I like how when she goes into her growl your software just says "fuk it, I don't even know what's happening". LoL

The Charismatic Voice does a lot of investigation into how screaming and other distorted vocals work. She's even worked with scientists studying the voice and had them use a scope to view Will Ramos' vocal chords while he's making some of his extreme sounds. She also has a great interview with Tatiana.

When I first saw that "live" performance, I noticed the extra production elements and thought to myslef "that's not live!" I still loved it though

I've seen her alive and she sounds very similar to me. Not saying that she doesn't clean it up for Post-production or whatever. But she really is an amazing singer. The whole band is amazing in my opinion.

Yes definitely not “live” like we expect but I have seen her live and she is Excellent

Definitely check out her actual live concert performances. She's one of the best in the bis currently

The human being’s ability to dance around perfection, in this case pitch and rhythm, is the very source of the beauty and meaning in the music. It is quite literally the imperfections that create the goosebumps.

I'm glad you explained how this is achieved. It makes a lot of sense and now I can identify what I was hearing. I love her voice. She's a very beautiful person as well as a beautiful and beastly vocalist. She's an amazing talent and her band is also amazing.

there are very big differences between screams and grouls btw .. but getting into harsh vocals is like experiencing a hole new universe of vocals

Fil's face says it all even before he speaks. Oh the pain.

Look at Jinjer doing Perrenial live at Waken 2019. I think the live version being referred to by a lot of reactors is that one.

When you listen to her singing Pisces live then you can hear the difference in pitch. She said in an interview that this is not her favorite song. She is really good live, but she seems also not afraid to let us hear some flaws when she does not hit the right tone, .... so she is forgiven the pitch correction 😀

This was made to showcase the band's new drummer Vlad. So they're basically playing to their record from their album and they mixed in Tati's vocals from that album as well to fill it out. Even though the instruments were all live.

She’s the first female vocalist that I ever heard performing harsh vocals. I really enjoy her regular singing voice, and the harsh vocals punctuate the emotion. It makes more sense when you understand the subject matter. It’s definitely an acquired taste, but this group is talented. They put on a good live show.

Great vid. I picked up on the doubled vocals guitars but other little things I wasn't aware of. I love that you're making me a more active listener. Great stuff.

This was hilariously interesting. Appreciate you exposing your own potential vulnerabilitues in this analysis lesson.

That extreme vocal technique is called death growling, not screaming. She's not the only female metal vocalist that can do it.

These videos are so interesting. Thanks.

Great analysis! Congrats!!

Can't express how disappointed I am all this is going on...never even imagined it..

They always play live with backing tracks. I think most of them are tracks actually from the albums. During a tour after the lockdowns opened up, Vlad tested positive for 'Rona mid-tour, so they just piped in his drum parts from Mr. Laptop in addition to the backing tracks for a few shows instead of cancelling.

There is a thrill in seeing a band or musician live that one doesn’t always get from a recording, they are 2 different experiences. Granted some are quite good at recreating the studio sound but experiencing a variation from the original is one of the joys of a live performance.

Very cool breaking this down, love it, & as always giving me an appreciation for something I otherwise might not have?

Thanks Fil! In fact, there is a lot in common between the rasp technique You use and Tatiana’s growl. You hear the note because all types of screams are based on the vocal folds. In this case, false folds, cartilages and the epiglottis (not always included) act as a filter, i.e. impart chaos to the sound waves that create the vocal folds (which simply cut the flow of exhaled air into equal parts at different speeds). And the sound will depend on the degree of compression of the larynx (twang), the position of the larynx, the degree of closure and compression of the vocal cords (chest sound, falsetto or even whistle) and the position of the jaw and tongue.

Haha! Jinjer snags another one! You Were Not PREPARED! hehe hehe hehe

Love this band...saw them 2016 thru 2020 probably 6 or7 time in small venues of like 50-100 people or even smaller. Great band great show..was cool to see them before the broke out and then after

A couple notes I’d add as I’m watching…the original video description is quite clear that this was “produced up” from “live” - and was intended as an introduction to their new (at the time) drummer, Vlad. There are indeed backing tracks involved, but one major difference between this recording and what was released on the King Of Everything album is the middle guitar bridge. It’s an acoustic guitar on the album, but Roman plays the line on the electric in this video.

