Thanks Axis! It's funny, after fighting the good fight on bunkers for so long, I realized I never really use them anymore. I think you put it perfectly in describing them as boringly strong. I will say that I do find it interesting to try to find ways to build them more efficiently and effectively, though I definitely understand preferring movement and combat. Either way, it's nice to see a comprehensive and objective take on the bunker. Nice bulk smash and Molly plat by the way!

I just wish Dash was an inherent ability instead of a perk you have to unlock and equip in order to experience the other nuances of the "movement shooter" so to speak.

I like bunkers when all odds are stacked to the point that they're a last ditch effort. A valiant final stand, such as map 3 of an elite dive and it's either elite or lethal enemies

I've been playing this game a little over a year and never once thought "Man I'd sure love to funnel all these bugs in one spot." I play like a cracked out kleptomaniac with one goal in mind. Take everything, leave no Rock unStoned, and squish bugs. Yes that's technically 3 things but I'm not here to math or make sense. I'm here to loot and shoot! Lol

Could you perhaps make a video on advanced movement tactics or something like that? Seeing you talk about movement in that way is quite inspiring and id like to see some tips and tricks and whatnot about it

I overused bunkers for about 2 hours, and got over them pretty fast. Now I usually just use them whenever I desperately need to stabilize, am on low ammo and just short of a resupply when the swarm starts, or simply don't have a ton of energy that day and just want to keep the grind for matrix cores going

bunkers are fun every once in a while to say "wow this is hilarious, it's so broken", but like a lot of broken things in games, it gets old quick

I played solo gunner for a year and THAT will teach you how to move in a cave and make the most out of the terrain. It's not often that a gunner can beat a driller to the drop pod.

IMO i use bunkers as another tool in the toolbox as a driller, not every situation requires a bunker, but it is very usefull as as means to stabilize a team who is low on ammo and struggling to stay up i slap down a fast bunker and herd them in to regroup and get our bearings again , a good team generally wont need a bunker but if something bad happens and your team is tossed into a situation where its extremely difficult to recover (say a group of new players attempting haz 5 for the first few times ) it certainly can help keep players invested instead of getting frustrated and quitting attempting haz 5 ever again

My issue with bunkers is that they're fun to build but not fun to use. By that I mean modifying your environment to make an advantageous position is part of this game's strategy, and why I love driller and engineer so much. But there's not enough counterplay to bunkering, or enough terrain variety in that context. I like the strategic element of looking at an area and saying "How do we make this better for us?" But the fact that events all happen in similar areas means once you learn the ideal for 2 or 3 different contexts you don't have to think anymore. Personally I'd like to see more enemies to counter bunkers, or even stuff that falls like sand/gravel in minecraft so bunkering and terrain control becomes a lot harder while still being rewarding.

Love the effort of glitching out the map just for an interesting background when your talking! I've always had my ways of doing it and it's pretty cool to see others using for something outside of a party trick to show your friends!

I used to use bunkers nearly every swarm but after a while I realized they aren't needed all the time I find the best way to use them is if you need to re establish yourself, get ammo etc or if I'm desperate and about to die or if the team wants one

It hurts when the driller makes a bunker on a stage where bulks spawn without communication

Honestly I started this game without any knowledge of bunkers and why people had suck varying opinions. Then on a egg hunt mission my driller made a bunker and I as a gunner main hated it. I main gunner for the raw power I feel when I start shooting into a swarm that is inches away from ripping me apart. But in a bunker I just sat there with M1 held down and not moving. It worked though and we beat the mission, but it felt oddly hollow

Your point about this being a movement shooter kinda hits home. As an OG Titanfall 2 enjoyer, Scout immediately spoke with me because it's not just some basic A->B grapple like so many other grapples in games are. The game has movement physics, and being able to mess with those and manipulate how you move through the maps dramatically changes how you see fights. The movement is the primary way DRG separates itself from games like Left 4 Dead and the like, since knowing how to move and shoot on your feet has such a huge impact on your survivability.

I've been watching your content for a while, but I think what pushed me to "join" was you saying outright, that while bunkers were powerful, they just don't appeal to you or what you want out of the game. I appreciate the honesty, both about the practicality of the tactic AND about what you just like. I like DRG the most because it allows people to play the way they want to, not just some "meta" way that's provably more powerful. And I think it's better to just call out that something's a choice rather than belittling people who choose something else.

