Old testament scholar supports the Book of Mormon!?

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Old testament scholar supports the Book of Mormon!?

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Mormonism with the Murph

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@Kevin-ts7hf 6 ай бұрын

As someone investigating the church, Margaret Barker’s work is by far the most compelling scholarly evidence of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. The amount of dots it connects is mind-boggling.

@mormonismwiththemurph 6 ай бұрын

That's so cool!

@randyjordan5521 6 ай бұрын

Cool! Now we all need is some actual physical evidence that the Book of Mormon people existed anywhere in the Americas.

@naticusrex 6 ай бұрын

I'm a big fan, too. But I think Brian Stubbs has the best evidence.

@james8996 6 ай бұрын

@@mormonismwiththemurphthe book of Mormon is nothing but Plagiarism of the Bible, Joseph Smith is Nephi because Lehi never existed, because didn't No Israelite family come here in 600 bC ,

@Sirach144 6 ай бұрын

Jesus is not Jehovah. 1. Jesus said he was anointed by Jehovah. See Isaiah 61:1 cf. Luke 4:18. Jesus said he was anointed by Jehovah. -”The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is upon me; because Jehovah hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek….” Isaiah‬ ‭61‬:‭1‬ ‭ASV‬‬ ”The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor: He hath sent me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised,“ ‭‭Luke‬ ‭4‬:‭18‬ ‭ Jesus thus showed he was anointed by Jehovah. 2. Jesus sits at Jehovahs right hand. Psalm 110:1 cf Hebrews 10:12-13 ”Jehovah saith unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, Until I make thine enemies thy footstool.“ ‭‭Psalms‬ ‭110‬:‭1‬ ‭ASV‬‬ ”but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; henceforth expecting till his enemies be made the footstool of his feet.“ ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10‬:‭12‬-‭13‬ ‭ASV‬‬ Jesus this sits at the right hand of Jehovah. 3. Exodus 3:15 says that Jehovah is the God or Abraham Isaac and Jacob. The God of our forefathers. Then in Acts 3:13 says Jesus is the Son of the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. ”And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.“ ASV ‭‭Exodus‬ ‭3‬:‭15‬ ‭ ”The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Servant Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied before the face of Pilate, when he had determined to release him.“ ‭‭Acts‬ ‭3‬:‭13‬ ‭ 4. Jesus quoted the OT to Satan and said “Go away Satan for it it written It if the LORD to the God you must worship…”. He read from the scripture about Jehovah. ”And Jesus answered and said unto him, It is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.“ ‭‭Luke‬ ‭4‬:‭8‬ ‭ He quoted Deut 6:13 “”Thou shalt fear Jehovah thy God; and him shalt thou serve, and shalt swear by his name.“ ‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭6‬:‭13‬ ‭ Jesus told Satan to worship Jehovah.

@MichaelGMoney 6 ай бұрын

MURPH!!!! NO WAY!!!! Dude, you and the stick of Joseph guys are killing it with guests. Margaret Barkers books are awesome, I've re read the great high priest and temple theology 2 or 3 times now. I highly recommend them, even to other Christians, because it's a good look into how the Bible was written and how things were left out.

@mormonismwiththemurph 6 ай бұрын

Unfortunately no interview with Margaret but it is fascinating her research

@james8996 6 ай бұрын

@@mormonismwiththemurphwhen the Mormons get caught lying they are speechless

@lemjwp1756 6 ай бұрын

I'm a big fan of Margaret Barker's work!

@forzion1894 6 ай бұрын

Excellent video. While Margaret Barker has come to the U.S. and spoken on this, she is lives in the UK and is getting older. Have you considered reaching out to her for interview? These days, of course, it doesn't have to be in person, but it might still be more comfortable to do an online discussion with a fellow Brit speaking from her home turf? Also, just FYI, two of the most active LDS thinkers building on her work, Val Larsen and Dave Butler (who have both been on a number of recent podcasts) will be speaking at the upcoming FIRM Foundation Expo 19 April in Sandy, Utah.

@MillieKlein 6 ай бұрын

Sister Barker is a diamond among gems! I love her work

@daleclark7127 6 ай бұрын

Great presentation!!! This is an amazing correlation that Dr. Barker has ascertained. The Book of Mormon never fails to amaze me. Each day the findings by experts and just the study of the text itself just keeps bringing new light. If a fraud, it would be the opposite.

