Garrosh's letter to Grimtotem was fantastic

Grommash:My son. The day you were born, the very forests of Nagrand whispered the name, Garrosh. My child. I watched you with pride, as you grew into a weapon. Of rightousness. Remember, our line has always ruled with Honor, and strength. And I know that you will show restraint, when exercising your great power. But the truest victory, my son, is stirring the hearts of your people. I tell you this, for when my days have come to and end. You, shall be Warchief

What I like about Thrall's Mok'gora is that I think Garrosh probably knew full well deep down, that Thrall would resort to his Shamanistic power. He knew this wasn't an honourable challenge of power, this was Thrall coming to clean up his mess. But at the same time, there is no way Garrosh could refuse the challenge. Garrosh knew that to refuse the challenge would be the most shameful thing he could do and even the Iron Horde would look down on him. Garrosh probably knew he was going to his death, but refused to resign himself to defeat. He went in with bravery, hatred and anger, even of he knew his efforts were probably futile.

A good measure for a good villain is how long after their death the world is still effected by their actions. Garrosh has been dead for YEARS now. Everything from the day he became warchief til now between the alliance and horde can still be laid directly at his feet. So can the burning legions invasion So can the death of voljin and so much of the horde when the legion came So can the Fourth War in many ways. When he died in Nagrand it didnt end the war with the Iron Horde- the conflict was still ever escalating to the point Gul'dan was able to step back in to take the reins

God... the potential his story had. Look what they did to my boy..

Garrosh straight up told Thrall he wasn't the kind to be anything other than a military leader along with all of thralls advisors so when Garrosh tells thrall it's his fault how he turned out he's damn right.

I don't think it's fair how Garrosh has been vilified by the writing team; they omit important details from the chronicles, I don't think they ever kept that promise to make him an actual war song and his story is one they have no interest in coming back to. As that Bronze Dragon said, "what a waste." As for Thrall, yes he did cheat but not just with the use of the elements. As dirty as that was, what made this a dishonorable win was Thrall pinning him down and executing him when he was helpless; unable to defend himself. He also denied his responsibility and has been running from himself ever since: his younger self would be ashamed. Had Thrall been more fair in the fight--or rather, Blizzard been more willing to add some minutes and more animation to the scene--and said something along the lines of, "Yes, Garrosh, I did make you warchief. I failed you and the Horde by doing so, so allow me to atone," I think he would've looked better and be less guilt ridden. I hope they touch on Thrall's guilt one day and properly explore it without excusing him. He's got to grow up, take responsibility and face his past mistakes and it would be nice if Garrosh's spirit could be the one to make that happen.

Grom's death in the fight with mannoroth always make me cry :( Every time.

That screenshot at the end from the guy that said Garrosh did nothing wrong predicted the downfall of Sylvanas.

That cinematic from WC3 is one of the most beautiful cinematic in video game history

What a great way to piss off Garrosh......by mentioning his father "your father dabbled in powers beyond Reckoning... where is he now."

After going back and watching this video again and again, I cant help but feel sympathy for Garrosh. He was honest with Thrall from the beginning, he didnt believe he had what it took to be a responsible leader. Thrall told him he "had to" pretty much(?) which is just dumb when you have leaders like Cairne at the time! Honestly hope Garrosh gets a redemption in Shadow Lands. Also... WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT TRYING TO FIND CAIRNE IN THE SHADOW LANDS?!? One of my all time absolute favorite characters and every time people talk about who they want to see, I bring up Cairne, and everyone is just like "lOl FoRgOt hE eVeN dIeD"

It’s so nice coming back to your videos

Varian had already declared war on the Horde by the time Cata started. Garrosh was in his right to send troops into Ashenvale. Also dislike how they retconned Twilight Hammer involvement in Chronicles.

WoD was awesome... well, at least the first half of it.

Next video, can you explain the lore behind "Jimmy the stable boy" does he ever becomes "Jimmy the unstable boy"? :O

Epic video dude well made

Such a great video, you truly should have more subs

i like your additions in the subtitles :)

Even tho he was a hyper aggressive maniac, he was the coolest warchief!

The writers and dev’s really shit the bed with his character in MoP. Made him do a complete 180°, without any event leading to him to change his core values. They shouldn’t have made him an antagonist, there should’ve been no WoD, no time traveling to alternate timelines, we should’ve dealt with Sylvannas instead, should’ve been no MoP.