From my experience (on haz 5) is that bunkers lead to mission failure than when not using bunkers. That's not to say that bunkers are inherently bad, it's just that bad players tend to use them, and when things go south when you're in a bunker, it's easy to wipe.

The truth is in the middle. I like playing Driller the most, have over 1k hours in the game and the only time i will do something resembling a bunker is when there is a mactera swarm about to happen and i am low on health and team in a bad situation. But in any other scenario, best defense is a large open space to kite bugs. Don't rely on a bunkers to win every game, but don't be ashamed to use one in a dire situation.

The problem with most bunkers is not with the strategy itself, but that the Driller that builds it ISN'T competent. If they don't understand how to resolve a bad situation or they don't build in a "backdoor" and a bulk det spawns then you are screwed. I agree with everything you said though. Just wanted to add that as a caveat.

"If it's not fun, why bother?" ~ Sun Tzu, probably

‘Boringly strong’ explains bunkers perfectly. (Also “The movement and the shootment” got me good.)

One if the most satisfying things to happen to me while playing is being able to clutch a fucked up situation, everyone's down you trigger iron will and wipe out bug after bug, maybe resupply or run to red sugar and then hear the mission control saying the wave is almost over and you can stabilize the situation and breathe for a while rescue the team, and normally people always praise you for doing it, feels good man.

i like to reenact The Last Stand of Balin’s Colony with bunkers, but without the getting horribly massacred part

Dude I just want to say when I was watching your background gameplay all I can think is dam your engi is insane I'm jealous

The only reason bunkers are engaging to me is that im new enough and bad enough at the game that my little circular room at the end of my bunker often does get encroached on by bugs playing solo, so i get this panicked claustropobic fight trying to push the bugs back to the long square entrance corridor.

Tbh, Bunker/Bunkie is less of Combat skill, but more on logistics and Strategic skill. It make combat too easy, but at same times, it’s more to make as something to help people getting pass the obstacles, and also the annoyance of having to stuck in an area while swarm everywhere.

Bunker is a bonus way of playing and doing once in a while is very satisfying

Being able to dig as long of a tunnel as you can and being forced to stay in one place during the uplink phase are very different situations. I think the "bunkers are dangerous" sentiment mostly pertains to the latter

Only bunker because an objective spawns in a tunnel or robots

One type of Bunker a YTer presented was for Salvage/Hold the point types, it's a good Bunker because it allows those who don't want to stay in it to still provide objective completion while those who prefer a Bunker can also do the same objective.

I love the little Loyd vibing in the back of the intro

Your wordings on this matter is concise, and on point as always! A bit related to your argument around the 4:00 minute mark, but that play at 4:30 proves your argument. If you ALWAYS relied on bunkering to carry you through the mission, you would lack the knowledge and/or skill to be able to pull off that 4:30 moment. Additionally you would likely know much less about the game in general if you used Bunkering as a crutch. Like you said, in the hands of a competent driller, who knows WHAT the sound of a Bulk Detonator sounds like, then Bunkering is PART of your Driller Techniques not your ONLY Driller Technique.

If I load into a mission and find half my squad downed by a korlok in a claustrophobic environment, I'm gonna drill a bunker for some breathing room during the rescue operation. Sometimes you're squished in a horrible spot and a panic bunker can save the day. Other than that I never use them.

i think it really depends whether you're going to just play the game laid back and casually or more competitive and run and gun to the fullest extend. i tend to switch back and forth

Couldn't agree more. I have always told new players to learn to play without a bunker. But if you never go the "lazy", time consuming and imo boring route you won't miss it either.

Ok, I'm gonna rant a bit here. So, I recently joined in on a Haz 3 Industrial Sabotage mission. We had all four classes, and while I wasn't prestiged, all my teammates were like gold to diamond prestige. You would expect them to clear this mission easily and quickly, but instead, they bunkered during Caretaker, and stayed in there, not even peeking out to shoot, or doing anything. I had to solo the Caretaker, and they wouldn't even come out to DPS during the DPS phase. So, I just kept dying outside while the other teammates just kept bunkering and didn't do anything to the boss the whole time. I died, and they eventually got wiped by the sheer amount of shredders and patrol bots attacking them, while they couldn't exit due to the repulsor waves. Holy crap, watching a Hazard 3 mission go so badly while it was totally avoidable by just exiting the bunker once in a while to dps the boss, or clear adds would have resulted in a far more positive outcome. Ok, rant over.