Fairy Voice Mother does an excellent demonstration of the false cord technique that Tati probably uses. A good example of Jinjer performing live is their Wacken performance of Perennial. I love this band, in case you couldn’t tell. 😅

Thank you, Fil!

Jinjer deliver it live seen them twice.. try a live preformance

Phenomenal analysis, Fil! I enjoyed this immensely, though I was quite familiar with this performance already.

We moved past authenticity long ago. I don't trust anything any more. Thanks for these breakdowns. 👍

Yes, this is certainly not a "live" performance we're seeing. I do recall Tatiana, in an interview, regretting that this was labeled as live, since it was kind of a new version of this song, since they had a new drummer, at this time. I was hoping to get a bit of commentary on the time signature changes, bass tapping, etc. But, maybe the plan was to focus on her voice, which generally steals the show. 😁

Tatiana went back into the studio and laid down the harmony parts and some guitar parts were also laid down. Seen them 6 times live so far and she never fails to deliver. You should check out Judgement and Punishment, which is a 1 take performance by Tatiana. Would love to see if you think that has been corrected as well. Cheers!

Another observation. In the pre-recorded version, when Tatyana does the short belted part near the end, there is also scream vocal at the same time. This could easily have been done here given that there was vocal doubling at various points anyway. I'm assuming they chose not to do that so that it would sound more "live". Obviously everyone would know you can't belt and scream at the same time and whilst people also know you can't double your own vocal live, a doubled scream would be less obvious to many listeners. Interestingly, when it is performed live on stage Tatyana usually just does the scream and drops the belt.

I’m so glad you took a look at a “screamer” vocalist! As I’ve mentioned in the past, my adult son is a drummer in a heavy metal local band. I know that their screamer took vocal lessons so as not to hurt his throat and vocal cords. I wondered if they were on pitch. I have listened to many heavy metal screamers over these many years, both from local performers live, and from the more prominent professional’s recorded music, (Pantera, Korn, Hatebreed), as it is my son’s music of choice. To this day, that is what is playing in his car, although he does appreciate, classical music, jazz (as a drummer, he prefers “non-four/four” beats…he double pedals and does 32nd beats), Dave Mathew’s, and FRANK SINATRA! I was stunned that the screamer in the recording was the same female vocalist as in the rest of the performance! That girl has the scream down!

Interesting as always... Thanks...

Well...DANG !!! Took me by surprise...Very entertaining...

I believe the technique is called "growling." I read this was actually the first time playing with the new drummer, who kills it btw, so it was more of a vibe session that was recorded "live".. but that Doesn't mean it wasn't run through processors after 🤷🏾‍♂️

Echoing the requests for Perennial live at Wacken 2019, very interested to hear what you make of that performance!

They are absolutely incredible live. I don’t care about tweaks in production for albums when I know you can produce it live. She laid down the backing tracks before they recorded this. Vlad on stage is the one that is controlling the backing production.

The problem here is the people that titled the video. “Live studio recording” is a bit of a misnomer. It’s obviously not live in a sense that would meet any common definition. That’s clearly apparent. “Studio” indicates that it was mixed and mastered. That includes pitch correction in any modern studio.

Absolutely fantastic have a wonderful day ❤😊😊

I’ve never been so glad to hear, “and there we have it!”. Pleasssse don’t ever make that sound again. I had to hide under the bed. 🤣 This is the music of my nightmares! Elizabeth on the Charismatic Voice has been really delving into this demon singing and learning to do it herself. I can’t listen to it. Pitch correction and demons in one track! I’m sure my younger cousin loves this band. He played Slayer for hours at his wedding reception and It was painful! Just NOT my cup of tea, to put it mildly. Your ears should be insured, Fil. I don’t know how you do it. Great analysis!

Thank you! Very interesting. I really don't like this kind of music either, just like you, but you made the analysis very interesting. A good friend of mine likes this kind of music, and that's why I really appreciate your analysis of it.

Most metal screaming is much louder than most singing. Belting comes close but belted screams are still typically louder. You can make the scream noises quiet but it would sound quite weak and fake. The emotion is the important part of screaming. And now that it has become popularized you are finding a lot of metal vocalists sound more mechanical.