Thrall should have made Voljin of Cairne Leader and kept Garrosh as a general.

I scream, you scream, we all scream for Hellscream!

He wanted good for the orcs (and only the orcs) but he made Gar-rash decisions

I did enjoy it. Thank you nobbel!

Sadly, he was imprisoned in Revendreth.

35:30 oh my God, Garrosh just roasted sylvanas by calling her a BIATCH 🤣🤣🤣

Don't really care for all these retcons they keep doing with the lore. Thrall settled Durotar because it was supposedly similar to the lands the orcs had originated from, "rugged and beautiful". Not because he wanted to force his entire race to do some asinine penance. No competent leader would do that to their people. And no one would willingly follow a leader that did.

35:33 Fun -but not really in this case- fact: In recent patches -not sure which-, Garrosh calling Sylvanas a "bitch" has been cut out from the dialogue and sound files. So now it's just "Watch your clever mouth."

Garrosh knew better because of the fact he was a Hellscream. Yet he still got drunk with power claiming everything was for the horde when he was simply trying to fill a hole Thrall left open after leaving.

Damn... the back and forth between him and thrall in the end. Makes me wonder what would have happened if thrall had stayed and guided hellscream.

did anyone ever think that the most outlandish and unbelievable part of the whole story is the image of Gary sitting down to write a letter, and such an eloquent one at that...

They just deleted Garrosh from the story after Cataclysm and replaced him with a cartoonishly evil Disney villain.

"Watch your clever mouth" is all he says now if you do the questline.

I really think they could have told a story where Garrosh ended up in his MoP version if they played it out over a longer time and gave better motives. I mean they did it with Arthas in WC3. Paladin Arthas from the first mission of the human campaign in RoC was nearly the opposite of DK Arthas at the end of TFT, but because they were able to show you his story unfold and give his motives, it felt natural. They could have done something similar with Garrosh. This is how I think it could have worked. Each Cata patch should have had Garrosh become more frustrated and disenfranchised with how the world was working, to point he comes to the conclusion a new order is needed. A world where only the strong rise to the top, and the weak are only allowed to live by the good grace of the strong, which, fueled by immense pride, he would obviously believe this would be the Horde and more specifically the Orcs. He could also be greatly intrigued by Deathwing and wonder how he grew so powerful and find out besides just naturally being powerful, the Old God's role in things. Furthering his interest in the subject. By the time MoP comes, Garrosh now has a clear vision for the world, and will do whatever it takes to achieve it (mirroring Arthas' desire to do whatever it takes). Going to Pandaria. Y'shaarj (or what's left of it) and it's followers find Garrosh's ideal world of constant conflict and such lines up nicely with their own desires and actively aid him, though not in a formal alliance sort of way, more of nudging things in his favor sort of way. This would satisfy both Garrosh doing everything of his own accord, but also satisfy the Old God meddling too and make sense. By this time the other Horde races would get sick of his shit since he has started multiple new conflicts and turn on him, _forcing_ him to accept followers of Y'shaarj as allies much to his dismay. Remember, he doesn't like it, but he's at the point he will do whatever it takes to see his vision. Now he's a suitable as an end boss. After that it could go any way really

Considering his orcish name was presumably a combination of “Goku” and “Kal El”... yeah, it’s little wonder how Thrall earned a reputation for kill stealing

I'm a year late, but your story telling is absolutely stellar. I love the way you pronounce the words provided in WoW lore.

23:45 Chronicles often leave out crucial details. They wouldn't have priority over previous novels

Damn Garrosh must've been a genius to just memorize all the iron horde upgrades. Straight up trained in goblin engineering as Warchief i guess.

Those were simpler times. Now on Shadowlands we are fighting death itself, how can it escalate after that? After such a thing as the Maw how can the Alliance and Horde go back to the fun days of faction fighting and conquering?....