I do bunkers whenever we have a low level player to carry in Elite Deep Dives, me and a friend usually make our game public and occasionally we have a guy who needs OCs and asks if we can help with their Elite Deep Dive

I only bunker on point extracts with golden bugs to make a gold factory

One thing I sometimes do before resupplying is make a quick C4 bunker or two if I haven't used any C4 ...Unless I'm on Magma Core, then I'll either quickly blast a mineral vein or just not use the charge

Drilling into a wall is far from the worst bunker. In fact for more solo oriented play, drilling up into a wall(ALWAYS point your tunnel up, not down) is an ideal way to deal with swarms. I don't mean specifically solo, just any time you are on your own or your team isn't really cooperating well. It's ideal in terms of what you can accomplish between the initial swarm warning and the bugs showing up, you have enough time to drill 2x to full heat (no overheat), which gives you a good amount of distance. If you have an ally, throwing a C4 on the roof helps to give him a little room to maneuver and maybe park molly. The absolute worst bunker is a pit straight down, with anything downward-angled being second place. The up angle is important to minimize threat from shellbacks, and a pit leaves you with nowhere to go, even through the enemy. Most bunker complaints come from playing on Salvage missions and in similar situations. A solo tunnel is perfectly fine anytime, forcing the whole team to participate in an all-in bunker for a defense objective isn't. With all the teammates in there its way easier to fail due to some design fuckup (shellbacks especially), and certain classes and players really hate being confined in the first place. Fun for the driller doesn't always translate to fun for everyone else.

I tend to make L tunnel which is very useful way to deal with mactera if you don't have a epc. (driller main weakness) Macteras group up around the end of L and you just drill them.

quality stuff as always

im not sure if anyone already got this idea... but im using turret arc engineer overclock inside bunker... its perfect... me and my teammates are just chillin while electricity do all the work... it also works great in deep dives bc only the enginneer is spending around 10 (primary weapon) bullets every time turrets go normal mode...

That cliff fight was so fucking cool

I think I only ever made a bunker once; EDD, black box, detonator swarm. No ammo. Buried my whole team with the box then dug to the drop pod.

Once i was on a mining mission and i was scout however, i was faced with 2 rounds of 4 glyphids and 2 oppressors. Yes scout is weak but if you use the grapple hes pretty good. Managed to freeze em and loop behind them with my 2 uzi things

It's interesting how little importance the terrain destruction has on the core game play loop. I think the game could work just as well with static terrain. A bunch of things would have to change, and mining really benefits from the tactile-ness of destructive terrain, but the main loop of go places, get or do things, fight bugs, leave no dwarf behind (or just get one dwarf on the pod) could remain virtually unchanged.

i'll bunk on solo sometimes very rarely. just a garnish of bunkie every now and then

I only really do bunkers as driller on mactera plague, and if my primary isn’t that good at taking care of mass swarms of mactera. Other than that I always fight out in the open and keep moving.

I wonder how much of the bunker discourse changes when you playing higher difficulties in modded servers like haz five x3 bugs etc. I feel like I’m some situations during those missions it’s super critical to funnel bugs

Now I'm trying to think of ways to make largely underground strategies more interesting, and especially faster. Part of its that I have a tendency to optimize the fun out of things but also that digging that well is something that only driller can do, and I find it kind of pleasant to set something up. (shame that the results aren't as fun usually) Picturing near-surface tunnels that sometimes branch to other areas, some explosive assistance in excavation, possibly building something with an engineer buddy. (I generally play in 2 player with someone I know, good for coordination and generally fun) The trouble is making something that's both useful and actually fun to use. Probably best to start in specific missions that discourage 'sit in bunker' so I don't get bad habits as I'm figuring this out.

