No Spark Diagnostics "Control Testing" Part 1 [a ScannerDanner Premium video]

Рет қаралды 75,439

5 жыл бұрын

This is a ScannerDanner Premium classroom lecture and is part of my Chapter 22 "No Start, No Spark Problems" playlist. www.scannerdanner.com/join-sc...
(click the link above to join my premium channel, there is a 14 day free trial)
In this video I explain how to use the test light, what I am looking for and the variables associated with this type of testing. In part 2 I will be covering the lab scope portion and discussing the variables of using the test light and where it can get you in trouble.
For more information on this topic, I have written a “field manual” called Engine Performance Diagnostics which is available at www.scannerdanner.com as an eBook or paper book.
Want even more diagnostic training? Whether you are a DIY trying to fix your own car, someone looking to become an auto technician, or a current auto technician that wants to get more into diagnostics, subscribe to ScannerDanner Premium www.scannerdanner.com/join-sc... There is a 14 day free trial.
On ScannerDanner Premium I will bring you right into my classroom at Rosedale Technical College. You will find page for page lectures taken right from my book as well as exclusive classroom type case studies. What is so special about these classroom case studies? I pull live problem vehicles directly into my classroom and we troubleshoot them in real time, using and applying the theory and testing procedures we learn during the classroom lectures. There is no better on-line training of how to troubleshoot automotive electrical and electronics systems anywhere!
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC.

Пікірлер: 119

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

The original video is part of my Chapter 22 "No Start No Spark Diagnosis" and is titled: CHAPTER 22 NO START, NO SPARK DIAGNOSIS PART 3. Here is the link for SD Premium subscribers www.scannerdanner.com/scannerdanner-premium-chapters/chapter-22-no-start-no-spark-diagnosis/379-chapter-22-no-start-no-spark-diagnosis-part-3.html It is 78 minutes long. I have broken this video in half and made it two parts for KZfaq and FaceBook. In part 1 of this video, I will be focusing on the test light method. In the second half (part 2 to be uploaded next week), I will be talking about where the test light can get you in trouble and why the lab scope is needed at times.

@michaelpasiuk9332 5 жыл бұрын

Great video. Would be great to see a video that describes how a 4 wire Coil over plug setup(like on VW/Audi VR6 engines) works and then analyzes this system with a test light and/or multi-meter. Specifically speaking when you get a P035# type of code on just one cylinder. There are no misfires recorded but the P035# continues to show up on the same cylinder(even if you swap the coils from adjacent cylinder). It's driving me crazy trying to diagnosis. thx can't wait for Part 2 of this video.

@michaelpasiuk9332 5 жыл бұрын

UPDATE: In case someone has similar issues. The #3 signal wire from the DME to COP was damaged. Resistance was 1 actual vs spec of 0.2. Repaired damaged section and P035 Code is gone and no more misfires.

@michaelr6205 3 жыл бұрын

Impressed, really love how you cut to actual "on car testing" to explain your testing methods. It really helps the information sink in. Great job guys!

@chappy4944 3 жыл бұрын

Sir Paul, your ability, talent and teaching flow is first class, I thank you for the great information that you share with us all, much appreciated. 😊

@wyattoneable 5 жыл бұрын

I've enjoyed the classes and lessons over the years and hope the case studies continue. My understanding has improved immensely, but as a DIY guy it's hard to gain hands on experience so I find myself back to your videos many times as reinforcement. Have a blessed Christmas and a prosperous and healthy 2019.

@Joeelectronicschematicsforauto 4 жыл бұрын

I love how you know electronics and schematics interpretation and explain that the ground is the one that is toggled by the PCM or ECM this is something that is very important to the foundation of fuel injection and your electronics foundation is epic

@ozzstars_cars 5 жыл бұрын

Watching some SD on a rainy Sunday, good stuff. Thanks Paul.