I do really like the story of Garrosh, and I always remember the irritation I felt when he turned from a potentially great Warchief to a monster. Is it true that Thrall made a mistake in giving Garrosh too much power? Yes. He refused to see reason, and only appointed him because he wanted Garrosh to grow and mature under the adoration of his people, without seeing the potential downside of giving a child too much power. Garrosh had multiple moments to see his path turning dark, and even had moments where he contemplated the alternative to his eventual ending, only to scorn it and blast forward with all his might. His utter denouncement of Vol'jin, his disrespect towards Cairne and Sylvanas, and the eventual murders he would commit. All of them provided insight to where his life was heading and all he could do was deny any consequence and surround himself with yes men. Eventually a point was reached and he simply didn't care about the consequences anymore. It was no longer a struggle of moral ideals, but a firm belief in his own views, anyone else's opinions be damned. Thrall did fail him, yes, but Garrosh failed himself. He didn't need an old god to corrupt him, he was already long gone, and he reveled in his own demons. Garrosh had the potential to be great, but they chose to build a story of a person who became a monster through the ideals of "My way, or the highway." As much as I wanted him to be a great Warchief, I'm glad they chose to make him irredeemable.

I think thrall did cheat in the mak’gora because he was so heated with rage of all garrosh did he no longer cared for traditions and all he wanted was garrosh to go and fix the horde

The closed captions make it so much better

Garrosh will always be my true warchief

In the first ~20 min, Garrosh's motivations for many of his actions, and Thrall's praise of him confuses me. He experiences despair from thinking his father was a terrible leader. Then after realizing his father redeemed himself by destroying Mannoroth, he decides to make the same kind of war mongering mistakes Grommash made by proposing that the horde should just "take what they want" or by his prideful outbursts in front of King Varian. He has less reasons to be war mongering, and overly prideful in his race than pretty much anyone. For example 1) He didn't drink the Fel blood that would make him blood thirsty 2) He originally showed shame for the decisions his father made, which means he realizes on some level that what his father did was wrong 3) He knows Thrall is part of the reason his father redeemed himself; thus, Thrall should be someone he respects I'm sure there are more... Also, why does Thrall give him praise by presenting him with GoreHowl at the end of the Northrend campaign? What did Garrosh do that was indicative of being a proper leader? From the video, it seems like Garrosh only further provoked tensions between the Horde and Alliance, and acted out of rage. Unless Nobbel left out some key information regarding Garrosh's lore, his actions and Thrall's appreciation of him don't make sense to me.

And after he died, he rage quit. That is cannon.

It's so unfortunate that they replaced the Garrosh model with the Cata one in ToC, Icecrown, etc.

LOL Your subtitles are killing me dude. Get that heart some milk.

I'd hate to use the Warcraft movie as an example, but in the film after Gul'dan beats Durotan in Mak'gora, all of the orc spectators are disgusted, and yell: "You cheated, Gul'dan." Not using magic or shamanism during Mak'gora is a sort of gentleman's code - there's no explicit rule prohibiting its usage, but it's still frowned upon. So yes, Thrall technically cheated (... and so did Sylvanas).

For the true Warchief for Garrosh

I really hope Garrosh was actually manipulated by the Old Gods or even the Jailer. His sudden turn seems strange, yeah he was a warmonger, but he had a sense of honor. Instead of WOD we could have had an expansion where the Old Gods reveal they manipulated the events of MOP in order to loosen the shackles or something. Here it would be revealed that his violent urges were increased to turn him into a madman.

Are we sure the writing team wasn’t replaced by doppelgängers right before Mists of Pandaria?

He did nothing wrong.

1:27:00 Well this guy was right, they did it to Sylvanas too and now there's no chief. Thrall did not cheat because there's no specific rules. And if there was such rules about using magic it will be unfair for those who wield it. And it would make de Mak’gora an advantage to Warriors.

Might want to add that Jaina joined the alliance and allowed them to attack the horde through her city, justifying the attack on Theramore.

Cool to see my vid from years ago in a nobbel vid!