“On the bunker question” by Karl

Theres only 3 situations in which I bunker and I only do them if I'm playing Driller 1. My entire team goes down and theres too many bugs to rez 2. Uneven footing like a ledge or extremely vertical terrain 3. I'm in a confined area were kiting and movement is extremely restricted.

So, Gunner has the shield, Scout has the grappling hook, Eng has platforms and turrets, driller is not allowed to have something?

Bunkers are plain op when done correctly and if driller got ears no one will ever get hurt being trapped there, but they are boring since there's actually 0 skill involved in it except recognizing a detonator noise if driller is cryo since oppressors would get frozen (bye frontal "invulnerability") before being close enough to be a problem at all. A great thing to do when you need to play with one hand only like for smoke breaks, no more cinder into your keyboard!

Side note, Axis. What Mic do you use?

Curious how you do the axe cancelling so well. Ever since season 2 came out it's been super inconsistent, especially in lobbies I'm not hosting

Yeah all of this is true, the only time i bunker is when showing new friends that the strat exists if we need to do it but usually we dont have to even when i push them towards haz 4 and 5

Hear me out- Personally, as a driller main, i use bunkies very occasionally, however i do so mostly on like Haz 3s cause i just think they're cool. Its a fun experience to scream "GHET IN MUH BUNKIE" then moments later, there's four dwarves hunkered down, with the combined firepower of a small nation spewing death down a corridor at 12 tons of angry fucking bug. That said it does get stale really quick and if i want to play a haz 5, i want it to feel like a haz 5, something which bunkies kinda ruin. Because they make the game so easy, if you just want the experience of a bunker fight, it doesn't matter if you do it on haz 2 or haz 5, the expirence is gonna be the same; mainly hold left click. So you might as well do it on easier missions anyways. Tldr: Imo, bunkers are super fun, but only if you use them very sparingly for the novelty of hunkering down with the bros (especially with friends) but kinda ruin the fun for harder missions.

6:58 I only use bunkers on the missions where your bringing back a drop pod from.a failed mission

Concerning your take on tryhards, I find it’s fine to try hard, as long as it doesn’t impact others’ enjoyment. Not to the level you think. I put the space there on purpose, I’m talking the level where someone says “why aren’t you mining gold, do your fucking job” and proceeds to kick a guy. Don’t tryhard, just try hard.

Haz 5 or elite deep dives with lots of eggs it's useful. Especially if you coordinate and pop 4+ eggs at once it's helpful. Also nice if you want to relax a bit and feel like your chilling with your friends at a BBQ.

Bad bunkers made me fuckin claustrophobic. Now whenever I am a driller on sabotage i just blow up everything around uplink / fuel in 30 meter radius for a nice open AO

I've been calling DRG a movement shooter the moment I got Dash unlocked. And then shit can turn into Titanfall 2 levels of speed once they introduced Refinery missions, and the pipe sledding!

I have a master class for the sludge pump, though I usually only bunker when I solo as driller when there’s lots of macteras on a hazard 4 or 5 it’s easy to be insta killed with the lack of effective killing on any bugs above you with the sludge pump. Never matters how many bugs there are with that kit I’ve gotten 1000 kill elite deep dives but gat daum when 3 tri jaws come out of nowhere the sludge pump sadly kills them to slow when you land the hits.

Bunki is the cutest word ive heard today

I think Bunkers are a good pocket strat to have, especially if you're a new player or you're guiding a team of Greenbeards through a tough mission. Personally, I don't participate mostly because they're just not fun. Moving and shooting, taking down packs of bugs in the open is just a more fun way of playing. I think Bunkers are considered dangerous when the person who's taken it upon themselves to make the bunker has no idea what they're doing. You can't just dig tunnel into a wall, or sink the Fuel Cells into a big hole and call it done.

Im a begining driller main, and in 800 hours i use a bunker only 2 times in extra dangerous situations

I used to play driller and insist on making bunkers for every defense objective. People often resented it. So I changed my ways and started creating "emergency retreat bunkers"...which is basically just a nearby place to hide that nobody is forced to enter if they wish not to. This was a good compromise imo.

