The panel on Newsnight Review look at 'Rose', the first episode of the Doctor Who revival in 2005. Bonnie Greer gets it hilariously wrong with her assessment that it won't work due to being "cheap" and that "this won't travel!"
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@IanGettings11 жыл бұрын
Love to hear critics like Greer getting it so wrong - "the toys don't work, the stories are all over the place, they haven't made up their mind who it's for" etc. Ha ha.
@LabradorIndependent2 жыл бұрын
To be fair, that first season did have a sense of tonal inconsistence - mainly because it was their first go at it, and they didn't have any audience reactions to work off. That said, I think it's a triumph.
@peterward22757 жыл бұрын
I disagree with anyone who says its a 'childrens show'. Its a FAMILY show. If it was a kids show it would be on at 4:pm or thereabouts.
@dmaxwell9109013 жыл бұрын
Also, children's shows don't generally have such a high onscreen bodycount.
@paulashe61 Жыл бұрын
Was family show from the beginning. Who is she? Clearly she’s clueless
@apnoakes7 жыл бұрын
If she thinks THIS looks cheap I dread to think what she'd have thought about some of the shows from the 80's.
@dylankirby393522 күн бұрын
Compared to other shows of the time it did look cheap but it’s because it’s a British show of the time and not a big budget American sci fi drama like Lost at the time
@wulfgar674910 жыл бұрын
Doctor Who is far more then just a children's programme. It is now part of our pop culture. If it was kid friendly, it wouldn't be massive as it is now! :)
@2270608 жыл бұрын
+The Infomaniac it was always part of pop culture just never to the level it's at now
@brandonmartin-moore53023 жыл бұрын
It's kid friendly, but for adults as well.
@makaio95783 жыл бұрын
She was so wrong when she said it won’t travel, when it was HIT in other countries
@konradh68938 жыл бұрын
Haha! " This won't travel" no offence to Bonnie Greer but who the Hell is she..? Ten years later Doctor Who is once again a TV phenomenon and could easily have another decade in it yet, if not longer. Meanwhile this Greer is completely unknown to me. If anything hasn't travelled its her XD
@thegentleassassin3 жыл бұрын
never trust a Greer
@lapelcelery423 жыл бұрын
To be fair to her, she was making that claim in the low resolution of a soundbite interview, on the basis of the first episode of a show which didn't really take off worldwide until several years later. She may have ultimately been wrong, but she was being asked to comment with very little information, and with very little scope to elaborate.
@stevenbaxter90993 жыл бұрын
I'm a massive doctor who fan but it took me a while to get into it. It was a slow burner. The first episode does kind of suck to be honest
@harrypainter74723 жыл бұрын
@@thegentleassassin What's wrong with Germaine?
@Yonatan_Max2 жыл бұрын
Everyone else is enjoying themselves but she's not picking up on the social cues
@realnoahsimpson3 жыл бұрын
‘Billie Piper is eyecandy’ 2005 was a different era
@cutthr0atjake3 жыл бұрын
Eye candy for men & women
@realnoahsimpson3 жыл бұрын
16 years ago, but it feels like 4,000 years ago
@Lumibear.3 жыл бұрын
I got slight pangs of nostalgia watching this and remembering what I was doing at the time, the world felt so much more simple and hopeful back then, things have gone pretty bad in the last ten years, and the TV show with it.
@robalexander80654 жыл бұрын
If Bonnie Greer thought NuWho looked cheap, what would she make of Classic Who?
@martinwood7447 жыл бұрын
Nah! It'll never catch on.
@Theeighthdoctor19965 ай бұрын
Bro if it was a family show then why was Jimmy savile's best friend Mary whitehouse trying to get it off the air?
@MatgoStyles4 жыл бұрын
In defence of Bonnie Greer, I don't think New Who really did travel that well at first, and it certainly hit its peak internationally when technology allowed for it to look less cheap. Also, keep in mind that Doctor Who always feels more special when it has naysayers and people that just don't get it, so try not to get so irrationally angry at her.
@PurushaDesa10 жыл бұрын
The small number of times I've watched post-2005 Doctor Who, I've always thought the more expensive it tries to look, the cheaper it seems - and not in a fond nostalgic way but in a dated 90s CGI blockbuster type way. I got the same impression from Spooks in comparison to 24 as well. I just feel the BBC is at its best when the main focus is dialogue over spectacle (and Sherlock works for me). Leave the expensive gloss to the Americans... Having said all that, I fucking love Peter Capaldi!
@tunasandwhich197213 жыл бұрын
Ha Ha This won't travel. Quote of a lifetime
@TheTwillerZone11 жыл бұрын
I never heard of this Greer woman before. Ian Rankin's cool.