Interesting stuff.

I've seen them live and they are excellent. Tatiana is great live as both a singer and front woman. I think you get a good impression of her singing voice from this, despite the pitch correction. She is entirely self taught; learnt the screaming technique by screaming into a pillow (true!).

Actually you can double track guitars automatically by using plug ins in Protools. The drums also sound like they were processed using beat detective

24 minutes of my life I will not be wishing I could get back. It was time well spent.

thanks for the explanation. educational.

I saw them live last September and I can tell you that she can hit all the notes, belts, growls, and screams in a live show. Also, yes they use very subtle backing tracks that are usually only light synth for dramatic effect. That said... Folks see the words live session in the video title and assume a lot. The pure listener just enjoys the intimate setting of the studio and watching them play the instruments. Musicians get wrapped up in the fact that any post-production on the audio negates all of the live aspect. Engineers take it even further and start picking apart whether they hear a live effect, overdub, multi-tracking, voice correction, backing tracks, etc. So....the title says live session which is misleading to some. Something to note on this video is that this song is from a previous album with a different drummer. If you listen to the drums on the original studio version the drums are WAY different. (I'd even say they suck in my opinion.) This video is of the live session where they are re-recording the song with (and introducing) their new drummer, Vlad. Therefore the live session verbiage refers to the visual representation. This is very similar to videos you see out there with live footage of the band synced up with the pre-recorded studio audio.

The video is labeled Live SESSIONS. Plural. They are not hiding the fact they are layering the tracks and post producing. There may be a loss of translation here, English is not their first language.

Hello, I don't know if someone pointed out that this is a studio live version recorded in one take and POST PRODUCED, it's written in the description of the video, the say it clearly, nothing to be surprised for

It’s totally obvious that this is not entirely/purely live: even through KZfaq you can hear dubbing or a second/third take in many places here. I think it’s a given that a live session today will hardly be non-produced and that’s the reason why musically educated reactors don’t even mention it. I‘ve seen Jinjer live and I’m totally convinced that the band is the real deal though. They are great musicians.

Some people say her harsh vocals sound "demonic". I've also heard it described at "the boss monster in a video game". What it reminds me of is a mountain lion; the kind you don't want to hear at midnight when you're camping in the mountains. I think there are natural sounds in our common background which we fear, either instinctually or culturally, through stories which make use of elements that have been symbolized that way.

"Reaction" channels generally pander to fans, so I suspect that those that are opera singers etc often *can* hear autotune/putch correction, but don't say anything because it will be unpopular.

Yeah, I never understood how anyone thought this was "live." It's not just the vocals. Everything is perfectly in time and in tune in a way that live performances just aren't. I swear, people have become so used to hearing extreme post-production that they've forgotten what actual live musicians sound like. NO ONE sounds this perfect. It's not possible. I think the reason none of the vocal coach reaction videos have mentioned the pitch correction is because reaction videos tend to be very positive. That's how you get hits. Fans want to hear their favorite band praised. I'm sure many of the reactors were aware that the song wasn't "live." How could they not be? If they're opera singers, they've performed with orchestras and other classically trained singers. They've heard some of the best musicians in the world. They know that even those musicians don't sound this perfect. I think they're just choosing not to mention it in the videos because they'd rather focus on the positive (the singer's tone, her technique, etc).

Yep, this video was made to showcase Vlad when he was new in the band. I'm pretty sure that was its only intended purpose. It was unintended that it should go viral the way it did, as if it was intended to be a live showcase for Tatiana's voice. It's not. If that's what you want, check out (for one example) the video for Perennial live at Wacken 2019, or Tatiana's vocal one-take of Judgement & Punishment. I'm quite sure in fact that she's simply lip syncing to the recorded track from the album. It's not just pitch correction, all the studio stuff is there. Every vocal nuance is identical to the album track from King of Everything. You can hear the punch-ins in the same places and all. There's double tracking, including the whisper. Delay, compression, and all the rest. They just took the harsh vocal overdub out behind the belting part toward the end. Which actually makes it an excellent lip sync. So good it fools most people. And it's no different from what every Vocalist does on every music video. "Live session" means different things to different bands and producers; here it just means live drums to showcase the new drummer, in a "live in studio" setting. It sounds to me as if the only changes made were to completely change the drums to Vlad; to take out the acoustic guitar at the beginning of the "Neptune's child" part, and to remove the overdubbed scream. And to add one extra note at the very end of the song! On the record it's two phrases of four; here it's a four and a five. So the guitar and bass parts were probably redone for the last part, "emeralds are ripped away." Other than that I think it's really a regular music video with maybe live recorded drums. As it was intended to be.