@3dalex13l3 5 жыл бұрын

Awesome video... I am not a mechanic by any means but watching your videos recently save me $1600 by dianosing and changing an ignition coil pack. So thank you Mr. Danner and Xmas to you and your family

@relentlessmechanics1483 5 жыл бұрын

First of all thank you making your videos, they are a goldmine of amazing information. My teachers at the college were great but only thanks to your videos did I have the knowledge I needed to find a shorted cam sensor 5v reference wire that was causing a no start-No communication issue on a Toyota truck in a short timeframe. Now im working with a ford with no power to the injector fuse which is supplied by the ecm as far as I can tell from the diagrams. Going to work tomarrow excited to solve this puzzle. Thanks again and keep up the good work 👍

@bbmd2200 2 жыл бұрын

Dave's question about amp clamp and your response has answered a lot of questions that I had about a short to ground in the control wire. Thank you, Dave, for asking, and thank you Paul for elaborating.

@ScannerDanner 2 жыл бұрын

Glad this helped you my friend. Thank you!

@JoseRamirez-em7zp 5 жыл бұрын

You never stop learning thanks my friend merry Christmas

@RJMaker 5 жыл бұрын

Now that's some teaching for you right there. Thank You!

@shopyard87 5 жыл бұрын

This is what I was looking for....great Paul

@arbez.nation 5 жыл бұрын

Here, as usual. As always, enjoying the video's.

@andrewk778 5 жыл бұрын

You are the best. Thank you for sharing.

@hughvanzyl549 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome. Must watch few times and practice. South Africa

@Pablo_Automotive 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for share your fantastic class Paul is really usefull and ever is good remenber the use of basic tools. Big hug from Spain

@SmittySmithsonite 5 жыл бұрын

"Classic" Paul Danner here - top notch instruction!👍👍 You and your family have a Merry Christmas, and a Happy, Prosperous New Year, Paul! 🍻 God bless.

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

Merry Christmas Smitty!

@xPrototype9x 5 жыл бұрын

I'm going to be coming back to this video for the rest of my life.

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

Awesome! Thanks

@d.d4184 5 жыл бұрын

Another good one thank you.

@mikecont9742 5 жыл бұрын

Invaluable video...

@dawiehechter5159 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks Paul very good stuff. Dawie here from South Africa

@SouthMainAuto 5 жыл бұрын

So what part do I need to put on my car? 🤭

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

Coil, module, ecm, cam and crank sensors. Lol Merry Christmas Eric!

@SmittySmithsonite 5 жыл бұрын

Nice one, Eric ... 🤣🤣

@richardcranium5839 5 жыл бұрын

the part that makes it work

@exponentialhorse 5 жыл бұрын

Flux capacitATOR lol

@throttlebottle5906 5 жыл бұрын

a new car in it's place ;)

@TOMAS-lh4er 5 жыл бұрын

hi just saw this pop up ,had to just say hello, and thanks for your vidios,,god bless you BRO. THOMAS in TUCSON

@saulorozco5787 4 жыл бұрын

Hi thank you Paul, great información, I have this same situation. Help me a lot I’m no mechanic but love to learn specially from you. Already got the book and get enrolled in your Chanel. I’m just little scare to perform all those procedures. Thank you again.

@Joeelectronicschematicsforauto 4 жыл бұрын

Teaching fuel injection is one of the hardest things because you have to have a good foundation of electronics but you are a legend at what you do I'm sure there are a lot of students who graduated working in the field right now from your courses

@medch4193 5 жыл бұрын

good work mister dan thank you

@fixgarage3209 2 жыл бұрын

hi ..it is awesome that i learned English so that u can teaching me in my opinion it is enough reason for me boss .. thanks and go ahead

@101fish9 Жыл бұрын

Thank for showing a page of your book. Now I know. I have to have it.

@ScannerDanner Жыл бұрын

Get the eBook first, if you're not happy with it, I offer a full refund. And if you want to exchange it for paper, we can do that too. Thank you!

