I raised 3 boys. Vocational classes in high school helped my boys the most. They got out of high school with skills to continue in a viable career and actually continue to community college for an associate degree and now are quite successful, happy and making a good salary. Why do we think high school is just to prepare every kid for a 4 year college? How about a successful life! Thanks for the great interview!

The lack of any vocational training is a huge negative for many boys. I went to elementary school with a boy who wasn't academically inclined but he was skilled at building things. He learned photography by age 11. He built a contact printer. But at school he was considered stupid.

Shocking that working class boys are doing worse. It’s almost like having money in your pocket actually makes a difference.

I was a teacher; men don’t put up with degradation which is what teaching has become after the reforms and budget cuts and charter/private businesses had their way with my profession

Interestingly…10 years ago my struggling 3rd grade white son’s education experience was more or less rescued in-part by a very talented, patient yet firm Black male 3rd grade teacher who he really connected with.

Usually these problems get framed as a culture war issue, good to see this discussed in a factual way.

Quite frankly, when my daughter expressed a desire to become a teacher, my response was, no. She is now a successful attorney. Teachers require more respect and higher wages in high schools and below simply to make ends meet.

A huge reason men don't get into teaching is it is so poorly paid for the educational requirements. Men who do enter often quickly get into the higher paid administration roles. As far as college education, there are very few reasonably paid jobs realistically open to women which don't require at least some college. Men still completely dominate most of the trades (electrician, plumber, mechanic, etc), so a lot more of them decide to go that route instead of college.

I recently saw an African proverb which I think describes our situation perfectly: "If the youth are not initiated, they will burn down the village." Our young men are in trouble and no-one seems to know what to do, so at least a book and conversation like this should be appreciated. I would also point people to small global non-profit organizations like Illuman which are forming around the world to "help men become healthier, more authentic men." One of their signature events is a Men's Rite of Passage - "That helps awaken men to the adventure and mystery of their own masculinity, their deep spirituality, and their potential for leadership." We need more of that type of formation for our young men who are lost and broken. Only men can heal men.

Having been a mother of a son and having been a teacher of plenty of boys and young men, I saw the psychological affects of bias against boisterous boys, etc., but I disagree that it was because of a missing rite of passage or masculinity squashing. I think it is precisely that culture that has trapped boys, young men, and older men into thinking they’ve failed at being “men.” We need a culture that allows men to be normal humans, a culture that doesn’t attach their masculinity to their success.

Young people from both genders are struggling more than ever before.

Poorer men keep supporting those richer men who are squeezing them. We keep trying to tell them its not serving them, but are ignored and railed against

My dad was a high school biology/science teacher, and when I was considering a career in science he warned me away from teaching. My mom was a teacher too (elementary music), so to some extent I gravitated toward teaching. He told stories of belligerent administrators, shamefully disrespectful students, mis-allocation of limited resources (new sports facility, but science books that were literally falling apart), administrators who changed grades upwards to meet quotas/benchmarks or stating that no student can fail and everyone must get at least a C, and parents who blamed teachers for Little Precious' failure to turn in assignments or failing tests. So I got my BS in geology with a math minor, and then a MS in hydrogeology and went to work for a Fortune 500 engineering firm as an environmental scientist. I still think of how much I'd have liked to teach, but then discuss the issues with friends that are teachers who describe work conditions that are *much* worse than what my dad described AND low pay.

The last thing any society needs is too many young men with nothing going on, idle

This shit was well understood ten, fifteen years ago. There is no surprise here. The reason it might be surprising is because NO ONE wanted to hear it. But now, as they say, the chickens are coming home to roost.

Surprise! Mentorship from someone you identify with will help more than everything else you can throw at a growth. If we want to live in a world that includes everyone, people need to be nurtured to discover themselves - usually by someone they can actually admire and respect. Looks like a good book and I have a son, so I am going for it!

I have noticed in my family that our young men are struggling more than women and wondered why. I hope these suggestions can be used to improve their lives

Time well spent listening to this. Thank you for bringing us this and the recent Scott Galloway interview about his book "Adrift: America in 100 charts". The theses of these two books together tells us that America (and the UK) is in big trouble. Politicians & journalists need to get serious and stop behaving like society is a circus where we can indulge the clowns and the archetype 'evil genius'. Things are falling apart and if the grown ups don't take charge soon the rot will be terminal.