I love playing driller, but I hate bunkers. I like to focus on flattening the ground and terrain, but greatly dislike bunkers, they are so boring. I used to play Killing Floor 2, and that was pretty much all the high level gameplay, hunkering down in a room, and shooting everything that you've got down a narrow hallway. I much prefer running around, jumping, dodging, and trying to survive. But in dire situations, i will use a bunker.

i use bunkers because their cozy and just feel fun to use

I play on haz5 with speed run style and bunkering is so slow. I found this game is really shine when try to finish as fast as possible. It's really hard to see this type of games these days.

it's fun to do Bunkering once in a while, i think. having destructible Terrain means that occasionally i really just want to blow a whole lotta shit up! dig a biggggg 'ol Hole and muck around with it. and cackle as the Bugs try to do something about it. but i wouldn't do it on a regular basis, aye.

what build do you use on your warthog shotgun here?

Most of the time I see my randoms bunkering, I camp my zips. Seen way too many mishaps, and at least I can clutch revive the engineer and driller if needed. Movement outclasses bunkering in most situations, but building bunkers is fun, so I get it. Does promote poor play like you stated though.

3:30 goo bomber jumpscare

Honestly I usually bunker as a strategy when I just need to survive

AxisKronos, what is your opinion on pheromone arrows? I am starting to feel that they are the scouts equivalent to bunkers - they're so good - I am feeling myself guilty every time I use them.

Are these reuploads? Because i recall these Topics were mostly YEARS old

2:04 Gigachad bunker

bunkers are like pinging the caretaker shield fun sometimes but you shouldn't overdo it (it's not a chunk of gold after all)

OK firstly, that dash bait on the bulk as driller was sick. Secondly, "shootment" is not a word and doesn't need to be. Lastly, really great vid bro.

Making bad bunkers is fun if you want to die horribly with your friends, but want to have a funny story to remember it by.

all due respect, bunkers, team play with my buddies and bunkering down screaming bloody Mary at creepy crawlies is all we play for, sticking near each other and just kicking ass despite our lack of time and experience lol, we are all very new tho so there's that, it's just fun lol, we'll dig long ass tunnels and stuff and obv can't use it everywhere like the refinery missions or anything, but it's fun when we're able to shape the cave to our needs, not just bunkering tho lol, we use engi platforms and ziplines like crazy lmao

Why is 6 your interact key

Turn off your torchlight. This game is amazingly lit. Beautiful, even. And the swarms are less intimating when you can't see them.

I hate Salvage missions. Just always have, and the fact that you can lose the mission if you leave the tiny area is annoying. If I’m a digger on Salvage, I like digging a bunker when we get to the drop pod to ensure the objectives get completed. However, when the 2min swarm happens before the pod is operational, and bugs are crawling through the walls, I think it makes it way more hectic and fun. I kind of wish bugs would do that all the time, or at least let a handful do so to not nerf bunkers, but make them more fun, because bunkers do get boring. But why would you not use a bunker when it’s the best option on Salvage?

Bunky boi

Well, the game definitely is a moment shooter for me, scout and engi with some specific builds and gunner & driller can always have dash. If you stop you are dead

I remember when Oppressors were created because most of the community was cheesing with bunker tactics. Just like you said very situational but I can't remember the last time I used it, just not fun. RnS

I'm a driller main, I have drills, im not going to not drill.

any tips for movement on controller?

'They're boring.' My sentiment exactly.

I hardly ever use bunkers, but they are effective if done right. I used one on stage 3 of an EDD a long time ago because the team was low on ammo and had no nitra, and funneling the glyphids into one area made that remaining ammo go a lot further. I agree that it's not a particularly "fun" way to play DRG, but I will consent to bunkering in certain situations. I have bunkered out of desperation vs. oppressive amounts of mactera a time or two and had success with that as well. People saying that bunkering is always bad and to never do it are definitely wrong though. Just think of it as a tool at your disposal for certain niche circumstances when it may well be the best way for you and your team to survive and complete the mission.

Good against a mactara swarm that’s about it.