omgosh! 😂😂😂😂 “sounding like a demon”… I literally laughed out loud!! 😂😂😂😂❤

actually it's called growling

i think better songs to do this analysis for would be Judgement & Punishment vocal one-take video . there are also several high-quality concert videos floating around.

Not my preference for music at all, but your breakdown is fascinating. Thanks

Just for mentioning it. This video was released to introduce the new drummer.

Lets see what we have here. This video is actually some kind of OMV for the song. Don't you mind when some OMV has obvious postproducted sound of studio recording? I guess nowadays pretty much every OMV in the world has this kind of sound. Usually (oftenly) OMVs use the audio from the studio recording. In this case though they wanted to replace drumming because their new drummer did some cool stuff and the song sounds better. So they took the studio recording and partly replaced it with the sound recorded at the live session. Vocal wasn't recorded in this case, they took it from the studio recording (with a small fix, they removed additional growling layer in the belting part). So it's obviously not the true live session as is. It's even not just post producted, it's more preproducted because they used previously recorded track. But partly it uses sound from the live session. So it's like OMV but it's more live than usually you'd exptect from OMV. They placed this information in description. But I agree that it's not fair enough to put the words "live session" to the title of this video. The band members complained about it too in some interviews. As I can see this was Napalm's decision. Ironicly this video could be the worst representation of Tataiana's live vocal abilities. There're tons of live videos of this band on youtube. Not only official live, many amatour fan videos too. It's easy to check out the real live (concert) sound of Tatiana's vocal. It's obvious that she has great but not perfect vocal and the same song never sounds the same in different live videos. And of course it never sounds the same as it is on studio recording. Most Jinjer fans would say that this band is better live. And here's one of the reasons why - overproduction. This vocalist doesn't need to be pitch corrected. But some (many?) studio tracks has it anyways.

I have no words for this one! Another not live ! Fil , please don't talk like a demon , you are scaring me ! 😢

Fil, you're so good

Good one Fil

In the description underneath their original video they wrote how live it is. Basically they re-recorded the song in a studio with a new drummer. They did a live recording and then added a few backing vocals and guitars.

Yeah, I also noticed that this was very heavily produced, but that doesn't necessarily bother me. You should definitely check out a live performance, because I'd be very interested to hear your opinion. Yes, they do use recorded backing vocals during live shows, but it'd be interesting to see if she also gets pitch corrected. In any case, I think the whole band does a brilliant job live.

I just love you, my man, best explanation and great entertainment with distorted voice! ❤

It's everywhere so ive stopped care, as long as the artist can preforme it live or acapella. The problem i have with this pitch thing is, music dosn't need to be perfect as long as it dosn't sound way off, how someone deliver is as important as how it sounds.

I have seen so many reactions/analyses to this video and while they talked about post production, no one talked about pitch correction. So glad you did this.

This song seriously never gets old, shes like an ACTUAL siren, lures you in with her beautiful voice and then devours you with those growls . This is one of the best vocal tracks I have ever heard.

Dear Mr FIL. Could you please analyze a live Jinger track? I ask because I prefer their live performances. In a lot of the live performances, I feel I hear Tatiana's real voice. She sometimes struggles hitting certain notes and I do not hear any autotune or pitch correction. However some of the live tracks have definitley been tweaked post-production because they do use backing tracks. But some of the live recordings are much more raw and less refined.

I'll leave the question of whether the pitch has been corrected (or she's just that good), alone, but as to the double tracking, it's listed in the description of the original video: "...did a live recording and shooting, then added over some extra lines, like a few backing vocals and guitars...".