@mormonismwiththemurph 6 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching! I found this really fascinating

@kp6553 6 ай бұрын

In my head canon, Margaret Barker is one of the three Nephites

@mormonismwiththemurph 6 ай бұрын

Haha I think so

@TheRegimentalscot 6 ай бұрын

Nahh, but like Jordan Peterson, and the late Dr. Heiser, I fully accept them as "Prophets in the Wild" though.

@gadb14 6 ай бұрын

This is actually very interesting! Thanks for your service

@mormonismwiththemurph 6 ай бұрын

You are actually very wee

@gadb14 6 ай бұрын

@@mormonismwiththemurph 😠

@wendyfoster5579 6 ай бұрын

I love Margaret Barker and you did her justice. How child Joseph know, inspiration.

@philandrews2860 6 ай бұрын

Nice summary of this very fascinating topic. Thanks for sharing all these details in a cool, brief video 😊

@mormonismwiththemurph 6 ай бұрын

No problem!

@james8996 6 ай бұрын

@@mormonismwiththemurphExodus 19:1-6 Who GOD talking to here in theses Scriptures, Nothing but Black People' Jeremiah 4:14, Hosea 5:1, In The old Testament GOD was only Dealing with black people, ACTS 10 this is when white people started to become apart of the church, 1 Thessalonians 2:13-14) Where was the Church in ( Judea) Everything the Mormons teach about the Church is a lie

@Robert-rw5lm 6 ай бұрын

This is awesome, definitely saving this video

@mormonismwiththemurph 6 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching

@rconger24 5 ай бұрын

It is nice Murph to hear your Ulster lilt. I was there on my mission.

@mormonismwiththemurph 5 ай бұрын

Why thanks. How long ago did you serve?

@BobSmith-lb9nc 6 ай бұрын

The Book of Mormon is fully congruent with the Bible, and I know LDS Bible scholars who fully agree.

@james8996 6 ай бұрын

No it's not , the book of Mormon is a fairytale

@BobSmith-lb9nc 6 ай бұрын

@@james8996 Yes, James. To those ignorant of the Bible and the Book of Mormon it does often seem like a tall tale. If you bother to study them, you will sing a far different tune. Some non-LDS scholars have come to a very positive conclusion, and they provide us with their rationale. You might want to think it through, rather than being apriori dismissive.

@RichardHolmes-ll8ii 6 ай бұрын

@james8996 Your anti-Mormon friends have never been able to debunk the Book of Mormon. This is the reason they then turned their attention towards the Book of Abraham. Though however Paul Gregersen debunked your anti-Mormon and Egyptologist crowd by presenting proper interpretational understanding on translation. LDS scripture stands up to scrutiny.

@james8996 6 ай бұрын

@@RichardHolmes-ll8iiPsalm 147:19-20, Amos 3:1-2, Deuteronomy 28:15-68, Amos 2:11, here are a few scriptures that debunk the The Book of Mormon

@james8996 6 ай бұрын

@@BobSmith-lb9ncno because I know for a fact that Joseph Smith plagiarized the Bible he is Nephi, the man never prophesied about anything biblically

@TO-Aloha 6 ай бұрын

I’ve read all of Margaret Barker’s books and essays. Her biblical position is driven by an academic “temple theology,” which has many parallels with the Restored Church, but she also differs considerably with some of our central tenants. LDS apologists often misuse Barker’s “temple theology” to advance belief systems which have no scriptural basis. Best to read her work directly and avoid taking LDS apologetics’ selective sampling of it. Great video! Aloha

@zionmama150 6 ай бұрын

This happened to the Bible in the 1920’s. All the Bibles that the Pioneers came west with had the apocryphal texts in them. Those were taken out by the authorities post 1920’s.

@MsEva9470 6 ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing this is great information

@mormonismwiththemurph 6 ай бұрын

You are so welcome

@keithholgreen7294 5 ай бұрын

DKMelt, maybe the “Mormon church” needs you. The need for good men and women who already love God, Family, Country and service are greatly needed in todays society. Bring all the truth you have and we can add more to it. Come and see.

