NuScale, New Problems

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Decouple Media

Decouple Media

5 ай бұрын

The cancellation of the Carbon Free Power Project was a massive blow to US SMR front runner NuScale. James Krellenstein joins me for a deep dive.
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Пікірлер: 93
@skonne7
@skonne7 5 ай бұрын
I wish you started videos like this with a basic: "What Happened, and Why." It feels like you get ahead of yourself sometimes and then have to return to something basic like the topic of power cost vs project cost later in the video. Not everyone has a background understanding of the underlying dynamics and so it can feel a little tangled up talking so much about SMRs generally in the context of a current event with one specific company. The AIA rule is interesting, but I'd rather hear thoughts about whether current events affect NuScale's (or others') strategic plans or customer base composition.
@MrVaticanRag
@MrVaticanRag 5 ай бұрын
Just an inefficient Mini High Pressure Gen III
@tonywilson4713
@tonywilson4713 3 ай бұрын
I absolutely agree - Chris like so many advocates (of every energy sector type) lets his enthusiasm get ahead of the reality at times. If I have major critique its that (like so many other pro-nuclear advocates) he's seems obsessed with hacking away at the wind & solar industry. What both the pro-nuclear and pro-renewable crowds need to wake up to is that they ARE NOT DIRECT COMPETITORS even thought there is some overlap. Nuclear is a great option for 24/7 baseload supply, but its lousy for the daily swings in energy demand called load following. Its a simple reality of the mechanics of nuclear power. Coal fired power stations have EXACTLY the same issue. It can several days to get a coal or nuclear plant up to speed from a cold start. A wind turbine just needs the brake released and a solar panel just needs the switch flicked. Renewables are lousy for 24/7 baseload because of the energy storage issue. They can help support base load but can't do it all because it requires such a massive storage system. However the ability to switch in and out as needed is something nuclear just can't do. Its like asking an ocean liner to act like a speed boat. Renewables and nuclear are complimentary AND NEITHER of those groups get that.
@liamhogan4369
@liamhogan4369 28 күн бұрын
Are they the same for levelised costs? Which techomology has more room to grow in efficiency? Because if we are in a climate crisis, then we must pursue the more efficient option. Nuclear and battery storage technology. PSH, and emerging battery technology, put Nuclear and Wind and Solar on the same playing field. There is no reason to pursue both for grid scale applications, aside from suing solar to offset AC use. For smaller applications and to avoid transportation infrastructure, solar and wind are flatly superior.
@mgr8672
@mgr8672 5 ай бұрын
This kind of chronological snobbery that Chris describes is quite rampant in (nuclear) engineering. Young generations tend to assume that their predecessors havent been the sharpest or maybe feel superior due to their modern computing toys. They often forget that components functioning today inside power plants have evolved during long trial and error campaigns. No simulations but HW testing in large facilities. And the sizing of current NPPs did not result from silly adhoc decission making but evolved over decades based on endless reflections, discussions, calculations and other iterations. A little more humbleness would often save a lot of time and money. But I also understand that young engineers rather be innovators than trustees
@scottmedwid1818
@scottmedwid1818 5 ай бұрын
Frankly, I don’t think anything‘s gonna happen in the United States until an order for 10 machines can be put on the books, and whether that order is filled by the Koreans or the Canadians is not important to me I just want to see the United States get back in the game and start building nuclear power again. Frankly, I love the idea of an American CANDU reactor company organized under a TVA like organization to provide electricity and heat for a region of the United States
@RandyTWester
@RandyTWester 4 ай бұрын
The U.S. has basically banned the CANDU design because it technically has a negative void coefficient. But other countries are building them.
@FernandoWINSANTO
@FernandoWINSANTO 25 күн бұрын
The governement is involved with safety and regulations but in the United States civilian nuclear is private enterprise.
@scottmedwid1818
@scottmedwid1818 5 ай бұрын
Today on US national public radio, the morning edition show, they did a seven minute segment on the future of fusion power. One of the things that they brought up was that it’s very easy to start building and testing a fusion startup company and the article cited five companies they were working on such an endeavor. He also brought up the point later in the article that fusion is trying to replicate the conditions found inside a star and then this will be used to make easy electricity . All the great things they said fusion can do fission can do right now, but the regulation process is impossible.
@MrVaticanRag
@MrVaticanRag 5 ай бұрын
Scott Fusion will always be 3 decade's away, until they understand that the Sun's Fusion occurs at the corona not the core...