@glitchwalker54223 жыл бұрын
"The thing looks really cheap". It might be an unpopular opinion, but I do agree with this. The soft lighting and cheap afternoon soap soundtrack. It's the hardest thing I find with going back to this season and Tennant's first series. Even harder because I love Eccleston's Doctor. It reminds me of CBBC programmes. But also I'll be clear, it kick-started into what it is now. Although I'd love a proper remaster, with an orchestrated soundtrack and some attempt at de-softening scenes with ai upscaling or something like that. In fact I think even just the soundtrack would hugely help.
@dommoore61802 жыл бұрын
see I think the orchestral soundtracks really don't fit Doctor Who at all - they fit what they shown has become since 2005 but don't remotely fit what it had been before 2005 nor what it was in 2005. The synth versions in series 1/2 are much better imo and the tone and stories feel much more like Doctor Who than the fairy tale like, chosen one stories of most of the revival. Tbf series 2 is little more than a rehash of every major plot beat from series 1 and is generally executed more flatly as well as leaning into a love story and god complex for the Doctor both of which would very quickly come to define the ways in which new who is not at all like classic who but it still had a bit of that series 1 style to it and still felt (along with parts of series 3) a lot more in line with the franchise it was reviving than anything that has come since. The cheap look of it included.
@themekon3 жыл бұрын
I loved all doctor who.(though I have stopped watching the latest version on account of it being boring) But the criticisms are fair of the first episode... it’s wasn’t a slam dunk.., it did look a little cheap when compared to big American productions... and It wasn’t perfect.. Us fans were just relieved that it wasn’t terrible.. and we’d wanted new who for so long...we were relieved.. But I don’t think it really hit its stride until the ‘fathers day’ episode...and the series got better and better... the Matt smith ere were far more cinimatic... and the’ murrey gold’ score really peaked with ‘the pandorica suite’... I hope the current mess ‘doctor who’ is in can be fixed... we need some major retcon for the last series... If not.. I see it disappearing again... maybe to be discovered in smother 15 years..
@maygee279911 жыл бұрын
I hate the way Greer sets herself up as being some kind of intellect - as an ex actress she's quite good at bringing the act off, but for people who listen carefully she talks absolute rubbish most of the time. (Off topic: I also hate the way they always bring her in to talk about "black" issues when she wasn't even born here and doesn't really understand what it is to be Black British)
@stevenbaxter90992 жыл бұрын
Be fair she is only going by the first episode and I thought it sucked to when I first saw it. Took me a few episodes to get into doctor who. Now I'm a whovian for life
@CJJC11 жыл бұрын
I like Doctor Who but Greer's comments are appropriate for the first episode and from someone who doesn't have any built-in cultural backstory on the character.
@lapelcelery423 жыл бұрын
I don't agree with her, even on the basis of the first episode alone (except for the questioning of whether new viewers were able to follow the introduction to the universe). But the format of this show didn't really give her the scope to explain the claims she was making. If I'd been able to properly hear her out, I might have agreed more.
@paulashe61 Жыл бұрын
His face??
@Pauldjreadman11 жыл бұрын
Bonnies point is fair enough. First time i had seen this and obviously she looking at it as someone who has never seen it or is not a fan. Not everyone is going to be a fan. Its like thinking everyone is a fan of The Beatles, because they were so big. First time ive seen Ian Rankin on anything, pretty cool guy. I have seen dr who and the new version is fantastic. It could have very easily have gone wrong
@realnoahsimpson3 жыл бұрын
why is the logo the later one? 🤔
@flyhyland3 жыл бұрын
That one was always used as the official logo and for promotional material, but a variant was used in the title sequence until Series 3 when they changed this for the official one.
@theaussiebackflipboy3 жыл бұрын
Clearly Bonnie Greer had no idea what Doctor Who was prior to this interview. Sadly, someone involved in this said "we need someone with no idea of the subject matter to give an "opinion" and she accepted the challenge (probably for the money) and thus this clip was born.
@bonniehudson11 жыл бұрын
I think Bonnie Greer is great!
@caitie2262 жыл бұрын
It's such a myth that budget is everything. So long as you can believe it enough at the start, you'll stay for the stories and characters and entertainment and the effects won't matter anymore. There's plenty of gorgeous things made now with no heart or no taste- suspension of disbelief is a tightrope and a hurdle, but you don't always need budget to make it work.
@mgrimble39753 жыл бұрын
2021 the world's gone to shit and DW is still going hehe.
@jedr19897 жыл бұрын
Well, she was wrong, huh?