@rconger24 6 ай бұрын

6:20 6:27 10:01 10:38 11:47 12:28 13:42 14:35 25:54

@smb123211 3 ай бұрын

I do not know one reputable Old Testament scholar who thinks Jews expected a Messiah in the mold of Jesus. It's stated thatthe Messiah would bring Israel victory over her foes and inaugurate world peace. It was never taught that he would be divine or absolve sins. Seminaries now call these "Dual prophecies" because they originally applied to local events (such as the "virgin shall conceive" which referred to King Ahaz and his wars) and only later morphed into Messianic predictions. I;ve always wondered, why would god, being omniscient, send a Messiah he knew his people would reject? It makes zero sense.

@crisantocabrerajr.8540 6 ай бұрын

Pres Benson once said...The Book of Mormon is not on trial....the book is its own proof

@kenkersey6658 6 ай бұрын

You need to try to get author Dave Butler on to expand on what you're presenting in this video.

@mormonismwiththemurph 6 ай бұрын

Was he the one on stick of Joseph?

@kenkersey6658 6 ай бұрын

@@mormonismwiththemurph Yes. He's also been on with Greg Matsen and also on the Gospel Tangents podcast

@james8996 6 ай бұрын

@@mormonismwiththemurphWho is the stick of Joseph because whoever is teaching that it's the book of Mormon is teaching falsehood, the Stick of Joseph is the Northern Kingdom of Israel the 9 tribes that's who the Bible is talking about it's not talking about a book you can't read that nowhere in ( Ezekiel 37:16 )

@Brother-Jacob 6 ай бұрын

@james8996 Actually, that chapter in Ezekiel refers to the act of writing on scrolls (which is paper wrapped around “sticks”). You know the stick, scroll, or writing of Judah: the Bible! The Old and New Testaments! The writing of Joseph, or Ephraim, refers to the Book of Mormon because the people of the BoM were descendants of Joseph: Ephraimites and Manassehites.

@james8996 6 ай бұрын

@@Brother-Jacobwhat are you talking about because you're not making any sense,

@slara9747 6 ай бұрын

I don’t understand why Margaret is not member of the church 🤷‍♂️

@Sirach144 6 ай бұрын

@jamesbaldwin7676 6 ай бұрын

All these arguments are based upon the inumeral translations of the Bible and the use of the various names of God (something Hebrews never liked to do anyway). JEHOVAH (BTW) is a title with a meaning and not necessarily a name. So is God or Yahweh. Both are titles. The Bible is not always crystal clear on the subject since neither the Hebrews nor the translators were always clear themselves. The various names were freely used whenever the translators wanted. It's pointless to argue the subject since no clear consensus is within the Bible.

@Sirach144 6 ай бұрын

@@jamesbaldwin7676 They aren’t titles. Lord is a title. “I am Jehovah. That is my name.” Isaiah 42:8 God does not have multiple names. He has different titles, yes. But Jehovah is his name. Or you can say Yahweh. That’s like saying Jesus is a title, not a name. And there is a clear consensus of it in the Bible. It’s just the fact that you’re trying to harmonize it with LDS teaching, which is not gonna work.

@jamesbaldwin7676 6 ай бұрын

@@Sirach144 Jesus is a name. Jehovah is the eternal name and title of Jesus. It means "The Existing One or The Lord." Jehovah was the God of the Old Testament, nevertheless Jesus has a Father. The two are one, just as Jesus commanded his disciples to be one. No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known. (John 1:18) We pray to the Father in the name of His Son because that's how Jesus prayed time and again and that's how he taught us to pray. We are baptized in Jesus name to fulfill all righteousness just like Jesus was. I'm sorry if you can't see it this way but there is no other way for straight is the way and narrow is the gate. The whole world is being invited to repent and be baptized and that includes you. I have nothing further to say.