@TB-zf7we
@TB-zf7we 5 ай бұрын
Fusion energy a great idea that is 20 years away from fruition for the last 50 years.
@liamhogan4369
@liamhogan4369 28 күн бұрын
Give it a couple centuries, we'll get it down. Of course, whether it will ever be cost effective, and compared to other emerging technologies ... that may take a fair sight longer.
@ninefox344
@ninefox344 5 ай бұрын
Found it a little strange that James talks about the 12 module nuscale plant size when the canceled UAMPS project was a 6 module design. Also he also ignores that the nuscale modules are being uprated to 77 MWe instead of 50 MWe. Is it really so impossibly hard to build a giant nuclear grade swimming pool? I don't know, but I hope Nuscale is given the chance to find out. James didn't mention it outright but I like that the site construction and the nuclear component construction are completely decoupled. The crew that builds the concrete bathtub doesn't ever have to wait on the modules. They can go start a new site if they finish the previous one early. Also very nice is that the turbines that Nuscale plans to use are off the shelf (used in coal plants), as opposed to almost all other turbines used in nuclear plants must be custom made because they run at lower RPMs.
@FernandoWINSANTO
@FernandoWINSANTO 25 күн бұрын
Average size of reactors is over 1000 Mw ... 12 X 50Mw is (only) 600 Mw
@ninefox344
@ninefox344 25 күн бұрын
@@FernandoWINSANTO Like I said, Nuscale is having their modules uprated to 77 MWe
@FernandoWINSANTO
@FernandoWINSANTO 24 күн бұрын
@@ninefox344 ? ? ?
@ninefox344
@ninefox344 24 күн бұрын
@@FernandoWINSANTO So 12 * 77 is almost 1 GW. There are plenty of operational reactors in the US below 925 MW such as Oconee, Turkey Point, Farley, Dresden, Hatch, and more.
@billcampbell1292
@billcampbell1292 5 ай бұрын
So what about a comparison to the civil costs for a Candu
@mhirasuna
@mhirasuna 5 ай бұрын
After hearing Krellenstein's assessment of the NuScale SMR, I understand why he wants the USA to build another AP1000 at a site where it already has a NRC license. Even though NuScale has the only NRC approved SMR, there are other SMR designs being proposed for other countries. So the SMR concept is not dead and may eventually come to the USA if they succeed elsewhere. But for now we need something to keep the USA nuclear supply chain alive, so Krellenstein may be right. Maybe it is time to revive the AP1000 Turkey Point project.
@aliendroneservices6621
@aliendroneservices6621 5 ай бұрын
I've heard there are over 100 different reactor designs to choose from, right now, and there are new ones being created every year. So, it's not just a handful.
@mhirasuna
@mhirasuna 5 ай бұрын
@@aliendroneservices6621 There are six SMR designs being considered by the UK, all LWRs. Besides NuScale, there are designs from Westinghouse, GE/Hitachi, Rolls Royce, Holtec and EDF.
@clarkkent9080
@clarkkent9080 5 ай бұрын
@@mhirasuna You may want to look at their stock after the NuScale cancelation
@clarkkent9080
@clarkkent9080 5 ай бұрын
After VC Summer and Vogtle why would any one expect an AP1000 to cost less than $17 billion. And with inflation the real cost will be over $20 billion for a 1 Gw unit
@happyhome41
@happyhome41 5 ай бұрын
James hit the nail on the head (!) [1:06:00] in the traits of SUCCESSFUL advocacy. “Not on the pathway to get even the low-hanging fruit.” “Advocacy at the end of the day, is SOCIAL ENGINEERING. It’s engineering toward a policy goal, a policy win.” PUT ME IN COACH ! YES YES YES @Decouple Media - this cries for one of your shorts that emphasizes this part.
@FernandoWINSANTO
@FernandoWINSANTO 22 күн бұрын
What type of people are investors?
@lindsaydempsey5683
@lindsaydempsey5683 5 ай бұрын
I would love to see a NuScale demo plant get built, there will be so much to learn from that experience. That said NuScale is probably best suited to small grids and no real use case for larger grids IMO.
@dixon_est
@dixon_est 4 ай бұрын
The issue with the NuScale "pool" design is, that they have made it linear. Most of the space is taken by this huge corridor. Instead it should be at least 2 vessels: one circular, which has reactor cores near the walls and refueling part in the middle. Another one should be just a water reservoir connected to the main pool (assuming the want to keep the passive cooling). This way the second pool doesn't have to be so strong, that it needs to tolerate the aircraft impact.