My dad was dyslexic and enrolled in a technical high school in the 1930s where he learned a myriad of skills that served him all his life and allowed him to make a good living and have self respect. Over the years educational systems removed teaching technical skills and with the demise of unions over the years there were few opportunities to learn carpentry, plumbing, electrical skills, etc on the job. Our labor workforce with these skills is aging with few younger people to take their place. No wonder young people are discouraged and angry

I’m feeling like this should maybe be broken down differently to get to the real truth. For example, completely separate the genders. Compare the boys of today with the boys of 60, 40, and/or 20 years ago. Is it possible that the boys have actually stayed the same, while the girls are finally allowed to live, learn and earn up to the ability that they always had but were prevented from fulfilling?

It is so incredibly rare and refreshing to hear about these topics without the usual political bluster typically associated with it.

We are just so far behind other countries who offer a great focus on the trades. Boys and some women who tend to be more tactile/kinesthetic learners and thrive in work and learning situations which are three dimensional and hands on- This is going to be a problem for our economy and is definitely leading to the mental health issues and aggression we might see in men and boys

He's basically saying that class matters.

So, I'm a guy who taught for ten years, and in the case of boys, I don't feel like the achievement gap is due to school policies, lack of role models, lack of opportunities, etc. The achievement gap largely boils down to how parents socialize their boys. They don't emphasize soft skills, communication, manners, etc. the way they do with girls. Parents today raise girls to be extremely well rounded. They don't do that with boys, especially as you descend the socioeconomic ladder. Boys are still told garbage like, "Be a man" or "Man up." Basically, bottle your rage and energy until you inevitably have an outburst. They're generally only given aggressive toys, or athletic toys. People don't give their boys toys that teach nurturing, media targeted towards boys is still very aggressive, while media targeted towards girls is all about cultivating friendships and interpersonal skills. When was the last time you saw a superhero solve a problem through mutual understanding and compromise? People act like like the achievement gap is a systemic issue in schools, but the way people raise their boys has very little relevance today. English class is fundamentally about being able to communicate, and empathize with others through text. Boys aren't taught to examine their feelings. Of course they have a hard time dissecting the motivations of literary characters. Boys are taught that physical strength and toughness make "a man." There are no white collar jobs where those attributes are called for at all. Blaming parents for societal problems is always unpopular, especially when the issue is that they're "following tradition." In this case though, that's squarely the problem. If the way the achievement gap has flipped in the space of a few generations shows us anything, it's that many of these sorts of issues are caused by socialization. Your kids spend eight hours a day, 180 days of the year at school. That accounts for roughly 16% of their year. The rest of their time is spent at home. Fix parenting instead of blaming schools.

Has he even considered how our culture doesn't encourage boys to be smart? We tell them they need to be in sports stars, not academics. What outcome do you expect when we give them that mentality?

There are other factors. Social media, pressures around body image, coupled with either an absent or emotionally stunted father all have massive impact. Teaching your boys critical thinking (especially around advertising), problem solving, rough and tumble and controlling or channeling your strength and the ability to acknowledge you were wrong and to apologize and make it right are all so hugely important. That, and getting them help external to the school system (which lets be honest doesn't cover all the bases for those who struggle). Give them the tools that will enable resiliency, self-worth and to take on the challenges in life.

For me at least I feel that having witnessed all the hallmarks of adulthood that my parents achieved be denied to me has left me feeling like a failure. Can't have a family if you can't support them. Can't get ahead because we're stuck renting most jobs don't pay enough to survive let alone get ahead. There is no ladder to climb anymore. You either win the birth lottery or you struggle and die.

I'm pleased the following concept got a passing mention near the middle, but one thing that always strikes me is how time gets ignored in gender politics. One of the big reasons that there are still fewer women at the mentioned elite echelons is that reaching that level requires a 30-year career, meaning you're drawing from the demographics of people who were at college in the late 1980s. This is also why it's important to address men's issues now, because the impacts don't play out immediately - they will appear in various ways over the next 40+ years as the current generation age.