Uhh yeah subtitles guy , i dont know what you were on during cutscenes but i want some

The only thing Garrosh did wrong was to release the hearth on the pools of Pandaria, after that yeah, he deserved everything that followed

aaaah yeah, I was watching the sylvannis movie

Can you make a video on the infinite dragonflight please :)

Even though this video is over 2 years old now, and I'm fairly biased in the direction of believing Garrosh did nothing wrong, I still want to leave a comment with my thoughts on this. First of all, Believing Garrosh did nothing wrong, and believing nothing he did was wrong are 2 completely different things, at least for me. Was what Garrosh did wrong? Yes, unbelievably so, the forced impregnation still makes me nauseous, seeing as how my grandmother is a WW2 Survivor, it hits especially close to home with that particular piece of information, above all others. BUT Was Garrosh wrong? No, I don't believe so, not fully at least. Garrosh was always hindered and prodded and pretty much beaten by the legacy of his family, among other things. Before he met Thrall, he was so dejected and miserable, believing his father was the ultimate traitor of his people, that he was more then likely having suicidal tendencies I would wager. He truly thought, to his very core, that nothing he could do would EVER make up for what happened, that it would be better for all of Draenor to forget the name Hellscream, lest misfortune land on their clan from uttering such a detestable name. But when Thrall arrived, things took a turn, not really for the better. After Thrall arrived and revealed the truth to Garrosh of his fathers sacrifice, and after arriving in Orgrimmar, he was influenced in ANOTHER way, arguably just as bad. Here was Thrall, the leader of the new Horde, an orc that radiated power, according to the Mag'har in Outland, one who had not only fought for his people, but fought for peace, and carved a home for all of them in the lands of Kalimdor. Being the grandson of Greatmother Geyah, who Garrosh, prior to Thralls arrival, seemed to have a bit of a grandson/son-esque infatuation with, he more then likely allowed that to influence his opinion of Thrall as well. On top of that though, which makes it worse, is that now that Garrosh knew the truth, and the others in Orgrimmar also knew what Grommash had done, suddenly everything went topsy turvy for the young orc. Here was a man that, for the majority of his life, had been told that his father had betrayed their people, had lead their warriors away, and had given their very SOULS, to the demons that now controlled them. Now here he was, brought to a new land, a harsh land, where most, not all, but most likely most, saw Garrosh, and expected so much from him. He was put up on a proverbial pedestal honestly. Everyone expected from him so much, due to his fathers sacrifice, none more so then Thrall probably, and seeing this young orc, basically accompanying Thrall almost everywhere, many others also more then likely held him to the same standard as Thrall, expecting to some degree that Thrall was probably training Garrosh to be the next Warchief one day, which with Deathwing arriving, happened alot sooner then expected more then likely. Garrosh was an, in all manner, a man....a boy really, in terms of mentality, that was constantly pressured in some way, whether it be good or bad, in no small part due to the actions of those around him. Thrall had no business putting a young, and still inexperienced person like Thrall on the mantle of Warchief, sure, he probably honestly thought that the advisors would help lead Garrosh inthe right and proper direction, but that wasn't a good thing either, because at least some of them, probably expected Garrosh to more or less act like Thrall, which in turn means that they weren't really respecting him as his own person, just an extension of Thrall, a replacement really, which Garrosh likely noticed, due to not being a slow or dim-witted individual (like me lol). in conclusion, what Garrosh did was wrong, and while he may have been wrong for what he did ultimately in the end, the actions, whether by him or others, contributed to all this, and helped shape the legacy of Hellscream. P.S. Yes, Thrall, you are 100% at fault for what happened to Garrosh, you took him from his home, shoved him into the spotlight of a planet-wide, multi-cultural epicenter on another planet, and expected him to act in a certain way, without respecting him being his own person, all the while letting your memories and expectations OF Garrosh be influenced in no small part by Grommash.

Even to this day, the potential Garrosh had, to turn the Horde into a true powerhouse, was cut short. Albeit his crimes we cannot excuse neither in the depth of how many or the scale of how bad they were, he could have made the Horde, which is always going to be the bad guys, become a faction that actually mattered in the power scale, instead, we always lose or any victory the Horde canonically has, I legit cannot believe it given how OP the Alliance is with their downright powerhouse of troops.

Never really looked at it but Grommosh hair is beautiful lol

MY WARCHIEF

question, i want to start playing WOW, if i start now and join any faction, i get to live all the event that the faction went threw so far? like how deathwing completely changed the geography of the land with his maelstrom of fire and flames as he flyed over azeroth?

“You made me do nothing wrong.”

5:11 Pam pam pam pam charge at him gromm. Kick mnnoorht booty. Ow snap you carved him up

Is blizz doing everything they can to make garrosh look like a bad guy. Or is that just how wow history sees the event with the druids. Also hammul runetotem should've known something was up with the orc weilding the sword. No self respecting orc would be caught dead weilding a sword.