@conkrcstf64053 жыл бұрын
His face is beautiful and mobile and that's the most important thing for kids? She's got some bizarre opinions
@anselmtheweird03 жыл бұрын
Oh honey I wish the Doctor had a male companion...
@paulashe61 Жыл бұрын
If you don’t know . Keep quiet your burying your self
@adam2727cc11 жыл бұрын
Greer is probably a hate figure in the fandom by now.
@CybesVybes3 жыл бұрын
Wow - doesn't she look silly now? 🤣 Erm... whoever she is...
@jamiex58422 жыл бұрын
My goodness Bonnies comments here have not aged well 😆
@andrewmwells96063 жыл бұрын
I don't agree with the American woman here, I thought it was great!!
@dmf24753 жыл бұрын
I know it has a huge following overseas but I do wonder whether Americans and other nations really do 'get' Doctor Who, it's just so English and you only have to look at that awful TV Movie from the 90's to realise why that is the reason for it's success and longevity.
@brickwho1013 жыл бұрын
Despite disagreeing on the quality of the TV movie (I do find a lot of joy from it but definitely understand why it’s decisive) but I do agree with you a little. I’ve got some international friends who enjoy it but do view it as a more Star Trek type sci fi series rather than the more intimate moral show that it really is. Which is very interesting. I don’t know what makes something British as such not to sound unpatriotic. But it’s definitely rooted in whatever element makes it so charming for sure. Because it’s more than just action. Which I think is where the movie fell short with
@meridian20002 жыл бұрын
I don't mind classic Doctor Who but I have to say bringing it back to tv in the new millennium is a big mistake, especially for a Saturday night schedule on BBC One. It ruined the fantastic high quality Saturday night schedule of just gameshows such as Jim Davidson's Generation Game, Whatever You Want, Big Break Friends Like These, Dog Eat Dog, The National Lottery Stars, JetSet and Winning Lines, Casualty and Parkinson, only to be replaced by this and another crap show Strictly Come Dancing. It's all thanks to Lorraine Heggessey who ruined saturday nights on BBC One and she will never be forgiven for. Doctor Who should've moved to BBC Two and if I was to become controller of BBC One in the future, my first priority would be to axe this, and Strictly Come Dancing and Michael Mcintyre's big show and replace it with gameshows similar to 2001 and bring back The National Lottery. I would also axe The Graham Norton Show and bring children's programmes back to BBC One where they belong.
@malcolmdrake61373 жыл бұрын
Wow, she really seems to hate it. It's kind of cringy, actually, watching her attempt to shred it, because she doesn't understand it. I thought the panel was comprised of _intelligent_ guests, but attacking something for lack of understanding is more a conservative, non intellectual approach.
@1978rharris3 жыл бұрын
Asking that American lady what she thought of Doctor Who.....not a good idea. Notice she instantly talked about the basic surface details...how it looked, the special effects, pumping money into it. This sort of reaction totally invalidates her opinion.
@pferreira19839 жыл бұрын
Bonnie Greer was absolutely correct in most of her points, these are the complaints Doctor Who fans have even now.
@2270608 жыл бұрын
+P Ferreira No. Those are complaints nit picky hater dr who fans. the show and plot did not look truly cheap until 2010 when the recession hit quite hard. not that that mattered with dr who because who cares if DW looks cheap sometimes. Furthermore, not knowing who it's for is a misunderstanding. the show was and still is written on multiple levels like the best disney films. it has nostagia for old fans, jokes for older non-fan viewers and of course shittons of creative appeal for younger viewers
@pferreira19838 жыл бұрын
227060 I'm happy to have Doctor Who back but thankfully it's got a little better since it started again in 2005. Having said that it still suffers some of the same issues highlighted here.
@2270608 жыл бұрын
It was fine in 2005. It is different now. But different doesn't mean better nor worse. Just different. But again, the issues commented to have suffered are the cheapness when if anything it looks BETTER now than it did in 2005, when again it was 2005 bbc budget tv sci-fi. it was never going to look like Batlestar galactica and that never mattered to Dr Who. The other criticism is that it doesn't know who it's for. Except it does, hence the colossal viewing figures it regularly draws in. There were no other serious criticisms put forward that I can recall from this. In summary, it did not truly suffer validly from the problems highlighted nor does it now.