Coming from Germany, living in the US, I am very surprised at how society disadvantages women in the US. One always points to the education system as a beacon of female empowerment when actually a critical factor is financial support, social and healthcare support and employment security for women during maternity. The US is extremely underdeveloped in this area compared to many European countries.

I grew up in lower class. Majority of girls outperform guys. I noticed families are putting more pressure and responsibilities on female, especially middle eastern and brown families. I think families should be more though on their sons.

I got the impression he was saying that women’s status and pay, as well as entry into certain professions has improved by almost 40% in a couple of fields (i.e. STEM) so we’d better stop that trend now so that men can catch back up. 40% isn’t very much considering the historical record of how long women were not even allowed in those professions at all, and considering it’s only in two fields he mentioned: STEM and Law. I don’t think men (or society) needs to freak out just yet over that. Women are hardly “taking over the country” just yet, not even close. Why don’t we help women reach EQUALITY in ALL positions, whether vocational, academic or corporate or political or whatever fields they might be interested in. No need to “keep men down”; they (men) will also need help receiving the best education in whatever field they’re interested in as well. We should keep on with that system until all work situations in all businesses are 50/50 men and women, IF there were 50% of women who would want to be in a particular field. If not filled right away to 50%, keep the position open until a woman applies for it. I guarantee it won’t be empty long. I think a wonderful solution, for men and women both, would be to enshrine the Equal Rights Amendment in the Constitution (since it has already been ratified by the required 38 states as of January, 2020, so the 2-year “waiting period” has also already been satisfied). Everybody seems to think the ERA is ONLY about women’s rights (even though that was its PRIMARY intention), it doesn’t even mention women, per se. The text of the ERA says, “Equality of Rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex”. Period. That means that men shall have the same rights as women and vice versa. EQUAL rights. For everybody. Everybody freaks out over it because they seem to think it will make women “more equal” (an oxymoron) than men. Equal means equal. Period. End of story. Can’t we realize that it will help EVERYONE? But, of course, they’re fighting against it in Congress right now because so many male Congressmen (Mitt Romney for one) just can’t stand the thought of women being equal to men, as demonstrated just this year - in the 21st Century no less! - by SCOTUS taking away a Constitutional right from women that they’ve benefited from for 50 years! If we had put the Equal Rights Amendment into the Constitution that couldn’t have happened. But that’s beside the point of the discussion here. I hope you can see how the inclusion of the ERA into the Constitution could be used to help everyone, male or female, or LGTBQ+. Please call and/or send letters to Biden, Harris, your Senators and Representatives pushing them to do this since it will help everyone. The problems in education and the workplace as described in the book discussed shouldn’t have anything at all to do with gender, but about our government’s desire and ability to help ALL it’s citizens through educational, economic and labor standards.

From what I can see very few parents are raising men. I see a lot of overgrown boys entering the workplace, but very, very few young men.

Hmmm…I wonder why male teachers have left teaching… Oh, yea! They won’t stand for the disrespectful pay and treatment! Why do female teachers stay? For some reason we either love teaching or feel that we have few alternative choices.

Its more of an anti-male, anti-masculinity sentiment that has gotten stronger in recent years...THAT is a big problem thats rarely discussed openly.

As an investor in Tanzania, I believe it’s important to point out that I have never been conned by a woman.

Elephant in the room: billionaires, tax codes favoring very few, the destruction of the middle class, the apex of a city or town center lost to shopping malls. I am a feminist and am completely and totally committed to boys' rights. My feminist credentials are human credentials.

This is real amongst young men who are from dysfunctional families. These young men do need help. In particular mental health as well as educational help.

The story of women and girls progressing has a lot to do with necessity. I grew up with a single mother and it was expected that I would go to college and work toward a good job. Because that was my only avenue to a secure future. I think society has assumed that boys are in the power position so they don't have to try as hard and are now more likely to fall into the social trap of drinking and living recklessly in their teens and 20s because movies and music romanticize it. And the boys who don't do that are told they aren't "real men" by society. Part of it is attitude. Which is why that free Kalamazoo program resulted in 0 male grads.