@joseorellana7952 5 жыл бұрын

Very goog my friend..ssludos desde El Salvador

@user-io3hw7hx7q 5 жыл бұрын

Awesome thanks

@user-pw8yu7nd7p 5 жыл бұрын

thank you very good video

@SS-U23 5 жыл бұрын

Hi, thank you for the great teaching throughout this video. I think I got the idea of using a test light on the negative or control side of the coil while the test light's wire is connected to ground. I think what I understood was that the positive feed goes through the coil and out of it (test light is on) until the transistor grounds the coil (test light is off). As a result of that, there would be a voltage drop that makes the test light go off momentarily then back on when the transistor goes off. Thank you again. I am really impressed big time with your knowledge and your awesome teaching. I am thinking of buying the book but I do have a few questions about it. God bless you.

@scientist100 5 жыл бұрын

@5:00, you're right, the control wire is only about 3.5-4 volts on and off. This from a 3-wire ignition coil, Nissan Altima 2003 2.5L, I probed at least 3 coils and they all had the same voltage readout from the PCM. It has an initial ramp of 3 to 3.6 volts peak.

@smms1276 5 жыл бұрын

AWSOME 👍 👍

@JasenFromBoston 6 ай бұрын

of course he is right he is a teacher. a professor of automotive electromagnetic control. du mas

@willyck948 5 жыл бұрын

having some (not so much) fun with 92 dodge now and first half I was thinking about the relays😅 Still working on it believe it's the computer because the starter relay had intermittent issues during testing and it gets its signal ground from the computer and other fuel/ignition relays went from no computer signal to faint signal going to try used computer before checking for shorts because it quit running like key was turned off and junk yard computer cost next to nothing fingers crossed. Love the videos by the way learned a lot

@throttlebottle5906 5 жыл бұрын

DODGE, Designed of Deadly Generic Electronics

@stephencook4611 5 жыл бұрын

Hey Dan, Will this work on my model T Ford? Good video.

@dayanordonez6876 5 жыл бұрын

Danner, Diagnosing an 04 Stratus, I have normal wave lengths on the cam and crank sensor, 12 volts @ the coil while cranking for 1 second then it shuts off. I get fuel spray ,so I want to call the ECU but it seems I need to see part 2 of this case study.

@1mouse3 5 жыл бұрын

bad coil with no control can be annoying, its good to test for control with a light to positive and coil disconected as well. I have found before a coat hanger hoding up wire that was shorting it and bad signal like at the end caused by a fired coil. you can get information that will make you not trust your tools.

@markoshkes4923 Жыл бұрын

A truck that starts cold but not after it warms up. Had to put a crankshaft sensor in the truck but still does that. Now, do you have to find out why that sensor went bad or is it something else?

@victorlewis8970 5 жыл бұрын

☆☆☆☆☆ 5s! Thanks for this video!

@richardcranium5839 5 жыл бұрын

i always have more voltage with my test light after dark ????? lol great video

@sthedavid4809 5 жыл бұрын

good info I have a different view on your info three wire. voltage can be viewed when you disconnect ground wire connect test lite to negative thank you SD.

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

what time frame in the video? Thanks!

@byoung9627 5 жыл бұрын

You might want to have a list on premium channel of “book changes and additions “ for us with a paper copy. Like the “see case study on page 20”

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

It's not in the eBook either. Both the paper book and eBook are the same as far as updates. I'm not updating either one anymore. Any new content will be in the form of another book in the future. But great suggestion! Thanks

@rogelionunez8714 3 жыл бұрын

Hi, nice video. If my test light do not flickers at a constant rate, with " pauses", should I suspect damaged wire at the connector? I have continuity in control wire, between pcm and coil female conector, but I feel some " soft spots" in the connector side, like a broken wire. I had the same with some coils in the past, and solved replacing the coil female connector. Expedition 2001 COP wiring.