@oppressorable
@oppressorable Ай бұрын
I think it's all very interesting point. The reverse question can be asked though. Is there further economy possible in term of economy of scale possible building bigger reactor cores? Is there a physical limit to how big we can build a reactor?
@FernandoWINSANTO
@FernandoWINSANTO 23 күн бұрын
The biggest is I think the EPR 1600 MW reactor Finland UK France, but As an investor, what schould you think about ?
@davidblomeley9484
@davidblomeley9484 Ай бұрын
Does Baraka have an anti aircraft concrete shield?
@williamgrebenik8876
@williamgrebenik8876 5 ай бұрын
An update on Nuscale by local news station: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nJinoa2JzbjZg2w.html
@mikesnyder9474
@mikesnyder9474 5 ай бұрын
It would be great to get a run down of the pros and cons of each of the different new nuclear designs in order for us non-expert advocates to have a window into the "best solution" debate
@aliendroneservices6621
@aliendroneservices6621 5 ай бұрын
There are over 100, and no one knows what their real-world pros and cons might be, because none of them have ever been deployed.
@clarkkent9080
@clarkkent9080 5 ай бұрын
Simple run down. PWRs and BWRs are well known. Everything else is just a power point presentation.
@jimgraham6722
@jimgraham6722 3 ай бұрын
Isn't refuelling passee? A travelling wave core might last thirty years, life of the vessel.
@Charlie-UK
@Charlie-UK 5 ай бұрын
Taking the entire, 'LifeCycle' of Nuclear into account including decommissioning and long term geological storage of waste, It has never been a commercial proposition. The total costs are astronomical. But that's the 'commercial' proposition, those are Not the only considerations. We need Clean Baseload power, and Nuclear is one of the few viable sources we have. Accept that it will never be a commercial proposition, and that it will require substantial government investment going forward and move on. Nuclear is too important, to get hung up, on wether it's a commercial proposition or not...
@chapter4travels
@chapter4travels 5 ай бұрын
Let's see a tiny low-temperature/high-pressure reactor costs too much. Who didn't see this coming? They never had a chance. The only "Nuclear" that has a chance (just a chance) are high-temperature/ low-pressure reactors. This type of reactor should cost no more than a gas plant if not for over-regulation. In the US, this is guaranteed, but it's remotely possible in other countries. This is nuclear's only chance in the short term, long term everything goes fission.
@aliendroneservices6621
@aliendroneservices6621 5 ай бұрын
Is high-temperature/low-pressure the only kind of reactor being built in China?
@chapter4travels
@chapter4travels 5 ай бұрын
@@aliendroneservices6621 China plays by its own rules and can do anything they want. In the rest of the world, it has to be cost-effective and versatile.
@MrVaticanRag
@MrVaticanRag 5 ай бұрын
@chapter4travels Yes - The obvious conclusion
@chapter4travels
@chapter4travels 5 ай бұрын
@@MrVaticanRag Is there any new information given here? I don't speak the language. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nJiFgbuUytDTeWQ.html
@thorsrensen3162
@thorsrensen3162 5 ай бұрын
It is like a new fukushima what happened to Nuscale Power. A complete meltdown. I wish I had keept away from that stock now I have been smashed from behind.
@ShaneNull
@ShaneNull 5 ай бұрын
We waste more energy than we use is the problem, take a toaster for example, a slice of bread requires 8 calories but toasters create 23 %65 wasteful, or an average car moving an average person is %90 waste and the weight of cars is increasing, scale down inefficiency
@dustymangus6892
@dustymangus6892 5 ай бұрын
I bet that the BN-800 reactor in Russia fits in that large category 1 structure.
@aliendroneservices6621
@aliendroneservices6621 5 ай бұрын
43:38 *_Blue Energy | Offshore Nuclear Power_* Founders: Matt Slotskin Jacob Jurewicz "Blue Energy is "productizing” nuclear fission by manufacturing pre-certified light water small modular reactors in shipyards as fully-completed, transportable nuclear power plants that are leased to industrial facilities and countries seeking energy security, price stability, and turnkey decarbonization. We leverage existing oil & gas platform manufacturing infrastructure and a simplified plant design to shrink the construction schedule from 10 years to 24 months and the overnight capital cost from greater than $6,000/kW to less than $2,500/kW while putting nuclear on a learning curve down to $1/W."
@chapter4travels
@chapter4travels 5 ай бұрын
Here's the bottom line, if the NRC approves it, you can't afford it.