Hello. The disparate differences between boys vs girls described in the book is not new; girls/women have always been ahead in the stem classes, than boys/men by at least a year in emotional and educational development; this is not surprising; I am 83 years, went to a one room school house with all eight grades and my mother was the teacher; I saw the premise of the book back then. The research is right and appropriate for our time. Practicing law for 51 years solo. Victor 😇💃

Every degree does not have equal value. Many graduates are underemployed ( do not work up to their skill kevel) and in debt. Women tend not to apply for roles unless they satisfy all of the requirements. More stratified data and a chart on whether the larger gaps were between females and males from lower income families would be useful. Many classes are still sedentary and structured like classes in the nineteenth century and haven't evolved to help children release energy regularly during the day. A wider variety of mentors and role models would be useful for all.

Boys need men in there lives who are positive role models,right now it seems on social media and in life in general many men behave in an angry,crass,juvenile way.

My boys were at a daycare where the primary caregiver was Mr John - a wonderful man in his 30s who made working with 4-7 year olds his career. My cousin, too, worked in a daycare (his FT job was professional drummer) - and he felt kids benefited from the different energy.

*Dating was always hard for men cause women are hypergamous, they date upwards with age & statu$, men date downwards* . Social media made things a lot harder cause women get an *insane* amount of attention & validation to the point they're *pedestalize* & believe they're special. They're even getting flown out to hang out with celebrities & experience luxury lifestyles...Men are a lot more feminine cause they were raised in single mother households. Some are lazy who play video games & smoke weed all day. They also waste time *simpin* over women on the internet. Feminism has caused a lot of damage too (some women are regretting it now)...What the manosphere/redpill does is motivate men to get their shit together & *build themselves up* . Whether it's with finances, fitness, status, etc. They also help men with *understanding* women nature, cause women are sophisticated creatures

Helping one should not neglect the other. One better than the other is something parents do when they limit their children based on gender. Promote a complete education for any child. This was very good information. I have more nephews than nieces by relation and more nieces than nephews by friendships. We need boys to become successful men so they can be healthy fathers, husbands and community members. We need women to be successful so they can be healthy mothers, wives and community members. The US is also lacking on Emotional Awareness which can impact school and professional success. This is aside from the income issues. We started hearing in the 70s that the job market would change. Anything that is us vs them or 'real' is damaging to all.

An issue with boys and girls is lack of responsibility that is meaningful as they grow up. Do they contribute to the family? do they feel needed within the family? As a child we shared caring for the siblings or helping in the home.The emphasis now seems to be all on external success in sports or academia. There is a lack of duty to others that gives successes meaning. And that is vital whether the future is in a vocation or academia.

The military has an interesting system. Advancement in rank happens through two criteria: time in, and skill acquisition. If you don't advance, attention is applied to you, or else you wake up and work on your skills. Everyone gets shuffled along, and you get meaningful responsibility early in life.

It's Shocking that someone pays any attention to males and their wellbeing!

I have 2 exceptional children. My daughter is 30, my son 26 -27 in Dec. Shes a bartender. Loves it. She also excelled in school/sports. Excells at all jobs. Could do medical coding but prefers hands on labor! Totally helped my niece organize her organic farm duties. My son, excelled in high school/sports. Went to school for nursing, stopped to become a Firefighter, went back for his RN, is an EMT, & now doing paramedic training. Its parenting. Be a better parent than your own parents. Parents are a childs 1st teacher. Couldn't be more proud of both my babies!! They're the best;)

Any thoughts on the influence of easily accessible porn, video games, and general culture?

Our sons need education in emotional intelligence.

This was a very good insight and I'm glad I didn't scroll past it like I was going to because of the title. But listening to the author really had me thinking. Thanks.

In the country I grew up in the high school was set up so those wanting and testing as such went to college prep and those that had an interest and aptitude for welding or horse training went to school in the morning and to their master welder or master horse trainer in the afternoon where they worked towards their trade license. It wasn’t a male female thing that directed the trade choice or college choice, it was aptitude and interest.

This is a country whose attitude towards the teaching profession is summed up in the phrase: those who can, do; those who can't, teach.

One problem is: For the first 20 years of your life in the United States, you are expected to be NFL TOUGH. Then, by the you are 30; women and some are asking you, "Why are you not sensitive?"