You know, instead of using bunkers, how about we promote the average driller to be a better "landscaper". I'm serious btw. A driller can clear obstacles and level what could very well otherwise be a perfectly nice arena to fight against a swarm. A big pillar in the middle of the area? Multiple weird rocks are making the place unleveled? A big coral formation blocks line of sight? A massive crystal is creating a roadblock on the floor? There is a vertical wall that is a pain in the ass to go around? A weird natural formation makes the space too cramped? Pullout the drills and clear the area. Simple as. :) Make ramps so other players can easily get to places. Make tunnels to connect areas in useful ways. If you need to hold objectives in Hack-C or Blackbox events, then just make sure the area is leveled, and you have enough room to defend the bloody thing. Hell if the thing you need to defend landed on an incline, then level the are from the middle and up, and ask the engi to make platforms to extend the are downwards. Remember: the things that most kill players isn't just the bug or gravity. It's also the terrain. And if you are a driller, you can shape it to increase the odds of your team surviving. In lower haz levels this might be too much work, but in haz 4 and haz 5, the little issues that your team finds in the terrain, will eventually add up to a potential mission failure. PS: for gods sake when you find Compacted Dirt tunnels, don't just make a straight line to the other side. Use the drills to W I D E N the entrance, and make sure you make a ramp connecting the two parts of the tunnel. I've seen people getting stuck on the tunnel on high haz level when they were running for the drop pod.

I'm somewhere in between casual and try hard, I certainly prefer to dick around and have fun, but damn if I don't like to sweat playing drg. I've never ever understood the... faux conflict between the two groups. And I call it faux because who actually cares at the end of the day. It annoys me when I hear any player complaining about how another PLAYER like to PLAY. I'm totally onboard with the idea of "it's a single player game, play how you like!". But I fucking loathe when people use that as an excuse to poo poo try hards, in this game with a high skill ceiling. This didn't have anything to do with bunkers, but something said near the end. Know that I read lobby descriptions, and I do respect when people explicitly mark their lobbies with a high skill demand. It's player respect. It's just damn respect in general. R&S dwarfs, DRG rewards their most skilled employees and that's the way it damn should be.

DEFINITELY a movement shooter. Bunkers are another reason scout mains dislike drillers

I don't think bunker is boring, I think using bunker every single time gets boring after a while. It takes most of the randomness and choices out of the game, which makes bunker feel the same every time. Like you said, you enjoy the combat, but what if every single time the swarm spawned exactly the same amount, types and positions of enemies, then it would become boring after a while.

Great video! I agree on that strength thing. Which is a shame because I like the idea of being creative with the terrain modification being impactfull in the combat (I know there are other non-bunkie ways to use it but none quite that expansive to my knowledge.) It makes me wish they added an enemy or enemy behavior to balance the tactic a bit.Though I don't know how to do that without either not making a difference or making bunkies irrelevent. This new mold phenomenon in season 3 might actualy good for this! If it grows slowly over time, maybe targeting moddified terrain (It can sense vibrations or changes in the rock or something.) and grows from a point in the level towards it. Then it could make it so a bunkie is something you have to evacuate eventually because the ground starts to damage you. Another idea might be an enemy that can modify terrain. like one that can dig driller-like tunnels. In which case, if they're telegraphed by cracks in the walls they'd probably need to have alot of health for coilgun gunners to not just delete them. I'm thinking an enemy that doesn't do much once it gets to you, it just opens the hole for others, so giving it alot of health should be no problem. Maybe one that causes cave-ins. Events that cause damaging rubble to drop from the sealing and randomly change the geography of the floor in a small area. What if the enemy can generate terrain. It will start walling up enterances or any suffciantly small opening or valley in the level once aggroed. If you're not fast enough it will seal you in and bugs will start spwning around you. (At least I think thats how spawns work.) It would build slowly and from range a ways away from where it's walling up. So someone would have to exit to go and deal with it. It could also target bits of open floor and make movement obstructing mounds, so that it can do more in pure-combat. Or maybe just buff the bulk detenator so that the blast goes farther if a tunnel is particularily thin (justified by blast pressure). None of these ideas are mutualy exlcusive and it woud be interesting to see different combos interact. Ramble over. I'd also like to say I apreciate your "it's fun to be good at games" talk. I think there's this Idea that people who like playing well in games in general are all "Sweatlords" who don't know the meaning of the word fun. When in reality it's just often more fun to really engage with the game and its mechanics rather than just kind of let it wash over you. Using cheese tactics in various games can be fun for a bit, but it usualy doesn't stay fun in the same way really sinking your teeth into the mechanics does!