@ScannerDanner 3 жыл бұрын

These coils are known for shorting and cooking the engine computer driver kzfaq.info/get/bejne/r5qiaLKUrbSZfJs.html

@DollarbillDollarbill 5 жыл бұрын

Good instincts .Very nice. See what you mean by needing unplug coil!!!. Tell students to highlight that. It's impossible to get a chart perfect when things are constantly changing. Highlight unplug coil. It's there but make it stand out if you have the study guide chart.

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

For sure! And I have over many different lectures.

@stoverloren 3 жыл бұрын

Does the 2 wire cop coils have a seperate ground on control side or does the ground get supplied by pcm on control side? Sorry for the questions but you referred me to this video and it has been a lot of help so thank you for that. If it was a seperate ground then there would be an ignitor on out side of pcm.....right?

@ScannerDanner 3 жыл бұрын

The igniter (or coil driver) is in the PCM and yes, the PCM controls the ground side of the coils directly. No module, no igniter (external). And please don't apologize! I love answering questions for the non silver bullet types. And that is clearly not you. Thanks for the intelligent questions!

@orville58 5 жыл бұрын

the fog is starting to lift , thank you

@diymotorcycling1719 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Scanner Danner for you're Wealth of Knowledge! How does coil over plug design differ from coilpack in terms of ground side control? You showed that with conventional distributer ignition that one can test the ground side control with a test light. Would that work on a 3 wire coil pack as well? Ive got a 4 cyl ford Ranger with 2 coil packs, primary and secondary (8 spark plugs). My primary (exhaust side) coil has no spark coming from all 4 towers. Ive got battery constant power at primary (middle connector). Swapped with known good coil and no change. New CMP sensor, I have resistance from both cmp wires to pcm terminals. My secondary coilpack (Intake) is firing like it should, so I tested the control wires with LED test light and got pulse on both control wires with the engine running. Did the same control wires test on the Primary coilpack with the engine running and got power on both but no pulse. 99% sure my pcm control drivers are fried causing open ground control circuit. Am I correct that a fried transistor driver inside the pcm would would cause the test to stay lit on coilpack control wire? Seems kind of odd that both pcm drivers would fail. Could a cracked coil arcing to ground cause this on a coilpack system? Thanks, I'm still learning

@ScannerDanner 3 жыл бұрын

do the same tests with an incandescent bulb test light and report back Also, from memory, there are times that one of the coils is disabled on this system, but I do not remember when

@diymotorcycling1719 3 жыл бұрын

@@ScannerDanner Thank you Scanner Danner. I made a video if you have the time to watch. I've got constant test light at Bat + terminal (middle) at coilpack with the truck running. Also have constant test light at both control wires with truck running. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jpeZaLCnxNyRXZ8.html

@ScannerDanner 3 жыл бұрын

@@diymotorcycling1719 thanks so much for your kind words my friend. One big mistake that you did. You must not leave all the plug wires off when doing that test! It is super bad for the coil and also for the driver in the computer. That spark must ALWAYS have somewhere to go and with both plug wires off of each coil (there are two of them in that pack of 4 towers). So you can have weak spark by testing it that way because there is not return path back to the coil. This is a waste spark coil where the spark leaves one tower and returns on the other. You must have a plug wire providing the other path when you have your test light to one tower. Do the test again. I bet the 2-3 coil has very good spark with a plug wire attached. Now the 1-4 with no spark, I want you to check it again as I described. Also, your control test was invalid because the 2-3 had spark, it was just weak, so you absolutely had primary control on that one even though we couldn't see the flicker. With the engine running, that flicker will be hard to pick out because the frequency is so close together. Hope that makes sense. Re-do the test and we will talk

@diymotorcycling1719 3 жыл бұрын

@@ScannerDanner Thanks ScannerDanner. I did another test. Here is the video kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nrScm9KBmdLed3U.html. Basically same results as before. I'm about to buy a reman pcm and coilpacks. Yeah I realize the test light test isn't good, really need to do the amp ramp tests like in you're other videos. Anything else I can try? Thank you!