I am a female that works in the trades and love it. Our education system fails anyone who has difficulty with sitting still in a classroom, prefers doing hands on activities rather reading about those activities. Education needs to develop more trade skills at earlier ages expose both boys and girls to basic carpentry, auto mechanics, home repair, gardening in school in elementary school. Also extend recess we fundamentally for all intents and purposes torture children that need to physically move during the day by eliminating physical activities. More boys than girls fall into this category. There are many good jobs out in the economy that don’t require being chained to a desk but we are doing a lousy job preparing our young people for these jobs

My entire life girls were expected to behave better than boys in many ways. We expect girls to behave and we communicate that to them in many ways. That includes sitting in a chair and reading, doing schoolwork and even crafts

I appreciate his insights, and think there is indeed a problem, but how is the fact that women start falling behind when they have children considered NOT a gender issue? It's not exactly the same kind of gender discrimination we saw in the 1950s, but it's obviously a type of gender discrimination. What a strange way for him to frame the issue. The modern workplace is obviously designed to prioritize the interests of men.

As a private tutor and teacher. Way more family's of lower middle class are willing to pay for a tutor for their daughters but few for their sons. Upper class family's pay for sons and daughters at roughly equal rates.

This is a huge contributing factor to rising crime rates.

As much as US infrastructure needs overhaul, men can get out here and fix these roads, bridges, build electric trains, work on our water systems, our power grids!! Women can design but men can bring it to life!

Very interesting piece. I would've like to hear a little more about the WHY certain groups of boys/men are falling behind. The comments about boys needing more adult support re: completing assignments on time and "red-shirting" due to slower developmental timelines suggest perhaps "natural" gender differences, while girls needing less discrimination, more opportunity, and more role models suggest environmentally driven gender differences. I wonder about the cultural and other environmental influences on the outcomes of less privileged boys/men. For instance, what is society's view about boys/men pursuing "women's" work? Women tend to be over-represented in fields providing direct care to children, esp. younger children. These fields also happen to pay less and have fewer benefits. Meanwhile, men are in fact better represented in teaching fields at the high school and post-secondary level. Why? Could it be that those teaching positions are viewed less as "women's" work and more prestigious? As others have said, fields seen as more "manly" still suffer from over-representation of men (and minorities), such as trades and IT. So, the push for more men -- esp. men of color, esp. in the earlier grades, esp. in subjects traditionally seen as less "manly" -- to teach is a potentially helpful strategy. But more systemic level strategies might be needed to adjust what it means for a boy/man to be successful and why it's ok if there is overlap with what it means for a girl/woman to be successful. This piece might also want to bring up the urgency of dealing with boys/men feeling jilted while being owed something, because there are gender differences in how people respond to resentment, insecurity, and perceived injustice.

The way to battle this malaise that plagues men today is to fight toxic masculinity. It’s no accident that men are more likely to commit s*incide than women. Boys need to be taught that connecting to their feelings, being vulnerable and open minded are tools that will only help men achieve better outcomes in life.

i really appreciate the nuance and care that the author has. very refreshing!

This analysis has to go deeper. Something IS going on with boys and men. They are being less successful than they have been in the past. I believe their frustration with this can be seen in the increased level of violence, particularly gun violence, that we see in society today. It’s not just that boys are achieving less academically, it is that their role models- the image of the “successful male” have changed. It’s no longer the well-schooled individual, who is now considered to be elitist or effeminate, who is admired; it is the “Rambo” man of action. The truth is that boys need better role models in ALL levels of our society beyond just placing men in the classroom. While I agree that we want every person in society to be successful, I feel that this assessment will be interpreted by many that boys are failing because girls have been accommodated and received “special privileges” that boys have not gotten. The answer, for these folks then, would be to change society back to what it once was… repressive to women.

It bothers me that the lowest level of "higher education" is a 4 year degree. Trade schools exist, and they churn out quality plumbers, electricians, carpenters etc. every day, most of whom are men. The reality is higher education is not as important anymore. I don't understand why we care so much if not as many men know the difference between a conjunctive and an adjective. We have too many teachers and writers and journalists and marketers and not enough tradesmen. Which is why everyone who goes to a 2 year school trade school that I know is earning as much or more than people who got a "higher education", and they did it in half the time and with less than half the debt.. I agree with this guy that men struggle more in school, but that is only true when it comes to traditional education, not vocational education.