How is Thrall Groms old friend when he is the son of Durotan and Grom and Durotan were roughly the same age

The captions, tho

Think we could possibly see Grom in Shadowlands?

I forgot he actually called Sylvanas a bitch. That was forshadowing for the shadowlands storyline, he was right before it was cool.

damn that scene is better than whole bfa sl and df together 5:58

35:29 Garrosh on his sigma male grindset

So outside of Thrall pulling spells out in a Mak'gorah, aren't the participants suppose to be bare chested? Thrall has his old warchief armor on under his robe... And Greatmother Geyah told him to take that off a long time ago. I remember he was hesitant to remove it but HAD to for his shaman training before Deathwing came.

Yes he did. Thrall cheated and cost us a great Warchief

It only took 1.5h but i finally understand wtf is going on in WoD. Thanks, great video man

Garrosh did everything wrong, but he was an orcish warrior who didnt know better. Now the 1# cow of the venthir.

Thrall did cheat though. The Warcraft movie really is one of the best examples of Mak'gora. Durotan challenged Gul'dan, Gul'dan used his magics to kill Durotan, every other orc said Gul'dan cheated. If Thrall didn't cheat in Mak'gora, are you willing to say that Sylvanas against Saurfang didn't cheat either? It isn't about knowing about your opponents powers, it's expecting them to be honorable in a fight where the only magic allowed is a blessing to the fighters weapons. Garrosh went in, expecting Thrall to fight like a man and it cost him his life because Thrall didn't.

Here to give ya’ll a Zug-Tug

17:40 Saurfang is Kosher confirmed.

Guldan useing magic on sacred duel - cheater Thrall does the same - he did nothing wrong :V

He really put the axe down and started punching... You know you messed up.

5:22 is gold thnx who ever made the subs

1:26:08 Hellscream pout face.

Das my Warchief!

how the uck is he that strong to blow up a bell with one single punch?!

Yes and no. I believe the Rules are set beforehand. The question that needs to be answered is if Garrosh agreed to allow Thrall access to his full abilities. If so it is Hellscreams own fault for not taking into account what could happen. Honestly is it cheating...maybe. did it looking fucking awesome. Absofuckinglutly!

We have to keep it even... Sylvannas was considered a cheater in the Mak'gora for using her powers and so was Guld'an, Thrall is no different. He saw he would die in this challenge and cheated. That is why the spirits left him there was no honor in that kill.

#GarroshdidNothingWrong

I think that both members of the Mak'gora cheated to be fair, Garrosh and Thrall didn't SEEM to have a fair audience on both sides, but Thrall cheated "more" if you could say that, wearing full torso body armor and using ALL the elements. I think whats interesting about Garrosh is that he definitely did bad things but he also did some pretty reasonable things for the horde, and Thrall definitely played a part in it. I just wish they had bridged the gap between him throwing a commander off a bridge for using bombs, and bombing Theramore, like Theramore was very stratigic and I don't actually believe it was a bad target, but this started his hypocritical tendancy, which you can even see in Siege of Orgrimmar, as Garrosh stats that Thrall allowed warlocks to practice dark magics, while he himself is currently standing below the heart of an old god and told his "Dark Shaman" to basically destroy the elements, and he employed Sha and Mantid....

I supported Garrosh at times fully and others reluctantly up until he ravaged the Vale of Eternal Blossoms and turned against the other races of the Horde. I cheered when Theramore was destroyed. I served alongside him and his lieutenants proudly in Pandaria. It’s truly a shame what Blizzard did to his character in the end. The Alliance would likely have ceased to exist had the other Horde leaders worked with him from the start.

Krim'gar sounds and acts so much like Starscream?

he did nothing wrong, that's all there is to know

35:30 Me when my sister talks down to me

no I don't think Thrall cheated in his duel with Garrosh...considering Garrosh before the Duel was doing things he early in his life he was against but obviously changed his mind..........Thrall was with in his rights to use his shaman powers.

Garrosh vs Cairne in Shadowlands round 2

WoD trailer mak'gora cutscene are honestly better than most of that expansion combined.

1:30:26 RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH

Those subtitles tho