@Sirach144 6 ай бұрын

@@jamesbaldwin7676 I have repented and have been baptized. Not through some false man who claimed two dead people showed up to them and restored some priesthood. I’m sorry there’s no biblical evidence for that. Your church obviously does. I understand the difference between the AARONIC AND MELCHIZEDEK priesthood because it’s not what the Mormon teaches. I can see it and don’t act like everybody’s blind just because they don’t agree with you. Firstly, Jehovah was his name. He directly said it was his name. So you can either argue with that or just try to harmonize it with some false prophet. But the fact is, I’ve given evidence and I’m sorry you can’t see it. But I’ll post it again. 1. Jesus said he was anointed by Jehovah. See Isaiah 61:1 cf. Luke 4:18. Jesus said he was anointed by Jehovah. -”The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is upon me; because Jehovah hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek….” Isaiah‬ ‭61‬:‭1‬ ‭ASV‬‬ ”The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor: He hath sent me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised,“ ‭‭Luke‬ ‭4‬:‭18‬ ‭ Jesus thus showed he was anointed by Jehovah. 2. Jesus sits at Jehovahs right hand. Psalm 110:1 cf Hebrews 10:12-13 ”Jehovah saith unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, Until I make thine enemies thy footstool.“ ‭‭Psalms‬ ‭110‬:‭1‬ ‭ASV‬‬ ”but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; henceforth expecting till his enemies be made the footstool of his feet.“ ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10‬:‭12‬-‭13‬ ‭ASV‬‬ Jesus this sits at the right hand of Jehovah. 3. Exodus 3:15 says that Jehovah is the God or Abraham Isaac and Jacob. The God of our forefathers. Then in Acts 3:13 says Jesus is the Son of the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. ”And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.“ ASV ‭‭Exodus‬ ‭3‬:‭15‬ ‭ ”The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Servant Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied before the face of Pilate, when he had determined to release him.“ ‭‭Acts‬ ‭3‬:‭13‬ ‭ 4. Jesus quoted the OT to Satan and said “Go away Satan for it it written It if the LORD to the God you must worship…”. He read from the scripture about Jehovah. ”And Jesus answered and said unto him, It is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.“ ‭‭Luke‬ ‭4‬:‭8‬ ‭ He quoted Deut 6:13 “”Thou shalt fear Jehovah thy God; and him shalt thou serve, and shalt swear by his name.“ ‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭6‬:‭13‬ ‭ Jesus told Satan to worship Jehovah.

@peterblair4448 6 ай бұрын

Great episodes.

@mormonismwiththemurph 6 ай бұрын

Thanks

@jerry_phillips 6 ай бұрын

Maybe you answered this but how does this square with 1 Nephi 13: 25-26 about the book being delivered in purity from the Jews into the Gentiles?” Doesn’t that state that the Jews didn’t alter or hold back texts?

@charlesmendeley9823 6 ай бұрын

Yes. According to the Book of Mormon, the Bible was changed only in New Testament times, after the Apostles were killed. This was a valid assumption at the time of Joseph. However, with the excavation of the Dead Sea Scrolls, we can compare the old testament as it was before that time with the transmitted version, and scholars agree that the transmission was shockingly accurate, and that there are fewer changes than expected with manual copying. The belief that the old testament contained concrete stories about Jesus, like the book of Mormon does, is unfounded.

@Sirach144 6 ай бұрын

@@charlesmendeley9823 Yet the Dead Sea scrolls show this is a lie. The Bible is still the same as it was back then. This is a trick that the LDS does to be able to add ANYTHING they want into the church. First you invalidate the scriptures and then you can add anything you want into it.

@Brother-Jacob 6 ай бұрын

I don’t think 1 Nephi 13 takes any stance on this, or that it says that The Bible was only changed in New Testament times. Rather, it says that our modern Bible (the book carried forth among the Gentiles) _originally_ “proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew … in purity,” but that records or engravings are missing from it. Regardless of what happened in Old Testament times, we can assume that the Apostles taught the fullness of the Gospel, and their writings originally went forth in purity to the Gentiles. But our modern Bible was compiled some time _after_ the Apostles’ deaths. So it’s not necessarily saying that the books that make up our New Testament were directly altered. It’s saying that the correct _understanding_ of our New Testament has changed because we don’t have all the words of the Apostles and the Prophets that we _should_ have. That’s just my two cents.

@gingersnaps215 6 ай бұрын

It also depends on what you believe was the intended OT canon. I don’t think the canon was “officially” closed by any Jewish councils or authorities until fairly recently? Like within recent centuries…? And you might also look at an Ethiopian Bible. Many extra books there! I’d say it’s not as clear-cut as “the Old Testament as we have it is its intended ‘pure’ form.” I also think that Christ would have taught the apostles the true religion (right?) and it would have been “pure” at that in time, again, too. That was basically Dr Barker’s catalyzing question: how did the early Christians have such a rich, fleshed out theology, and (apparently) so easily accept this idea of a Father, Son, and Spirit God, when that is absent from Second Temple Judaism (and Judaism as we understand it today)? I haven’t read a lot of her work, but I have listened to many of her lectures. I believe she looked at early Egyptian and Coptic Christians especially, but I could be very wrong about that. I know she looks at pretty much every extant ancient religious text there is (gnostic, nag hammadi, Dead Sea scrolls, Byzantine hymns, apocrypha, pseudepigrapha, etc etc etc). Her website (her name is the address) has a large amount of her essays and such. Like another commenter said, all of her conclusions do *not* match up exactly with LDS theology, but it is definitely intriguing!