I am glad this matter is discussed and written about.

This guy is fantastic. He is using language to his best to prevent a unnecessary backlash to an obvious issue. Bravo

People are overlooking the obvious, and that’s the loss of cultural power. Women have been slow but surely gaining as their rights have been legally upheld and expanded. If you ask me, todays young men are suffering from their own perceived gender bias without the actual benefit of the gender bias that created the inequality their fathers enjoyed. Males becoming teachers will help, only because young men still don’t respect women. But the demands of success, are the ability to provide. The ability to provide qualifies us to mate and that prohibits taking teaching seriously. That’s a loss for all of us. I joke with my wife all the time, who has a masters degree in education and is a fantastic teacher by saying, “ at least you married well. “ Our boys are falling behind because the rules have changed. The rules should have never been what they were. Now they have to compete and get ahead based on merits. The merit of being the stronger of the sexes doesn’t mean two shits as they plod along in their lives. Oooops, should have been paying attention in English. And oops we as a society should get them the message. You’re entitled to nothing. Literally nothing. You want it, work for it.

This was a very thoughtful and excellent interview and a book that I definitely want to read.

Great discussion - thank you.

As adults why can we not hold two thoughts at the same time? This is silly. We can help boys and girls at the same time.

I come from a time when sexes were often seperated for schooling. The boys had male teachers who, I felt, even then, were better able to work with the issues of young men. Maybe it's time to return to that format. Boys & girls mature at different rates & learn in different ways. Lets gear learning to those curves.

I am 60 years old. When I was in school I was not guided toward math or science at all. Thank goodness they finally pushed females forward in this area. My sons friends who are all males are all top students and are going into engineering which a overwhelming male.

I'm a feminist and having husbands and wives both flourish is what's best for kids and society.

It’s interesting, my sons one male teacher in elementary school helped him tremendously. I think boys do need role models, especially those living in poverty where their fathers are more likely to be absent for many reasons.

As a man and step-dad to my son, I feel what the US needs most is to value education a lot more. I think women mature faster and wake up to needing higher education a lot faster than males do. When I was 20 the future was a month away at most, and women my age were no longer falling for the local rock singer and were getting college catalogs in the mail. Look at the immigrants who move here and seriously kick-butt in school. They are male and female AND come from a culture that values education. We don't live the 1950s when low skill could make serious $. Males will always mature more slowly than females. It's great that women don't face so many obstacles anymore but the men not doing as well as men in the 50s has to do with the nature of jobs these days. With automation, low skill jobs are going away. We need to make education one of the most important American values.

Everyone earns less since 1979 😂

Great interview, Hari!

3:46 "Most American men makes less now than most American men did in 1979." What happened in the 1980s and since? Reaganomics. Trickle down economics has nearly destroyed opportunity for most Americans. Now we compete to subsist. Vote blue.

Why can’t we just promote all of our children regardless of sex. Everyone can achieve anything. As a society we can encourage and celebrate this time of discovery in youths lives. I see many people my age (60) or older being afraid of youth. Perhaps we should promote ways of joining the two together to learn from each other.

Don't worry, guys. Life is SUPPOSED to be a struggle. If it wasn't, we'd all be bored out of our minds. Struggle on. Women are struggling too.

Ms. Amanpour; You're one of the rare people I would trust w this topic.

I held my son back a year and developmentally it made all the difference because he was able to focus more and to have a greater ability to manage his own wants and desires. He then by default could reason and process concepts more effectively. He currently has two male teachers and a male mentor at his freshman year in high school and I’m thrilled he’ll get to see different men teaching and sharing their experiences.