@user-wh1nr9rr1h 5 жыл бұрын

Paul, is their anyway to see the results of putting a new set of spark plugs in a car using a scanner. Any PID that would show difference?

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

If the engine is not misfiring, there will be no difference in driveability, nor scan data readings with old and new plugs

@1970chevy07 5 жыл бұрын

How do you check igniters

@GraditelMacedonia 3 жыл бұрын

When you check ICM for signal with test light on both sides, does that wire must be connected to the module or not?

@ScannerDanner 3 жыл бұрын

when I mention "both side", I'm talking about the ignition coil (coil positive and coil negative), not the ICM

@chrismeeks3755 Жыл бұрын

Working on a 2002 chevy silverado with 5.3 I have one cylinder misfiring badly and another with no spark at all. Ive done the usual stuff. Swap coils around, new plugs and wires, cleaned and swapped placement of injectors, tested fuel pressure, tested compression, tested for vacuum leaks, checked valve springs, and verified injector pulse. I am currently thinking it is the driver in the pcm that is failing. I have failed to find the proper way to test the coil wiring. There are four wires in the plug. 1. 12v positive 2. Ignition control signal 3. Low reference 4. Ground I have tested the 1 and 4 and they are fine. How do I test the other two with a multimeter or ice pick style circuit tester? I have tried to back probe the control wire at the pcm and the coil key on and cranking and am not getting anything. Can you give me guidance here Scanner danner?

@ScannerDanner Жыл бұрын

on the one with no spark at all, you need to test the ignition control signal wire for a 0-4 volt square wave signal. Without a scope, an LED test light may work for that pulse

@nilhansilva4799 2 жыл бұрын

I did a trouble shoot in mitsubishi mini van u61 model.it has a 3 cylinder 3g83 engine.problem was cranks but no start all the 3 ignition coils are getting hot while in ignition on position.i test the ignition control line with test light it's flickering when cranking.there was no any wire shorts.when I was test the control wire voltage with multi meter it was not in reference voltage 5v.but with 9,46v with ignition on.at last I replaced the ecu.the problem was solved after that.i checked the ecu transistors there were 3 tea teansistors.its seems to be nothing wrong with that.i test that without removing the transistor with multimeter.if the transistors are good.what can be the issue in high-voltage in control wire.pls.

@ScannerDanner 2 жыл бұрын

post this to my forum if you still need help. It is free to join www.scannerdanner.com/forum/post-your-repair-questions-here.html Hope to see you there!

@roadkill5333 5 жыл бұрын

Hey Paul, where's Tommy, from PLD? Do we need to take up a collection for his ransome, or bail??

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

He just got married. Give him a few to recover lol

@roadkill5333 5 жыл бұрын

ScannerDanner ohhhh, now I see!!! ___WE NEED RANSOME!!!___

@georgiemac3662 5 жыл бұрын

So if I join premium. Would I be able to get a a.s.e. certification after?

@Viper81766 5 жыл бұрын

I got my ASE in electrical and engine performance only because of Danners channel and book . He truly is the master of driveability diagnostics :-)

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

I do not offer any type of promise for whether or not you will be able to pass an ASE test but what I can tell you is the information I focus on will definitely help you! And more than just the electrical and engine performance ones too. Everything has electrical questions in it now. Even brake and suspension tests.

@Viper81766 5 жыл бұрын

I took both electrical and engine performance at our local community college and Paul taught 199 percent more than they did . I bought several dozen books and training manuals through the years and learned much more from Paul's manual . As Danner stated every system in the new vehicles are pretty much electrical in one way or another and will become more so . There is no better education in this field compared to what he offers .

@Viper81766 5 жыл бұрын

And if you truly apply yourself in what he teaches I believe you can pass those tests .