@Sirach144 6 ай бұрын

@@Brother-Jacob but doesn’t Joseph Smith say that those parts were removed not just our understanding?

@arnoldahlstrom1026 6 ай бұрын

Tree of Life - is a representation of Jesus. The tree of life is "the Love of God" (towards man). For God so loved the world that he gave the Tree of Life God gave his only begotten son to atone for man’s sins. 2 Ne 2 The tree of knowledge of good and evil is satan - is the opposite to the Tree of Life The Tree of Life sheddeth itself abroad in the hearts of the children of me. Only things that can be poured can be shed. Only one thing can be poured/shed into mans heart to make them happy - The atoning blood. I cannot see how Eve can be the Heavenly Mother, and that the Heavenly Mother can be the same as Eve. I cannot see how the Tree of Life represents Heavenly Mother, Jesus’ Mother, and Jesus too Oh, I am far from perfect in my understanding - but in Nephis revelation of the Tree of Life I think I see three things: Jesus is representd by the path (I am the way..) He is also represented by the rod (I am…the word of God (the truth)) And he is represented by the Tree (life). So - Lehi and Nephis revelation is a temple experience where Jesus reveales himself as the Way, the Truth and the Life - JUST like he is presented in the covenant path in the old testament teples. .

@Brother-Jacob 6 ай бұрын

The Way, the Truth, and the Life. Good comment.

@TheRegimentalscot 6 ай бұрын

Mary is a symbolic type of our Heavenly mother (or Asherah as Margaret Barker would say)- as Nephi says (and paraphrasing here) " the mother of the Son of God after the manner of the flesh". *edited cause I was thinking faster than I was typing, and forgot a crucial part of the phrase.

@rconger24 6 ай бұрын

@@TheRegimentalscot 1st Nephi 11: 18 "Mother of _the son_ of God after the manner of the flesh." But yeah.

@rconger24 6 ай бұрын

@@TheRegimentalscot Oh- 1st Nephi 11: 18

@TheRegimentalscot 6 ай бұрын

@rconger24 Thank-you for pointing out I forgot a few important but distinctive words in that extremely vital phrase. It appears I was thinking faster than I was typing again.

@prophetcentral 6 ай бұрын

Why is it that we have to pervert the truth of the Book of Mormon to lead to membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? There is literally no doctrinal statement that ties the truthfulness of God's word to pursuing membership in a specific church. It is a grave misstep and a stumbling block for many I believe to equate the truth of text to the truth of the organization in the world. One thing we will need to overcome as Gentiles is the manipulation of the Book of Mormon to build up a church. Joseph Smith did not publish the book in the name of the church for a reason, but he published it in his own name so as to leave it untied from any specific church. The Book of Mormon does not point to the truth of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints anymore than the Bible points to the truth of the Catholic Church.

@arjunheart5859 6 ай бұрын

It's not just proof of the Book of Mormon that this research has. Instead, it affirms that the Gospel that God teaches didn't transform in the meridian of time. That quite likely, Moses, Abraham, and all the other pre-josiah prophets believed in God the Father, His only begotten Son, and the logical conclusion that if we have a Father, we must also have a Mother. This is also, I think, why we don't talk as much about Heavenly Mother. The Father allowed early Jews to believe in and worship Her, and they trampled over that priveledge. I can't be certain that they did worship Her, only that there is a reason such a doctrine has been carefully guarded and protected in this day.