I think one of the most impactful reasons why boys have lost so much ground academically is that, males have bought into the anti- intellectualism much more than females. I teach English in high school in a lower economic rural area. Higher education is not valued, especially among the boys. It’s not cool or masculine. Partly, men have felt that they are being done wrong by the fact that times have changed. Also, our kids have been shielded from consequences. A D is now passing and I can’t give a grade lower than 50%. The world doesn’t work like that. And I think that women know that they are going to have to work harder to achieve their goals so they look to any tool that will help them. Better grades and higher education are two of those tools. Kids think they are going to live comfortably with all their nice cars, expensive phones and video games with little or no effort. Girls know they may end up as a single mom and be responsible for supporting a family, this keeps them motivated. I wish we had the same school system that Australia has. At about 16, kids decide if they want to continue with traditional academic education or learn a trade. Businesses or industry “ hires” them at a lower rate while they are in an apprenticeship program for a few years. This allows students to learn usable skills without wasting time in a learning environment that might not suit them and not become victims of expense for profit trade schools after high school. This also acknowledges that not every job and person needs a college degree.

I believe this scenario has a bearing on the turn to the right in politics.

Paradox is the nature of life. Everyone who tries to over simplify a thing is likely selling something. I appreciate this discussion.

What a great interview! these two are so well spoken

Elementary school teachers were pushed to focus on encouraging girls into STEM and math for 20 years. This is the result. Extraordinary.

I believe CEOs tend to be older, so the stats haven't yet caught up to their bracket. Like any wave, it can only move at a certain speed. It will be interesting to see if more college degrees presages more executive arrests in future years, and whether it will be linear or still lag.

Richard Reeves is the man!! Love his brilliant book, "Dreamhoarders", about the top 19 percent upper middle class while they've "left the rest in the 80 percent in the dust! So apropos these days, unfortunately! Thank you Amanpour & Co, will add this recent book to my ever long reading list! "knowledge is power".....self-empowerment!

The middle-class had been destroyed in case no one's noticed.

Great discussion. As always Hari Srinivasan’s objective interviewing helps with trusting this to be a good source. One question i do have is this: the interventions have worked superbly well per the data. But why is it that the same measures have not for the African American males? Another question is are the women pursuing PhD because of not able to find good jobs and knowing there is wage inequality?

An insightful and mature discussion about an important topic.

In my senior year of high school in English class, I was having a back and forth about an element of a book we had just read. The discussion touched on a topic we had learned about the year before in history class. I looked over at the girl next to me, and I said "you have no idea what we're talking about do you?" She said she didn't. I said "we learned this last year in history class. You got an A on the test and I got a C." She confessed again she remembered none of this. My "C" grade was lower than hers, but I actually thought about the stuff we had learned. Probably, I just didn't find 20% of the information we had learned to be very interesting, so I didn't file it away. But I added what I did find interesting into my memory. She, on the other hand, memorized for the test, dumped all the data. So how do we take that into account? How do you grade for that? How do you grade for a student who is truly engaged but not exactly making the effort to get high grades VS a student who is engaged for the sake of grades? I think the answer is that you don't, and that our entire education system is just measuring the wrong things. Also, the dumbing down of education is incredibly demoralizing for people who do take an interest in the topics. And that is, so a friend tells me, based on a misreading of Dewey.

I'm 65 years old and up until the the mid 80's the school district that I was educated in had tax paper high school vocational training before the funding for the program ended and that created LPN's, mechanics, carpenter and HVAC courses, they were tested by the state in order to qualify for employment, then for profit technical schools started cropping up everywhere, I felt it was money well spent, at least it kept people off public assistance and gainfully employed.

I recently sat in with 150 - 200 College Grads in Chennai , India and based on that I can say that I too strongly felt this way.....This is a serious problem. I'm so glad women are doing well but my concern is about men. I was deeply disappointed and concerned with the performance of the 23-25-year-old men on how low their confidence levels were and how poorly they were performing. I think COVID-19 had a real impact on them. In general, I felt that their level of confidence was very very low. This needs to be addressed or else we will have lots of social problems. Out of 150 Interviewed 120 men and 30 women and we found 10 men and 10 women meeting our Expectations and that says a lot about their standard levels

Amazing, insightful and thought provoking. Thanks for sharing this interview.

Great conversation

Female high school English teacher here, and I can definitely attest to girls seeming naturally more interested in stories in general, more compassionate readers, and often better writers. When I work 1-to-1, I often work with boys first - and longer - to help bridge the gap. I can't relate to some of what's being discussed because in Canada, the teaching profession is far more respected and compensated. Half of the teachers in my school's English Dept. are men.

Great! I’m looking forward to the day when we have 9 women in the Supreme Court.