@jamesdoak2153
@jamesdoak2153 5 ай бұрын
Audio?
@benchapple1583
@benchapple1583 5 ай бұрын
I have no audio problem at all. What's the issue at your end? The question is well meant.
@davidfetter
@davidfetter 5 ай бұрын
It's Biggie's 1997 smash hit on loop, as befits the episode title.
@davieb8216
@davieb8216 Ай бұрын
This is a great channel, not too pro l nuclear. Goes past the twitter/Murdoch talking points.
@stephenbrickwood1602
@stephenbrickwood1602 5 ай бұрын
Nuclear heaters added to power plants are cheap, compared to the extremely expensive national transmission grid. 66% of electricity bills are grid costs on a grid that the construction was mostly paid for years ago. The national grid is fragile because it is incredibly expensive, no overbuild ever. So no fossil fuels means 5fold bigger grid capacity for 5fold more grid electricity. Lets be objective on this additional extreme expenditure, the massive extra grid construction costs. The Australian Snowy 2, $ 2 Billion budget is now $12 Billion because of the new grid costs. In fact $ 22 Billion is spoken about. Hello, hello anyone home hello 👋. The silence is deafening on this matter. This is not rocket science. Even nuclear promoters say grid costs are killer costs for distant renewables. So lets be real. The existing national grid is small compared to what is needed. The national grid took decades and decades and decades to build.
@manatoa1
@manatoa1 5 ай бұрын
Dont we really just need updated gen2 plants? Why can't we just scrap the aircraft impact requirement and add a SAM site to each plant?
@chapter4travels
@chapter4travels 5 ай бұрын
In a non-presurized, non-water reactor meeting the aircraft impact requirement is much easier. ThorCon power is able to do it with a double-walled hull filled with non-nuclear grade concrete or even just sand. (Barge construction)
@clarkkent9080
@clarkkent9080 5 ай бұрын
@@chapter4travels If they only actually made a real commercial power plant we would know if that is true
@chapter4travels
@chapter4travels 5 ай бұрын
@@clarkkent9080 Actually we know it as a fact without building anything. A containment structure for a PWR has to hold back thousands of PSI from within and an aircraft impact from outside. A low-pressure reactor like Thorcon only has to take the exterior impact which is actually not hard to do at all.
@clarkkent9080
@clarkkent9080 5 ай бұрын
@@chapter4travels Just proves you know nothing. The containment structure is designed to withstand ~40 psig and that design alone also prevents pentation in an aircraft accident, as you just admitted. I worked at one that was only designed to withstand 30 psig as it was maintained under a vacuum normally. It is based on containment volume vs primary volume. Hell refinery storage tanks contain more pressure than that.
@chapter4travels
@chapter4travels 5 ай бұрын
@@clarkkent9080 It also has to contain a hydrogen explosion which is only possible in a water reactor. Here are the full requirements from the NRC. These requirements are not applicable to a non-water, non-pressurized reactor. Of course, the NRC will never change them for a non-water reactor. www.nrc.gov/docs/ML0932/ML093200703.pdf
@kaya051285
@kaya051285 5 ай бұрын
The battle for electricity generation is lost. Nuclear should concentrate on trying to rapidly develop and deploy heat only reactors to provide for district heating grids The demand for low temp building heat is larger than electricity in many nations eg UK 300TWh electricity vs 400TWh heat
@clarkkent9080
@clarkkent9080 5 ай бұрын
There is and never will be economies of SMALL nuclear power plants. It was a scam from the beginning and only those that never worked in the nuclear industry though that it was a good idea. the build it in a factory concept was tried at VC Summer and Vogtle and both projects proved it more costly than onsite construction.
@chapter4travels
@chapter4travels 5 ай бұрын
Ok Doomer
@clarkkent9080
@clarkkent9080 5 ай бұрын
@@chapter4travels I provide facts and have been saying that NuScale's project made no sense for more than a year and I guess I was right. Terrapower will fail next. You provide conspiracy theories to explain the failure of nuclear power and BS about unicorn SMRs all over the world. People like you hate facts because they disprove, over and over, your lies.
@bradsnyder8802
@bradsnyder8802 5 ай бұрын
Our coal plants, natural gas plants, and petroleum distilleries are not aircraft compliant. High rise buildings, airports, stadiums. Our Capital is not aircraft compliant. Plenty of targets out there if we are worried about loss of life. Seems like the aircraft criterion is overkill.