@ItsSnagret 6 ай бұрын

Super cool work. Antis will say she’s an undercover Mormon lol

@perryekimae 6 ай бұрын

I can see why she gets accused of parallelomania by her peers. I get why this would be convincing if you're previously credulous to the truth claims of the Book of Mormon, but this just seems to introduce a host of new problems. For instance, if the Lehites are preserving true Israelite religion by maintaining Asheran imagery, why does the Book of Mormon not name her? Why instead is Mary named anachronostically? Who/what does she cite for the atoning Messiah claim? As Messiah indicates "anointed", why would YHWH anoint himself? And deferring to the El/YHWH conflation isn't helpful, as YHWH was pretty well ensconced as the central figure of Hebrew worship by the time the temple was (likely) constructed. Conflating LDS Elohim to the Canaanite El, Jesus to the OT YHWH, and Heavenly Mother to Asherah is fantastic example of parallelomania in action. It's kinda like conflating Elohim and Odin, Jesus and Thor, and Heavenly Mother and Frigga (or Jörd if you're feeling nasty). Sure, there are parallels, but these characters have little to no actual relationship with each other. 15:50 Yup, pretty easy to appeal to the contents of texts which has zero extant evidence of their having ever existed. Honestly, a solid example of Joseph Smith's genius in keeping his claims as unfalsifiable as possible. 17:22 So, was the religion of Abraham a polytheistic one that did not follow the Law of Moses? That's kinda the implication of suggesting that the Melchizedek Priesthood was part of the pre-Josian tradition, right? So, the Lehites should have denounced the practice of the Law of Moses as apostate, right? There is debate on some of these topics, sure, but it does seem that the consensus among scholars does not align with many of Dr. Barker's claims. It's like the notions of Dr. Barker mingled with scholarship here. 18:00 The Lehite preaching of an atoning Messiah is, textually, in no way connected to pre-Josian ideas. It is the result of a series of visions, which are interpreted in ways that are not consistent with pre-Exilic theology. All the Zosimus stuff is just parallelism, as you say. I saw more differences in those "similarities" than actual similarities. It is interesting that two minds living over a millennium apart were both caught up with this immediately pre-Exile Jerusalem story like that. 22:00 The texts come from the same source in the sense that they both came from human brains inspired by Old Testament stories, and that's about it. How in the seven Correllian hells does the existence of parallels between a fifth century Hellenistic pseudepigraphic text and the Book of Mormon give weight to the idea of an ancient origin for the latter? That is a flatly intellectually dishonest statement. 25:30 Yeah... no, there are so many other textual problems that plague the text long before we get to some of the complicated theological debates, changes, innovations, and alterations that were happening in the immediately pre-Exilic Judah. Deutero-Isaiah, Hellenistic ideas, the smelting of iron ore, and the entire story of the slaying of Laban as just a few of the problems. Rushing to fringe scholarship that is itself plagued with parallelomania does not do much to instill someone critically evaluating the text in accepting any of the historicity claims, up to and including the mere existence of any of the Lehite figures described. And just to come back to this as it hit me a touch differently in your summary, saying that Lehi's theology is consistent with pre-Exilic tradition is just unbelievably not supported by the data. Lehi was a monotheist, which was an idea on the order of centuries anachronistic to the time he was supposed to have lived, but definitely anachronistic to pre-Exile Judah. Other gods do not exist in Lehi's theology. I can see why a scholar who wants Jesus in the Old Testament would be attracted to the idea of pre-Exilic Hebrew monotheism, but the data does not bear that out.

@EricVMag 6 ай бұрын

I see a lot of handwaving here, and very little argumentation.

@davidjanbaz7728 6 ай бұрын

@@EricVMagthat's exactly what your comment is : typical Mormon handwaving: we're Christians too ! NOT!

@EricVMag 6 ай бұрын

@@davidjanbaz7728 Hahahahaha, so making a factual statement about my religion is handwaving? That's hilarious. There are many valid criticisms to the Church, but "MoRmOnS aRe NoT cHrIsTiAnS" is not one of them. It's a high school girl-like attitude of excluding people you don't like from what you feel is YOUR little circle of "cool people". Newsflash: you don't control who follows Jesus Christ and who doesn't.

@perryekimae 6 ай бұрын

@@EricVMag What handwaving? I list specific categorical problems with this approach several times. I rhetorically grant the arguments presented and show that other categorical problems are introduced or unanswered. I'll give you an example of a problem introduced, even though I already listed it out above. If the tree of life in Lehi and Nephi's visions is supposed to be a callback to the Asherah tree, why does Nephi nor the angel of the Lord make that connection? Instead, the tree is linked to Mary (based in an anachronistic reading of Isaiah 7). Asherah is not mentioned or alluded to in Lehi's recounting or Nephi's commentaries. They are, first and foremost, supposedly First Temple Jews who have connections to people who practiced inclusivist worship of YHWH before the Neo-Assyrian conquest of Israel. Their dwelling in Judah would give them convenient access to the last big site of YHWH worship in the region. If Asheran imagery is appearing in their visions and teachings, we would reasonably expect Asherah herself to get a nod or a mention. She does not. This issue reads as an example of parallelomania on the part of Dr. Barker, something she has been accused of by her colleagues. But, sure, all that is handwaving.