@throttlebottle5906 5 жыл бұрын

snickers loudly at "ASE" I'll behave, because some are very skilled ;)

@medch4193 5 жыл бұрын

but why there is no pulse on the feed wire

@exmotorsports 5 жыл бұрын

👍👍👍 😎

@sargetester99 5 жыл бұрын

You said that it is not posible to watch a voltage waveform of the spark on a [coil over plug module] design because of the transistor in the COP. I have been successful at viewing it using a scope but also an additional component which is easy to source and found everywhere, called a capacitor. It is a slightly different scope setting setup, but is easy to do. Contact me and I will explain it better if you don't already know. I have been doing it this way for years without fail.

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

What I said was you cannot view a PRIMARY voltage waveform on a cop coil where the transistor is in the coil. What you are describing is a secondary voltage waveform. Thank you!

@sargetester99 5 жыл бұрын

@@ScannerDanner you are correct

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

No problem. Thanks for your comment and input

@thomaskkhonny2975 4 жыл бұрын

HOW DO I DOWNLOAD YOUR BOOK MR DANNER

@ScannerDanner 4 жыл бұрын

Email me at support@scannerdanner.com Did you buy the eBook? If so we will need your name and email you used to register your eBook when you contact us

@Ashroyer86 5 жыл бұрын

Third

@alexmarquez7426 3 жыл бұрын

I have a 2006 Chrysler crossfire it doesn’t crank no start

@ScannerDanner 3 жыл бұрын

Doesn't crank? Meaning no starter engagement? Here is a playlist I've create for battery, starting and charging system issues kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pdVhhrV6q6_PmKc.html

@tashinamoses9660 3 жыл бұрын

@armandonika 5 жыл бұрын

First

@ajithkumara475 3 жыл бұрын

Obd code 00,a0,00,00 please research before proceeding how to chey

@ScannerDanner 3 жыл бұрын

Year, make, model, engine please. and those are not valid codes you listed

@ScannerDanner 3 жыл бұрын

eautorepair.adtrk.biz/?a=10817&c=24&p=r&s1=

@Ahab_786 5 жыл бұрын

I've got a 05 Saab that has a p0300 code. I made a post to your forum a few months ago and got some pretty cruddy answers from a few of the more senior members on there. fuel trim was fine, but I just watched your video >kzfaq.info/get/bejne/sLeImLCi0ajFl30.html< about spark wave-forms i don't have any fancy scopes like you, but it was suggested to me that it might be a bad crank sensor, but I'm not sure I'll have to try and test it. It looks like the P.O. dug into one of the coil's wiring loom and tried fixing something, along with replacing the coil. >kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gthxqsWr09_QnIU.html< someone watch this video and tell me what they think? Thank you. also great content. I work in a parts store and your slogan of "don't be a parts changer" is the antithesis of our thesis!

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

What do you mean "cruddy answers from senior members of my forum" How about you share a link to your posts for me so I can see.

@Ahab_786 5 жыл бұрын

@@ScannerDanner when i say cruddy awnsers from senior members i mean they were kind of innatentive to what i was saying. (Cruddy was more of a exaggeration) I probably could have been more descriptive in hindsight! www.scannerdanner.com/forum/post-your-repair-questions-here/3236-06-saab-9-3-arc.html#23066

@throttlebottle5906 5 жыл бұрын

whew, that audio.... blown out/over-driven, oh-well ;)

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

Audio was bad?

@throttlebottle5906 5 жыл бұрын

yeah a little, it has crackling in the highs, possibly too close to mic or recorded too high and clipping frequently. some people may not notice it, depending on what they're watching on. I'm always on a desktop with large monitor and home theater audio setup :)

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

Yep, it's good on my PC and phone but bad in my truck through my stereo. The original is not this way, I did something wrong in the rendering of this....

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

@@throttlebottle5906 I over sampled the audio in the edits of this older video. It's good on the premium channel (the original recording). I don't think I'm going to re-upload this, I'll make sure part 2 is good or at least better.

@throttlebottle5906 5 жыл бұрын

fine by me, many wouldn't notice it anyway ;) the hand-full of us that do are like me.... ( no "smart" aka stupid small devices)