@pferreira19838 жыл бұрын
227060 Hmmm...if you say so...
@2270608 жыл бұрын
I do say so. Because it happens to be the truth
@PeteC147110 жыл бұрын
Bonnie Greer is right about a lot of what she says. You have to remember she has no history or attachment to the original series and is basing her opinion and review purely on that one single episode. For example she would have no idea about Bad Wolf being the season story arc. She wouldn't know about what would develop into the tedious dross of the Rose/Doctor loving each other. So saying she is wrong based on what happened over the remaining episodes and following seasons is ridiculous. I started watching the show back in 1970 and have seen everything since then and all available stuff from the first two Doctors. For me Doctor Who was must see TV even into my mid-twenties. I would schedule my going out around the show. My friends would meet up at 7pm I would join them later. These days I Sky+ the show and watch it whenever Often a week or more after it's initial broadcast. Depending on what's on the other channels or what is happening I don't care about watching the episode on Christmas Day. When I watched the first episode Rose, I thought childish and silly humour (bin eats Mickey) nothing actually happens. Likely to be OK at best, rubbish at worst. My opinion has been proved correct > for me < and that is sad really, but it is what it is. IMO the show will never be as good as the original because it is trying too hard to be current, it's relying on CGI and SFX too much and is trying to pander to the US and global audience. One of the strengths of the original series was the fact each story were multi-episode. The show built to cliffhangers and most importantly each story had time to tell a story properly because an average 4-parter had a running time of 85-90 minutes, The length of a film (althought they now are closer too 2 hours now) gives the story to develop properly. It gives time for decent characterisation. From the new series the only characters excluding The Doctor and his companions to get any real characterisation are the Silurian and he lady maid (?) and Sontaran butler and River Song.. Coincidence that they are the characters that have had the most screen time owing to appearing in numerous episodes so allowed to develop? The running time of 45-50 minutes approx. has damaged the show. They made it to fit in with the schedules. make it 45 minutes to fit in adverts abroad to get an 60 minute slot. Don't do multi-part stories because people don't always watch every episode and channel hop. I've done this challenge to so many people over the last few years and not one single person has managed to do it unless using very specific stories. Take any story from the original series excluding season 22 (Colin's first series that was in that format) and rewrite it or edit and chop it to fit the 45-50 minute slot and have an cohesive, exciting and character led single episode. The only time they've done it is when they've taken an 2-parter like The Rescue, The Awakening or The King's Demons which needed about 10 minutes removed. (after the recap it's closer to 8-9 minutes. take a 4-parter and they say nope can't do it even if that story isn't great and has obvious padding (The City of Death, Arc of Infinity and Planet of the Spiders) Is the show popular? Yes, does it have substance? No, was it surprising that based on one episode when not much happens and is mainly talking she thought this has no legs. It's not an adventure series, it's not exciting, it's not mysterious (unless you are under 10) She hasn't seen the original series so based on one single first episode said she didn't get it and it's easy to understand why.
@matt-le4dt8 жыл бұрын
utter rubbish
@2270608 жыл бұрын
+PeteC1471 As someone who watched Rose cold the night it came out with zero attachment to older dr who...no she was seriously off the mark. How is the love story tedious again given how it developed the Doctor's character and took him out of the dark place he begins the series in? Is like one of those 'it's wrong for the Doctor to be invovled in a romance story' things which has literally never made sense? I'm not saying she's wrong based upon later episodes, I'm literally saying she's wrong based upon this one singular episode. And frankly like many outside UK viewers I think they are really not grading on the curve when it comes to how 'cheap' a bbc sci-fi series would look in 2005. Put aside it's episode 1 and teething problems are inevitable so you should as a reviewer allow leeway for that, an american tv sci-fi show in prime time will have a lot more money to work with and more cgi companies at their disposal. In england The Mill were the best that could be afforded given the budget, which again is not the size of a us production and shouldn't be measured against that.
@anthonybailey19667 жыл бұрын
PeteC1471 she was wrong about it 'not travelling'....she thought it wouldn't sell abroad....now,12 years later and a worldwide hit.....oh dear,Bonnie!!!
@PeteC14717 жыл бұрын
anthony bailey she was wrong about it not travelling. That was just her opinion and prediction. There are numerous shows that have been axed after one or two seasons that were good and good given the chance could have found an audience.
@2270605 жыл бұрын
@David Blyth Explain with specific examples that dive precisely into objective storytelling standards how precisely it became tedious, how precisely she became unlikable how precisely she became clingy how precisely it was never again believable. . Because if you cant then it means you personally disliked it which isn't the same thing as it actually being bad. The Doctor was shining as a fully developed character before, during and after Rose jackass. The love story began as healing Nine's wounds and then it needed to be paid off thereafter since Rose was still around and still the new audience's 'in' tot he show. It then set up ramifications into series 3 for the Doctor. Just shut the fuck up please