@gingersnaps215 6 ай бұрын

@perryekimae The angel shows Nephi the tree, then Mary, the “mother of the son of God AFTER THE MANNER OF THE FLESH,” which would not need to be stated if there was no other mother aside from the human mother, Mary. Nephi connects the tree with the love of God, after seeing the whole scene all together: tree, fruit, mother, baby. Obviously stated? No. You may dismiss it, but I don’t. I also don’t think Lehi and co were supposed to have been worshipping a pantheon, which it definitely doesn’t seem like they did, based on the entirety of the Book of Mormon. I think it’s more that they didn’t erase the knowledge of the whole Heavenly Family, like the reformers did in Jerusalem. They also maintained that you COULD see God, and not just “hear Him,” as the reformers insisted (that’s probably why Lehi is denounced as a “visionary man” by his wife at times, and by Laman and Lemuel). The reformers also insisted that God had no form, which is a HUGE part of Christianity (I mean, Christ takes on a fleshy human body, which is then resurrected. That’s definitely not formless), and you see that conflict of doctrine in the Book of Mormon, too. Lehi, Nephi, Sam, Jacob, etc, were monolatrists, not polytheists or monotheists. Keeping the Law of Moses requires that you only worship one God, not that you deny the existence of other Divine Beings. “Thou shalt have no other gods before me,” not “thou shalt *deny* all other gods” That’s how I understand it, that’s how we LDS worship, and I’ve even read a paper written by a Baptist student asserting that Christians should identify as monolatrists and not monotheists. Christians recognize the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as God, but only pray to the Father (or at least that is the pattern set in the Bible; I know many who pray to Jesus. I, and all LDS, pray to the Father in the name of the Son). Monolatry in action 😊 But I’m sure you’ll disagree, and that’s fine. I have no interest in a debate, I’m merely offering my understanding.

@bartercoins 5 ай бұрын

1 Nephi 13 is a prophecy of _the end times_ or the times of the Elias who will restore all things (see Matt. 17:10-11). As Elias has not, as yet appeared, the prophecy has not, yet, been literally fulfilled.

@michaelparks5669 6 ай бұрын

KZfaq REMOVED MY POSTS . WE CALL THAT CENSORSHIP.

@michaelparks5669 6 ай бұрын

hahaha youtube removed my posts... HEY WE CALL THAT CENSORSHIP.

@Sirach144 6 ай бұрын

What makes one a “scholar”? There’s scholars that support yay marriage from the Bible. Doesn’t make it true.

@mikeboyd3225 6 ай бұрын

Doesn’t make it untrue either.

@Sirach144 6 ай бұрын

@@mikeboyd3225 And since there is ZERO EVIDENCE for the Book of Mormon then we can agree she is wrong as well

@EricVMag 6 ай бұрын

@@Sirach144 That's circular logic. It's the same thing crooks did during the p4ndemics: 1. "All scientists agree vaccines are safe and effective" 2. A scientist raises concerns about safety and/or effectiveness 3. Everyone censors him and no one else hears about his work 4. "All scientists agree vaccines are safe and effective"

@nealljones 6 ай бұрын

Appreciate your video. Barker is a fascinating scholar. Since I've seen her on the scene, I've tried to learn a little more about the subject. Your video has been huge to understand the basics. Your friend, Robert Boylan, also did a video on the subject that helped: Episode 52: Kevin Christensen on King Josiah and the Deuteronomistic Reformation kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ha2Pe9p6qbrWfWw.html

@mormonismwiththemurph 6 ай бұрын

I want to watch that, maybe I could bring him on to dive deeper

@nealljones 6 ай бұрын

@@mormonismwiththemurph That would be awesome! Kevin has known Barker for over 20 years.