@aliendroneservices6621
@aliendroneservices6621 5 ай бұрын
And one wonders why it would be necessary when CIWS (automated gun-based close-in weapon system) guns could simply be installed. I believe all of the US national laboratories are protected by CIWS guns.
@chapter4travels
@chapter4travels 5 ай бұрын
Of course, it is by design.
@ahuels67
@ahuels67 5 күн бұрын
The NuScales will be perfect for Elon to bring with him to Mars and get the colony going!!
@iancormie9916
@iancormie9916 3 ай бұрын
Why is there an instinctive fear - simple ask Hanoi Jane. Propaganda knows no bounds.
@stephenbrickwood1602
@stephenbrickwood1602 5 ай бұрын
Even nuclear promoters agree Electric vehicles will be needed and so more electricity is needed. EV sales are increasing by 60% annually, and it is true to say from a small base number of EV vehicles. EV technology may evolve, but more electricity is needed.
@clarkkent9080
@clarkkent9080 5 ай бұрын
There is more solar and wind energy awaiting approval to connect to the grid than we currently use from all energy sources. We need grid capacity not new nuclear
@stephenbrickwood1602
@stephenbrickwood1602 5 ай бұрын
@@clarkkent9080 Are you in the USA or Australia or ??? When I speak up I have to take into account that I am in Australia, warm latitudes, Mexican, Sahara desert, Latitudes. Also 80%of the world's population is in warm latitudes. Cold latitude solutions may not be needed in warm latitudes. EVs come with big batteries and most vehicles are parked 23hrs every day. A selfplug in EV could be the way of adding millions of batteries to the grid. Giga Watt hours, gWh, of batteries trading electricity with the national power grid. Distant renewables need expensive grid expansion. In Australia the Snowy 2 projects $2billion budget has exploded to $12billion with the extra grid new construction that is now being included. 66% of electricity bills are grid costs. Grid costs are never discussed in public. Rooftop solar PV and EV big batteries at the millions and millions and millions of grid ends do not need grid expansion. 5times more electricity in the future no fossil fueled world means 5times more electricity Grid for all centralised electricity generation expansion. $million × million klm × 5 = $TRILLIONS And decades and decades and decades
@clarkkent9080
@clarkkent9080 5 ай бұрын
@@stephenbrickwood1602 I live in the U.S. (very diverse weather) and I am supplied with electricity from the only new nuclear projects built in the U.S. (Vogtle unit 3&4) in the last 20 years. I worked in the industry for 40+ years and am pro nuclear but that does not mean that I have to ignore the massive expense and failures here in the U.S.. Every situation is different and I cannot intelligently speak for situations in other countries. But here in the U.S. the elephant in the room is NOT waste, safety, or anything other than COST. I follow the industry here closely and the only SMR project (NuScale) that had a chance of building, just cancelled their project even though they received $2 billion in taxpayer money, free government land on which to build, and full NRC approval. We now have only one other project (Terrapower) that could possibility build and complete a new nuclear project in the next 20 years but they have yet to break ground. We cannot wait 20+ years for nuclear to "get their act together" . Our power supplies will come form old (natural gas) and renewables until fusion or some massive storage capabilities come along.
@fjdhaan
@fjdhaan 5 ай бұрын
EVs will be needed but are a dead end. Infra should be designed around public transport and bike usage, rather than designing cities around people owning motorized personal/family vehicle.
@clarkkent9080
@clarkkent9080 5 ай бұрын
@@fjdhaan That may work in European countries but not in the U.S. where most of the 50 states are larger than most European countries. We think nothing of a 100 mile trip to visit friends.
@thewiseperson8748
@thewiseperson8748 2 ай бұрын
The NuScale design is crap and not innovative. It is merely a miniaturization of known conventional nuclear reactor technology and has all the same inherent problems.
@-LightningRod-
@-LightningRod- 5 ай бұрын
"if" there was a national grid tie, would you Need to build another one tho? VOTE NPC
@sampad2973
@sampad2973 3 ай бұрын
You know you know you know....bullshit talk
@ahuels67
@ahuels67 2 ай бұрын
Hey bud sounds like you wanna drop the gloves here. You wanna dance bud let's dance. (Said in my best Canadian hockey player voice)
@subumohapatra
@subumohapatra 5 ай бұрын
Gen 2 designs are not good but ok. That's not a narrative That's a fact Doctor. Gen 3 + are better.
@christiansmith-of7dt
@christiansmith-of7dt 5 ай бұрын
Maga t's
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