35w tanks for pushing. For mountains use 25w mountaineers and arty and you're good to go.

Dunno if it’s any good, but I organize my armies with 24 infantry divisions with 25 width, consisting of 8 infantry and 3 artillery battalions and my tank armies with 14 motorized or mechanized divisions (6 mot/mech infantry, 1 mot or sp artilley) and 10 armored divisions (5 medium tank, 8 mech infantry and 3 sp). Normally I have like 3 25 width infantry armies to cover ground and 2 tank armies with 15/35 width. If a country has sufficient industry I mechanize the entire army except for 1, which is for difficult terrain and consists of 25 width infantry and mountaineers

TLDR: (also notes for me) Port guard: 10w Infantry: 15w (20w?) Mountaineers: 25w Tanks/other offensive divs: 35w

I always used 15 combat width 6/1s for my quick response quality militia, ao i guess thats my army now

I've been using 25 widths. 8/ 3 The stats are better than 15s and 20s, and mountain/marsh terrain always slows me down. The rest are easier to go through.

The intresting question is, did somebody allready made a good combat with calculator for these numbers?

Lo que pasa es que la compañía de ingenieros incrementa a medida que tienes mas batallones en la división. Antes todas las divisiones daban lo mismo teniendo la compañía equipada. Las divisiones de 15 o inferiores son aplastadas por que no tienen nada de atrincheramiento, la de 20 es ligeramente inferior a antes del parche, y 24 es, en mi opinión, increíblemente fuerte en defensa. No suelo usar la infantería para atacar, desconozco su desempeño en ofensiva.

My main infantry unit used to be like this and it worked extremely well before, but now it's not very good, what should I do to improve it with the new meta? 9 infantry 3 artillery 2 anti air Engineer company Field hospital Motorized recon (if I can afford it) Logistics company (when I'm playing germany) Support artillery company Doctrine: modern blitzkrieg HP 235.2 Soft Attack 216.45 Hard Attack 36.35 Air Attack 41.8 Defense 395.48 Breakthrough 74.8 Piercing 13.947 Combat width 29 Hardness 0.0 %

SO....I can't have one inf or tank division who is ok with all terrain?

So how should my template look like now? It feels for me way to small to make 15 width infantry templates but thats how the "meta" is now.

Could someone explain to me why 30 width divisions get penalized when attacking from 4 directions in jungle/forest? The width amount would go evenly into the width of the them as they gain more directions , no?

Question if Fighting in plains,dessert, hills with the width of 70 is it better to make 3 divisions of 23width than a 35width

20w still works just fine - things will average out for the most part. Just enjoy the game divisions between 10 and 36 will be just fine.

Wow, that's a shift. What would you say divisions should look like with these widths?

Why not 10-15 for tanks too though? Genuine question. After all the combat width changes what is the upside of having larger tank divisions as opposed to more tank divisions?

How do you do 35 with tanks? I tried 10 tank brigades with 7 motorized but I got 34

Low width divisions still suffer from the same issue as they always have, terrible HP is a massive drain on manpower, sure for those who only play big nations with 100 million manpower, then there countries that are not majors will have issues, manpower is almost harder to come by then the guns you make. Another issue with low width is the fact that they get stomped hard when they get overwhelmed, whereas a big 40 width could usually hold well against dozens of enemy 30 width, and if they kick one of your 40 width out you reinforce with mass mob instantly, you literally have 2000 - 3000 defence, if you want to play low losses and still defeat Germany without being a cheating toddler, you have to git gud, small width wont win as Netherland against Germany, you have no air superiority, your tanks are ass, but a 40 width mass mob division with fully automatic artillery will slap anything, only downside is you gonna play pingpong with the Germans for a while since they love stacking lots of divisions that attack relentlessly. But now thats a strat not viable, 35 is decent but you cannot fit two of them in a forest without huge penalties, it seems like its just back to 30 width mass mob, stack as much infantry as humanly possible, you are not gonna get your 3000 defences anymore without veterans and stat stacking, what a shame.

Seems like 20 seems pretty solid though?

what width for defense and attack is needed against Germany for France? 15 just fly away from the German?

Is there any way u can share the spreadsheet pls

i think 21 width is pretty good, in my experience standard 9 infantry and 1 art battallion are pretty good

id think no difference 21 7inf 2 art 1 aa still is good meta losing 10 or 5% is nothing

20 still looks very good to me. Most of the situations when it gets too debuffed are rare and honestly I don’t want to completely change how I build divisions beverage’s I’m lazy

And i thought 30 was the way for most attacking units

I use 23 and 35 for 3/2 divs per tile, i dont count jungles and mountains into my math

Lowkey they really need to piss off Divisional combat width and use the Brigades to fill the width instead.

Huh. Everything's a multiple of 10 again. Weird - seems to defeat the whole point of the CW changes in the first place.

Its funny that pdx tried so hard to kill off the 7/2 meta only to bring it back

20 looks okayish.

20 is surprisingly good, 7/2 meta again?

i need template guide as russia

Okay, so 40 width divisions are a thing of the past now?

Hello

I think im gonna stick to 20 widths for defense because 15 widths are just useless in my opinion

My thoughts is I'm stupid... And will make 10 million 10 width leg infantry with artillery line units and AT support

I feel like 30 width would be better than 35, because of forests.

I don't like it. Mainly because with big divisions like 40W even with the penalty you have an advantage over AI because it has no clue how CW works

Can you even make a 35 width?

7/2 is back on the menu boys

wait so i have to make 20 width for both Tanks and Infntry? my dumbass dont know how to make a 35 width tank template

the CW is just cringe imo. juggeling numbers to cuck their AI even more.

Making the game less historical by making good divs the size of BRIGADES, very lame!

This is a game breaking new update, if anything they should be increasing the combat width or at least adding more tiles. Both for historical accuracy and for enjoyment, by mid 1 43’ eith mods such as expert AI or improved mechanics the frontline is almost always deadlock because of improved air production and allocation of resources. Paradox should double the combat width in order to facilitate historically accurate troop numbers, 6 million troops fought at one time on the Easter front while now in hoi it takes less than 3 million to full the combat width. Tanks are also useless because of low supply caused by the stupid, performance draining, troop limiting supply system. The only thing that matters against AI is supply, the aid movements correlate directly with areas of reasonable supply leading to some of the most stupid looking and unrealistic frontlines. Sorry for ranting

they turned hoi4 into a 30 width mod :cry: like no1 asked for this

Date is year, then month and day. Internet is not only in 'Murica, and there is more than just 'Murica. Please, refrain yourself from pushing stupid date „formats“ on the rest of us. Nobody is interested.

20w is back on the menu