@Jsppydays 6 ай бұрын

So she must believe in the polygamy as well. what I find interesting is the Book of Mormon was actually written from the Bible so this would not be shocking. What I would like to see is all the Bible scholars to voice their opinion to give her credibility. But mostly challenging would be the doctrine and Covenants, LDS doctrine, Emma's damnation. let's get her opinion on that. One is just not enough for me. I totally would believe it if Joseph Smith believed the warrior armies in the Book of Mormon were the Nephilim Giants or some of them. As far as evidence, giant bones geologists are discovering all over America right now and there were so many more in new York, Joseph's time. And this would make more sense. Just saying. Joseph did not believe in the nephilim or giants. Or the watchers ...book of Enoch ? But this must mean he did not believe in David and Goliath. Think..lots of mud

@sdfotodude 6 ай бұрын

If Joseph was simply plagiarizing the OT and the NT. and the 19th-century texts (View of the Hebrews/ et al). It ALL makes perfect sense.

@jeremims9044 5 ай бұрын

I didn't see you show up to the Jerry Grover presentation.. let's hear your wonderful insights on that one too. Lol

@Sirach144 6 ай бұрын

@hollayevladimiroff131 6 ай бұрын

The Book of Mormon has never been proven or validated. by historians and archeologists. A book supposedly of an ancient civilization but not one artifact has been found, not a weapon, coin, utensil, etc. nothing has been found. Unlike the bible that has been proven and validated by the greatest historians and archeologist.

@danielstark8356 6 ай бұрын

There are some pretty compelling evidence in favor of the BOM, particularly regarding the 1st Nephi period (Murph has done some pretty great videos on such evidence). However, it is true that you can't definitively prove the historicity of The Book of Mormon through secular means in the same way you can with parts of the Bible I do think that the key word there is 'parts'. The Bible is a collection of books. There are parts of the Bible that have been proven historically by archeologists and scholars. However, there's also a whole lot that hasn't been. For instance, you can't prove that the first five books of Moses are any more historical than you can prove the Book of Mormon was historical (especially Genesis).

@Thehaystack7999 6 ай бұрын

Many evidences for the Bible only surfaces hundreds and some over a thousand years later. Many aspects of the Book of Mormon was said to be false until it was shown to be true by non-LDS findings and scholars. That’s why the criticism went from Joseph being a fool, to being exceptionally intelligent or must have been given all these things from a counterfeit angel because people do not want it to be true despite the evidences. Despite the evidences for Christ and past prophets, they were rejected and killed. The best evidence is in the doctrines when understood.

@LatterDayChad 6 ай бұрын

Yes the hopewell swords and armor found in North America do not exist they were never found neither was the bat creek stone or the Old stone fort in Tennessee dated between 80-550 AD or the massive populations in North America which happen to be where the natives have Hebrew dna including the Mi'kmaq who’s writing marches up with the one page of supposed Book of Mormon characters, none of that exists

@lemjwp1756 6 ай бұрын

There have been excellent archaeological evidence for some portions of the Bible, but not at all for others. There's been zero evidence for the Exodus and many scholars consider it a myth. There are also people groups in the Bible for which no evidence has been found. As far as anachronisms, the use of domesticated camels is not supported for the time periods claimed in the Bible.

@elderinisrael 6 ай бұрын

Everything you have just said is completely false. There have been many artifacts found supporting an ancient civilization here in America. There is a lot of evidence in the Middle East that supports The Book of Mormon, the problem is that you like the majority of Christianity are close-minded and refuse to accept them. Here you have a NON-LDS Scholar (that means she's not a member of the church) in support of The Book of Mormon and you are basically calling her a liar.

@DKMELT 6 ай бұрын

Has any Mormon read the New Testament? It renders the Morman bible irrelevant. Read it!

@keithholgreen7294 6 ай бұрын

Please tell us how you came to this conclusion. The New Testament and the Book of Mormon go hand in hand to testify that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, The Savior of Mankind, Took upon Himself our sins, died on the Cross and was resurrected on the 3rd day. He visited His “ other sheep “ and some of those lived in the Americas at that time.

@DKMELT 6 ай бұрын

@@keithholgreen7294 Tell me, why do I need the Morman church?

@rconger24 6 ай бұрын

@@DKMELT Do you want to become a better person? The covenants in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teach us how to be made holy or sanctified or become perfected in Christ.

@rconger24 6 ай бұрын

The BoM and NT are in agreement. Have read the NT through a couple of times and studied all over it. How about you?

@Sirach144 6 ай бұрын

Joseph Smith put the trinitarian concept of God and Modalist version of God all in the same book.