Lol, your poor software didn't know what to do. Man I love your videos, Fil.

She has trained herself to utilize her false vocal cords. That way she doesn't tear up her voice. She did work specifically to NOT sound like a female screamer, and that's her real accomplishment.

What the hell with they do next, start altering the pitch of Ian Gillan or Robert Plant???

I think too many people forget that a song (with or without video or other imagery) is an artistic production, not a vocal (or instrumental) purity test. Is a photograph less "authentic" because darkroom techniques like 'dodging' and 'burning', colour filtering and textured paper have been used to give the final print particular qualities? _Of course_ Jinjer use backing tracks and effects to augment their live performances - just like most other professional level bands in the 21st century. This is very obvious and no-one imagines otherwise: what matters is the artistic result. No-one complains that, for example, symphonic metal bands (almost) never appear with a live symphony orchestra and choir performing alongside them, nor should they. Analyses like these are very interesting, and reveal details about music production usually unknown to the average listener, but I hope no-one runs away with the idea that they are being deliberately deceived.

Some call it 'growling' while others call it 'false chord', which is the technical term. So that's when you go very low and add vocal distortion, like you described. Used a lot in Death and Doom Metal music (and many more). At the end she goes from using False Chord to 'Fry Scream'. Very popular in Black Metal etc. With False Chord you exhale a lot of air while going very deep. With Fry Scream you add more pressure to your exhaling while tightening your vocal muscles. This uses way less air and with a little practice will let you hold a 'note' for 20 seconds quite easily. Some can even hold it for more than 60 seconds, which is quite banans. However, be careful while practicing these techniques and do it slowly and warm up beforehand. Thanks for the video.

Tatiania live (not session xD) will blow your socks off!

There's both a healthy and an unhealthy way of growling (or screaming, the two terms are used interchangeably). The way you demonstrated it sounded like the unhealthy way to me, which is to say you were using your vocal chords to achieve it. In the short term this can make your voice sound raspy after doing it for more than a song or two, long term it can completely blow out your voice and cause permanent damage. The "healthy" way of growling involves producing the vocals higher up in the throat without engaging the vocal chords. This is why Tatiana is able to switch back and forth between growling and singing so cleanly.

yeah i mean people are having a laugh if they dont think this is heavily post-processed as are all their official releases. but they're also one of the best live bands there is

The video was made to showcase the drummer who was new and thought he could add something to the song.

A song is a product and as a product it has to be sold in the best conditions and remastered for sale both physically and on digital platforms. All artists undergo vocal retouching. "Live Session" makes more reference to the experience and the arrangement live. The production details, if subtle, do not detract from the vocal talent of the artist or the skills of the band members. I recommend reacting to their song "Perennial" Live at Wacken..

Fil, I love the way you fight! But sometimes I lose my confidence and fear that you will lose 😞

Music Master You Are

I can make sound! 😂😂😂

Fil, you're brilliant and I enjoy your videos so much. Thank you.

Explanations: This is mostly the audio from the album version. The video was filmed during a live session rehearsal with their new drummer and they decided to make the video to introduce him. Their sound engineer took the drums of Vlad to replace the original drums in the mix and made just a few changes in the original mix (especially a double-layered voice at the end that was removed). So yeah, it's post-produced. It's the album version remixed with a new drum recorded live, over a video of a live session. :)

that's where we are in society where everything has to be correct even when it's not. One small factor where we have to manufacture sights and sounds. Hope in future we will be able to recognize a bird signing.

I need a drink😜😱

It's what kids do when they wanna sound like a monster. Or, that one kid from Little Rascals, Frog.

Fil sounds like "Dr. Claw" (Inspector Gadget's nemesis).

Is it a manipulation of vocal fry? Fil, I love your channel and it's so educational and fun. Do you only look at musicians/singers that Patreons request?

For the double tracking of the guitar... if you see the orig. video, they did make a few takes, watch Tatiana her hands on the mic for example. Maybe that´s the way they did the production and took the best parts and double track the guitar.

Thanks for this very informative and well done video.

"Don't look too long into the abyss, or the abyss will look into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

Thanks for introducing me to Jinjer. I can now comment about Prince Hal on Msn.